News on visa detentions

[Butterfly]

I have heard of an expensive visa agent run that actually updated the computer records when your passport was leaving and returning to Thailand. Anyone else has used this service ? It was more expensive than the usual run. Btw guys, how much were you paying for each run ? going rate was 1000 bath, correct ?

[DaveYo]

kenkannif, I think the answer to your question to 24 is THAT IS HOW THEY SET YOU UP.   If the dough is not right, or if they have a problem themselves, or for what ever reason that they have at that particular time, they take care of themselves first, and have their back ups to get the fake stamps thinking you would not know the difference or be made aware of it.  This is easy to do, and viola!  

These people will never ever tell you that they gave you a fake stamp, much less ever tell you whether or not you are recorded back in.  Maybe on that particular day Immigrations was doing a check at the border examining passports or people etc, or making arrests, one never knows.

It is up to you to ever find that out.  So how do you do that without Immigrations knowing this on the side to see such records as they have in their computers so that you can be assured if such stamp is legal and has you recorded back in without getting into trouble yourself as you do the double checking yourself for some peace of mind and safety.  And also these people know you are screwed big time because of them knowing the penalty and the law.  If you do somehow and do find out or know you just received a fake stamp, how do you get rid of it from your passport, as you make a desperate attempt to get the legal one and get such recorded legally into the immigrations computer.

Sure you can yourself attempt to do the leaving out again, and coming back in the right way, but the problem is you still have that faulty stamp which sticks out like a very sore thumb.

All it takes is just one faulty stamp to cause you a major, major headache and a super legal problem.

And 24 hours is right.  How do you explain to Immigrations that the legal stamp does in fact show you are officially recorded out, but nothing officially recorded back in, as you attempt to then leave the Country, and there you are in person standing right smack in front of them like a foolish dumbsh****t  and still in THAILAND!   Viola! and bingo they got you cold turkey.

:blues:  ???

[DaveYo]

To add on to subject - now even if you got a new passport, and you went to immigrations yes, they show you have left the country, and when they ask you why then isn't it showing that you came back in and you stand here in front of us?

So what kind of answer do you give to Immigrations that sounds reasonable enough?  They see now you got a new Passport, showing no stamps etc.

Ahhhhhhh, like I said major, major headache.

:blues: ???   So anybody got an answer for that , do say it here so those who do have this problem can have an answer worth mentioning to Immigrations when confronted in person with such question.

[Axel]

Dave, I saw your mail from this morning just now. Yes, he looked mainly at the computer. The TM-form is usually clipped to the page where your last entry is obviously to manually find it in the PP. I believe and saw it written somewhere the last entry is the one on the screen as well. So if the chop in the PP and the entry on the screen matches, bingo here is your departure-chop.

"now you got a new Passport, showing no stamps etc." does not work. You left your passport in your shirt in the washing machine and got it replaced by the embassy. With the new one you have to go to immigration. They check the last record they have for entry, if you overstayed might accept your paying a fine and give you a new chop so you can leave.

From whatever I hear and the talks rumoured going on suggest wait til next week or even after APEC-meeting.

[pschef]

Daveyo,

you make many good points. However you make many mistakes in your posts. Sorry what do you mean, this visa or stamp sticks out like a sore thumb? How do we know which one sticks out like as you say? I would love to know.

My visa agent told me this, and I quote

(All I can say is that your stamp is real from a bone fide official at the Sadao border. I say there is no need to worry.

There is no proof in the passport that you didn't go to the border yourself.   If you say you didn't go and had someone do it for you - you are admitting

That you broke the law. I think this is genuine truth, JIng JIng. I have stamps in my passport done by my Thai company, yes in BKK, believe me I can put big people in <deleted> if need be. I have many mates US guys and UK guys and Thais with the same stamps. Lets see who gets jail time, I have a work permit at the same time. I got a Non B in Singapore, I never went near the Thai embassy. I did have a nice coffee next door, sorry just had to chase a big Tokhair out of my house. come on Daveyo, you must have more better things to do than scare us guys in Thailand

:cool:

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

I am so amazed at the confusion of whether or not the agencies have done their jobs properly in avoiding all possibilities of whether your legal or not. Additionally would washing the passport and replacement even help. What an unfortunately uncomfortable way to live full time in Thailand. I guess I believing never letting someone else handle my pass port has been to my favor. What is so hard about taking the trip to the border yourselves? Why would anyone ever do otherwise? After the deed is done, I understand your concern. Of course the penalties seem absurd, really their tourist trade is going to be highly damaged. Why would anyone out of the country now ever come back, minus those with Thai wives, simply find another country to vacation in? If one vacations in Thailand again with a bad stamp, that vacation maybe 1 to 10 in jail. So, all you who need not return, simply do not return. Those of you stuck with no way out, find a way out, maybe make it over the border and into your countries Embassy for protection outside Thailand. Maybe even get a trip home, some way, once our their borders. If I were going to live in Thailand, I would try first to meet their standards and not be troubled with border runs all the time. If you cannot meet their standards, there are 100s of countries with much lower standards of staying and much more to offer you in economical living, including lots of beautiful women, try Costa Rica. I am American and can enter the Bahamas with just a drivers license, same to Santo Damingo in the Dominican Republic, if you like ladies with olive skin and cheap living, well DR does not care how long you stay, over stays are welcomed, even favored. Jail!! Please how does that help anyone's reputation to tourist or the economy. Last I heard it is expensive to keep people incarcerated. I am trying to figure the sanity of what Thailand is doing, but all I can figure is a great hate for Western people. Kind of like we did to the blacks here in American for years, I guess you all are an unwanted minority.

Bud

[dropout]

I guess I have to take credit for scooping the Nation and the Post regarding the westerners who were recently arrested in Aranya Prathet.  See my posts dated 9/22. Must have been the same guys I saw handcuffed in the back of the police pick up truck.  I can certainly give eyewitness confirmation of this story.

[toad]

Seems to be a lot of scared people out there. I hope this information is helpful.

I’ve been in and out of the Country 3 times in the last 3 weeks, and have a lot of Thailand stamps, yet no one has checked anything except my latest stamp at any time.

I know someone who has B29 in their passport from May, who went later to one of the minor boarder crossings where the passport was thoroughly scrutinized and photocopied. He got through and back OK. He has since left the country from an airport dressed in shirt and tie, with no problems, but it was a very scary experience waiting in the queue, not knowing if the visa was going to be noticed or not, and knowing that since it had been photocopied, they may have noticed the stamp susequent to his border crossing and tagged the passport. After all the scares the authorities are dishing, that person has decided NOT to come back.

However from these experiences I would say to all you sweating people out there. They are obviously not being as vigilant as you think, and as long as you dress in a businesslike manner and go through a major border, such as an airport or train border crossing, chances are you will be alright.

I would also hazard a guess to say they have perhaps opened a can of worms that will have more repercussions on themselves than they thought, and may be quietly trying to sweep it back under the carpet.

Does anyone have any accurate figures about how many people have been arrested? Reports are quite contradictory.

The other thing I notice, is that these stories are not being reported in the Thai (English language ) media, and barely in any overseas media. How accurate are the reports that have come from overseas? Where did they get their information?

The questions we need to ask is: If the local media are not reporting it – why? Is it because someone has gagged the media? Or because it’s not happening? If indeed it is really happening, and the Thai newspapers have been gagged, isn’t up to each and everyone of us to make sure the International media know what is going on?

[dropout]

toad,

You should read the posts on the board before posting and suggesting this crack down might be a figment of people's imagination.  I witnessed people going to jail for this just the other day, posted about it and this very incident was reported in both the Nation and the Post today.  Its naieve to think that just because you got back and forth in the past without a problem that its always going to be OK.  This crackdown is clearly going to become more intense as the days and weeks go by not less.  I've had my own passport scrutinized intensely. It had nothing to do with clothes I was wearing. Luckily, I don't have dodgy stamps. The immigration authorities will only become more organized and get more information about dodgy stamps, the service and the people that used them.  Encouraging people to think that just because they dress up in a suit and tie to enter and leave the country, everything will be ok is rather irresponsible. Wishful thinking will not change the situation.

[pschef]

I must disagree with the last post, The Nation is most definitely reporting these arrests. According to Thaivisa.com

5 farrangs and 12 bangaladesh arrested yesterday. apparently the farrangs had used Visa agents, what even after all the news about this subject. Thats the crime, these agents should be shut down arrested. WHY, because most of them are Thai. They are still operating openly, please Mr. PM wake up. Or Mr. Immigration officer, Or Mr. Police man, stop them at source.

[DaveYo]

Ok guys, I happen to know some high ups in the News Division over here in Chicago.  I will contact him tomorrow and see if what they can do to put pressure and start reporting about Thailand's activities concerning to the foreigners.

If this does get out, I hope the Bush of the bush, see's this news before he decides to trot to Thailand.  Maybe he might himself get a faulty stamp on his passport.  (Wishful thinking) but I wonder if he would be facing the 10 pipe long ones.

So let her roll, and soon we will have camera time.!!!  And perhaps this will be in English papers.

:blues:  

PS also if any of you farangs know someone in the news department regardless, spill the beans and yip like heck to get their attention.  We need this on the real bona-fide news.

[DaveYo]

Oh and if this works, this might save those foreigners their butts, and maybe they get to go home but I don't think they will ever return because if some deal is going to be agreed upon, they get the persona non grata status as exchange of charges being dropped and no jail time and freedom to get home ASAP.

:blues:

[twentyfourhoursx7]

Toad

My induction to Chonburi jail was to line up for a search. The jail guards are Thai Commandoes during the body search a young Thai guy was found with a cigarette lighter, he was pulled out of the line and kicked and punched for about 2 minutes by 5 Thai Commandoes. When I was asked to show all, their was no hesitation on my part I couldn’t drop my pants fast enough.

It would be one #### of a bet you are expecting people to take.

[toad]

My last posting was meant to be helpful, giving real information about one persons experiences, to try to help others in the same situation.

My friend had already had his passport copied on all pages, so losing it wasn’t an option because he would have had to take the new passport in to immigration to get the last visa noted. As immigration had a copy of the stamps in his old passport, there would have been no point.

His only options were to overstay (and risk even further complications) or leave the country and hope the stamps were not noticed.

He chose, after making money available to his friends for bail, to leave the country. Knowing he had a B29 stamp made it worse, and had he had information about others successfully leaving the country with this stamp, would have been some comfort.

I am not encouraging anyone to do anything. Each individual has to make their own choice, however information of real events from others is going to help them make that choice.

[Roger13]

I complained to BBC World

- in a Factual Error Report

- from their Website.

Factual Error by Ommission I called it.

This is their Reply:

"Hello and thank you for your email.

We're sorry that you're disappointed not to have seen coverage of the

story on BBC World.  The news editors have an enormous choice of stories

worthy of inclusion every day and make difficult decisions about what

can be included in the limited time available to them.  We can assure

you that there is no external interference in those decisions, which are

made on editorial judgements alone.

Thank your for taking the time to write to us, and for watching BBC

World.

Regards,

Mario Giannini

BBC World"

25th September

"BBC World"

Maybe if we all sent an e-mail to this address

they might learn that it IS a matter of INTEREST !!

[Roger13]

My reply to Auntie Beeb...

(I am sure some of you could do MUCH better !!)

*********

[email protected]

Dear BBC World

I think this story has wide Interest

and wide repurcussions.

Britons have been arrested in Thailand

for using Agents to extend their Visas

- a practise condoned (and even suggested)

by the Police for MANY years.

Now some have been arrested and could face a TEN year

Prison Sentance in the "Bangkok Hilton"

They might be guilty of ignorance or being naive

- But - TEN years?

AND the Local British Embassy has issued a Travel Warning

containing Gross Errors that could put more Travellers at Risk.

The errors have been drawn to thier attention

but we have not seen / received any good response.

Please look at this website:

http://forum.thaivisa.com/cgi-bin/ikonboar...i?s=;act=SF;f=1

George Bush is due in Bangkok next month ....

Roger

[ovenman]

I am an American citizen and will be leaving the kingdom in a few days for a trip to India.  My passport of chock-full of (legal) Thai entry/exit stamps.  It will be interesting to see if the older stamps receive any scrutiny from outbound immigrations.

And to answer my own question... I departed from Chiang Mai airport this morning.  The outbound immigrations officer did not even glance at any passport stamps other than my current one.

[dropout]

toad,

your last post was much more realistic than your first.  it painted an accurate picture of the dilemma many guys face because they have used dodgy visa services in the past.  your initial post indicated your opinion that the immigration dept was not being that vigilant, that maybe none of this crackdown was really happening, etc., and implied that it was ok to chance it by just crossing the border even with dodgy stamps. thanks for clarifying your views and the particular circumstances that made it uselss for your friend to obtain a new passport.

[Whiplash]

I can now relax..

My visa worries are now over.

I lost my passport and got a new one, took a chance that my last stamp was ok and that I was her legally..  lucky for me, it was!   No BKK Hilton for me..

If it wasnt,  I would gladly have paid the maximum overstay fine of 20000 Baht and hope I wasn't blacklisted.

But even that would have been better than going to Thai jail even for the shortest of time..

Just took the new one to the Imm. Off. in BKK together with the police report and they just checked the computer and gave me a new stamp.

In a little while I am going to have it extended legally..

[Rambutan]

Congratulations Whiplash!

How long did it take at immigration? I have to go there next week as well.

[Rambutan]

Congratulations Whiplash!

How long did it take at immigration? I have to go there next week as well.

Any questions asked?

[Whiplash]

It took about 30-40 minutes to process everything.

No, not even a suspicious glance at me..  

[silver]

Can we cut to the chase.Thousands of us have done said trips without accompanying our passports . Thats life we are not criminals or terrorists but will take the fall like all good patsies.Can someone please present a list of B.... NUMBERS

that are arrestable so at least we can get a thermos and packed lunch together for the inevitable arrest

Papillon

[silver]

Guys chancing it is not an option..whoes in the know on the dreaded know know stamps to have and have not.I've got two days to decide.

[pschef]

Can we cut to the chase.Thousands of us have done said trips without accompanying our passports . Thats life we are not criminals or terrorists but will take the fall like all good patsies.Can someone please present a list of B.... NUMBERS

that are arrestable so at least we can get a thermos and packed lunch together for the inevitable arrest

Papillon

Yes I'm still waiting for DaveYo to tell which stamps stick out like a sore thumb? I have one friend American, he & wife went to Mae sai yesterday without much hassle. Just the normal visa run, come on guys lets have the full story. 5 Farrang arrested along with 12 Bangladeshi, sorry the police man was just waiting for us? What a pile of BS. Tourists with visa extensions and what ever else, go back to jail and don't pickup 200 Baht. Give me a break you scare mongers, I notice we have no older members  on this subject.  Just wait until the APEC is over, maybe we can see the full story?

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

I believe much of this is because of the up coming October, APEC. Most likely our own Western leaders told the Thailand Government to tighten up their borders. It is so clear, the United States has a lot of influence on Thailand, we have either a written or unwritten agreement to protect their democracy .. excuse me democracy? In war America takes up arms for Thailand, look at their military equipment. The humvies, the tanks, check out the uniform, read the labels in their boots.

So, George W., Blaire and all the rest say tighten the borders up for the APEC. Unfortunately they did not mean throw all of us Westerners in jail for five years, because of a bogus stamp on our passports. What happened to first time offender rights, probation, community service, a small fine, warnings of penalties for using VISA Services? How many Thai's got five years for running the VISA Services, and I do not believe for one minute all this is run by farangs who are now gone. This is a major political blunder, which may well effect Thai tourism for years to come. Wait till the APEC is over, if you can.

Bud

[Dutch Vader]

Hi there!

I have a question, it might be a stupid one, I dunno... Here it comes: these visa runs people are talking about, if done by yourselves, ARE THESE RUNS LEGAL? I mean: isn't it making a "false" use of short time visas, by using the possibility to leave the country and re-entering immediately, with the sole intention to get a "new" short time visa? While the "true" intention is to stay long time in Thailand? Shouldn't one obtain a "long time" visa, instead of making these visaruns over and over again and get many short time visas as a result?

Are the Thai authorities also putting an end to visaruns if carried out by the persons involved in person?

Does anybody know?

[vagabond]

Just to comment about Thais using fake visas in other countries. A Thai was arrested using a fake US visa (from Khao Sand Road) at immigration at at US airport last year. He was tried and given 2 years at a federal prison. I understand he paid 20,000 baht for the visa. No bail.

[MaiChai]

Well a US prison would be miles better than a Thai one. He will get to improve his English, get all the benefits inmates get like education, training, earning money. Hey, he even gets to stay for free; the US government aren't going to charge him for his stay. Saves him doing under the counter work and getting paid a pittence.  Compare this to what a westerner would get in a Thai prison.

[vagabond]

I think it is more like "light years" better than a Thai prison. I was only trying to point out that these agencies at Khao Sand Road are making visas for other countries as well.

I certainly do feel for the people who are facing visa problems. I am hoping that things will quiet down after APEC and a slap on the wrist will be given to all the offenders.

Anybody visiting the offenders in the prison? If so, contact me and I will donate a few books.