Americans To Train Thai English Teachers

ProThaiExpat · February 13, 2005

I guess the word I referred to in my post that rhymes with canker is considered profanity by one moderator, as I have been ######. Yet for a year the word was used widely by Brits in many forums. Perhaps this word is morphing as we speak.

redwood13 · February 13, 2005

BBC is currently doing a survey of regional English as used in the British Isles.

"What is it that drives so many people to such passionate and persistent condemnation of certain variations in language?" is discussed here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/yourvoice/language_rules2.shtml

Article begins at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/

-redwood

chuchok · February 13, 2005

I guess the word I referred to in my post that rhymes with canker is considered profanity by one moderator, as I have been ######. Yet for a year the word was used widely by Brits in many forums. Perhaps this word is morphing as we speak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The act of self abuse aka masterbation.ie: w.anker.

Cockney rhyming slang also uses the term "merchant banker" to mean the same

ProThaiExpat · February 13, 2005

Thanks, Chuchok, for your input.

Since when does legitimate medical terms become inappropriate in Thaivisa.

While I stopped the practice, almost entirely after reaching majority, it is practiced by most people the world over. Am I missing something.

Are the words "sexual intrcourse" verbotten now? How about "solo intercourse"?

Perhaps, moderator guidlines permit the medical term but not the slang. Mai pen rai.

khunlungphudhu · February 13, 2005

My objection to the Americans teaching English remains the same as before. It is NOT due to the use of slang, which happens within any language and/or nationality, Thai being a classic with the regional differences, and the United Kingdom, which most of our cousins across the pond consider to be England, is in fact four seperate Nations with their own language. English, for better or worse, is their common language.

My objection is the American habit of misspelling English words, sticking them in a dictionary and calling the compllation English! They want their own language? No Problem. If you use a language, use it by the rules, they are there for a purpose.

Point is, try misspelling some Thai words the way Americans misspell English words and live with the result! If you can!

Dickie · February 13, 2005

accent's not half as bad as some of the south England pebblemouths I hear in Thailand.

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I AM a South England "pebblemouth" and the girl I recently met when in Kyrgyzstan found it almost impossible to understand me unless I spoke "more BBC". Personally oi thenk weeyav a marrvlus wayertarken.

From where did 'pebblemouth' come?

Dickie · February 13, 2005

I guess the word I referred to in my post that rhymes with canker is considered profanity by one moderator, as I have been ######. Yet for a year the word was used widely by Brits in many forums. Perhaps this word is morphing as we speak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure but I think the system raises an alert is a prophanity is used. If you know some HTML you can circumvent this system, like this: ######.

khunlungphudhu · February 13, 2005

Dickie, you sound more like a 'carrot cruncher' to me!!

Edited February 13, 2005 by khunlungphudhu

PeaceBlondie · February 13, 2005

As to Americans not being properly fit to teach English to Thais if we use Americanized spellings:

Good point; separate issue. However, I think a similar logic prevails. Why is 'labour' to be preferred over 'labor'? Both communicate, and the American version is shorter and less likely to be mispronounced, I suspect.

Why is the suffix '-ize' worse than '-ise'? Again, the pronunciation is more like a /z/ not an /s/ so it's spelled in American more closely to its sound. The last letter of the alphabet, of course, is not 'zed.'

Back on pronunciations, why is 'clerk' pronounced to rhyme with 'spark'? And why is the second vowel of 'command' pronounced as in 'father' when other words ending in -and rhyme with sand, land, and grand? Or is it grahhhnd and lahhnd and sahhhnd?

RDN · February 13, 2005

As to Americans not being properly fit to teach English to Thais if we use Americanized spellings:
Good point; separate issue. However, I think a similar logic prevails. Why is 'labour' to be preferred over 'labor'? Both communicate, and the American version is shorter and less likely to be mispronounced, I suspect.

Why is the suffix '-ize' worse than '-ise'? Again, the pronunciation is more like a /z/ not an /s/ so it's spelled in American more closely to its sound. The last letter of the alphabet, of course, is not 'zed.'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From "AskOxford.com":

Frequently Asked Questions

Spelling

Are spellings like 'privatize' and 'organize' Americanisms?

No, not really. British spelling has always recognized the existence of variant spellings using the suffix -ize/-ise. When American spelling was standardized during the 19th century (mainly through the efforts of the great American lexicographer Noah Webster), the consistent use of -ize was one of the conventions that became established. However, since then, the -ise spellings have become more popular in Britain (and in other English-speaking countries such as Australia), perhaps partly as a reaction against the American custom. Spellings such as organisation would have struck many older British writers as rather French-looking. The Oxford English Dictionary favoured -ize, partly on the linguistic basis that the suffix derives from the Greek suffix -izo, and this was also the style of Encyclopedia Britannica (even before it was American-owned) and formerly of the Times newspaper.

The main advantage of the modern -ise habit? Lazy spellers do not have to remember that there are several important words which cannot properly be spelt with -ize. These include words which are not formed by the addition of the -ize prefix to a stem, but by some other root which happens to end in the same syllable, such as -vise (as in televise), -cise (as in incise), and -prise (as in comprise).

The American system resulted in the creeping of z into some other words where it did not originally belong. Writers of American English should be aware of some spellings that are regarded as incorrect in the UK, notably analyze.

Back on pronunciations, why is 'clerk' pronounced to rhyme with 'spark'? And why is the second vowel of 'command' pronounced as in 'father' when other words ending in -and rhyme with sand, land, and grand? Or is it grahhhnd and lahhnd and sahhhnd?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've posted this before, but worth a second go:

When the English tongue we speak,

Why is "break" not rhymed with "freak"?

Will you tell me why it's true,

We say "sew" but likewise "few",

And the fashioner of verse

Cannot cap his "horse" with "worse"?

"Beard" sounds not the same as "heard",

"Cord" is different from "word";

"Cow" is cow but "low" is low,

"Shoe" is never rhymed with "foe";

Think of "hose" and "dose" and "lose",

And of "goose" and also "choose";

Think of "tomb" and "bomb" and "comb",

"Doll" and "roll" and "some" and "home",

And since "pay" is rhymed with "say",

Why not "paid" and "said" I pray?

We have "blood" and "food" and "good",

"Mould" is not pronounced like "could";

Wherefore "done" but "gone" and "lone"?

Is there any reason known?

No in short, it seems to me

Sound and letters disagree.

OUR STRANGE LANGUAGE

by E.L. Sabin

kat · February 13, 2005

Brilliant post, RDN. Made my day

Dickie · February 13, 2005

As to Americans not being properly fit to teach English to Thais if we use Americanized spellings:
Good point; separate issue. However, I think a similar logic prevails. Why is 'labour' to be preferred over 'labor'? Both communicate, and the American version is shorter and less likely to be mispronounced, I suspect.

Why is the suffix '-ize' worse than '-ise'? Again, the pronunciation is more like a /z/ not an /s/ so it's spelled in American more closely to its sound. The last letter of the alphabet, of course, is not 'zed.'

Back on pronunciations, why is 'clerk' pronounced to rhyme with 'spark'? And why is the second vowel of 'command' pronounced as in 'father' when other words ending in -and rhyme with sand, land, and grand? Or is it grahhhnd and lahhnd and sahhhnd?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A single 's' when not at the start of a word is pronounced like the 'z' in zoo, it only becomes sybillant when doubled, as in 'miss'. This is not an anachronism but is a function of how the real language works. Modern English and German are derived from the same language, but English allowed the Latin/Italian method of pronouncing 's' to supplant the uniform pronunciation of the letter 's' that is still used in German today. For example, 'Sie' (you) is pronounced 'zee'.

The suffix 'ize' is worse than 'ise' because it is WRONG, for the above reason.

As for 'labor' being better than 'labour' why not spell it 'laber' and solve any pronunciation problems? English spelling is not phonetic, which is also why 'command' is pronounced and spelt as it is.

ProThaiExpat · February 14, 2005

As to Americans not being properly fit to teach English to Thais if we use Americanized spellings:
Good point; separate issue. However, I think a similar logic prevails. Why is 'labour' to be preferred over 'labor'? Both communicate, and the American version is shorter and less likely to be mispronounced, I suspect.

Why is the suffix '-ize' worse than '-ise'? Again, the pronunciation is more like a /z/ not an /s/ so it's spelled in American more closely to its sound. The last letter of the alphabet, of course, is not 'zed.'

Back on pronunciations, why is 'clerk' pronounced to rhyme with 'spark'? And why is the second vowel of 'command' pronounced as in 'father' when other words ending in -and rhyme with sand, land, and grand? Or is it grahhhnd and lahhnd and sahhhnd?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A single 's' when not at the start of a word is pronounced like the 'z' in zoo, it only becomes sybillant when doubled, as in 'miss'. This is not an anachronism but is a function of how the real language works. Modern English and German are derived from the same language, but English allowed the Latin/Italian method of pronouncing 's' to supplant the uniform pronunciation of the letter 's' that is still used in German today. For example, 'Sie' (you) is pronounced 'zee'.

The suffix 'ize' is worse than 'ise' because it is WRONG, for the above reason.

As for 'labor' being better than 'labour' why not spell it 'laber' and solve any pronunciation problems? English spelling is not phonetic, which is also why 'command' is pronounced and spelt as it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lets shoot all the teachers who teach English phonetically. Where would the most deaths be recorded, England or the U.S.???

That's how I learned it all the way through my 20 years of education.

Diggerbasher · February 14, 2005

Americans cannot speak English,full stop.The students need teachers that speak the language properly.

Dickie · February 14, 2005

I guess the word I referred to in my post that rhymes with canker is considered profanity by one moderator, as I have been ######. Yet for a year the word was used widely by Brits in many forums. Perhaps this word is morphing as we speak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure but I think the system raises an alert is a prophanity is used. If you know some HTML you can circumvent this system, like this: ######.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh-heh! Someone has edited the post, removed my editing rights for my own post and lacks the guts to show he's done it.

brianbrain · February 14, 2005

Give me a break: virtually all Thai students grimace at "half-past 5, or quarter to 6" especially when 5:30 and 6:45 are far better and more precise.

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There should be no misunderstanding of half-past five. Thai people use a very similar phrase in their own language. And do you really think 5:30 is any more precise? If half-past five is any less precise (and I'm not sure that it is) that may be to its advantage. Do you really want to know it is half-past five or exactly 5:31? Oh hang on, it's 5:32 now...

Edited February 14, 2005 by brianbrain

brianbrain · February 14, 2005

Point is, try misspelling some Thai words the way Americans misspell English words and live with the result! If you can!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I practise Thai by chatting (typing) on the Internet with Thai people, only using Thai. You'll be amazed by the number of misspellings and slang-spellings in use! Sometimes it is like a different language...

astral · February 15, 2005

Leaving all the joking aside, I do believe that any help with language

(English or American) is desperately needed here.

A good friend of mine has been asked to coach a girl in her final year of a Bachelor Degree in English at a Thai university.

He tells me that she has never read any English books outside the

set books if the course, and does not understand how to construct a basic English sentence, Subject, verb, object etc.

If this is indicative of the level of Thai instruction, ANY form of help is desperately needed!!

ProThaiExpat · February 15, 2005

Americans cannot speak English,full stop.The students need teachers that speak the language properly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even those Americans that were born, raised and educated to doctoral level in England?

Why not just change your screen name to "Americanbasher" and be done with it. Then your sweeping generalizations will be flying under your true colors!

mbkudu · February 15, 2005

Leaving all the joking aside, I do believe that any help with language
(English or American) is desperately needed here.

A good friend of mine has been asked to coach a girl in her final year of a Bachelor Degree in English at a Thai university.

He tells me that she has never read any English books outside the

set books if the course, and does not understand how to construct a basic English sentence, Subject, verb, object etc.

If this is indicative of the level of Thai instruction, ANY form of help is desperately needed!!

Astral is so right. For all you antis here who think only one system works; well why aren't you volunteering your time? How hard could it be for the British Council

to do something similar? I like both American and British English and when I taught English I encouraged my students to familiariz(s)e themselves with both.

phuketsiam · February 15, 2005

That was a successful troll

Diggerbasher · February 15, 2005

The problem with most Americans is that their speach is slurred and lacks the clarity you would need to teach.

mbkudu · February 15, 2005

The problem with most Americans is that their speach is slurred and lacks the clarity you would need to teach.

You can't be serious.

Diggerbasher · February 15, 2005

Maybe a little harsh but possibly due to my exposure to a high proportion of Southerners.

Edited February 15, 2005 by Diggerbasher

Ijustwannateach · February 15, 2005

Don't feed the trolls, folks.

"Steven"

mbkudu · February 15, 2005

Maybe a little harsh but possibly due to my exposure to a high proportion of Southerners.

I'll agree with you on that. America, like Britain, has various regions with different accents. Some of these regions speak English with an odd twang. The main reason for this is that many people living in these respective regions have vestiges of old European languages in their speech patterns. That's why you might hear a trace of Scandinavian from someone living in Minnisota or South Dakota or a bit of 'Irish'

from a Bostonian. Many of the people from Texas are German immigrants. Many people from New York think that people from California speak too slowly, like retarded surfers or something and Californians think that East Coasters are pushy, fast talking wheeler dealers that need to relax a bit. It's hard enough for Thais to find a good teacher as it is with all the traveling dregs coming in and out. Does it really matter where they're from as long as they are good and can be understood?

mbkudu · February 15, 2005

Don't feed the trolls, folks.
"Steven"

Feedeing trolls can be fun. Be nice to the little fellows, make them fat and happy and then they bugger off back under the bridges where they came from.

Diggerbasher · February 15, 2005

Why do the teachers have to ba Caucasians?

Many Indians speak superb English and so do a large proportion of people in Singapore.They would certainly be cheaper too.

mbkudu · February 15, 2005

Why do the teachers have to ba Caucasians?
Many Indians speak superb English and so do a large proportion of people in Singapore.They would certainly be cheaper too.

Who said they have to be Caucaisians? It is true that there are good non-native

English teachers in Thailand. I think the point of this thread here is that someone

(the AUA) has offered to help. It is not clear if the Thai government is being charged or if it is free training. Either way it is probably very cheap if there is a fee for the training.

sriracha john · February 15, 2005

Leaving all the joking aside, I do believe that any help with language
(English or American) is desperately needed here.

A good friend of mine has been asked to coach a girl in her final year of a Bachelor Degree in English at a Thai university.

He tells me that she has never read any English books outside the

set books if the course, and does not understand how to construct a basic English sentence, Subject, verb, object etc.

If this is indicative of the level of Thai instruction, ANY form of help is desperately needed!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is VERY true. I've known at least a half dozen Thai graduates with English majors who can't hold a simple conversation.

All this "American versus British" language nonsense is a waste of time and text. I'd be happy if a Peruvian would teach them English.

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