I know this is a longshot, but is there any mathematical way of improving my guess at using ณ or ญ at the end of a Thai word? I guess I'm looking for that i before e, except after c rule that helps with so many words in English. My Thai teacher claims there is none, but Thais seem to be more accepting of rote memorization........whereas I'll gladly take a rule that works better than 50% of the time. Words like สำคัญ โบริเวณ โบราณ เบญจมบพิตร อรุณฯ are the ones that I have difficulty with. Any chance of a shortcut or aide to remembering out there?

I know this is a longshot, but is there any mathematical way of improving my guess at using ณ or ญ at the end of a Thai word? I guess I'm looking for that i before e, except after c rule that helps with so many words in English. My Thai teacher claims there is none, but Thais seem to be more accepting of rote memorization........whereas I'll gladly take a rule that works better than 50% of the time. Words like สำคัญ โบริเวณ โบราณ เบญจมบพิตร อรุณฯ are the ones that I have difficulty with. Any chance of a shortcut or aide to remembering out there?

There are a few hints. One principle is that in words of Indic origin, a nasal has the same place of articulation as the following stop consonant, so the following sequences occur:

-ญจ- not -ณจ-

-ญฉ- not -ณฉ-

-ญช- not -ณช-

-ญฌ- not -ณฌ-

-ญญ- when pronounced -n y-.

-ณฐ- not -ญฐ-

-ณฎ- not -ญฎ-

-ณฏ- not -ญฏ-

-ณฑ- not -ญฑ-

-ณฒ- not -ญฒ-

Historically, in Indic words ณ occurs in words instead of น when there is a ร or ษ earlier in the word. When neither of these words occurs earlier in the word, I suggest guessing ญ. If the word does not look Indic, remember that Thai often uses final ญ to indicate that a word is of Mon or Khmer origin, e.g. เจริญ and เหรียญ. (The oe vowel is itself often an indicator of Khmer or Mon origin.)

These rules are not infallible - they come unstuck with คุณ, which I remember because I first came across it in the Sanskrit grammatical term guna (with a dot below the 'n').

RUKI works to choose between ส and ษ, but won't help decide between these and ศ. Only the effects of ร and ก are worth remembering from RUKI. Thus the cluster will be กษ rather than กส or กศ - cognate Pali words have กข. Thus it is not so difficult to remember that [H]lak is spelt ลักษณ์.

I know this is a longshot, but is there any mathematical way of improving my guess at using ณ or ญ at the end of a Thai word? I guess I'm looking for that i before e, except after c rule that helps with so many words in English. My Thai teacher claims there is none, but Thais seem to be more accepting of rote memorization........whereas I'll gladly take a rule that works better than 50% of the time. Words like สำคัญ โบริเวณ โบราณ เบญจมบพิตร อรุณฯ are the ones that I have difficulty with. Any chance of a shortcut or aide to remembering out there?

There are a few hints. One principle is that in words of Indic origin, a nasal has the same place of articulation as the following stop consonant, so the following sequences occur:

-ญจ- not -ณจ-

-ญฉ- not -ณฉ-

-ญช- not -ณช-

-ญฌ- not -ณฌ-

-ญญ- when pronounced -n y-.

-ณฐ- not -ญฐ-

-ณฎ- not -ญฎ-

-ณฏ- not -ญฏ-

-ณฑ- not -ญฑ-

-ณฒ- not -ญฒ-

Historically, in Indic words ณ occurs in words instead of น when there is a ร or ษ earlier in the word. When neither of these words occurs earlier in the word, I suggest guessing ญ. If the word does not look Indic, remember that Thai often uses final ญ to indicate that a word is of Mon or Khmer origin, e.g. เจริญ and เหรียญ. (The oe vowel is itself often an indicator of Khmer or Mon origin.)

These rules are not infallible - they come unstuck with คุณ, which I remember because I first came across it in the Sanskrit grammatical term guna (with a dot below the 'n').

RUKI works to choose between ส and ษ, but won't help decide between these and ศ. Only the effects of ร and ก are worth remembering from RUKI. Thus the cluster will be กษ rather than กส or กศ - cognate Pali words have กข. Thus it is not so difficult to remember that [H]lak is spelt ลักษณ์.

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure it'll help me at my current stage, but I'll keep it filed for the future.