3 Thais Killed, 1 Swedish Woman Injured In Shootings Near Khao San Rd

[Oberkommando]

Victims in the south would be included for sure. That's a very good point.

The Nationmaster stats are from 2000, before the Southern conflict escalated.

[mrdome]

I think travelling to Lao or Cambodia or China is probably safer than Thailand at this point.

CAMBODIA???

What's all this about Cambodia being unsafe? Ten plus years ago, for sure it was. As for places where sensible travellers venture (this would exclude Preah Vihear and any still mined areas) the only dodgy times and places are Phnom Penh after dark (plus bag snatching incidents) and Sihanoukville.

When was the last time you read about a tourist getting shot in Cambodia?

[gavin hawaii]

So if we see an incident going on who should we call the Tourist police??

[thurien]

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

Depending on his social and military / governmential etc. status: The weight

of the law might only be feather-light (if felt at all)

[Oberkommando]

According to the Thai news the perp is 44 year old man who already has a criminal record. He was the boyfriend of the street vendor whom he shot and killed, along with her 19 year old son and her boss who tried to intervene. She had another younger son who ran away and survived. So 3 fatalities in all.

The Swedish woman was an innocent bystander.

The gun used was a .38

The shooter escaped and Police are now looking for him. Apparently he went to KSR to get back together with her but she spurned his advances which angered him.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Oberkommando

[Tyke]

So if we see an incident going on who should we call the Tourist police??

I wouldn't bother - they would take forever to arrive, esp in all the traffic. What gets me is that there are always police hanging around the entrance/exits to Khao San road, seemingly ready to pounce on any miscreant at the slightest whim. Not. What are they doing letting this guy get away with murder - isn't it the same old story with the useless Thai police.

[MiG16]

alright everyone, lets not make this a debate on guns and the US, Uk and such laws.

condolences to those affected

[Oberkommando]

So if we see an incident going on who should we call the Tourist police??

I wouldn't bother - they would take forever to arrive, esp in all the traffic. What gets me is that there are always police hanging around the entrance/exits to Khao San road, seemingly ready to pounce on any miscreant at the slightest whim. Not. What are they doing letting this guy get away with murder - isn't it the same old story with the useless Thai police.

There's a Police station at the other end of the street also.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think Thailand is perceived as less dangerous than it actually is. But many people seem to have problem to see things as they are. It either has to be very dangerous or very safe. Let's face it...it's somewhere in between.

That's my feeling as well.

And at the end of the day, high or low murder statistics won't help one bit if you're caught taking a leak at the wrong place during a spontaneous wildebeest stampede, flattened to a pulp by a Michael Moore doing a swan dive from the 30th floor, or a stray bullet from a handgun in a Thai ex lovers' dispute.

Safety thinking and measures can only reduce the statistical likelihood of something going wrong... Stay at home, slip on the soap and your head may hit the water tap at the wrong angle...

When it's time, it's time.

[mrdome]

This happened opposite Burger King, at one of the T-Shirt sellers, just before the corner of Khao San Rd...

I popped out to seven around nine last night and saw alot of police and a crowd gathered.... rumour last night was Thai Husband had shot his wife and kid and tourist was hit in crossfire....

Vary sad.

This is crazy! Seems that every day a tourist is killed or dies in Thailand. Making Thailand safe for foreigners, whether from Thais or from foreign gangsters, has got be a priority for this goverment. When people ask me if it is safe to travel to thailand, i have to say it is not safest place. I think travelling to Lao or Cambodia or China is probably safer than Thailand at this point.

I somehow doubt whether the young British woman who is currently banged up in a Lao jail and threatened with the firing squad on what look like trumped-up drugs charges would agree with that particular statement!

I also doubt whether Mexicans would currently agree with this statement insofar as China is concerned, seeing as they would be banged up for a week even if they showed no signs of H1N1 flu!

None of the examples you quoted have even remotely to do with the safety status in either Laos or China.

[Tango7]

moral to the story(?) if you see Thai people arguing, stay clear.

If it appears they're drunk and there are weapons involved, duck for cover.

However, on the other side of the coin, there are some among us who might be inclined to step in to try and rescue someone being browbeat. pedestrianus emptor.

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

This happened in Pattaya a few years ago, 2 brits pulled a thai off a restarant owner that was getting slapped,, he returned later with a gun and killed 2 of them, as advised elsewhere, keep out of thai arguments, they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

Thais do value life when they are sober and calm. What's frightening are the petty things that can take that calmness away. There are violent people everywhere in the world. Thailand is probably unique in that even a sarcastic remark or a caring criticism can get you killed by people who are not even gangsters by any stretch of the imagination.

I was around Rama 2 two days ago and saw a taxi driver and a van driver having a bit of a barney together but as I drove by, I noticed the taxi driver had a huge machete in his right hand which he was "hiding" down the length of his right leg. In other words, he wasn't pointing it at the other guy or waving it about, but it was there in all it's glory.

What was clear, was the fact that this wasn't a machete for cutting a mango off a tree or cutting down a durian or coconut, this was a mean mother, with jagged edges, and looked more like a foot long ( or longer ) army knife.

The taxi driver didn't just have this item in his car from his last trip to Isan, this was clearly bought and kept as a weapon and it's scary that a little driving argument could lead to his whipping out something the Taliban might use for severing heads.

Basically, whilst not getting into an argument is the best policy, and running away is the second best, what would people do if confronted with that situation? Run or strike out hard and fast before they had time to use it? Personally, I'd walk away fast but not turn my back

...

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tango7

[Geekfreaklover]

Apologies for the generalisation - but I was visitng your fair city as a travelling fan supporting a certain south London football club and the reception was less than welcoming.

Far less welcoming? Is that a reason to seriously claim less safety? I should imagine any city outside London would be less welcoming to a London football supporter. That's not dangerous - it's a way of improving the species.

It actually reads 'far less than welcoming'.

Were you a rounders man?

[sionapiorwerth]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I disagree with that. In fact it is still one of the safest cities in the world. Compare Bangkok with Manila, Rio de Janeiro, Phnom Phen, Los Angeles... only to mention a few

I agree, Bkk is still a safe city compared to many others, if we look at our own back yards first and see the crime rates we have?.

after 17 years in Thaialnd i feel safe - what we forget killings are part of our culture well before the bible was written.

shame the bystander got hit.

[Geekfreaklover]

moral to the story(?) if you see Thai people arguing, stay clear.

If it appears they're drunk and there are weapons involved, duck for cover.

However, on the other side of the coin, there are some among us who might be inclined to step in to try and rescue someone being browbeat. pedestrianus emptor.

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

This happened in Pattaya a few years ago, 2 brits pulled a thai off a restarant owner that was getting slapped,, he returned later with a gun and killed 2 of them, as advised elsewhere, keep out of thai arguments, they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

Thais do value life when they are sober and calm. What's frightening are the petty things that can take that calmness away. There are violent people everywhere in the world. Thailand is probably unique in that even a sarcastic remark or a caring criticism can get you killed by people who are not even gangsters by any stretch of the imagination.

I was around Rama 2 two days ago and saw a taxi driver and a van driver having a bit of a barney together but as I drove by, I noticed the taxi driver had a huge machete in his right hand which he was "hiding" down the length of his right leg. In other words, he wasn't pointing it at the other guy or waving it about, but it was there in all it's glory.

What was clear, was the fact that this wasn't a machete for cutting a mango off a tree or cutting down a durian or coconut, this was a mean mother, with jagged edges, and looked more like a foot long ( or longer ) army knife.

The taxi driver didn't just have this item in his car from his last trip to Isan, this was clearly bought and kept as a weapon and it's scary that a little driving argument could lead to his whipping out something the Taliban might use for severing heads.

Basically, whilst not getting into an argument is the best policy, and running away is the second best, what would people do if confronted with that situation? Run or strike out hard and fast before they had time to use it? Personally, I'd walk away fast but not turn my back

...

Most taxi drivers and mini cab drivers in Europe carry a weapon of some sort under the drivers seat. It makes sense if you are driving around picking up random people with money in the car.

But yes, the best advice I can give anybody from any country is 'never get involved in a boy and girl fight.' This poor girl learnt the hard way.

[elektrified]

Khao San Road is not unlike the other tourist areas - it attracts the scum of the country.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I know several respectable Thais that love going down there to shop, go sightseeing and eat snack foods whenever they are in Bangkok. There is something for everybody.

[Lancelot]

I think Thailand is a bit more dangerous than what is commonly perceived. One reason is that most foreigners don't pick up on "trouble" signals until its way too late.

Seems that the Thais are increasingly armed. Not a good trend...

[Rico3000]

Here is text from the swedish newspaper Aftonbladet (Google Translate):

Swedish shot in Bangkok - three killed

Stockholm. Three Thais were killed unprovoked on a tourist street in Bangkok on Monday.

A young Swedish shots were injured in the drama.

- A woman in the 20s is shot in Bangkok. She cared for in hospitals, but without life threatening injuries, "said Amelie Heinsjö in Swedish Foreign Ministry (UD) press call, to TT.

According to Aftonbladet electronic versions took shots of unloading at the tourist street Khao San Road in Bangkok. Woman of a coincidence to have ended my a quarrel, which was followed by gunfire.

Heinsjö states that the woman's relatives are informed.

- Our Embassy will follow up on this tomorrow (Tuesday) and get in touch with the woman.

The Swede should have made the most of a coincidence. Police in Bangkok for an Expressen that everything started with a quarrel between a married Thai couple on the street. The man should then have made the weapon and started shooting. Three other bystanders, all Thais, were killed.

UD also has received information on casualties.

- According to information, three people died, but we have no information that any of them to be Swedes, says Heinsjö.

-- Aftonbladet.se 2009-05-05

^{_{Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000. In the years 2003 to 2006, 17 of these victims were UK nationals, according to the Foreign & commonwealth Office. These murders include a sexually motivated killing of a young British woman; a Thai police officer executing two backpackers in a crowded street; shootings, throat cuttings and two cases of other Westerners murdering UK nationals; and, more pertinently, several cases of Thai wives or their family members slaying British husbands.}}

^{_{On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.}}

[Rico3000]

Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000. In the years 2003 to 2006, 17 of these victims were UK nationals, according to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office. These murders include a sexually motivated killing of a young British woman; a Thai police officer executing two backpackers in a crowded street; shootings, throat cuttings and two cases of other Westerners murdering UK nationals; and, more pertinently, several cases of Thai wives or their family members slaying British husbands. On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

[caf]

So if you visit http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_...me-total-crimes you'll see that Thailand has slipped to an impressive 20th place. I guess this is possibly because unlike many of the countries in the top 10 laws are not enforced, which means there is less crime here. Why doesn't T.A.T use these figures to get the tourists back?!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms 3rd place in the world for murders with firearms!

Statistics and mathematics are really fascinating subjects:

- According to the site that you refer to, there were 20,032 murders with firearms in Thailand.

- According to the same site, but another page ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita ) there were 0.0800798 murders per 1,000 people in Thailand.

- A quick calculation (20032/0.0800798) leads to the conclusion that (if all murders in Thailand are by firearms) there are ~250,000,000 people in Thailand!

- According to the same site, but yet another page ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders ) there were 5,140 murders in Thailand. As can be seen above 20,032 of these were committed with firearms! (I guess that each victim was shot four times )

I think that one should be very careful with statistics when one does not know their true origin (and otherwise as well ).

/ Priceless

I am not commenting on the figures but your math is wrong

If there are 63 million people in Thailand then .08 per thousand gives 5040 not 250 million.

I doubt if either figure is right. Less than 100 murders per week in the entire kingdom!!

[johnjydee]

moral to the story(?) if you see Thai people arguing, stay clear.

If it appears they're drunk and there are weapons involved, duck for cover.

However, on the other side of the coin, there are some among us who might be inclined to step in to try and rescue someone being browbeat. pedestrianus emptor.

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

This happened in Pattaya a few years ago, 2 brits pulled a thai off a restarant owner that was getting slapped,, he returned later with a gun and killed 2 of them, as advised elsewhere, keep out of thai arguments, they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

Thais do value life when they are sober and calm. What's frightening are the petty things that can take that calmness away. There are violent people everywhere in the world. Thailand is probably unique in that even a sarcastic remark or a caring criticism can get you killed by people who are not even gangsters by any stretch of the imagination.

So true, unfortunately for tourists in Thailand they do not know that.

[Richard4849]

17 murders of UK nationals in Thailand over a four-year period doesn't exactly chill me, considering the fact that over 3 million came here during the same period.

[webfact]

moral to the story(?) if you see Thai people arguing, stay clear.

If it appears they're drunk and there are weapons involved, duck for cover.

However, on the other side of the coin, there are some among us who might be inclined to step in to try and rescue someone being browbeat. pedestrianus emptor.

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

This happened in Pattaya a few years ago, 2 brits pulled a thai off a restarant owner that was getting slapped,, he returned later with a gun and killed 2 of them, as advised elsewhere, keep out of thai arguments, they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

Thais do value life when they are sober and calm. What's frightening are the petty things that can take that calmness away. There are violent people everywhere in the world. Thailand is probably unique in that even a sarcastic remark or a caring criticism can get you killed by people who are not even gangsters by any stretch of the imagination.

So true, unfortunately for tourists in Thailand they do not know that.

neither do tourists in Brazil, specially Rio and Sao Paulo... or in the Philippines.

[Zombienation]

An incident on Sukhumvit just the other day, a farang pissed off a street vendor somehow, don't know if it was justified, but said vendor and his buddies then attacked the farang. He was set upon by about 5 people, kicked, punched and hit with stools and anything else to hand. He managed to break away from the melee...However, as he ran away, every other street vendor attacked him, more stools were smashed to pieces on his body. Somehow he didn't fall down, but kept on running.

Whilst the first vendor might have had some reason, none of the others could've known what the original quarrel was about, it happened too fast. I was there...but for over 150 metres every male street vendor found it necessary to attack the guy......just because.....

Moral...don't piss off a Thai.

Btw, gun ownership is very common here. I've seen plenty.

If you are ever fooled into thinking this is a safe place, prepare yourself for a fall.

RIP the 3 victims of this horrendous shooting incident. A terribly tragic story, those poor people. The guy is obviously a psycho. Removal from the gene pool is definitely a good option for him.

[johnjydee]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I disagree with that. In fact it is still one of the safest cities in the world. Compare Bangkok with Manila, Rio de Janeiro, Phnom Phen, Los Angeles... only to mention a few

I agree, Bkk is still a safe city compared to many others, if we look at our own back yards first and see the crime rates we have?.

after 17 years in Thaialnd i feel safe - what we forget killings are part of our culture well before the bible was written.

shame the bystander got hit.

I have visited all the above quoted places several times ,and yes you have to be careful there but there is still more TOURISTS killed in Thailand every year than any other country ,crime related deaths are only part of the number added to the transport related deaths.

[Priceless]

^{_{Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000. In the years 2003 to 2006, 17 of these victims were UK nationals, according to the Foreign & commonwealth Office. These murders include a sexually motivated killing of a young British woman; a Thai police officer executing two backpackers in a crowded street; shootings, throat cuttings and two cases of other Westerners murdering UK nationals; and, more pertinently, several cases of Thai wives or their family members slaying British husbands.}}

^{_{On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.}}

Let's see now: 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 makes 4 years. 17 Britons killed, i.e. 4.25 per year. Number of Britons that visit Thailand each year: ~800,000. That makes 1 person in ~188,000 meets his/her violent end here every year.

4.25 persons is ~8.5% of the 50 Britons murdered abroad every year. That seems scary, but to really mean anything one would have to take into account things like the demographics of foreign travel. It is quite possible that there is a higher percentage of single males in their 20's or 30's than of families with small children among travellers to Thailand than among those that visit Spain.

All in all: It is very difficult to say anything really meaningful about the relative danger levels between different tourist destinations. (Now Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and so on, that's a different kettle of fish altogether.)

/ Priceless

[tranquillize]

moral to the story(?) if you see Thai people arguing, stay clear.

If it appears they're drunk and there are weapons involved, duck for cover.

However, on the other side of the coin, there are some among us who might be inclined to step in to try and rescue someone being browbeat. pedestrianus emptor.

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

This happened in Pattaya a few years ago, 2 brits pulled a thai off a restarant owner that was getting slapped,, he returned later with a gun and killed 2 of them, as advised elsewhere, keep out of thai arguments, they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

This is a pretty bold statement to make, and an incorrect one at that. Most Thais value life just as much as you or I. This nutjob with a gun is obviously an exception. A tragic story indeed.

Yes they value their own life but take a life far too easy! And the Nut job with the Gun an exception get a life there are plenty gun muders here so how can that be a an exception? Sadly as in this case its the innocent who die or was she not innocent?

Look at the British enbassy web site to get an idea of how many forigners have died here in the last few years....

I said he is an exception from the majority of Thais, not the only exception. It baffles me how some people can be so prejudiced as to group all Thais together as you have. Perhaps you don't actually know any Thai people? It's a sad fact that many foreigners and Thais die prematurely here, i truly hope that this will change soon.

[Priceless]

So if you visit http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_...me-total-crimes you'll see that Thailand has slipped to an impressive 20th place. I guess this is possibly because unlike many of the countries in the top 10 laws are not enforced, which means there is less crime here. Why doesn't T.A.T use these figures to get the tourists back?!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms 3rd place in the world for murders with firearms!

Statistics and mathematics are really fascinating subjects:

- According to the site that you refer to, there were 20,032 murders with firearms in Thailand.

- According to the same site, but another page ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita ) there were 0.0800798 murders per 1,000 people in Thailand.

- A quick calculation (20032/0.0800798) leads to the conclusion that (if all murders in Thailand are by firearms) there are ~250,000,000 people in Thailand!

- According to the same site, but yet another page ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders ) there were 5,140 murders in Thailand. As can be seen above 20,032 of these were committed with firearms! (I guess that each victim was shot four times )

I think that one should be very careful with statistics when one does not know their true origin (and otherwise as well ).

/ Priceless

I am not commenting on the figures but your math is wrong

If there are 63 million people in Thailand then .08 per thousand gives 5040 not 250 million.

I doubt if either figure is right. Less than 100 murders per week in the entire kingdom!!

I know that there are some 63-65 million people in Thailand, but I can do my arithmetic. If there are 20,032 murders with firearms and there are 0.0800798 murders per 1,000 people, then Thailand must have ~250 million people.

What I wanted to point out through my very simple arithmetic, is that at least one of the quoted figures must be wrong (incorrect, faulty, false...). I agree that if you start with the population of ~63 million and the per capita murder rate of 0.08 per thusand, then you get ~5040 murders per year. However, I started with the number of murders with firearms and the murder rate per capita and calculated the population.

I was commenting on the figures, but my math was correct. I obviously did not make myself clear enough, though.

/ Priceless

Edited May 5, 2009 by Priceless

[chrislarsson]

Instead of arguing about how dangerous or safe Thailand is, let's make a test.

How many here are now planning to leave Thailand because it's too dangerous? I bet there are not many.

[Richard4849]

Instead of arguing about how dangerous or safe Thailand is, let's make a test.

How many here are now planning to leave Thailand because it's too dangerous? I bet there are not many.

And there is anyone, I'd like to know where they're planning to move to.

[JatujakShopper]

Firstly you need a tourist industry to damage and the thais have systematically eroded that over the last 12 months so I guess this incident will have no adverse effects.

over the last 12 months? wake up and smell the coffee, it all started when thaksin came to power and he started zoning the entertainment, making check piss, scarring the people who spend the most money in Thailand...... because lets be clear , its not the organized tours that bring money into thailand, they stay in american or french hotels , paid directly in they countries, they eat at the hotel and every other meal is already paid for , the most they spend is maybe the painted umbrella they will bring back from their asian adventure. on the other hand , travellers , party people , younger people , they don't stay in fancy hotels , but they stay generally long time AT THAI OWNED PLACES eat at THAI EATERIES drink THAI BEER , and end up spending more per head ( that goes directly in the thai economy)than a familly of 4 going 1 week at the phuket laguna.

that is where thailand has its head up the but regarding "quality tourists"

I have thought this for years, thanks for putting it into words. I came here as a backpacker first and it was great, 15 years ago, and I dropped plenty of hard earned Yen on the local economy. Gone are the days of awesome parties in the cave at Ryleh Beach, here are the days of Rayavadee resorts fencing out any but the big money tools with reservations. Sad, very.

What a great plan has been made: 'Let's make those patchouli smelling tattooed backpackers that want to come eat barbecue fish, have a mellow hippy-hippy shake on the beach while playing their guitars and checking out Swedish girls feel unwelcome and persecuted, so that we can now bring in quality tourists whose idea of a Thai cultural experience is seeing the hotel menu printed in two languages. How many of these fine folks bother to learn a little Thai from their Lonely Planet phrasebook in order to thank the waiter? I'll take the backpackers, by and large they are more polite than the upper crust, here to have fun and spend next semester's tuition on the local economy.

If I were a young backpacker now Thailand would be way, waaaay down on the list I'm sorry to say. I do really like living here now but as a carefree and affordable place for young people to come and have fun it now completely blows. Might as well go to Florida.

Sorry for that Swedish girl and wish her well. Hey, another great addition to 'the Thai tourist upgrade plan' would to be drive off all those troublesome Scandinavians with their sauna fresh bare skin shamelessly exposed on the kingdom's pristine beaches! LOL

Edited May 5, 2009 by JatujakShopper