A Rumor About The Shangrila And Four Seasons Hotels

[NaiGreg]

Thailand is like Italy in one respect.

The peasant food can be terrific. Even heavenly. Really, does anyone here pay big-baht for Royal Thai cuisine?

Memo to marketing: I am willing to pay 350 baht for an Italian-style meal, but it better be good.

[venturalaw]

A customer just told me that the Shangrila Hotel is,"closed down" and that the Four Seasons Hotal is closed for four months. Is there any truth to this? Scary if true!

The expat's club had its meeting at the Shangri-la this past Saturday. Everything looked fine then.

Many people at the meeting /talk

but "everything looked fine" !!! how many in restaurants bars? how many guests did you see? reception and thye shops busy or completely empty? they are under cost pressure, look at the change in the finger buffet selection

everything fine. i think not.

My post was in response to the Shangri-la being opened or closed. Everything looked fine meant that it was opened, not closed. Understand?

[venturalaw]

I had lunch next to the Executive Chef of the Le Meridian today. He seemed to be having a meeting with his staff about marketing and he did not have anything kind to say about farangs in Chiang Mai or any of the foreign restaurants.

He proclaimed the Holiday Inn Sunday buffet "terrible" and went on to rip apart almost every decent foreign restaurant in Chiang Mai. He also said that they are not going to do any advertising oriented towards farangs, but will target Thais instead, as, "these farangs won't spend any money".

I don't know if this guys food is as good as he made it out to be, but he certainly got me interested in trying the place.

Has anyone eaten there yet? Rassuru? Is it that much better than any other restaurant in the city?

Sounds like a right prick. Dissing his own kind in front of the locals in this manner will only lower their perception of him. Suggest if he doesn't care for farangs eating in his toffy restaurant to eff off somewhere where there ain't any and take his undercooked, undersalted slop with him... somewhere in the arse end of North Korea would be good, meaning anywhere there

Yep, will be tough on the five stars at this time. Tourists coming to CM are generally not in that bracket.

Chefs often tend to be pricks. Don't know why, but so many are complete asses. This one sounds like he fits the mold.

[elektrified]

I was referring to the fact that I think that Shangri-La had their market right before even though @ 169b, lunch may have been a loss leader. The place was always quite busy with both Thai, Asians and foreigners.

I wasn't referring to the companies' choice of location. Aparently the land became part of the Shangri-La's property portfolio about 15 years ago. True?

regards Bojo

I think one or possibly two members are confusing Shangri La with Le Meridian. With regards to Shangri La, I believe it only opened in late 2007 - of course I may be wrong. But I recall going in there on Christmas Eve 2007 and meeting the General Manager, an American guy, who told me that it had just opened that day or the day before. He told me the rate was USD $300/night and I knew it was destined for doom! I guess its possible the land was purchased 15 years before. Hard to imagine the company planned that far in advance.

[Rasseru]

As I mentioned before, he feels like the farangs living here are mostly a waste of time and intends to advertise only in Thai venues. It will be interesting to see if there are enough Thais willing to pay top dollar to make the place a success.

I would imagine that the average well-to-do Farang would not have the same sense of conspicuous consumption as would the average well-to-do Thai relative to eating in an upper scale Farang food restaurant. So I think his plan to direct his advertising dollars towards Thais is a sensible plan.

I do not know whether what you imagine is well-founded, nor do I have any sense of whether or not such a plan would succeed, but I can easily imagine that there are moneyed Thais who would be attracted to an Italian restaurant of high quality that did not have many farang among its clientele.

[Sansai Sam]

I am shocked to see that this post has gone completely off topic...what a surprise!

Anyway I will add to the mess:

Gustavo is an excellent chef..perhaps too good for Chiang Mai. His cooking is superb and he uses the very finest ingredients...and you have to pay for them.

The Sunday brunch at Le Meridien was upstairs andwas 750++. For this you got your choice of appetizers and desserts from a traditional buffet and you could order your main course from the menu...cooked to order..and you could order as many as you could eat! Because of low turn out the upstairs brunch has been cancelled and has shifted back to a more traditional buffet downstairs.

Holiday Inn is an excellent value for money and has a wide range of dishes to please everyone. With the local discount card it's about 425 baht.

Kantary Hills has a great Sunday brunch for only 350.

Four seasons is 750++ with a club card and you can use the pool all day and includes free flowing martinis.

Shangri La brunch is abysmal...enough said.

Dhara Dhevi has a great Sunday brunch at Akaligo thats about 950++ but 50% off with a club card.

[RAZZELL]

I heard a similar rumour about the Le Meridien (or possibly just the restaurant).

I had lunch next to the Executive Chef of the Le Meridian today. He seemed to be having a meeting with his staff about marketing and he did not have anything kind to say about farangs in Chiang Mai or any of the foreign restaurants.

He proclaimed the Holiday Inn Sunday buffet "terrible" and went on to rip apart almost every decent foreign restaurant in Chiang Mai. He also said that they are not going to do any advertising oriented towards farangs, but will target Thais instead, as, "these farangs won't spend any money".

I don't know if this guys food is as good as he made it out to be, but he certainly got me interested in trying the place.

Has anyone eaten there yet? Rassuru? Is it that much better than any other restaurant in the city?

The first rule of any business is "The customer is always right"..even when he isn't

With all due respect, if he was as good as he thinks he is - he wouldn't he be working in an hotel in Chiang Mai would he?

RAZZ

[Sansai Sam]

Surely among the most ignorant comments I've heard on this forum and that's saying alot....

Should we assume by your post that the chef at the Four Seasons in Chiang Rai must not be a top notch chef or he wouldn't be working in Chiang Rai?

The chef at Anantara at the Golden Triangle must be sub par too if he is working in Chiang Saen!

Oh, and those horrible chefs at the likes of Le Coq dor, Le Crystal and Farong Ses....they deserve to be banished to Chiang Mai too!!!

[getgoin]

I am shocked to see that this post has gone completely off topic...what a surprise!

Anyway I will add to the mess:

Gustavo is an excellent chef..perhaps too good for Chiang Mai. His cooking is superb and he uses the very finest ingredients...and you have to pay for them.

The Sunday brunch at Le Meridien was upstairs andwas 750++. For this you got your choice of appetizers and desserts from a traditional buffet and you could order your main course from the menu...cooked to order..and you could order as many as you could eat! Because of low turn out the upstairs brunch has been cancelled and has shifted back to a more traditional buffet downstairs.

Holiday Inn is an excellent value for money and has a wide range of dishes to please everyone. With the local discount card it's about 425 baht.

Kantary Hills has a great Sunday brunch for only 350.

Four seasons is 750++ with a club card and you can use the pool all day and includes free flowing martinis.

Shangri La brunch is abysmal...enough said.

Dhara Dhevi has a great Sunday brunch at Akaligo thats about 950++ but 50% off with a club card.

Why are you surprised?

I agree with you about the Meridian although I don't think that Gustavo is too good for Chiang Mai but maybe ahead of his time. I do not think that Le Meridian's prices are expensive but the majority of folks in Chiang Mai do.

The problem that Le Meridian will have is a loss of identity. You have pick the right concept and stick to it. When you flop around it looks like you're dying people don't like hanging out with a dead or dying fish. They vanish. One of the tell tell signs of a dying property are all kinds of changes that make no sense. Why not promote to foreigners and Thais?

They should have stuck with the buffet from the get go. When business got slow and they were not bringing in the crowds, rather than cutting it off they should have upped the quality and lowered the price.

It's funny that they took almost an extra year to open the place spending millions or maybe billions of Baht trying to figure out how to get the street stalls off the street in front of the property and the minute the buffet has a losing month they close it down.

Then they turn to a ridiculous system where you can get all kinds of small portions of their dishes only one day of the week for a cheaper price than you could eat there regularly. So the rest of the week they see no one. Now it's back to business as usual at Favola and the buffet is back in. I never had a chance to try the buffet the first time. I never had a chance to try the order anything you want for 877 Baht. I'll probably never get to try this go around.

That is the sign of a dead and dying property.

[getgoin]

Surely among the most ignorant comments I've heard on this forum and that's saying alot....

Should we assume by your post that the chef at the Four Seasons in Chiang Rai must not be a top notch chef or he wouldn't be working in Chiang Rai?

The chef at Anantara at the Golden Triangle must be sub par too if he is working in Chiang Saen!

Oh, and those horrible chefs at the likes of Le Coq dor, Le Crystal and Farong Ses....they deserve to be banished to Chiang Mai too!!!

No but chefs that are on a career path don't stay around the suburbs too long.

[bartender100]

Thailand is going full circle,back 25 years, the high end tourists Toxin&co so desired are no longer traveling to Thailand, put out off by the many reasons we already know. The backpackers, gap years and mongers will still go, class me in the later. The high end hotels will suffer badly for a few years to come, i feel for the employees

[RAZZELL]

Surely among the most ignorant comments I've heard on this forum and that's saying alot....

Should we assume by your post that the chef at the Four Seasons in Chiang Rai must not be a top notch chef or he wouldn't be working in Chiang Rai?

The chef at Anantara at the Golden Triangle must be sub par too if he is working in Chiang Saen!

Oh, and those horrible chefs at the likes of Le Coq dor, Le Crystal and Farong Ses....they deserve to be banished to Chiang Mai too!!!

I beg to differ.

Show me some Michelin starred chefs who've worked in an hotel in Chiang Mai and I'll take it back!

RAZZ

[PFV]

Is it the fat Italian guy? (Not sure actually if he was Italian but he looked it. Anyway, the chef of the Italian restaurant at the Meridien I mean?

Well, compared to me he was in pretty good shape. I would describe him more as plump, and he seemed either Italian or Italian American and he did talk a lot about the local Italian restaurants, but had nothing good to say about any of them.

He was not trying to hide what he was saying from the other farangs in the restaurant, but he might not have realized that we were not all tourists. He sure did communicate that he felt that his place was far superior to any other restaurant in town.

The Chef is of Italo-American descent (South American).

I had Sunday brunch at the buffet restaurant only once, invited out by Japanese friends who love the place. You order a main entre, and then help yourself from the buffet for apetizers, salads, desserts, etc.

The buffet was quite good, but, overall, I don't know if I would call it the best Italian or buffet restaurant in Chiang Mai. The price was a tad high, but not excessive for the setting. IMHO, there is a lot more selection at the Holiday Inn Sunday buffet and, at way under 1K baht, a bargain.

I heard, from my Japanese friends that they may be closing the restaurant, and that they will quite probably close the buffet part, leaving only the a-la-carte option.

I used to like the "La Gritta" Sunday buffet a lot, for Italian fare, but the last couple of times I visited, it had gone down hill in terms of selection and quality.

The last really excellent Italian buffet meal I had in Chiang Mai was at Buonissimo at Xmas. It's too bad that Sergio only has them on special holidays.

[caf]

A customer just told me that the Shangrila Hotel is,"closed down" and that the Four Seasons Hotal is closed for four months. Is there any truth to this? Scary if true!

The expat's club had its meeting at the Shangri-la this past Saturday. Everything looked fine then.

Many people at the meeting /talk

but "everything looked fine" !!! how many in restaurants bars? how many guests did you see? reception and thye shops busy or completely empty? they are under cost pressure, look at the change in the finger buffet selection

everything fine. i think not.

My post was in response to the Shangri-la being opened or closed. Everything looked fine meant that it was opened, not closed. Understand?

Yes i understand now. Why didn't you say it was opan notb closed. Not say it was fine.

You should have written " it was open on saturday" saying it was fine gives readers the impression that it has no problems current or potential. Take away the expats and the staff and the two remaining people could i suppose have had a coffee together.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thailand is like Italy in one respect.

The peasant food can be terrific. Even heavenly. Really, does anyone here pay big-baht for Royal Thai cuisine?

Ah.. I completely agree with that! And maybe that was what didn't sit too well with the Meridien restaurant. It was overly arty / nouvelle cuisine, and overly sweet. He might make a great pastry chef, though.

But yes, a lot of the appeal of Italian food is simplicity, things that work. (not talking pasta or pizza here as well, just the meat or fish dishes, stews etc.) I DO enjoy a nouvelle cuisine type touch to food on occasion, but if absolutely everything ends up looking like a Reese's chocolate cup with a blueberry and umbrella on top in the middle of a big plate with a stripe of equally sweet sauce around it, then I think someone has missed the essence of Italian food and is in desperate need of a beefy Italian Mama slapping him with a dough roller.

Edited May 27, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[PlaShadow]

I heard a similar rumour about the Le Meridien (or possibly just the restaurant).

I had lunch next to the Executive Chef of the Le Meridian today. He seemed to be having a meeting with his staff about marketing and he did not have anything kind to say about farangs in Chiang Mai or any of the foreign restaurants.

He proclaimed the Holiday Inn Sunday buffet "terrible" and went on to rip apart almost every decent foreign restaurant in Chiang Mai. He also said that they are not going to do any advertising oriented towards farangs, but will target Thais instead, as, "these farangs won't spend any money".

I don't know if this guys food is as good as he made it out to be, but he certainly got me interested in trying the place.

Has anyone eaten there yet? Rassuru? Is it that much better than any other restaurant in the city?

Yes, ate there once. Absolutely fantastic food, but expensive. The head chef is from Uruguay and has worked all over the world for top star hotels. He may be a grump, but he sure knows his food.

[venturalaw]

My post was in response to the Shangri-la being opened or closed. Everything looked fine meant that it was opened, not closed. Understand?

Yes i understand now. Why didn't you say it was opan notb closed. Not say it was fine.

You should have written " it was open on saturday" saying it was fine gives readers the impression that it has no problems current or potential. Take away the expats and the staff and the two remaining people could i suppose have had a coffee together.

English clearly is not your first language. It is mine. You appear to be the only one expressing confusion regarding what I posted. Let's leave it at that.

[hagler]

Surely among the most ignorant comments I've heard on this forum and that's saying alot....

Should we assume by your post that the chef at the Four Seasons in Chiang Rai must not be a top notch chef or he wouldn't be working in Chiang Rai?

The chef at Anantara at the Golden Triangle must be sub par too if he is working in Chiang Saen!

Oh, and those horrible chefs at the likes of Le Coq dor, Le Crystal and Farong Ses....they deserve to be banished to Chiang Mai too!!!

You are joking arent you? I love Chiang Mai but it is a real culinary backwater in the farang food world. NO decent world class chef in their right mind would even contemplate having ANY establishment in CM on their CV unless it could be shown that it was really short stint with a resounding success and then a quick move on to something more renown. SEA is considered a "backwater" posting for any talented hospitality career professional and that is why you end up some many overated hacks parading around the industry in Thailand pulling the wool over a relatively undereducated culinary clientel. Gawd whats next ?? Gordon Ramsay getting 3 Michelin stars...lol

[Theyreallrubbish]

I was referring to the fact that I think that Shangri-La had their market right before even though @ 169b, lunch may have been a loss leader. The place was always quite busy with both Thai, Asians and foreigners.

I wasn't referring to the companies' choice of location. Aparently the land became part of the Shangri-La's property portfolio about 15 years ago. True?

regards Bojo

I think one or possibly two members are confusing Shangri La with Le Meridian. With regards to Shangri La, I believe it only opened in late 2007 - of course I may be wrong. But I recall going in there on Christmas Eve 2007 and meeting the General Manager, an American guy, who told me that it had just opened that day or the day before. He told me the rate was USD $300/night and I knew it was destined for doom! I guess its possible the land was purchased 15 years before. Hard to imagine the company planned that far in advance.

Some time last year I met the manager of the Shangri-La. He was a very young guy and not American. I think he'd been recently transferred from a hotel in Indonesia.

He told me that their business plan was based on weddings and functions rather than guests per se.

I was kind of skeptical at the time but didn't say anything. (I wanted to ask why then did they built so many rooms!)

I heard as a rumour that they closed one wing and that at one point in February they had exactly one guest

[caf]

My post was in response to the Shangri-la being opened or closed. Everything looked fine meant that it was opened, not closed. Understand?

Yes i understand now. Why didn't you say it was opan notb closed. Not say it was fine.

You should have written " it was open on saturday" saying it was fine gives readers the impression that it has no problems current or potential. Take away the expats and the staff and the two remaining people could i suppose have had a coffee together.

English clearly is not your first language. It is mine. You appear to be the only one expressing confusion regarding what I posted. Let's leave it at that.

Good observation. English is not my first language.

And how many foreign languages do you speak. You really love yourself, don't you.

The fact remains: The Shangri la was "fine " Saturday because there was a meeting there but is not doing well and seems to have lost direction. Try glossing over it if you want - and for what ever reasons - but there are better places for a lunch for example ( and that is not from me but another poster on this thread)

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I hear you can get the Meridien for 3000 baht now.. Shangri La probably too. And STILL they don't fill any rooms. There's just very little market in the high-end in Chiang Mai and if there is then it's in the more boutique type places, not those huge slabs of concrete that are the Meridien and Shangri La.

Compare to that the 'former' top-end hotels and what they cost these days... You can get the Amari Rincome for a little over 1000 baht. (1200 or so). Orchid Hotel a bit below that still. Empress: Same. Porn Ping: Lower still. All these older places aren't going away, when the economy improves they only need to do some very limited refurbishing and they're in a perfect position to kill off the 'new' top-end, the Meridiens, D2s and Shangri Las of this world, especially without a business market of people who want to stay in their regular top-end place with (or for) the points.

I'm actually VERY interested in what the rooms at the Amari Rincome look like these days... 1200 baht, in a hyper trendy area of town.. They're in a killer position, and those 'grande old Thai companies' for sure have the stamina to weather any economic storm.

Edited May 28, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[cm das]

All these older places aren't going away, when the economy improves they only need to do some very limited refurbishing and they're in a perfect position to kill off the 'new' top-end.

This is a good point, in theory, but it involves a major hypothetical. I'm trying to think of any formerly high-end place in Chiang Mai where I've seen true refurbishing, renovation, or anything beyond fixing what's broken & maybe slapping on some new paint. In contrast, the town is littered with hotels and condos that haven't aged very well. Can anybody give an example of a nice place that started to get run-down & then was truly brought back into decent condition? Or is renovation simply not part of the business mindset? Last time I was in the Amari Rincome was about 4 years ago. At that point I would say it was OK for the 1500 or so Baht but decidedly well-worn.

[ChiangMai2]

All these older places aren't going away, when the economy improves they only need to do some very limited refurbishing and they're in a perfect position to kill off the 'new' top-end.

This is a good point, in theory, but it involves a major hypothetical. I'm trying to think of any formerly high-end place in Chiang Mai where I've seen true refurbishing, renovation, or anything beyond fixing what's broken & maybe slapping on some new paint. In contrast, the town is littered with hotels and condos that haven't aged very well. Can anybody give an example of a nice place that started to get run-down & then was truly brought back into decent condition? Or is renovation simply not part of the business mindset? Last time I was in the Amari Rincome was about 4 years ago. At that point I would say it was OK for the 1500 or so Baht but decidedly well-worn.

The Amari rincome executive suites are very good indeed, very new, modern and around 100 square metres. They must of been completely gutted and redone in the last few years. A little pricey at 7k ish but a great room for a family. So there's one example for you

Also bear in mind that the Amari is 40 years old now, if you were there 4 years ago and the room was OK, I'm guessing they must of done some major renovation in the past 36 years prior to your visit, no ?

[cm das]

I'm glad to hear they've done a good job with the suites. But as for the regular room I was in, it was only OK. In 40 years it had certainly gotten maintenance & some updating but it looked like the typical 'just enough' variety. So while the room was satisfactory, it didn't show me anything that would make me see the Amari as a potential challenger to the Shangri La & places like that.

Btw, around the same time (4 years ago) I was in a room at the Imperial Mae Ping & found it much nicer for the same price.

Edited May 28, 2009 by cm das

[Ulysses G.]

Can anybody give an example of a nice place that started to get run-down & then was truly brought back into decent condition? Or is renovation simply not part of the business mindset?

I would think that the D2 would be a pretty good local example of a major renovation of an aging hotel. However, I can't think of another one around here that was that in-depth.

[heybruce]

I hear you can get the Meridien for 3000 baht now.. Shangri La probably too. And STILL they don't fill any rooms. There's just very little market in the high-end in Chiang Mai and if there is then it's in the more boutique type places, not those huge slabs of concrete that are the Meridien and Shangri La.

Compare to that the 'former' top-end hotels and what they cost these days... You can get the Amari Rincome for a little over 1000 baht. (1200 or so). Orchid Hotel a bit below that still. Empress: Same. Porn Ping: Lower still. All these older places aren't going away, when the economy improves they only need to do some very limited refurbishing and they're in a perfect position to kill off the 'new' top-end, the Meridiens, D2s and Shangri Las of this world, especially without a business market of people who want to stay in their regular top-end place with (or for) the points.

I'm actually VERY interested in what the rooms at the Amari Rincome look like these days... 1200 baht, in a hyper trendy area of town.. They're in a killer position, and those 'grande old Thai companies' for sure have the stamina to weather any economic storm.

Of course when you can get a large, clean, comfortable room with hot water, air con, cable TV and a mini-fridge for 500 baht or less at a large number of guest houses, why does anyone stay in a hotel?

[Ulysses G.]

Exactly! I just don't get it.

[gatorhead333]

A customer just told me that the Shangrila Hotel is,"closed down" and that the Four Seasons Hotal is closed for four months. Is there any truth to this? Scary if true!

well i had one of my "5 star" clients stay there friday thru sunday. we had a ball there , maybe 10 kter guest but yes quite open, he stayed on the 11 floor whic has the 5pm to 7:20p.m. free food,free booze,best of all free wine the red was great ,they serve you hot appetises quite tasty and have buffet table full of sandwiches and deserts. we drank and i pigged ,he was aloud to bring 2 guest each nite.

we never ate there just the wine and treats which again were great. he paid 6500 baht a night ,his room had a flat screen t.v a mini suite.

then we dined at the steak house group of 8 everybody loved it,, the Chez marcos the next night which astounded the nebies we took there. again comments like .i got to tell... blah blah about this restaurant they would love this place....

the third nite we ate and drank so much free wine and ate so much food from 5-7:20 p.m. at shangala la we hit the weak ass bars direct ...had no din din.. here is a new post: the girls at the bars are quite ugly now ,the pretty ones beat feet to greener pastures it would seem. it is almost a horror show out there be careful! the horror....!the bar tenderest behind lobby bar at shag-ur-la was a doll though and the girls on 11 floor both of them were dolls too!!!

Edited May 28, 2009 by gatorhead333

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks for the report. The customer who told me that the hotels were closed used to be a newspaper reporter in the UK, so I was somewhat skeptical anyway.

[gatorhead333]

I hear you can get the Meridien for 3000 baht now.. Shangri La probably too. And STILL they don't fill any rooms. There's just very little market in the high-end in Chiang Mai and if there is then it's in the more boutique type places, not those huge slabs of concrete that are the Meridien and Shangri La.

Compare to that the 'former' top-end hotels and what they cost these days... You can get the Amari Rincome for a little over 1000 baht. (1200 or so). Orchid Hotel a bit below that still. Empress: Same. Porn Ping: Lower still. All these older places aren't going away, when the economy improves they only need to do some very limited refurbishing and they're in a perfect position to kill off the 'new' top-end, the Meridiens, D2s and Shangri Las of this world, especially without a business market of people who want to stay in their regular top-end place with (or for) the points.

I'm actually VERY interested in what the rooms at the Amari Rincome look like these days... 1200 baht, in a hyper trendy area of town.. They're in a killer position, and those 'grande old Thai companies' for sure have the stamina to weather any economic storm.

Of course when you can get a large, clean, comfortable room with hot water, air con, cable TV and a mini-fridge for 500 baht or less at a large number of guest houses, why does anyone stay in a hotel?

spudly news flash !! some poeple have money and do not have to stay in peasant quarters.. news flash!!!! concrete slab???.. mr.spud i was in shagrala three days this past weekend ...it is beautiful ,pool grounds like unreal...plus the big bonus it is practically empty.. the rincom is 40 yer old and looks it!!! i was there in 1980 and it was old then...

dude?? a guest house

new flash>>>> not everbody has to use/wants to use the 2 baht toilets of t-land...

how on earth you say shangrala and rincom in same paragraph?? two different animals...

Edited May 28, 2009 by gatorhead333