coventry Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I hope these threads help someone NOT to lend money. Like you, I wish I hadn't. I think your idea of gold as security is a good one BTW if it is an option. Dave Dave you have the money that they want, you are in the driving seat. If they don't like, or can't meet, your conditions then tell them to go to the 'loan shark'. I admit that I will, and still do, help friends, but I take gold as security, no matter how good a friend they are. My problem started because my wife wanted to help her former employer, who were more than generous to her when she worked for them. She used to do their accounting and knew of their financial status, or so she thought. Unknown to her they had been going to the casino's in Cambodia and were gambling. As you say Dave "I hope these threads help someone". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loverboy44 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 -Dave the dude-Sorry, i edited it, after I saw the post from -mario 2008. -Mario 2008- On my Austrian embassy Website I did not find something useful and sure they will not come up with a lawyer in Isaan! By the way, i have an offer from a Phuket law office (Falang, partly Austrian, German, English managed) I know. But the way up and down to Isaan-Phuket, Flights, Hotel and the daily charge, oh thats not cheap. A session for 100.000.- possible plus! Agree with asking your embassy about a lawyer. Take one from Bangkok. I had one coming to Hua Hin including the travelling costs for 20000 baht checking chanote titles for me at the land office. In my case it was Baumgarten/Brandt in Bangkok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALFREDO Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Thank you all for your Information, I will try to use them. Kind regards Alfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coventry Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Thank you all for your Information, I will try to use them.Kind regards Alfred ALFREDO the English speaking lawyer, in Korat, is named 'Vena Williams', if I'm not mistaken. You may be able to find her in a telephone directory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam125 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 ALFREDO there is a English speaking lawyer in Korat, but I forget her last name and work place. Her first name is Rena and she's married to a farang. To find her I would ask in Isaan Lawyers as I'm sure they would tell you her location, if they're too busy. She has a practice not too far away from them. I did use her myself with regards to my money problem, but felt she wasn't working hard enough. May be she can help you as your case may be different to mine. If I can find her business card I'll get back to you. Good luck. Good idea - also be careful about non Thai citizens claiming to be lawyers they may very well be back in their home countries but not in Thailand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Dude Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Good idea - also be careful about non Thai citizens claiming to be lawyers they may very well be back in their home countries but not in Thailand..... That is a very sensible comment/tip. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coalminer Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 The biggest error was to loan anything to a Thai citizen. A good English speaking lawyer is also "Tiziano" (0810817108). But if you've got already so many replies from lawyers or law firms to "forget the whole thing", my answer would be to try the "debt collectors" option. No bone breaking or doing harm in any form, but publishing their unwill to repat in eery posible form, including flyers at roads and so on. Cheap and effective (sometimes). What I would like to know is: what good is to have the land deeds in your position if you can not repossess the land? I know of a Thai citizen who lend money from another Thai and is now already 1 year no paying the loan back nor the interests. The Thai lender has the land deeds, endorsed with the loan specification. Yet, now after 1 year, she still has not claimed the land repossesion. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALFREDO Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 Thanks -coalminer- where is Tiziano located? What province, city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coventry Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 What I would like to know is: what good is to have the land deeds in your position if you can not repossess the land? If the land owner cannot pay back, the usual thing is that they will sign the land over to you, cancelling the loan. But some don't want to pay back the loan, or sign over the land. As long as you have the land papers the borrower cannot go to a bank, in the future, to borrow against it. Reducing his ability to farm and provide for his family. It's a waiting game, they have no qualms about defaulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coalminer Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 In response to Alfredo, I have seen Tiziano many times in Khorat. Don't know though if he is located in Khorat. What I would like to know is: what good is to have the land deeds in your position if you can not repossess the land? If the land owner cannot pay back, the usual thing is that they will sign the land over to you, cancelling the loan. But some don't want to pay back the loan, or sign over the land. As long as you have the land papers the borrower cannot go to a bank, in the future, to borrow against it. Reducing his ability to farm and provide for his family. It's a waiting game, they have no qualms about defaulting. The girl who I was talking about have given the rice land deeds in collateral for a "heavy" loan to buy a car. She has stopped more than a year ago to pay the loan back, but she and her family are still cultivating rice on the land every year. Wouldn't stand in the shoes of the man who has given them a loan and play the deaf afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder30101 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Honestly how many thais does anyone know that has that kind of money sitting around ? Let it go, you'll feel better the sooner you do, it is a hard lesson for you but one that lots of people dont seem to learn from judging by the many similar posts on tv i read about loaning or giving money out. I always ask myself would I do this back in my home country ? the answer is usually no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coventry Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 She has stopped more than a year ago to pay the loan back, but she and her family are still cultivating rice on the land every year.That's the unfortunate thing in having the defaulters land papers, in that they can still farm the land without your permission. Basically life hasn't changed for them, other than they can't use the land papers to borrow against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 She has stopped more than a year ago to pay the loan back, but she and her family are still cultivating rice on the land every year. The standard practice around my wife’s village is for the lender to have use of the debtors land and keep the profits until the loan is repaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Dude Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 The standard practice around my wife’s village is for the lender to have use of the debtors land and keep the profits until the loan is repaid. Good idea and that would certainly be a very interesting discussion telling them AFTER they have defaulted Sounds dangerous and like a ferang might wake up dead, one morning Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 No farangs involved Dave. It’s purely Thai/Thai deals that have been going on for years. From what I’ve seen the farmers take loans on some of their land. The lender holds the deeds for the land in hock and has sole use of it until the loan is repaid. Where the lender doesn’t have the resources to farm the land, 70/30 profit sharing deals are struck with the person farming the land. Once the loan is repaid the deeds are returned to the land owner and everything is back to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coalminer Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 No farangs involved Dave. It’s purely Thai/Thai deals that have been going on for years. From what I’ve seen the farmers take loans on some of their land. The lender holds the deeds for the land in hock and has sole use of it until the loan is repaid. Where the lender doesn’t have the resources to farm the land, 70/30 profit sharing deals are struck with the person farming the land. Once the loan is repaid the deeds are returned to the land owner and everything is back to normal. So, basicaly, the lender takes an "Usefruct" on the land (togther with the land deed). But in your case, the usefruct is not registrered and is prone to abussion. Registrering a (temporary) usefruct is very easy, cost next to nothing and the cost of registrering the usefruct can be deducted from the loan if you wish. But this is of no help to the OP anymore I guess .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALFREDO Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 In response to Alfredo, I have seen Tiziano many times in Khorat.Don't know though if he is located in Khorat. Thanks coalminer, Korat would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coventry Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) The standard practice around my wife’s village is for the lender to have use of the debtors land and keep the profits until the loan is repaid.If it was legally possible I would be doing that, as it's been nearly 4 years since I was defaulted on. I brought this up with my lawyer, regarding using the land whilst waiting for my repayment, and was told that the land belongs to the people on the title deeds. Until that name is change officially/legally then they still own it, and can farm it. Just because you have the papers, with someone elses name on it, plus they owe you money, doesn't entitle you to just walk on to the land and start farming. If I'm wrong, then please correct me. Edited May 4, 2009 by coventry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Don't shoot the messenger. I’m just passing on what happens in our area between Thais. Whether it’s legal or not doesn’t matter. It seems to work and is an accepted agreement amongst the locals. Notice I mention these are Thai/Thai loans. All I can say to a farang who lends to a Thai and doesn’t do his homework beforehand is, why would you do it? Personally I very rarely do it and only under exceptional circumstances. Can’t help the OP as I’ve only dealt with one lawyer in Khon Kaen area and I wouldn’t recommend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prakhonchai nick Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Don't shoot the messenger. I’m just passing on what happens in our area between Thais. Whether it’s legal or not doesn’t matter. It seems to work and is an accepted agreement amongst the locals. Notice I mention these are Thai/Thai loans. All I can say to a farang who lends to a Thai and doesn’t do his homework beforehand is, why would you do it? Personally I very rarely do it and only under exceptional circumstances. A farang should NEVER lend money directly, but through his wife/girlfriend. But it should nevertheless be known that it is farang money, and if repayment is either not made or late, the farang will become directly involved -something the village Thais dread. My wife and I have just had a default on the piece of land immediately adjoining our garden. We tried to buy the land some years ago, but at 250,000bt it was more than double its worth. Instead we gave a revolving loan out for 100,000bt with the land as a guarantee. 6 weeks ago the woman defaulted with 81,000bt outstanding, but since we had already received 77,000bt in interest payments over the years our net cost was just 4,000bt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee123 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Find a friendly local cop to put some pressure on him. It might take a little tea money but they can really scare the crap out of people if they want to. Are you advising bribery of a police officer for the purpose of imtimidation of a person.???? if so you being a moderator had better review the thaivisa.com forum rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coventry Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Don't shoot the messenger. I’m just passing on what happens in our area between Thais. Whether it’s legal or not doesn’t matter. It seems to work and is an accepted agreement amongst the locals. Notice I mention these are Thai/Thai loans. All I can say to a farang who lends to a Thai and doesn’t do his homework beforehand is, why would you do it? Personally I very rarely do it and only under exceptional circumstances. Can’t help the OP as I’ve only dealt with one lawyer in Khon Kaen area and I wouldn’t recommend him. Sorry if you took me wrong 'Farma'. My loan was between Thais, my wife and the defaulter. The defaulter made out IOU's to my wife and defaulted to my wife. There's a big stink up in our village at the moment due to a Thai defaulting to another Thai, with police and lawyers involved. So it's not just a farang thing and seems a regular occurance all round.And I'm sorry to say that 'Prakonchai Nick' is wrong thinking "the farang will become directly involved" will scare the local shitless. I am involved and they haven't shit yet even with lawyers letters and police intervention. If they haven't got the means to pay you back then there's not a lot one can do about it. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I know an excellent English speaking Lawyer from Surin, but in your situation I would rather pay some police friends to scare the shit out of the person. Best way to get results in the dust bowl is pay the boys in brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Find a friendly local cop to put some pressure on him. It might take a little tea money but they can really scare the crap out of people if they want to. Are you advising bribery of a police officer for the purpose of imtimidation of a person.???? if so you being a moderator had better review the thaivisa.com forum rules. I guess tea money was the wrong word. The proper way to of put it would of been. You should contact a local police officer and offer them some part time work to help with collecting a debt. That is what I meant in my post. It is quite common to hire off duty police officers to assist with such matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Find a friendly local cop to put some pressure on him. It might take a little tea money but they can really scare the crap out of people if they want to. Are you advising bribery of a police officer for the purpose of imtimidation of a person.???? if so you being a moderator had better review the thaivisa.com forum rules. I guess tea money was the wrong word. The proper way to of put it would of been. You should contact a local police officer and offer them some part time work to help with collecting a debt. That is what I meant in my post. It is quite common to hire off duty police officers to assist with such matters. A diplomatic response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALFREDO Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 As I wrote, a police officer is already invoved, but had not intervened until now. My Ex-GF has a new boyfriend since 2 years who is a P. officer. Maybe he come one time and trys it the opposite way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Posts have been deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzasore Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I have heard through the Grape vine that these guys are OK Here in KK check out the Website http://www.lexens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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