Windows Vs Linux

[endure]

the internet is the moderns worlds gateway to power, control, money, etc. It runs on unix. Understanding unix, then, is important. You dont get to understand unix running microsoft windows. Thats my take on things. As for Ballmer he is saying the same old things he always says.

The Internet runs on whatever operating systems Cisco, Foundry, Brocade and Jupiter run on their big iron routers. The hosts that sit on the internet run a wide variety of operating systems.

[RKASA]

Lots of interresting comments. To many to address. I can say that only 20 months ago I was a windows only user and I installed PClinuxOS2007 and had vary few problems, none more then I have had with windows. I did everything from GUI and it all worked. The repo is all tested and stable, but not bleeding edge which is why I don't use ubuntu and some others.

When 2009 came out lot of problems with updating for some, but that was an optional way and I just did a back up, fired up livecd and installed to my old dir the new os and reloaded the data i.e. 15min no problems.

Networking no problem. XPpro XPhome Linux laptop and linux desktop complete networking all gui set up. Only stop that got me was the XPhome would not share, but it was just a commen error a setting I didn't click in XPhome and that fixed it. The setting up is about the same in both using smb4k as a gui. In fact, I find it easy to find the shares from linux it will scan the network or just enter the IP in search box.

I run the apache server and motion with webcam and motion detection that records if anything moves in the house it also uploads pictures to the web. (when I am not home)

I have a complete copy of the repo on my server and it updates itself weekly. I can add any available software to any linux on the network at 100mbps download. Even if ToT were down I can get software.

I use MSN messager because my mom is on hotmail and uses windows, but mine is the linux version. Why don't I just use the winbox, because I keep windows offline.

I use wine for ie6 because its a fastest way to see my gateway when I want to, the modem IpStar has poor software it needs IE to work. I could just use a winbox but that would disrupt the game running on it and it would be online again.

My desktop has 8400GS nVidia and it was installed automatic and works great, it then deleted the versions not in use as all of them where there in the livecd.

I had a lexmark all in one that didn't work in linux but does now, to late I replaced the printer with a cannon which works great. The printer install was completely automatic. I just wish my XPpro would let me install it in english but its being a pain. I don't really use it there anyway so I haven't taken the time. I still use the lexmark scanner but only on my winbox.

Every usb device I have from my camera to flash sticks all work and always have. The only time I have a problem is after using them in windows they sometimes won't mount because windows didn't safly remove them like it said it did, plug them back into windows remove again and they start working again. Thats not a Linux problem.

If you what to make an automounting drive the gui is in PCC and it will rewrite fstab for you complete with UUID's and just check the blocks to select the permissions you want made for each partition. You can also make a partition, change the sizes and ntfs is fully supported out of the box so you can use them in windows if you dual boot. The great thing is its not just drive E: its what ever you want where ever you want it mounted and not just the drive but any partition on it can be mounted as you like.

Often in reponse to these things we get business owners that run large networks etc. (and sellers) look you guys can spend your cash they way you want or need, but really the avg user is not you doing what your doing and most could just get by fine with email etc i.e. free that don't need to cost anything.

In our forum the dev's read every post and they may not respond themself (they don't have that kind of time) but do make note of whats going on and changes happen.

The last time I made a post such as this, some from this forum showed up at the PClos forum and flamed and trolled. I ll see you there. We miss ya.

[dave_boo]

Interesting discussion here. Interesting in a way that every time a minority admit to be better than all others.

And that's the truth: Linux and Mac users are just a minority compare to the masses.

It's nice to see that a member of that minority is telling: ' However, stupid users resistant to change is more likely the problem than issues with the operating systems.'!

dave boo@

As I read the post, the stupid users you're talking about are the masses of the Windows users. In that way I've to admit for myself that I'm happy to be one of that stupid user!

Also interestingly in your post is that you didn't name your contra hand but point that he is an MODERATOR.

First at all in this is: Using capital letter in the way you did, shows that you're an egoistic and egocentric person who didn't accept the meaning from differently thinking person. The same is also to see in your other posts in this topic.

If you choose to assume my intentions (which btw, isn't it standard practice to either capitalise or bold face font to emphasis the section you're attempting to point out?), that is your perogative. However, rules are rules. The fact that a moderator has a heavy hand and is extremely (note I didn't capitalise that, but chose to italicise it for emphasis) quick to quelch dissensions to his clearly 'invented' (another way of emphasis) statistics is what I was protesting. I do not always have the answer, but my persona here on the board does not deviate one iota from my real life social interactions. If a person is not (and I know how much y'all hate me using this) acting stupid (yet another emphasis), I have no qualms about manifesting good social graces. Stepping over the line will result in immediate and dispropotinate response.

Secondly, as I read the post of the moderator, regarding the statistic, he clearly wrote to check with UNKNOWN persons or users what they use because from the person you know, every info's are subjective and never counting! Isn't the word Ignorance the one which describes your written words?

Quote from the OP re-enforcing your assumptions of his meaning. Plz, k, thnx.

Did you know what objectivity and subjectivity is meaning?

Statistics are objective. Made up statistics to bolster one's positions are objective. Please reference the topics of the moderator (de-emphasis to not give rise to further claims egoistic and egocentric behaviour) of in question to see his objectivity.

So, you're not an egoistic and egocentric person only, you're a subjective person as well, what is shown with your own words very well!

Everyone is subjective. I believe I strike a good balance of the innate subjectivity that comes from my personal experieces and the objectivity that the world demands. If in doubt, feel free to puruse my posts and read what I've written in the past rather than jumping on a moderator's bandwagon--especially since you have nothing of substance (i.e. objectivity) to add to this discussion.

And it's very interesting to see how you see others who didn't comply with you way: Perhaps the mentally deficient, who possibly through a substandard intelligence level are unable to learn something new.........

You know, your whole post is nothing else as an accusation against a specific person, a moderator on this forum! I really doubt that you know that person in reality same as you're just a fiction in the cyberspace! Reading this your post and others before, shown that you're like a blindfolded horse which is able only to go the way he learned. And as blindfolded horse you are also unable to accept that this world in not about what you like only.

Wow, I've responded to your whole post and going back and reading it again, it's a specific attack on me! The exact same thing that you accuse me of doing to a moderator. On the other hand, you attacked my persona, I called into questions the moderator's actions. I'm sure that a non-mentally deficient person such as you attempt to project yourself as can see the difference.

Mange tack.

Just out of curiousity, does stoffel=reimar or is there another relationship there?

Outlook 2007 springs to mind. Anything equivalent available? That can synchronize with a mobile phone and with an additional easy-to-use software (set-up time less than 5 minutes) synchronizes its database across as many computers as you want? That has integrated e-mail, calendar, CRM functions? Let me know and I'll give it a try!

You might have gotten me on that one.....I don't use Outlook '07 in the setting you're talking about (I haven't even ever looked to see how to use the calendar ), but the wife uses Thunderbird (much to lightweight for what you need) and I use Evolution. It appears that it has Palm device support (and there's apparently work-arounds for WinMobile Phones), not that I've seen any in Thailand, it's simple enough that a bumpkin like I could set it up (actually not that different from a outlook 2k3 setup), has what appears to be a database server that you're talking about. Obviously integrated calendar and email. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to have CRM functions....but than again it doesn't appear that Outlook comes with it standard. It looks like there are CRM clients out there, they just don't integrate as in Windows.

ADempiere -- "completely open and free" <LI>CentraView -- "Built on Apache Tomcat, JBoss, MySQL, Linux (Fedora, RedHat and others) & Windows" <LI>CiviCRM -- "The Open Source Solution for the Civic Sector" <LI>Compiere -- "Open Source ERP and CRM" <LI>Concursive -- "easy to use, easy to deploy open source solution" <LI>Covide - "Covide is an OpenSource project licensed under the GPL" <LI>Cream -- "A free, open-source CRM for media organizations" <LI>Hipergate -- "Open Source CRM and GroupWare" <LI>Openbravo -- "a fully functional, integrated, web-based, open source ERP" (includes CRM) <LI>opentaps -- "a complete open source platform" <LI>openCRX -- "published with an OSI certified BSD-style license" <LI>SugarCRM -- "commercial open source <LI>OpenERP -- "Open Source enterprise management software" (includes CRM) <LI>vtiger -- "honest open source"

[Guest Reimar]

To be clear: I've never told or write that Linux is bad!

Linux is a different OS which needs more interaction based on more intense knowledge than Windows.

As plus wrote: Linux isn't for user's, Linux is for geeks. Also an normal user maybe can use Linux with little problems, I wouldn't doubt that!

But things differes when it comes to problems. Like you install for example Ubuntu on an computer with hardware which isn't recognized by Ubintu. Even if you have an other PC available for to access the Internet and therefore the relevant forum and websites for to get help, that could be a long story. Or you install Ubuntu on an PC without Network connection and need to add that connection later, for un-experienced user's nearly impossible.

The later was test I had done with some customers and not one of them were able to fix that connection and all of that user were long time user with quite a lot knowledge and skills about computer.

That's just some simple and unsuccessful test with Ubuntu Linux. That may differs by other distributions.

One of the huge different in trhe community of Linux and Windows users is, that Linux user's in general have a better knowledge about the system they're using while Win dows user didn't need that extended knowledge. As Raro wrote: Windows works out of the box! Not 100% but better with less problems than Linux.

In praxis, it's much more easy to get help for problems with Windows than to get help for problems with Linux.

And I think that it's time for many to change thems mind and accept that different systems have different problemm, which requires different knowledge for to solve that problems on diffrent ways.

To compare different systems will never an accurate result.

[Crushdepth]

There's no reason for Linux distros to be standardised. We already have a dumbed down operating system for the unwashed masses....it's called Windows!

Ok but wouldn't the world be a better place if Linux(es) was the default OS for the unwashed masses, and Windows was a niche market ? The problem is that the unwashed masses *are* the market. There needs to be some kind of Linux for people with normal (poor) computer literacy because that is 99% of the world.

Windows is going to continue to be flaky and insecure until it has some serious competition to encourage better practices. Linux is not going to be a serious competitor on the desktop until it starts addressing the needs of the ordinary, computer illiterate person and works out of the box.

[RKASA]

"One of the huge different in trhe community of Linux and Windows users is, that Linux user's in general have a better knowledge about the system they're using while Windows user didn't need that extended knowledge. As Raro wrote: Windows works out of the box! Not 100% but better with less problems than Linux."

This is the main goal of PClinuxOS Both Linux and Windows work great in the box, but open a box for install and its the same story.

Buy windows off the rack and install it in a PC that came with no OS or linus os and bang you're in the same spot if you don't know.

In the box is not the same as out of the box. Been there, done that.

"Linux is a different OS which needs more interaction based on more intense knowledge than Windows."

Not true of some distro from livecd if you know how to burn a cd image your good, and burning one from windows is easy right.

"In praxis, it's much more easy to get help for problems with Windows than to get help for problems with Linux."

This is completely untrue, if you go to the distro forums you get lots of free help. Help which is toward the user, just mention you need GUI method which is vary understood today. It says it all.

"As plus wrote: Linux isn't for user's, Linux is for geeks. Also an normal user maybe can use Linux with little problems, I wouldn't doubt that!"

I am guessing you mean that a normal user can't use linux without problems, I maybe misreading that.

No, a up and running system will work fine. just as good as any windows box for a normal user, in fact it protects itself from being trashed by the normal user which is where most MS problems start at.

don't install from anywhere, just use the repo is completely automatic. search, select, apply. no reboot required. and software is updated automaticly not just the OS.

"And I think that it's time for many to change thems mind and accept that different systems have different problemm, which requires different knowledge for to solve that problems on diffrent ways."

True and the best reason for learning Linux I have heard in some time, Thanks.

Its not really a matter of good or bad, but where are we going with tech in the future. 300 years ago most were told you don't need to read, we will tell you what you need to know.

What kind of future do you want?

[raro]

@crushdepth: very well put! and I am not even a computer illiterate but a lazy person that has other hobbies than tweaking around with computers.

Having said that I just booted my laptop with my Ubuntu live CD. Boot time for win7 (including several programs such as yahoo messenger and msn) about 1:43. Boot-up time for Ubuntu: 3 min. fair enough, it boots from CD which is always a bit slower. 1:0 for Windows.

Took me some minutes to figure out how to get the wireless working, but online now. Went to the thaivisa webpage and even though it is the same encryption (ISO-8859-1) it displays with that ugly courier font. I use Firefox in both, Windows and Linux. Any fix for that? 2:0 for Windows.

Next is evolution mail. I set up one of my e-mail addresses and it starts downloading. Get countless warnings "Check Junk Failed". Clicking on it, it says "Pipe to Bogofilter failed, error code: 3". I must admit the windows error messages are usually not much better... 3:0 for Windows

I download 155 messages. Only AFTER they are ALL downloaded they appear in the inbox. In Outlook, they appear as soon as they are downloaded and I can read my e-mails while others are still downloading. I condsider this more time efficient. 4:0 for Windows.

I create a rule that messages from one sender get moved into a specified folder. Under Outlok I can clcik "run this rule now" and it sorts everything inside according to the rule. This is missing in Evolution. Instead I have to mark all messages in the inbox and click "apply filters" in the message menu. 5:0 for Windows

Importing my contacts...seems to be possible but I have to export my contacts into a csv file first. Let's leave this part unresolved an move on to...

Signatures:in Outlook the signature can be linked to the e-mail account. If I change the account I want to send from, the signatre changes also without any further action from me. Moreover, in Outlook I can define different signatures for new mail or replying to a mail. I cannot find any similar function in Evolution. 6:0 for windows.

...your turn guys!

[jackdanielsesq]

Whats the point? Just another flame!

Finally, its all about choice.

BR>Jack

[raro]

Whats the point? Just another flame!

Finally, its all about choice.

BR>Jack

I just tried some basic office work with Ubuntu. All tasks I tried work better under Windows and/or are not available with Ubuntu.

Instead of accusing me of flaming, rather prove your point and show how to make these things work under Linux.

[Guest Reimar]

RKASA@

First at all I like how you answer to an post even if the other part has a different view, experiences or whatsoever. Your answers are fair and even straight in an way human beings should communicate which each other.

Unfortunate many humans are not able to accept that there others out there with different viewpoints and experiences, different knowledge and even an different character. Admitting to be better than others is an behavior and claim the right to abuse those others even not as single human but as a whole group, shows nothing else as a kind degeneration (of the Brain)!

"One of the huge different in trhe community of Linux and Windows users is, that Linux user's in general have a better knowledge about the system they're using while Windows user didn't need that extended knowledge. As Raro wrote: Windows works out of the box! Not 100% but better with less problems than Linux."

This is the main goal of PClinuxOS Both Linux and Windows work great in the box, but open a box for install and its the same story.

Buy windows off the rack and install it in a PC that came with no OS or linus os and bang you're in the same spot if you don't know.

In the box is not the same as out of the box. Been there, done that.

You're right with that: in the box differs from out of the box!

Using Linux in the box, means to start it from an preinstalled CD and run it: it will works most of the time, whitn some limitations but will works.

Windows need to be installed and can't work in the box. Not really right because if you have the knowledge you can alwso run it in the box which I do for some service reasons. But that isn't a kind standard.

"Linux is a different OS which needs more interaction based on more intense knowledge than Windows."

Not true of some distro from livecd if you know how to burn a cd image your good, and burning one from windows is easy right.

In general it's true with some exceptions as in the whole life! Maybe a few of the many Linux distributions didn't need am more intense knowledge for to startup, later in the working process you'll need that knowledge.

"In praxis, it's much more easy to get help for problems with Windows than to get help for problems with Linux."

This is completely untrue, if you go to the distro forums you get lots of free help. Help which is toward the user, just mention you need GUI method which is vary understood today. It says it all.

Not so long time ago I was installing first Fedora and after that Ubuntu and Suse and that distros were not able to connect to an Mailserver running on Red Hat Server with the Mail Server software Kerio Mail Server installed.

Non of the help desks and even one of the forum were able to help with an working solution and I had to give up after a week because of an fixed time frame. Reinstalled Windows and everything just works. That is just one of the few problems which were impossible to be solveed.

"As plus wrote: Linux isn't for user's, Linux is for geeks. Also an normal user maybe can use Linux with little problems, I wouldn't doubt that!"

I am guessing you mean that a normal user can't use linux without problems, I maybe misreading that.

No, a up and running system will work fine. just as good as any windows box for a normal user, in fact it protects itself from being trashed by the normal user which is where most MS problems start at.

don't install from anywhere, just use the repo is completely automatic. search, select, apply. no reboot required. and software is updated automaticly not just the OS.

"And I think that it's time for many to change thems mind and accept that different systems have different problemm, which requires different knowledge for to solve that problems on diffrent ways."

True and the best reason for learning Linux I have heard in some time, Thanks.

Its not really a matter of good or bad, but where are we going with tech in the future. 300 years ago most were told you don't need to read, we will tell you what you need to know.

What kind of future do you want?

Being an IT-Pro for many years, I worked with many different systems and OS's. Believe it or not, but I'm NOT an Windows or even Microsoft friend. There were much better systems in the past and there will be better systems in the future. The reality is that the main system used around the world on Personal Computers, is some Microsoft OS! That differs regarding Communication devices for example. But here we talking from Personal Computer's: PC's! And for me the reality says very clear that I've to work with that systems our customers are using.

Since I'm in the computer business and earn my living from it, what choice I have? So I've to stick with what our customers using. And what is that: Microsoft Software in 98% of OUR customers! This 98% are based on the customer of MY company to be clear!

Anyway, the problem with linux for some reason is that there to many different distros around. Every developer of an Linux distro is "cooking his own soup" and every are slightly different because of it's "ingredients", each "taste" different.

If you're happy with your system, just stick with it like I'm happy with mine and stick with that.

Cheers.

[OxfordWill]

ah, fallacy of majority opinion.

[raro]

Just for the records...a couple of years ago I had to do the start up for a new company. Four desktop computers and laptops in total and one server.

I am generally in favor of the open source idea and asked around several computer companies - and here especially those that advertised their Linux services - and ALL of them got back to me that Linux is somewhat comparable to communism...a brilliant idea but if you want to have something practical go for Windows.

[Plus]

Oh, and it's been months but I can't make my pclinuxos2007 visible to windows laptop on home network, and win laptop doesn't show up on linux samba list either. It's accessible via 192.168... route only. I tried all GUI tools and checked all config files, doesn't work.

As for help - unlike windows where you can just search for answer and it's there, I need to create accounts for linux forums and inquire myself. Replies appears in few hours, sometimes on the next day.

So far there wasn't a single problem that was fixed using that help. Nothing, nada. Altogether I ran up to ten pages of replies but in the end they were all abandoned.

Win help, as i said - search and you can find. No more than five minutes if you can formulate your search correctly.

Linux is for fun, not for convenience.

[RKASA]

"Oh, and it's been months but I can't make my pclinuxos2007 visible to windows laptop on home network, and win laptop doesn't show up on linux samba list either. It's accessible via 192.168... route only. I tried all GUI tools and checked all config files, doesn't work."

Really can't understand how it is.  I ran samba with 2007 and XPpro & Home and now with 2009.  I can say, I don't try and use dhcp in the local network. I give everything an IP and a name then make notes.  Even os's in virtual modes have their own IP's and names and I stay with a one workgroup name everywhere.     smb4k makes it simple.  but it can be done via kde center and commandline works also if you know how.  I don't.   research LMHOST and HOSTS  /windows/system32/drivers/etc   most linux samba problems with a windows share are windows conf. but nobody beleaves it. sorry its not a GUI fix in windows you have to edit the file.  Then make sure that option is clicked in the windows setup.  Then they should see each other by name not just IP.  I am no network GURU I just winged it on my network but thats one of the things I had to do, its been awhile.

My last step in getting help is the forum.  I normally jump to the app's website and read the manual first.  Some apps have a forum as well.  I use windows forum for windows problem, but never have they had to solve my problems with an app.  For that I always had to go to the apps FAQ or forum.  If I did go to the windows forum in my experience in 10 time 7 would result in reinstall as the answer.   In fact it got so bad the last time I used it I started the post with Please don't say reinstall I am just going to uninstall it, which I did.  OK I know I put it back a few months later.  

[Plus]

Some distros had no networking problems, this PClinuxOS does.

I went through several guides and manuals for making Samba work. It doesn't.

Actualy Linux appears but refuses to allow entry to see the shares.

Not a big deal - I can copy files from linux to pc, there's only few meters between them.

[livinthailandos]

since this has more or less become more about linux than windows. I am simply going to add this in on linux in general

1. Linux isn't windows.

2. I agree actually more linux community forums are so broad and spread out its hard to get an actual answer

3. on continuing from point 2 the real problem seems to be that we don't have an actual place or LUG to get together and help one another, posting questions and get answers is fine but doing things and helping one another face to face is much easier in my opinion

4. It would seem linux is general has always been making steps it make take longer but there getting there. Plus as someone pointed out don't blame linux blame manufactors for not giving us some way of using their product with linux.

5. Regardless of the Operating System, they all have strengths, weakness, different structures.

6. If you like me I buy a copy every month of Linux Format at least I can find a few things there, and ever so often they print a special magazine for the distro giving you lots of information on that distro and what you will need to do they even post it in basic terms that most people can understand

[RKASA]

@Plus

It works fine, I am using it, not a problem. have used it in both version 2007 and 2009.  its the same apps as the other distro.

Back in the day I used 3.5 floppy for a sneaker net between my two 98 and 98se PC's.  both were dial up and no local network.

I must say I like this better.

@liveinthailandos

A LUG would be great fun and get me out of the house, but I live out in the sticks and don't even go to town but once a week for mail.    hermit

I surf youtube for linux vids.  Thats how I learned to set up the apache server.  You find a few duds but then once in a while a great little vid.  Then there is the meet the gimp series which teachs photoshop like methods on gimp. It a great series with up to 99 vids already.  Gimp is a vary large program.  Its not a bad place to get lessons.  I learn better watching then reading.

[Plus]

Plus

It works fine

No, it doesn't. On my computer it doesn't.

Are you telling me it does, and those "destination unreachable" errors do not exist?

That's a great way to prove a point that Linux is a troublefree operating system.

[Rawkus]

Plus

It works fine

No, it doesn't. On my computer it doesn't.

Are you telling me it does, and those "destination unreachable" errors do not exist?

That's a great way to prove a point that Linux is a troublefree operating system.

The problem exists between the keyboard and the user's chair.

If you are really incapable of getting a Linux machine connected to the internet then you are better off sticking with Windows and dealing with all the issues that that will entail.

Just relax in the knowledge that if you do manage to connect your Windows box to the internet (and secure it) most of the sites that you visit will be served up by machines running Linux.

[RKASA]

This tread started in response to another which got closed just as I posted there and had nothing to do with which is better or even what works, but whom uses what.  Then it got moved here because it turned south.   

I was not here to prove a point that Linux is a troublefree operating system,  I was just pointing out you could try again.  File sharing is a nice option.

Note the word was,  Have a nice day.

[Plus]

If you are really incapable of getting a Linux machine connected to the internet

Mental note to myself - some "helpers" are incapable of even readin reading.

My Linux is unaccessible by Windowns on the same network. That is Samba and file sharing.

As for connection to the Internet - I asked a few questions on this board a while back when I used True modem. Linux would connect, but only manually, if I reset default connection to pppoe, after a reboot the default would shift back to eth0, the system couldn't keep the setting. By comparison, WindowsXP on the same machine had absolutely no problems connecting on start up.

Solved that problem by buying a proper router+modem.

The problem exists between the keyboard and the user's chair.

With attitudes like that there will be quite some time before Linux would challenge Windows for market share - the original point of this thread.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Plus

[Richb2004v2]

I've been using Linux for about 6 months or so. I'm a lightweight user and I'm isolated from any actual help other than what can be found online. I have had plenty of problems getting Linux working completely, but all of those problems were small and could have been resolved quicker had I had a Linux experienced guy with me. I have found the latest version of Ubuntu to have been the closest to a trouble free OS.

In short I think that for 90% of users Linux could work for them, but they might need some help initially to make minor tweaks to get everything going. Is this good enough? I'm not sure it is, but I do think that Linux can only get better with time, and that it is close to being good enough to satisfy the domestic home user.

[Plus]

There's undoubtedly a lot or progress. Any Linux guide from three years ago would go on and on about using terminal.

These days users have GUI for everything, terminal is not needed at all (assuming GUIs are working properly).

My own problems are all related to deep system bowels, something that will hopefully be fixed in upcoming releases.

However, new releases means that programs not in the repos will not work at all, and I think that should be worrying, as it puts extra burden on developers.

In one case I saw someone berating the developer for not providing .rpm/.deb packages, saying that users are not supposed to compile anything themselves anymore. Valid point - Linux distros out of the box do not even have tools requires to install anything from the source - compile, make, install - those common terminal commands do not work anymore, you have to manually install things like gcc+ first, and no one tells your what exactly do you need to make this or that program or driver installed and working.

On the other hand, the developer must release dozens of different versions of the same program or driver and keep adding new versions few months to keep up with Linux updates, and they often are working on something else already, I suppose.

This has to be sorted out. Are we going to have more Open Source programs, or just a few but well maintained?

[Insight]

If you are really incapable of getting a Linux machine connected to the internet

Mental note to myself - some "helpers" are incapable of even readin reading.

My Linux is unaccessible by Windowns on the same network. That is Samba and file sharing.

As for connection to the Internet - I asked a few questions on this board a while back when I used True modem. Linux would connect, but only manually, if I reset default connection to pppoe, after a reboot the default would shift back to eth0, the system couldn't keep the setting. By comparison, WindowsXP on the same machine had absolutely no problems connecting on start up.

Solved that problem by buying a proper router+modem.

The problem exists between the keyboard and the user's chair.

With attitudes like that there will be quite some time before Linux would challenge Windows for market share - the original point of this thread.

One of the biggest headaches I've had with Linux (Ubuntu) is configuring the "interfaces" file to work with my WiFi network. Using the built-in network manager application wasn't viable as the user needed to log-in for it to connect - useless in an unattended scenario.

I'm sure I'm missing something but I couldn't find much online to help me, other than the advice of manually editing the interfaces file itself. I'm taken back a bit by this as, as far as my understanding goes, getting a network connection on boot is real ground-level stuff.

Flame away...

[Plus]

I think network connections load at boot, but if your particular connection depends on programs run later, they do not get activated - like my pppoe. At the boot time it doesn't exist, apparently, and network thingme accepts eth0 as default instead.

I think the same would be true for wifi. Is there some wifi manager that could run its own connection automatically? Compare this to Windows - wired ethernet is one of the first things that is up, but wireless is one of the last to load. With proper router, on Linux, I'm online even before I get to see the desktop.

[raro]

I had no real trouble with the WiFi, it worked more or less instantly but had to be set up manually...i.e. I had to key in the network name to connect to whereas Windows provides a list of available networks to chose from. I consider the latter more convenient.

My problems/findings were related to day-to-day office work which Outlook can handle better than Evolution. I am sure that there are other e-mail clients for Linux available but instead of suggesting some, the Linux faction just flamed away.

Same at linuxquestions.org - I am member at this forum for over 3 years and posted the exact same post with the 1:0, 2:0 etc for Windows along with some background info about why I post it and asking for an advise. Unfortunately most reactions were that I am too stupid/ignorant/trolling and no actual help provided.

This is an attitude that I observed in the past whenever I got tempted to go Linux...if you ask the Linux gurus for help you get either rebuffed or answres like "just wtie a little script and plug it into the .hdwk file and reboot and don't forget to tweak driver soandso with some extra command line" which isn't much helpful either.

[Gary A]

When Linux can run most programs designed for Windows, then I will make the change. Wine sucks and leaves much to be desired. Two programs I use often are AutoCad and Garmin Map Source. I can see no advantage for Linux unless it is the fact that it is free. Using two operating systems is certainly not efficient. Even programs written for Linux are usually difficult to install and get working properly. The Heinze 57 varieties are too confusing to experiment with. Ubuntu 9.04 is likely the best I have and I have tried maybe 8 different distros. If all the effort expended on the MANY distros were concentrated making just one distro, I think Linux would soon gain popularity.

[Emeritus]

The problem exists between the keyboard and the user's chair...

You have such a subtle way of putting it but I recognise myself in that description. After all these years of using Windows at work I lack the courage even to try Linux. If Linux had been around in the early 1970s when I first started using computers I probably would have used it and never looked at Windows for my personal computers.

[Insight]

Coincidently, this article has a slight Windows vs *nix approach from a developers perspective.

I'd love to get my hands dirty on a Linux development project, but there's simply no demand to use Linux with my current customers; people are happy with Windows and that's what they want they want to see their applications run on. So the circle continues...

[endure]

Why a Apple need a program named Parallels? And Linux as well just different name(forget the name and tired to search)? I mean for to run software which didn't exist for that OS's, standard software!

Because that OS's are not standard?!

Windows don't need such software because the programs which can exactly do what the Apple or Linux programs do existing in Windows.

Unix is excellent, no doubt! As OS for Mainframes pp!

Apple are excellent not doubt either! For that what they can do!

Linux are excellent as well, even no doubt!And again: for that what that OS can do!

Windows maybe not excellent in your eye's! But: it can do what all the other can do as well on an PC (not a Mainframe)! And can do even more!

Windows are not perfect, no doubt with that!

But: Linux and Apple are perfect? I doubt that!

The truth is that if someone want to work with Linux, need to start to learn again! But is that enough? I don't think so! And final that human will come back to Windows, because of the need to get work done!

Take you own post's here, I mean you, the linux guy's and see how many of you need to have Windows run as 2. system. Why, if everything is so perfect? And the same applies fir the Apple User's!

If you think that the nubers of running systems are incorrect, I really suggest you to go in offices, not one, a lot of them and start to count the systems running separated by OS and create your own statistic. Go to other user, but not to those you know, unknown users and check what they are running!

And after that you restart to think about the perfect system you runing! And also think about why so less humans using that perfect system because that systems ar not that perfect?

Cheers

Name one Windows only app that doesn't have an Open Source equivalent......granted there's interia from simpletons who can't relearn the apps from Windows, but with a few exceptions there's little that the closed source world offers that isn't matched or exceeded by Open Source.

Microsoft Money. If you can point to an open source equivalent that's localised for the UK tax system, understand ISAs, OIECS and VAT and that will connect to the Nationwide Building Society and download all my transactions into itself I'll give it a go.