Driveshaft?

[G54]

Turning left I have a grumble from the front end. Front wheel drive motor.

I was told it is most likely the steering column but the engineer has looked at it and says.....

The main bearing on the drive shaft has gone. He also says the full drive shaft needs replacing. Is the nearside shaft he has taken out.

This sound about right? Strange one says steering yet this one has stripped the whole drive shaft out. You can tell I am not a mechanic

Cost of 5k Baht for the drive shaft and a new bearing.

Edited June 23, 2009 by G54

[Crossy]

A low grumble or clicking when on lock is likely the CV joint (that's the outboard joint of the driveshaft).

Modern motors require replacement of the complete shaft assembly as the joints are non-serviceable parts

5k sounds cheap as chips

[nonthaburial]

Drive shaft bearing sounds about right, , turning left and LH drive shaft bearing diagnosed, yup I would go with that

[G54]

Thanks.

Puts my mind at ease to have some confirmation. Also helps to give some confidence in the new engineer I found. At least he speaks some English and only 500 metres away.

As I type, telephone confirmation of prices.

Reconditioned full driveshaft with guarantee 5,200 Baht.

New bearing 1,200 Baht.

Seems good enough to me at that price. Car back tomorrow

[Hssl]

hard lock left/right at slow speed will have a knocking sound if drive shafts are on there way out 5K doesn't sound too bad a price

[saintofsilence]

I would say the driveshaft but i doubt also the wheel bearing at the same time if that is what you are referring to, if there was only one noise when turning its the driveshaft.

I agree the whole shaft will need replacing and that price is ok.

If you have a outer noise without anyload on it is a wheel bearing eg running in neutral.

Wheel bearings last a lot longer than driveshafs

Edited June 23, 2009 by saintofsilence

[Datsun240Z]

A low grumble or clicking when on lock is likely the CV joint (that's the outboard joint of the driveshaft).

Modern motors require replacement of the complete shaft assembly as the joints are non-serviceable parts

5k sounds cheap as chips

Really? I thought you could always " seperate " the CV joint from the drive shaft actually, it's sealed with a clip.

[saintofsilence]

A low grumble or clicking when on lock is likely the CV joint (that's the outboard joint of the driveshaft).

Modern motors require replacement of the complete shaft assembly as the joints are non-serviceable parts

5k sounds cheap as chips

Really? I thought you could always " seperate " the CV joint from the drive shaft actually, it's sealed with a clip.

They don't all come off that easy that is why full shafts are sold .

Many can be so tight that they have to be put into a press and part of the end of the shaft where the clip is, will shear off.

Edited June 23, 2009 by saintofsilence

[denboy]

You do not mention what model of vehicle.

I am rather suspicious that you mechanic is reccomending what I call the Caterpiller conumdrum 'replace evreything to garuntee'

The outer bearing is removable from the drive shaft so why replce it if the drive shaft is OK. However if it is the constant velocity joint which is worn and making a noise that is a different problem.

Even then there are kits to replace the balls in the joint, it then depends on the model of vehicle as to wether it can be done.

I replaced the balls and outer shaft on my nissan thus saving the full price of the whole shaft.

of course as mentioned the price is Ok so for peace of mind, change the lot.

Cheers

[G54]

You do not mention what model of vehicle.

I am rather suspicious that you mechanic is reccomending what I call the Caterpiller conumdrum 'replace evreything to garuntee'

The outer bearing is removable from the drive shaft so why replce it if the drive shaft is OK. However if it is the constant velocity joint which is worn and making a noise that is a different problem.

Even then there are kits to replace the balls in the joint, it then depends on the model of vehicle as to wether it can be done.

I replaced the balls and outer shaft on my nissan thus saving the full price of the whole shaft.

of course as mentioned the price is Ok so for peace of mind, change the lot.

Cheers

He took the whole shaft off and showed it to me.

The bearing on the shaft was removed and shown to me to be checked and you can tell it is not running smoothly.

I did get to look at the ball joints, They seem OK with little wear and tear on them.

This mechanic has been helpful and with his limited English and my limited Thai he has shown me what he has done.

Later today I will be back at the garage and taking the car for a test run to make sure the noise and grumbling feel have gone before paying up.

Better to have it all done especially for those times when I am off on the runs to the border for my 90 days stamp and would rather have the car in good fettle than break down in the middle of nowhere.

Good to hear too that the price is not a rip off

[Bpraim1]

What he is saying is that , the CV or constant velocity joint has failed. You can do two things!

1) replace the bearing CV joint itself

2) replace the complete half shaft, CV joint plus short outershaft.

It is not recomended to just change the balls in the joint and repack the boot. As the Joint is knocking meaning it is damaged.

[mdechgan]

You can just change the outer joints. its only about 1-2000 baht per set. Left and right. Only the outer ones fail because they have the most movement. Its not that difficult, but really messy. Grease is everywhere. The shafts you have to replace if the splines are stripped or damaged. I wouldn't buy used. Because CV joints are meant to fail and be replaced.

[G54]

Update

Got the car back today. The driveshaft itself had to be sent to BKK to be reconditioned as they did not have one in stock. (So I was told Monday for the car back)

Turned out cheaper too.

4000 Baht for the recon job. 1200 for the bearing and 1200 for labour.

6400 in total.

Driven the car around all afternoon and not a grumble out of it.

I am happy

[neverdie]

^ What are you doing about fixing the other loose nut behind the wheel?

[G54]

Me no have spanner for fixy loosey nut.

[Jimjim]

Driveshaft. Great band.

[BSJ]

The thread must be a little confusing to those with little mechanical knowledge!

Two areas are of concern, the first being the wheel bearing which supports the mass of the rotating components at the hub - the drive shaft, wheel and brake rotor. And the drive shaft itself which transmits torque from the gearbox/engine to move the vehicle.

It does not naturally follow that a wheel bearing is faulty if the driveshaft is faulty. And vis versa. But in this case it does as the OP said so.

Dattos pix is of a typical CV shaft with the one retaining clip. In most cases a good clean out, new balls, new grease and a new boot are all you need. The balls will always go before the housing which is super high tensile steel. So in the end we have a reco driveshaft as supplied.

[saintofsilence]

The thread must be a little confusing to those with little mechanical knowledge!

Two areas are of concern, the first being the wheel bearing which supports the mass of the rotating components at the hub - the drive shaft, wheel and brake rotor. And the drive shaft itself which transmits torque from the gearbox/engine to move the vehicle.

It does not naturally follow that a wheel bearing is faulty if the driveshaft is faulty. And vis versa. But in this case it does as the OP said so.

Dattos pix is of a typical CV shaft with the one retaining clip. In most cases a good clean out, new balls, new grease and a new boot are all you need. The balls will always go before the housing which is super high tensile steel. So in the end we have a reco driveshaft as supplied.

I totally disagree with you about that by replacing the balls and boot and grease will fix it , the noise of a driveshaft is caused through the metal in the bearing cage being worn away and the noise is of the bearing running in and out of the worn area .

Ninety percent of driveshafts fail due to the rubber boot breaking and the grease drying up after that the bearing stuffs up due to running dry.

Also the bearing tracks in the housing are very prone to breaking through the hard casing which is irrepairable.

When a driveshaft is reconditioned the cage and bearings are always replaced with oversize pieces and if the outer housing has the hard casing broken inside it is a throw away and a new outer is replaced.

Also as I said in another post the shop charging him for wheel bearings does not sound right I doubt that they would have needed replacing wheel bearings and the driveshaft at the same time driveshafts outlast wheel bearings by years.

Putting just balls and grease back in to worn areas wont fix it .

Edited June 28, 2009 by saintofsilence

[Lickey]

Saint,

Fair coment about the cage and balls ect, but sometimes the W/bearing surfaces of the CV joint will get rusted together on older cars, so a press is needed to push out the CV joint, and depending on what type of bearing is used, will very often push-out the center races of both bearings, hence the need to replace bearings.

Yes, we are talking Thai mechanics here, but really its the same all over the world, take your car to a Quik-Fit center for an exhaust box and suddenly it needs 4 new shockers and 2 tyres, and the gullible will agree and pay, Those of use blessed with mechanial knowledge can and will save ourselves a lot of money!!

[saintofsilence]

Saint,

Fair coment about the cage and balls ect, but sometimes the W/bearing surfaces of the CV joint will get rusted together on older cars, so a press is needed to push out the CV joint, and depending on what type of bearing is used, will very often push-out the center races of both bearings, hence the need to replace bearings.

Yes, we are talking Thai mechanics here, but really its the same all over the world, take your car to a Quik-Fit center for an exhaust box and suddenly it needs 4 new shockers and 2 tyres, and the gullible will agree and pay, Those of use blessed with mechanial knowledge can and will save ourselves a lot of money!!

Lickey

I agree with you about bearings can rust on the shaft and then you need to replace them but it is a very low percentage no more than 2% would need the driveshaft and wheel bearings replacing at the same time

A driveshaft will only last as long as the rubber boot on it will last and many driveshafts fail in cars under 200,000 klm.

[Lancashirelad]

My thoughts were the same as many other posters as soon as i started to read the thread, in that the wheel bearing didn't necessarily need replacing also.

I'd suggest that the mechanic is just being caucious (sp?) and/or conscientious.

Bit like putting a clutch job back together having only replaced the drive plate. It might be ok for thousands of kms, but there again the cover plate or release bearing might fail next week, so best to replace all 3 components whilst the gearbox is off.

Done lots of these shaft knuckle replacements in the past. It is indeed a messy job. Hunt the circlip in amongst the grease!

Those of you who've done the type pictured, how did you go on? That type of clip can't be removed so you have to send the uj over it, which in my experience often buggers it!

[Datsun240Z]

If we tell you how we did it, we would be out of work;)

Nowadays it's better to replace the CV Joint completely, the cost isn't much. In the past, people used to do what BSJ describes, also nothing wrong with that.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Datsun240Z