After 3 Months Of Waiting We Receive A Refusal On A Technicality

[pingit]

Hi,

just new to this forum. I have been in Thailand since March with my spouse and our 1 year old son. We met in the UK while my spouse was doing her masters degree around 5 years ago. After her studies and working for a University in Thailand for a couple years, she received a 2 years visiting visa, and we travelled always together back and forward from UK to Thailand. Our son was actually born in Thailand and now has dual citizenship , Thai and UK.

We travelled back to Thailand in March 09 to apply for her settlement visa. We applied on 19th March, and on the 19th June we got the reply that it was refused ! There was NO interview or ANY request for further documents, however the reason the ECO put down was that we hadn't adequately shown accommodation and maintenance. I have my own restaurant for the last 7 years, so they had my accounts, and also the lease for our house is in both our names, and also the council tax is in both our names. We have been basically living in the UK for the last 2 years together as she had that 2 years visitors visa.

My point is that if the ECO had some issues he might have requested further documents or an interview? Now for the first time in over 2 years I have had to return alone and leave my fiance and son in Chiang Mai ! Surely rather than split a family up the ECO should have simply made a phone call to us in Chiang Mai. I was on the phone to them alot while we all waited there for 3 months on this terrible decision!

tomorrow I have an appointment with my MP and also have left a message on the ECM's voicemail. Have sent them further emails with more bank statements showing my ability to support my family, and also practically every member of my family has written an email to them supporting all my evidence. I really feel this is so much a case of being unfairly treated. The ECO had lots of info on us, my house papers, work papers, accounts, 1 month bank statements, my divorce papers translated all originals and certified... my sons birth certificate , photo's, emails over the last 5 years, my spouses history as a lecturer, her good previous visa history, she even had a government passport ( being a government official in a University ) . For the sake of 1, yes 1, more document that would keep my family together this ECO decided not to ask for it ! I know for a fact that it is more common for them to ask for further information after someone has submitted their application, than not to. Why not ask for this 1 document to clear this case up??

To top it all off I personally have a sponsors license issued by the Home Office in the UK. This is a license a business needs to apply for work permits. you have to prove yourself as a decent sponsor for any staff you might want to employ. So the Home Office was Ok with it why is this ECO not?

Any thoughts??? advice anyone might have would be really appreciated... thanks

[lioness]

Well the decision has been made, so all you can do now is work through the problem and ask for it to be reassessed as a matter of urgency, the urgency being you are now seperated from your child. Getting on to your MP will probably help, apart from that if you have provided the missing information they should review it.

Hope it works out for you.

[snuggzzz]

I'm sorry to hear of your plight. Is your sponsors Licence up to date, only the law changed I believe, earlier this year regarding this, perhaps, that may be the reason..?? I hope that it is soon resolved for all your sakes.

[7by7]

As I said to you here; the burden of proof lies with the applicant.

From ECB10 - Making a decision on an application

ECB10.6 Burden of proof

The burden of proof lies with the applicant. This is implicit in the various sections of the Rules which state that entry clearance may be granted "... provided the Immigration Officer (read ECO) is satisfied that each of the requirements (of the relevant Rules) is met".

If the applicant does not produce evidence, or the evidence produced is inadequate to show that he/she fulfils the qualifying requirements of a category in the Rules, then a refusal will usually be appropriate.

ECB10.8 What to do if an applicant provides insufficient information

The onus is on the applicant to ensure that their application is prepared properly. The application should not be deferred, except in the most exceptional circumstances, to enable the applicant to produce additional documents. A refusal on papers should be considered

(My emphasis)

So, although it does happen sometimes, the ECO is under no obligation to chase after missing documents; especially at a time like this when they are trying to clear a huge backlog.

However, Para ECB10.8 goes on to say

However, where the ECO judges that the applicant would be granted entry clearance should the information have been provided (for example where the applicant has a good travel history), the application should be resolved without sight of the documents.

From the information you have provided in your posts, it seems that they could have done this in your wife's case.

Have you, as I suggested previously, returned the notice of appeal? Hopefully this wont be needed as the decision will be overturned; but get it in, just in case.

By all means, talk to your MP. However, the most s/he can do is get them to review the decision. If this refusal is fully justified by the rules your MP cannot make them reverse it.

You say

To top it all off I personally have a sponsors license issued by the Home Office in the UK. This is a license a business needs to apply for work permits. you have to prove yourself as a decent sponsor for any staff you might want to employ. So the Home Office was Ok with it why is this ECO not?

Totally irrelevant, I'm afraid. That you have satisfied the conditions to allow you to sponsor and employ work permit holders has nothing to do with a settlement application for your wife or you ability to support and accommodate her and your child adequately.

All the above is simply general comments based upon you post. As I've previously said to you, it is impossible to offer case specific comments or advice without knowing exactly what the refusal notice says. If you would prefer not to post this in an open forum, then feel free to PM me.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You may write to the ECM explaining you feel he needs to look again at your case supply further evidence of this and he may overturn the decision.

[pingit]

thanks. When we write to the ECM do you mean the formal way of an appeal form and fresh evidence? that is what we are planning.

also if that doesn't work, would it be ok for us to apply for a tourist visa like she got for the last 2 years?

im really starting to get confused. She has never had any problems getting her visa before. she has had a student visa, then a tourist visa, then a 2 years tourist visa now a refusal? gutted for my us and our son.

[7by7]

Write to the ECM as well as submitting the notice of appeal.

She can apply for a visit visa in the meantime, but having now said that she wants to settle in the UK any such application is liable to be refused on reason to return grounds.

im really starting to get confused. She has never had any problems getting her visa before. she has had a student visa, then a tourist visa, then a 2 years tourist visa now a refusal? gutted for my us and our son.

For the third time; if you want advice and/or comments specific to this refusal then we need to know what the refusal notice says.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Can you let us know what it says on the refusal of entry clearance notice.

[pingit]

hi guys,

sorry if i hadn't made it very clear before. quite simply on the refusal letter it says that we hadn't shown adequate info that there would be accommodation and maintenance for us both and any dependants our arrival to the UK. That is basically the most of it.

he then goes on to say ( in a very contradicting way to his first statement ) , " whilst Im satisfied with your spouses employment and accommodation, you have failed to show me that there would be readily available funds from your sponsor to satisfy me that there would be adequate maintenance for you and any dependants apon arrival to the UK".

He then says further bank statements would have helped... or as he put... wouldn't have been unreasonable. So as far as I can see, we would have been A - OK if he had kindly asked for the info he needs. I know he's not obliged to, but in most cases Im seeing that people are being asked for this. I just think with us having a child too, that if he just wanted proof of readily available funds, then he might have asked. it would save splitting a family up.

So i have a lot prepared for the appeal form going along with a savings account I started putting money into this year. it shows around 7,000 pounds in it, and I keep hearing that you dont need a specific amount of money just show your not going to use public funds...

do you guys think it sounds ok for us??

[theoldgit]

Just be aware that a formal appeal can take a considerable time, though it's possible a refusal can be overturned in the meantime.

Why don't you do what others have done and try and contact the ECM, Entry Clearance Manager, explain what's happened and ask him to have a look at it and maybe consider the additional evidence.

I think your experience is a lesson to all, ensure you have covered everything without overwhelming the ECO with too many documents.

[pingit]

Hi theoldgit,

yeah. thanks for the advice. Im actually kindof trying to do both at the same time? I have been on the phone to the Embassy and I asked to speak to the ECM... I was then put thru to a voicemail answering machine, with a mans voice ( ECM ) saying to leave a message and details and anything compassionate he will endeavor to contact me in 1 day. I have also sent emails to the complaint email address ,adresssing them to the ECM. Also have been in touch with my MP, who said he will try to get it reviewed.

hmmm is there anyway do you know , or have you heard, of this voicemail before? is this the ECM? Do they also get my email ? My parents have also emailed too backing up my ability to support my own family. I have just heard that along with trying to contact the ECM you should also put in the formal appeal, but hopefully it wouldn't be needed. Im just trying to cover all angles really, as this was surely a rushed mistake.

[theoldgit]

The ECM is called Gerry Grant, his name is listed on the Thai MFA website. I don't know if all his calls are diverted to a voicemail, but I imagine that he and all his team are pretty busy at the moment, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to use his voicemail to filter calls - providing he does return them.

You are correct about actually putting an appeal in as you only have a specific time, I was just advising that appeals can take a considerable time. I think that they would rather review them and possibly reverse decisions locally, if justified, rather than having appeals upheld centrally.

[pingit]

I really hope your right.

yeah i think i read one of your earlier post to someone telling them how to get the names of the ECM's. That was very helpful, Thanks ! I put it in my email to him.

I beleive his voicemail also gave the email address of complaints.bangkok etc etc. so Im hoping he gets to read what I have said, as I also emailed this savings account to him showing I had money saved up.

heres hoping as I miss my girl and wee boy.

[personchester]

I really hope your right.

yeah i think i read one of your earlier post to someone telling them how to get the names of the ECM's. That was very helpful, Thanks ! I put it in my email to him.

I beleive his voicemail also gave the email address of complaints.bangkok etc etc. so Im hoping he gets to read what I have said, as I also emailed this savings account to him showing I had money saved up.

heres hoping as I miss my girl and wee boy.

Please use common sense and maturity, transactions of any type have potential problems and they are there to be resolved, respond to the ECM in writing via recorded delivery and in a business like manner, asking for an explanation of the issues that resulted in the negativity of your application.

The ECM is not a shopkeeper who can make decisions as he pleases, he is a civil servant who must act according to the law, and he must explain the reason(s) that underline his final decisions, therefore ask for this explanation by a formal letter.

Also show maturity by acting in a business like manner, make no reference to any emotional feelings that you might have, like making reference to "I miss my girl and wee boy" this is a completely private matter which has absolutely nothing to do

with you application so keep that private, the ECM will not base his decision on you emotional feelings, facts, only facts relative to the emigration laws play a part here, so keep that in mind when pursueing the matter further.

I wish you luck.

[7by7]

sorry if i hadn't made it very clear before. quite simply on the refusal letter it says that we hadn't shown adequate info that there would be accommodation and maintenance for us both and any dependants our arrival to the UK. That is basically the most of it.

Still need the exact wording to give full advice and/or comments; but my initial thoughts based on what you have said are:-

he then goes on to say ( in a very contradicting way to his first statement ) , " whilst Im satisfied with your spouses employment and accommodation, you have failed to show me that there would be readily available funds from your sponsor to satisfy me that there would be adequate maintenance for you and any dependants apon arrival to the UK".

Not contradictory at all. He is saying that he is satisfied that you are working, but not that you have the means to adequately support and accommodate your wife and child.

He then says further bank statements would have helped... or as he put... wouldn't have been unreasonable. So as far as I can see, we would have been A - OK if he had kindly asked for the info he needs. I know he's not obliged to, but in most cases Im seeing that people are being asked for this. I just think with us having a child too, that if he just wanted proof of readily available funds, then he might have asked. it would save splitting a family up

How many bank statements did you supply? If I recall one of you other posts in different threads correctly it was just one. The document checklist doesn't specify how many, simply 'recent bank statements' but I'd have thought any sensible person would think that one is not enough. I usually recommend 6 months worth.

Yes, the ECO could have asked for more information, but as explained before is not obliged to. It does sometimes happen when one or two documents are missing, but one cannot rely on it; especially at a busy time such as now.

It is the applicant's responsibility to ensure that all the necessary evidence is included; not the ECO's to chase after it.

From what you have said it appears that your wife does qualify, but you failed to show that she does. In such a case the ECM may overturn the refusal, especially as it appears that any appeal would succeed. However, when you contact them do not go on about what they should have done; say what you should have done and that you now include the missing evidence.

Submit the appeal, just in case. You can withdraw it should the ECM reverse the original decision. Which I hope is what happens.

Edited June 28, 2009 by 7by7

[pingit]

Thank you very much for your advice. I have taken it on board and will do just as you said. Hmmmm my mother and father has sent him an email, and it really is an email that is a character profile, and I think there would be a bit of emotion in there. Not really anything that will overturn any decision, just how they were feeling.

I hope this wont hinder my case?? what do you think?? My family were just shocked at the result, and sent a polite email but in some parts showing their emotions.

I will do it the facts way in a business matter. One question tho. In my letter should I show him my proof of accommodation such as my photographs, and also I was going to put in the last 4 months statements of my savings account, which shows more than enough money to maintain ourselves in my opinion ( 7000 GBP ). Should I put that in my letter along with my monthly outgoings?

[7by7]

Put in all the evidence you have to show your financial situation; current account, savings, everything. Not just the latest statements, but the last 6 months worth. If you didn't do so then include your latest certified accounts, presumably these will be for 2007/8 so also include any provisional accounts you have for 2008/9 and even 2009/10 if you have them. If you do not have certified accounts then a copy of the appropriate SA return should do instead.

A description of the property is essential, plus proof of ownership or if you rent a landlord's letter granting them permission to live there. Phots may help, too.

This application apparently failed because you did not give them enough evidence; don't make the same mistake again!

[Electra]

he then goes on to say ( in a very contradicting way to his first statement ) , " whilst Im satisfied with your spouses employment and accommodation, you have failed to show me that there would be readily available funds from your sponsor to satisfy me that there would be adequate maintenance for you and any dependants apon arrival to the UK".

Not contradictory at all. He is saying that he is satisfied that you are working, but not that you have the means to adequately support and accommodate your wife and child.( Quote by 7 by 7)

Actually, Pingit you are spot on and any half decent lawyer would nail this flimsy refusal for what it is without too much difficulty.

The test is quite simple and founded on the principle that any decision should be based upon the balance of probabilities, and not beyond reasonable doubt. The ECO has pronounced himself satisfied that maintenance and accommodation from the sponsor has been met within the rules and therefore one must assume that the minimum level of subsistence assessed by the government has been equalled if not exceeded. His subsequent comment, seemingly unqualified, is quite perverse and in law unsupportable.

Frankly, one could just appeal and await the adjudicator's inevitabe determination in your favour rather than waste time and money in further applications. By all means make representations on your own account against this stupid refusal but given the current regime it is unlikely they will volte face unless forced to.

7 by 7 means well but like many lay folk he hasn't a clue about what actually goes on although he may argue otherwise if only to maintain credibility as an all round good egg. That is OK in some cases but not necessarily in others and gives foundation to the maxim that ' a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing'.

Please give consideration to qualified legal representation. Remember, a stitch in time........

Edited June 29, 2009 by Electra

[pingit]

he then goes on to say ( in a very contradicting way to his first statement ) , " whilst Im satisfied with your spouses employment and accommodation, you have failed to show me that there would be readily available funds from your sponsor to satisfy me that there would be adequate maintenance for you and any dependants apon arrival to the UK".

Not contradictory at all. He is saying that he is satisfied that you are working, but not that you have the means to adequately support and accommodate your wife and child.( Quote by 7 by 7)

Actually, Pingit you are spot on and any half decent lawyer would nail this flimsy refusal for what it is without too much difficulty.

The test is quite simple and founded on the principle that any decision should be based upon the balance of probabilities, and not beyond reasonable doubt. The ECO has pronounced himself satisfied that maintenance and accommodation from the sponsor has been met within the rules and therefore one must assume that the minimum level of subsistence assessed by the government has been equalled if not exceeded. His subsequent comment, seemingly unqualified, is quite perverse and in law unsupportable.

Frankly, one could just appeal and await the adjudicator's inevitabe determination in your favour rather than waste time and money in further applications. By all means make representations on your own account against this stupid refusal but given the current regime it is unlikely they will volte face unless forced to.

7 by 7 means well but like many lay folk he hasn't a clue about what actually goes on although he may argue otherwise if only to maintain credibility as an all round good egg. That is OK in some cases but not necessarily in others and gives foundation to the maxim that ' a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing'.

Please give consideration to qualified legal representation. Remember, a stitch in time........

Thanks for that ...

I have very carefully presented my case in writing to Entry clearance Manager Gerry Grant, in the form of a professional letter, saving account statements a detailed expenditure sheet, proof of my credit, proof of my business expenses which covers the cost of my car and accommodation... and photos and detailed description of my accommodation. Put in my pension details, plans that I'm about to open a life insurance policy ( i know I dont have the certificate yet ) but put that in anyway. Also called my council to ask them to come and view my accommodation to proove that it does not go against the over crowding rules that are laid out. I told him in my letter that as soon as I have the letter from the council I will fax it to him and also send it to Bangkok vis recorded delivery. I'm in the UK just now.

all this info I plan to fax him first thing tomorrow, and then email it to Oa in Thailand which she will then print and send to him, then I will send it to him also so he has the copies direct from me. I got the bank to stamp and sign all the statements and have tried to cover all the points in the refusal letter.

I will let you all know of the progress. Here's hoping we can get a quick result !

Oh, the fax for them: does anyone know if its just the general fax number that is on the website for the British embassy bangkok, or would Gerry Grant have a different number. Just want to make sure he receives my documents...

Jay

[theoldgit]

Oh, the fax for them: does anyone know if its just the general fax number that is on the website for the British embassy bangkok, or would Gerry Grant have a different number. Just want to make sure he receives my documents...

I don't know if the ECM has his own fax number, I suspect not, I presume you have this one: 0-2254-9579

Edit: Just a thought I would be inclined to address you fax for general attantion just in case he is on leave and it gets put to one side, I obviously don't know their internal procedures. Without wishing ing to give egg sucking advice don't forget to put the reference numbers on your fax to ensure it's linked to the correct file.

Good luck.

Edited June 29, 2009 by theoldgit

[pingit]

Oh, the fax for them: does anyone know if its just the general fax number that is on the website for the British embassy bangkok, or would Gerry Grant have a different number. Just want to make sure he receives my documents...

I don't know if the ECM has his own fax number, I suspect not, I presume you have this one: 0-2254-9579

Actually I have a different one? 0-2255-9278 ?

got it from the british embassy website bangkok?? should I use your one? really appreciate that !!

[theoldgit]

Actually I have a different one? 0-2255-9278 ?

got it from the british embassy website bangkok?? should I use your one? really appreciate that !!

Sorry I honestly don't know, I copied mine from the Diplomatic List.

Well your up late and I'm up early, I am just off to make an offering to the monk - I will put a word in.

[pingit]

Actually I have a different one? 0-2255-9278 ?

got it from the british embassy website bangkok?? should I use your one? really appreciate that !!

Sorry I honestly don't know, I copied mine from the Diplomatic List.

Well your up late and I'm up early, I am just off to make an offering to the monk - I will put a word in.

Thanks mate ! yeah see yours now on that Diplomatic list....I'll use both.

Give the monk a wee something for me will you .

[ExoticMatter]

Wow Pingit that is 1 strong case you've got. While I've heard it said there is no specific figure for income(above income support level of course), in reality there is a cutoff figure but they (the embassy) would just never admit it.

Isn't it crazy for example that claiming Asylum while your spouse was in England could possibly have yielded a much simpler(and incredibly cheaper) and more positive result:(.

[pingit]

Just faxed over my letter and further supporting documents to the Embassy. Thing is does it HAVE to be faxed in Office hours? I sent around 5.30 pm Thai time as I am in the UK. Does anyone know if they should still get it?

I will email it too, and just want to check the APET # ... is that the ref number with a few slashes in it.

ie. xxxxx/xxxxx/x

Good luck everyone who is still biting their nails !!

Jay

[7by7]

Pingit, I don't want to get into another stupid argument with Electra, but.....

That the sponsor is working and has a home is not enough. The sponsor needs to show that their income is sufficient to support their partner, and any children, and that the accommodation is suitable. This is why I say that the ECO's statement is not contradictory; it appears from the posts you made in other threads that you failed to do this.

As I said earlier, it seems that you and you wife do meet the maintenance and accommodation requirement, but failed to show that you do. So make sure you provide the evidence now and hopefully the refusal will be overturned without you having to go through the lengthy appeals process.

BTW, Electra often goes on about the well intentioned ignorance of laypeople. S/he has been asked to state his/her legal qualifications before, but s/he never does. I wonder why.

[pingit]

Pingit, I don't want to get into another stupid argument with Electra, but.....

That the sponsor is working and has a home is not enough. The sponsor needs to show that their income is sufficient to support their partner, and any children, and that the accommodation is suitable. This is why I say that the ECO's statement is not contradictory; it appears from the posts you made in other threads that you failed to do this.

As I said earlier, it seems that you and you wife do meet the maintenance and accommodation requirement, but failed to show that you do. So make sure you provide the evidence now and hopefully the refusal will be overturned without you having to go through the lengthy appeals process.

BTW, Electra often goes on about the well intentioned ignorance of laypeople. S/he has been asked to state his/her legal qualifications before, but s/he never does. I wonder why.

Thanks 7by7 .

I have carefully prepared everything.Written a proffesioal type letter, Got him 6 months bank statements from 2 different accounts, printed them and took them to the bank to stamp sign and date them, a detailed income expenditure sheet, photos of every room in my house with a detailed description, evidence showing my house is a businss expenditure, as is the car... deails of money I have sitting in a pension I used to run, told him Im about to start a life insurance policy for Oa and Ben, ( even tho I've no yet got the certificate ) , also called the council to check the house wont be over crowded when we live there, ( over crowding rules and stuff ), and will give him their letter when i get it.

Faxed it all this morning but it was out of office hours in bangkok, so was planning to do it again to the 2 fax numbers i've got. then I'll send him the lot by recorded delivery so he's got it all in hard copy. I put the APET number on every sheet. I just had a queiry about APET numbers. do they usually look like this xxxx/xx/xxxxxx/x or like this xxxxxx/xxxxxx/x as I seem to have it written both ways???

might be nit picking but dont want them to chuck the fax on a missing " / " .. if anyone knows I would really appreciate it !

good luck to us all ! after this is over lets get to the pub and have a few suds !!

[borodave]

[qoute]

Actually, Pingit you are spot on and any half decent lawyer would nail this flimsy refusal for what it is without too much difficulty.

7 by 7 means well but like many lay folk he hasn't a clue about what actually goes on although he may argue otherwise if only to maintain credibility as an all round good egg. That is OK in some cases but not necessarily in others and gives foundation to the maxim that ' a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing'.

Please give consideration to qualified legal representation. Remember, a stitch in time........

7by7 & Electra

I feel by following other topics from you both they is a glint of anger against one another

Please keep your personal grievances from this topic and focus on both just given advice to the person.

If you think a person is given wrong advice then just explain your advice and reason why you think wrong, and leave it up to the person you are given the advice to come to his/her own conclusion.

Electra I do feel that the answers that 7by7 gives are short and to the point and do not deserve criticizing in this way.

If you follow the other threads on this case you will find that the person has not put an application that a half decent lawyer would nail this flimsy.

1 bank statement, and obvious (only ECO and applicant has seen) other evidence missing I find not flimsy.

The applicant decides to blame the ECO for not chasing after him for the evidence that is clearly stated is needed.

Do you think it right (this is well known to be a busy period) all those other applications that may have put a good application should wait longer, or the ECO should reject it and give applicant a chance to submit it in an appeal and get on with his/her job.

The advice I would give is not to fax all the extra details, but to fill in the appeal form and submit any evidence he has to support a second chance.

Stop blaming the ECO and make sure you supply the right papers to answer what is on the rejection and wait.

Edited July 1, 2009 by borodave

[borodave]

[

I have carefully prepared everything.Written a proffesioal type letter, Got him 6 months bank statements from 2 different accounts, printed them and took them to the bank to stamp sign and date them, a detailed income expenditure sheet, photos of every room in my house with a detailed description, evidence showing my house is a businss expenditure, as is the car... deails of money I have sitting in a pension I used to run, told him Im about to start a life insurance policy for Oa and Ben, ( even tho I've no yet got the certificate ) , also called the council to check the house wont be over crowded when we live there, ( over crowding rules and stuff ), and will give him their letter when i get it.[/qoute]

Faxed it all this morning but it was out of office hours in bangkok, so was planning to do it again to the 2 fax numbers i've got. then I'll send him the lot by recorded delivery so he's got it all in hard copy. I put the APET number on every sheet. I just had a queiry about APET numbers. do they usually look like this xxxx/xx/xxxxxx/x or like this xxxxxx/xxxxxx/x as I seem to have it written both ways???

might be nit picking but dont want them to chuck the fax on a missing " / " .. if anyone knows I would really appreciate it !

good luck to us all ! after this is over lets get to the pub and have a few suds !!

Pingit you say your house as a business expenditure, is it a flat above your resturant ??

Why do you mention a car as i hope you do not live in it . . . . .

Bank statments, are these business account statements or personal as he says he is happy you have employment but needs to see personal records for you

Pension can only be used on retirement so is not required unless you are ready to retire . . . .

Insurance policy you have not got is no evidence of support now . . . .

your partner tried to claim taxcredits while she was on a tourist visa tells me your salary is low . . . . . .

This is your second chance and my advice is to get some professional help or you will be blaming the ECO again

Stick with facts regarding what he wants

The number is APET/date you applied/xxxxxxxxxx/x

Good luck and again get some PROFESSIONAL help

Edited July 1, 2009 by borodave

[7by7]

7by7 & Electra

I feel by following other topics from you both they is a glint of anger against one another

Please keep your personal grievances from this topic and focus on both just given advice to the person.

Point taken, consider my wrist slapped.

I have no personal feelings one way or another towards Electra. However, as you rightly say, a lot of what s/he posts shows that s/he has not read all the relevant information. This often causes him/her to post misinformed and misleading information, which, when it is coupled with the hints of professional knowledge s/he keeps dropping, can cause the people we are all trying to help to follow the wrong path.

That is the only problem I have with him/her.