Thaksin and Pheu Thai Party face constitutional showdown

[Drew Aitch]

Hi Forum

Recently I've been getting a few people (mainly retirees ) asking me to teach them the basics of using a computer. In the past, I've popped around and given help for free to those I know. This seems to have had a knock-on effect and now word of mouth means I'm getting asked by quite a few folks.

Being what you might call a Netentrepreneur, I have quite a bit of free time, especially in the second half of every month, and I actually quite enjoy popping over to people's homes for a couple of hours once in a while as it gives me something to do in my semi-retirement.

But even so, helping mates is one thing, but giving mini tutorials to wealthy expats for free is something quite different! I have no idea what a one-to-one session should be worth, and I don't really need the money to be honest, but on the other hand my time isn't totally valueless. Voluntary work is fine in its place, but to freely give time and support to privileged strangers is perhaps a bit daft.

So has anyone else ever done this kind of Windows training, and if so, what is its worth? A pie and a pint?, a favour in return of some description?, cash reward? (50 Baht/hr, 100, 200?), or maybe get them to practice their new found skills by assisting me with my online publishing?

As always, any advice or ideas most welcome. Oh, and please, no ethical responses on the legalities of doing any kind of paid or voluntary work in Thailand. That's not what this OP is about, so anyone wanting to bark up that tree can start a new thread.

Thanks

Aitch

[Ulysses G.]

How much time does it take to teach most people what they need to know? What salary would make you feel satisfied to be doing what you are doing and not come to resent it? What is your time worth?

I am guessing that most farang teachers get something like 400-500 baht per hour for private lessons these days. Would 500 baht per hour be enough to keep you content and not scare off your potential customers?

[Drew Aitch]

How much time does it take to teach most people what they need to know? What salary would make you feel satisfied to be doing what you are doing and not come to resent it? What is your time worth?

I am guessing that most farang teachers get something like 400-500 baht per hour for private lessons these days. Would 500 baht per hour be enough to keep you content and not scare off your potential customers?

Hi Ulysses.

You've only picked up on the money suggestion for some reason, but the opening post was really more about helping out without being taken advantage of. I'm really not wanting to launch a career out of this as i neither have the time nor the inclination to become a full-time educator in any subject.

I used to help poor old folks with their gardens when i lived in the UK for nothing more than a cup of tea and a plate of biscuits, but when asked to do a bit of landscaping for folks with money, i.e. my sister's in-laws, the couple next door etc, i either said sorry I'm too busy, or okay, but it'll cost you a few quid, just so that the skinflints in society didn't take advantage.

So the money suggestion would probably be more of a goodwill gesture rather than an opportunity to rake in a second income or any sort. I like meeting new people outside of bars, and helping folks out. I'm a trained professional in IT, and i enjoy it. Alas, i don't get much opportunity to use my skills these days which is why it's nice to keep my hand in, even if it is in a roundabout sort of way.

I don't know who you are or how old you are Ulysses, but if you're an elderly gentleman or lady who's struggling for a few quid for whatever reason, and would like to learn how to navigate around a computer or Microsoft products with more ease, then send me a private msg. If i think you qualify, i will come over and help train you for free

Aitch

[commons]

Hi Forum

Recently I've been getting a few people (mainly retirees ) asking me to teach them the basics of using a computer. In the past, I've popped around and given help for free to those I know. This seems to have had a knock-on effect and now word of mouth means I'm getting asked by quite a few folks.

Being what you might call a Netentrepreneur, I have quite a bit of free time, especially in the second half of every month, and I actually quite enjoy popping over to people's homes for a couple of hours once in a while as it gives me something to do in my semi-retirement.

But even so, helping mates is one thing, but giving mini tutorials to wealthy expats for free is something quite different! I have no idea what a one-to-one session should be worth, and I don't really need the money to be honest, but on the other hand my time isn't totally valueless. Voluntary work is fine in its place, but to freely give time and support to privileged strangers is perhaps a bit daft.

So has anyone else ever done this kind of Windows training, and if so, what is its worth? A pie and a pint?, a favour in return of some description?, cash reward? (50 Baht/hr, 100, 200?), or maybe get them to practice their new found skills by assisting me with my online publishing?

As always, any advice or ideas most welcome. Oh, and please, no ethical responses on the legalities of doing any kind of paid or voluntary work in Thailand. That's not what this OP is about, so anyone wanting to bark up that tree can start a new thread.

Thanks

Aitch

hi Aitch,

maybe i understand situation as i've been in it b/4.

maybe it'll help if u reflect that there's a difference in offering genuine help --- & otoh, providing service that's valuable. if "genuine help" transforms into eating away ur very own resources... like time, motivation, etc --- u just cannot do it anymore. set lao. if otoh, "service" u provide is of "value" for clients, people, customers --- from my experience, most of them are more than willing to "pay a fee". critical point is... negotiation _b4_ u enter service: that's talking, evaluating amount of time money software hardware & other resources... etc.

u've to reflect on urself --- what u think u offer as "help"/"service"? what does it cost u? & ur relations w ur loved ones?

also...

in many cases... to train elderly people in it/computer/internet/mobile-tech... is definitely a worthy cause. but it's one of the more challenging ones in "ict" area. i set up ict-help desks, i trained staff, wrote the f**g manual & all that.

so... i guess u know very well that we not only talk the "technical services" --- but "soft social" ones as well: that is... for _many_ users of technical "support"..., whether it's by cmc (phone, email, fax, ect) or "in-person"... their "social needs" are as equally important as their technical problems.

let's say u start "helping" some elderly farang, female or male; & u start to drop by --- well, just don't underestimate the social/emotional involvement. imho, it helps a lot, to clarify at beginning... that u offer "technical problem solving" & that has to be "paid" for --- well, if ur service is worth it. one can be friends with clients... & it's super important to be friendly w elderly ppl... --- but, imho, it _helps_ a lot to distinguish between: a) technical support & emotional/social service (well-being)

also... i guess, u shd understand... that these clients actually do _NOT_ understand what u're doing. it maybe u're able to save their complete ict-setup from permanent meltdown in just 30min --- so what is that worth? maybe they expect u to sweat for ab 12hrs... fumbling w screws & wires for show... so they "see"... "aah yes... that's effort! that's committment! he's a real help!"

i stopped training. i've been doing it for too many years. if people need my help in technical emergency or general maintenance or let's say some "advice"... i'll "help", i offer "my service". quite often, people are either "not wealthy" or they're really don't know where to find a solution --- these clients go w minimal fees; like for petrol & some food, etc. otoh, sometimes there are people who _are_ wealthy... so, imho, there's no prob to charge these clients -

if:

a) ur service is worth it

u come to an agreement in _ADVANCE_!!!

ok?

hope it'll help na :-)

& if u can... keep on doing it

[lioness]

I think you should ask for something, it's your time and expertise and undoubtedly your vehicle & fuel costs to get to the homes.

In Australia a lot of this type of thing is done for cartons ( of Beer ) if you don't drink beer maybe a bottle of what you do drink.

If you prefer the money, I personally think 500 is a bit steep, but it may be ok for some people.

My other thought was that if you helped me I would automatically offer you something as I would not expect ( or accept ) anything for nothing.

[Ulysses G.]

I am elderly enough, but I can do most of what I want with a computer.

I was just thinking that it would not take that long just to learn the basics and that 500 baht per hour seems like a fair salary to me, and is not out of line from what other people are charging for "courses" that would last much longer. If you would feel good about it, I would not think that most farangs would have a problem paying it.

I am thinking of an amount that would make you feel that your time was worthwhile when you recieved it. Maybe you could charge less if you felt someone would have a difficult time paying it.

By the way, thank you for the kind offer!

Edited May 27, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Drew Aitch]

Thanks for the responses guys, it's interesting to read what others think

If professional teachers, be that for language, or anything else come to that, are charging 500 Baht/hr as the going rate in this area, and then i requested the same, then it would mean that there was nothing special about my offer at all. My reasons are a little bit selfish too, because i probably get as much out of watching folks get to grip with the simplicity of using a computer as they do from picking it up. In other words, the only reason i'm even thinking about doing this is because I get a kick out of it too. I suppose you could say that's the right reason though!

Thanks for your lengthy post commons I will only be teaching basics to low intermediate level and only working with SW products. I won't have the old boys (or gals) upgrading RAM, changing sound cards, doing any kind or diagnostics, or any of that jazz. I find it quite amazing at the amount of computer illiteracy in the word, and that's despite every man and his dog now owning at least one machine per household. Or to quote my brothers-in-law; "This <deleted>*king computer will be the death of me" and he's had them in the house for over 10 years now!

I think you should ask for something, it's your time and expertise and undoubtedly your vehicle & fuel costs to get to the homes.

If this was say central London or greater Bkk Lioness, then i would agree with you. But I've seems the world has become incredibly selfish and greedy over the last 20 years, and there really isn't enough of people helping other people just because they can any more. Almost everyone wants paying for their time these days, just so they can satisfy their wants, not their needs! I certainly wouldn't do stuff that put me out of pocket, but sometimes it's just nice to be nice don't you think? But the balance is, as i've said, not to have free-loaders taking advantage. Zipping around central CM really isn't going to make any difference to my monthly expenditure, unless i get fined by the 'No helmet cops' ha ha lol

I am elderly enough, but I can do most of what I want with a computer.

Lol, ok fair comment. Then perhaps you would like to join me and offer your services too should you have time to spare? You'd be surprised how many people don't know how to do simple tasks like upload, download, search for lost files and folders, resize, zip, and send photos to friends back home. Not to mention email, drag and drop, cut, copy and paste, understanding menu bars, toolbars, reading the status bar, backing up, security, and all the other basic stuff that makes working with Windows so much more pleasurable.

Right, that's me done. As you can see by my responses, i've got far too much time on my hands ha ha lol ! Good night!

Aiitch

[sassienie]

Hi Forum

Recently I've been getting a few people (mainly retirees ) asking me to teach them the basics of using a computer. In the past, I've popped around and given help for free to those I know. This seems to have had a knock-on effect and now word of mouth means I'm getting asked by quite a few folks.

Being what you might call a Netentrepreneur, I have quite a bit of free time, especially in the second half of every month, and I actually quite enjoy popping over to people's homes for a couple of hours once in a while as it gives me something to do in my semi-retirement.

But even so, helping mates is one thing, but giving mini tutorials to wealthy expats for free is something quite different! I have no idea what a one-to-one session should be worth, and I don't really need the money to be honest, but on the other hand my time isn't totally valueless. Voluntary work is fine in its place, but to freely give time and support to privileged strangers is perhaps a bit daft.

So has anyone else ever done this kind of Windows training, and if so, what is its worth? A pie and a pint?, a favour in return of some description?, cash reward? (50 Baht/hr, 100, 200?), or maybe get them to practice their new found skills by assisting me with my online publishing?

As always, any advice or ideas most welcome. Oh, and please, no ethical responses on the legalities of doing any kind of paid or voluntary work in Thailand. That's not what this OP is about, so anyone wanting to bark up that tree can start a new thread.

Thanks

Aitch

Back in England I obtained City and Guilds IT Level 1, Level 2 and level 3 certificates. In other words I am fully qualified to teach IT.

I often get requests from people, Thais and Farangs to help solve their computer problems or train them on the basics.

The reward I get is the end result of my work, that because of something I have done has introduced someone into the world of IT and computers, perhaps enhancing their lives a little.

This does have pay backs where sometimes I have needed help with a problem, such as advice or with a job that I don’t have the knowledge to do myself, plus making new allies in my home city of Chiang Mai.

As you say, it’s not that you are desperate for the money, so if not willing to share your computer experience for the benefit of others with a good heart, or feel you are being taken advantage of, than if asked do you have the time to help a novice set up a computer? best to convey your excuses such as, sorry, too busy at this time or have a flu etc, etc rather than consider this as a financial advantage.

[sassienie]

Actually Drew, if you are not interested in assisting with computer problems, you can tell them to pm me, as it`s something I enjoy doing.

It may help someone with a career and they can pass the knowledge on to others.

Like you I am retired, nice to help younger people and teach them the tricks of the trade from my experiences.

Not after any financial gain, just a little appreciation such as a thank you will do.

Edited May 27, 2009 by sassienie

[cmjantje]

In fact it is very simple. I used to be a professional magician for a few years. Whenever I performed for free (schools, old people houses etc.) they said the show was soso.

If I asked 1.000 old dutch guilders, the show was perfect. Same show, shoot me!

What do you think I choose for? The time of cheap hands are over.

[Blinky Bill]

Thank you does not require a work permit, however, if money is changing hands be a little careful.

[IanForbes]

How much time does it take to teach most people what they need to know? What salary would make you feel satisfied to be doing what you are doing and not come to resent it? What is your time worth?

I am guessing that most farang teachers get something like 400-500 baht per hour for private lessons these days. Would 500 baht per hour be enough to keep you content and not scare off your potential customers?

Hi Ulysses.

You've only picked up on the money suggestion for some reason, but the opening post was really more about helping out without being taken advantage of. I'm really not wanting to launch a career out of this as i neither have the time nor the inclination to become a full-time educator in any subject.

I used to help poor old folks with their gardens when i lived in the UK for nothing more than a cup of tea and a plate of biscuits, but when asked to do a bit of landscaping for folks with money, i.e. my sister's in-laws, the couple next door etc, i either said sorry I'm too busy, or okay, but it'll cost you a few quid, just so that the skinflints in society didn't take advantage.

So the money suggestion would probably be more of a goodwill gesture rather than an opportunity to rake in a second income or any sort. I like meeting new people outside of bars, and helping folks out. I'm a trained professional in IT, and i enjoy it. Alas, i don't get much opportunity to use my skills these days which is why it's nice to keep my hand in, even if it is in a roundabout sort of way.

I don't know who you are or how old you are Ulysses, but if you're an elderly gentleman or lady who's struggling for a few quid for whatever reason, and would like to learn how to navigate around a computer or Microsoft products with more ease, then send me a private msg. If i think you qualify, i will come over and help train you for free

Aitch

You touched on some very real issues with this topic. I'm also considered an expert in my field of fly fishing and BC travel. I spend hours offering free internet advice on where to go and what to see when you get there. I've also written some set information notes just for that purpose so I don't have to keep repeating myself. But, it still takes time. You don't get much free time from a lawyer, a doctor or an accountant before it starts costing you real money. I would often rather give my knowledge away for free than sell it to a magazine who lowball me on what they will pay for a well researched article that could costs me more in travel than I get paid in return.

[Rasseru]

Are there any public or social activities in Chiangmai that you would like to see get more support? Like, I don't know, work of some kind with orphans or helping out at the temple that takes care of abandoned cats or giving Thai students of English a chance to practice English conversation or whatever. If there is, how would you feel if the people you were helping learn about the world of computers and the internet and so on were in turn helping others in one of the activities you would like to get more support? If that would give you pleasure and satisfy you in respect of the issue you have raised here, then why not explain that idea to people who want your help (you could always make exceptions when and as you wanted to, depending on people's capabilities and so forth) and, if effect, make it a condition of your helping them that they help others?

[Jungian]

I gave my grandparents a state of the art $3,000 PC (at the time) 6 years ago before I moved to Thailand. I spent a week showing them how to use it, I mean basic email, logging on to the internet, how to turn it on and off, etc. The only thing my grandfather ever figured out was how to play solitaire. Granted they are in their 90's but highly intelligent, educated people but if I ever had to try to teach them again I might charge $1,000 per hour (dollars mind you not Bhat) just for the frustration!

[Rasseru]

Assuming for the moment that you like my earlier suggestion and decide you want to organise a group of volunteers to help Thai children with their English, I would propose, as a name for the group and as a way of underscoring the good it is doing, 'No Dropped Aitches!'

[H2oDunc]

Thank you does not require a work permit, however, if money is changing hands be a little careful.

Had to be one didn't there! Did you not read the OP ? You know the bit that said he DIDN"T require any moralising about working with out a work permit ?

[Patriciachas]

Voluntary Work,Paid Work = Work Permit

[Ulysses G.]

That's two.

[Dustoff]

Hi there Drew.

Your altruism is healthy and obviously very important to you. I'm with Rassy on the thought that you could do well helping others in established charities or school kids and that could help keep you from being kicked out of Thailand when you get caught doing otherwise.

I also helped out a lot with computers in the States, doing consulting/diagnostics/repair/tutoring and it quickly turned into a very profitable sole proprietorship business. I learned a few valuable lessons on the way and made many lasting friends. When I started charging for my services, I charged roughly half of the going rate for such services on the Island of Maui and, if anything, my number of calls dropped off. A friend then told me that people will value my service only if I do the same and that I should charge what I am worth. I doubled my rate and within six months I was turning work away because I just couldn't keep up and had no desire to hire employees.

The key is to be very, very good at what you do and my firm policy was, "If I can't fix it, you don't pay." I never had to work for free but that is likely because I never give up and I never charged for my learning curve. My biz took off and it was good timing as I had just recently been knocked out (literally) of my flying career for quite some time to come.

BTW, you have been on here long enough to know that providing no information whatsoever in the title about the subject of the thread can be quite annoying to a lot of people who object to having to open it just to find out what it is about. Good thing I enjoyed the subject or I would have swooped down on you like a hawk on a rat!

[Drew Aitch]

BTW, you have been on here long enough to know that providing no information whatsoever in the title about the subject of the thread can be quite annoying to a lot of people who object to having to open it just to find out what it is about. Good thing I enjoyed the subject or I would have swooped down on you like a hawk on a rat!

Ha ha lol Did you not think that it may have been deliberate? Actually, i understand the value of quality visitors, and how one interested party is better than a 1000 virtual tire kickers. I used to have some affiliation with Thaivisa when i launched a new site some years ago. Sure i got plenty of visitors but 94% of them were curious link clickers and had no real interest in my project. However, i thought this particular topic might have been interesting to many due to the expat demographic, so wanted as many forum visitors as possible to poke their nose in and have their say

Charities, and school classrooms is not really up my alley to tell you the truth. I'm happy to pull an individual up to par, and share a bit of banter along the way, but to commit to a fixed amount of time over an agreed duration was not really what i was after when i started the post. I'm sure i could apply to VSO or a similar outfit if i wanted to, but i'm not ready to become an official volunteer in any subject. Still makes an interesting read though, and no one said a thread is for the sole benefit of the original poster.

Thanks for your response Dustoff, and others, it has been apreciated

Aitch

Edited May 28, 2009 by Drew Aitch