G B P Warning For Brits; Possible Sterling Crisis !

caf · July 17, 2009

So whats Mohi-uddin at UBS's view then?- contrairian poo poo too I suspect.
Hung parliaments??, giv me a break

A fair point but I'm not sure it's apples and apples. Mr newbie wrote that, "U.K. unemployment claims rose the least in a year in June", unfortunately he missed the fact that very shortly after he wrote his piece the UK Government announced that latest figures showed an, "Increase of 281,000 in the three months to May takes jobless total to 2.38 million". Sooo, breaks are due where?

Out of the 2.38 million unemployed I wonder how many are actually British? We have had such a large influx of migrant EU workers who will also be included in these figures!!

The Migrant workers have soon caught on to the benefits system I know this first hand having worked for a company that employs them. Also they claim child benefit for their children that are not even living in this country.

Anothor point with the migrant workers is at the end of the UK tax year they like to claim back the tax they have paid over the 12 months of working, I don't understand how they get away with this and them claiming their tax back meens less money going back into the system.

I think this is also a contribution factor to the effects of the economy.

If migrants claim back tax it is because they have overpaid in the tax year. You could do the same. there are not different rules for migrants.

thaibeachlovers · July 17, 2009

So where does the money come from?
And where does the money come from for the enhanced education you are suggesting?

The armed services do not want conscripts. And even if they did where does the money come from to cover that cost?

I'm surprised you take a daydream seriously!

However;

If Britain accepted that they are no longer a "world power" and got out of all those overseas "adventures" they could probably afford it easily. Realising that a new Polaris system is a waste of money would be a step in the right direction. It would also help if they did something about the illegal immigrants, and stopped paying benefits and NHS treatment for people that shouldn't receive them. They found a few zillion easily enough to buy their mates in the banks out of the poo.

I never said "enhanced" education. Just finishing secondary school would be a good thing.

I also never said anything about the armed services. National service can take many forms. The only requirement would be that it instill discipline in the feral youth that today terrorises Britain ( they certainly scare the sh*t out of me when I'm unfortunate enough to be in their proximity ).

While you may not agree that Singapore is a top place to live, they make EVERYONE do national service, or at least they did when I lived there, and they don't seem to have problems with feral youth, nor do they have a problem with dole bludgers, and for a country that has no natural resources, everyone seems to have an excellent standard of living. Perhaps if Britain didn't have the old class attitudes that they know better than anyone else, they might be able to learn something from other countries.

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you are the one daydreaming.

The Uk (Britain) gave up thinking it was a world power years ago ( around Suez) We did not go into Iraq ourselves but piggy-backed on America. For the wrong reasons in my view as we had no evidence of wmd and there was no UN mandate. But I reached that conclusion - rightly or wrongly - without emotion.

By using the word "adventures" you are showing your emotions are overriding your thought processes.

Illegal immigrants by definition are outside the radar so do not receive benefits or NHS treatment. They may be working here illegally but that is another matter. They should be deported and the system should be tightened but to say they receive benefits is not only inaccurate it shows muddled thinking.

Bank bail outs and QE have been handled badly ( as the imf are now commenting) but i suspect you would have been complaining vociferously if they had not done so and your bank had collapsed with your savings. lost. Had you thought about that?

I said enhanced education not university or tertiary education. I was taking your point "a reasonable level of education, qualifying at some sort of occupation" - any enhancement from the present position which you clearly fiind inadequate would cost money.

I took national service to mean conscription which I think is what you meant otherwise you would have said community or social service. You also refer now to the singapore model which is of course conscription.

Of course I was daydreaming!

I said they should stop paying benefits and NHS treatments for persons that should not receive them, not illegal immigrants. As someone who works in the NHS I see people getting really expensive non emergency operations when they have not contributed one penny of NHI ( though they live legally in the UK ). That happens all the time, and that's just in my hospital!

My money would not have been lost, as all deposits under 40,000 quid are secured by the government. However, this could have been done without giving money to the very bankers that caused the problem. In fact, I think they should have let all the dodgy banks such as RBS go bankrupt.

Isn't one of the primary functions of government to educate the youth? Of course the present situation is unacceptable. I'd happily pay more tax if it meant properly educated citizens.

I said that the persons wanting the money would have to participate in some type of national ( or community ) service to qualify. Nothing mentioned about compulsion. If you want the money, you have to volunteer.

sanmiguellight · July 17, 2009

If PM Brown does not come up with a credible plan for reducing debt then (and I hate this phrase!) a 'run on the pound' could well happen.

So was Sterling dropping by over 30% against the dollar not a run on the pound and a similar amount V the EURO?

I think youre getting a bit carried away with it by predicting another run.

DarloKnight · July 17, 2009

So whats Mohi-uddin at UBS's view then?- contrairian poo poo too I suspect.
Hung parliaments??, giv me a break

A fair point but I'm not sure it's apples and apples. Mr newbie wrote that, "U.K. unemployment claims rose the least in a year in June", unfortunately he missed the fact that very shortly after he wrote his piece the UK Government announced that latest figures showed an, "Increase of 281,000 in the three months to May takes jobless total to 2.38 million". Sooo, breaks are due where?

Out of the 2.38 million unemployed I wonder how many are actually British? We have had such a large influx of migrant EU workers who will also be included in these figures!!

The Migrant workers have soon caught on to the benefits system I know this first hand having worked for a company that employs them. Also they claim child benefit for their children that are not even living in this country.

Anothor point with the migrant workers is at the end of the UK tax year they like to claim back the tax they have paid over the 12 months of working, I don't understand how they get away with this and them claiming their tax back meens less money going back into the system.

I think this is also a contribution factor to the effects of the economy.

If migrants claim back tax it is because they have overpaid in the tax year. You could do the same. there are not different rules for migrants.

Think you mis understood what I meant they have NOT over paid in tax they just claim back all the tax they have paid, I know they have not overpaid in the tax they have earned as I do payroll and have been doing it for long enough to know what tax to deduct, they just do not want to pay it.

phutoie2 · July 18, 2009

If PM Brown does not come up with a credible plan for reducing debt then (and I hate this phrase!) a 'run on the pound' could well happen.

So was Sterling dropping by over 30% against the dollar not a run on the pound and a similar amount V the EURO?

I think youre getting a bit carried away with it by predicting another run.

Not my words!! - 'Daily Torygraph'.

Spee · July 18, 2009

How to save the UK economy.
There are 20M people in the labour force over 50. Give these people 1 Million pound to take early retirement. Out of that money they must:

1 Have a house built. This has builders gainfully employed

2 Buy a British built car, again people gainfully employed

3 1 Weeks holiday in the Uk

4 Spend 50K on Booze or tobacco. This puts money into the treasury.

Problem solved.

Excellent idea. Just one small problem - where does the £20 trillion come from to pay for this ??

Sounds like our not so great Vice Prez Joe Biden, who in a speech Thursday said ...

‘“Now, people when I say that look at me and say, ‘What are you talking about, Joe? You’re telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?’” Biden said. “The answer is yes, that's what I’m telling you.”

What a <deleted>' moron!

It would be okay if he was the only kooky one. But he's considered mainstream, middle of the road.

bungy007 · July 19, 2009

4 Reasons Why the British Pound Is Set To Soar Again!
By: Sean Hyman Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:38 PM

Today, I want to share with you, four crucial reasons why I believe that the British pound is about to soar once again vs. the U.S. dollar.

Even though the pound (GBP) has been stuck in a range bound pattern for a month and a half now, things are about to change.

Here's why:

1. The U.K. "unemployment claims" figures have been headed down ever since the huge spike up in March. In fact, the latest numbers came out this morning. What did it show? There was a positive revision (improvement) in the previous month's unemployment numbers to 30.8K. The latest numbers were expected to come in at 41.4K but ended up coming in at a much lower 23.8K. Lower unemployment claims is a bullish sign for their economy and therefore, for their currency as well.

Source: iStockAnalyst http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewa...ticleid/3350478

LaoPo

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Britain's grim outlook for jobs

Out of work and out of luck

Jun 4th 2009

From The Economist print edition

Unemployment will carry on rising long after the recession ends

THERE were fresh signs this week that the economic outlook may be brightening. Manufacturing and construction fell again in May but they are no longer plunging, according to the latest surveys of purchasing managers. The finding that the big services sector expanded last month was especially encouraging.

But even if the economy does turn up before too long, the prospects for the jobless still look grim. So far employment has fallen by 1% since it peaked at 29.5m in the second quarter of 2008. That is about the same drop as at a similar stage in the economic downturn of the early 1980s, and a bit less than the 1.5% decline in the early 1990s. Employment carried on falling long after those two recessions had ended, to a trough more than 6% lower than the preceding peak (see chart 1).

That augurs ill for job prospects today. The ranks of the unemployed have already swollen to 2.2m, the largest since 1996. In the early 1980s the jobless rate rose from 5.5% of the labour force before the recession to 11.9% three years after it had ended. A decade later it increased from 6.9% to 10.6% six months after a sustained recovery had started. These precedents suggest that the unemployment rate, which has already gone up from 5.4% in spring 2008 to 7.1%, will carry on rising and end a lot higher, almost certainly above 10%.

If past experience points to a bleak outlook for jobs, so too does the sheer scale of this downturn. Output has already dropped by more than 4% over the past year, more than the 2.5% peak-to-trough fall in the early 1990s and approaching the 4.6% decline in the early 1980s. With a further contraction in GDP still likely despite the growing economic optimism, this recession looks set to deliver an even bigger blow to employment than the previous two. Moreover, unemployment tends to rise especially steeply as a result of recessions linked to financial crises, according to recent research from the IMF.

Even so there are some reasons to hope for a better outcome this time. For a decade or more, the labour market has been working better than before. The burden of regulation has increased under Labour, but the greater flexibility brought about by Margaret Thatcher’s curbs on union power has not been thrown away. The woeful experience of the 1980s, when unemployment kept on rising for so long, is unlikely to recur. The labour market should bounce back more readily in Britain than in other big European economies such as Germany and France, says John Philpott, chief economist at the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development.

That flexibility should not be exaggerated, however. True, employers are pushing through measures like pay freezes that were once unthinkable, and this should reduce job losses. Yet this is less remarkable than it may seem: retail prices are falling anyway, and real earnings also dropped at the outset of the previous two recessions. Nor have firms been more willing to retain staff on shorter hours than in the past. Falls in hours worked are quite close to those at a similar point in the earlier downturns.

The limited gains from flexibility suggest that there is still much pain to come. The main casualties are already apparent. Even in good times youngsters struggle to get a foothold in the labour market. That makes them especially vulnerable now that employers are shedding staff. The careers of young people who are unemployed for a year or more are likely to be permanently scarred, says Paul Gregg, an economist at Bristol University.

An ominous pattern is beginning to emerge. The employment rate of those aged 18-24 fell by 3.9 percentage points in the year to the first quarter of 2009. By contrast, it declined by only 1.5 points among 25-34 year-olds and by 0.4 points for older people up to the state-pension age. The jobless rate among 18-24-year-olds, just under 10% in late 2003, has jumped to 16%, a level reached in the early 1990s only after the recession had ended (see chart 2).

The government has introduced new policies to help young people and to arrest a drift into long-term unemployment. Since April employers have been eligible for a subsidy of £1,000 if they recruit someone who has been out of work for at least six months. And from January 2010 any young person who has been jobless for a year or more will be guaranteed a job or training assignment. Jobcentre Plus, the first port of call for the newly unemployed, has been given more resources (see <A href="http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13788549">article).

But even with this extra support, labour-market portents still look grim. Economic confidence may be slowly returning, but it will take a lot longer for employment to recover.

Chaps, I have to say that this doesn't look to good and really can't help the pound to bounce back. don't get me wrong, I'm still a supporter of the home country but it looks like chickens are finally coming home to roost. Artificially low interest rates have spurred growth in house sales but this will only bring catastrophy when they return to normal levels over the course of a 25 year mortgage - somewhere around 10% appears to be the trend. Tremendous unemployment levels that will be a major drain on near non-existant national resources. The IMF stating their dire warnings on our global debt burden. It's not going to be pretty for a long long time

bungy007 · July 19, 2009

Properties have not been bought with borrowing at "abnormally" low interest rates.

Yes they were, Greenspan said interest rates were kept low to keep the economy moving, same rules applied in the UK.

No they were not.

Economic fundamentals (and decent housekeeping. mainly control of inflation) kept interest rates 'low' (technical term, low is only relative to 'high').

Only in the last 6 months have we seen rates articially low. Mortgage borrowers have been coming of fixed rate deals and simply dropping onto the lenders Standard Variable Rate which have invariable resulted in a lower rate a[[lying to their borrowing.

There is nothing "abnormal" about sub 10% rates - these have been a feature of the last 15+ years. As far as buying property is concerned relatively long-term (10 years+) fixed rates of 5%-6% were available.

I believe that short-term fixed rates are not to anyone's advantage. A headline rate of, say, 3.99% but with hefty fees only distorts the picture. Buying a property should not be a short-term project - it should be viewed as a long-term investment.

'When we [the MPC] sat around the table in November talking about making a 150 point rate cut [from

4.5% to 3%

] we all sat and looked at each other and said it's fine doing this now - it's a popular decision. But it will be a lot harder doing it on the way up. It's important we are clear that that's what we are prepared to do.'

In this scenario, the Bank could increase rates from 0.5% to, say 2% - 150 points. That would increase the repayments on an typical SVR mortgage of £150,000 from £717 to £842 a month - a rise of £125. [Do your own calculation]. Dale and his colleagues want to shock us with this nightmare scenario - they want us to acclimatise so when/if rates do start to rise it will be slightly more digestible.

Spencer Dale is at least honest and knows what needs to be done and the sooner the better. Lets not forget that there are 6 times MORE savers than borrowers and the only help thats been given is to those who were silly and reckless and took out too big a mortgage. Your views in the last paragraph seem to overlook that the savers will, without doubt, reek their revenge at the ballot box. In any case I think Building Societies will sooner rather than later break ranks and raise mortgage rates in order to attract the savers they need. What price the MPC then.

Posted by: paul howgate | March 27, 2009 at 04:21 PM

Savers, are just like the Money Lenders from Biblical times, all me, me. They are not worrying about the wolf at the door, they just want more money.

I am going to be clear about this. 1) People are losing their jobs, Families are losing their homes, People can;t sleep at night 2) In my view savers can get stuffed !

Posted by: John Spindler | March 27, 2009 at 09:39 PM

I agree Paul Howgate. What you suggest is already starting to occur; a number of savings accounts are beginning to be offered at higher rates (3.46% for instant access against base rate of 0.5%), because institutions need savers' funds. What savy savers are now doing as their fixed rate bonds mature, is to put their money temporarily in those, awaiting interest rates rising again within the next 6 months. They will not commit to any further fixed rate bonds at the current low rates.

Banks and BSs then do not have the security of long term deposits which they need so expect more to break ranks. The MPC have increasingly lost control due to being unfit for purpose.

Posted by: Drf | March 28, 2009 at 01:09 PM

"Savers can get stuffed" eh Paul Howgate? It is because of irresponsible borrowing, by individuals as well as banks, that has led us to this point. Savers are not the ones who were leading us down this road, borrowers are. They are the ones who are all "me me me" - they're so desperate to have things NOW that instead of saving for things they borrow and then complain when they can't pay the loan back.

And now the irresponsible are being rewarded while the responsible are being punished.

But that's ok Paul, you can't insult us much more than the government and the BoE already have.

Posted by: Glenn Little | March 30, 2009 at 11:57 AM

I agree with paul howgate. the savers label everyone with a big mortgage as "irresponsible". Its the saver mostly baby boomers and pensioners who have the best pension schemes...house prices trebled...and the ease of the 50's and 60's that have left young working people with no security. Then they go and buy houses from us to "rent back" pure greed ...you live on your pension grandad and spend your savings unless you think youll live to 150!

Posted by: john | March 30, 2009 at 01:22 PM

Paul Howgate did not post the 'savers can get stuffed !' comment it was John Spindler who then seems to back himself up on March 30, 01:22.

People are losing jobs, homes even with these low interest rates do you not even consider they could be part of the problem. The issue is the lack of lending not the rate at which money is lent. More than ever banks rely on savers to raise funds, you may regret it if they decide to stuff the savers as the savers money will go elsewhere.

Posted by: d_pono | April 01, 2009 at 10:09 AM

The " Holy Savers" had a 15 year bull mkt, savings bonds and 1 year fixes at 8 and 10 % which was an ubsustainable and feckless level of return, most as has been said had the benefit of 200 % plus rises in their house values, low interest rates on their mortgages leading to them being by pure luck alone in the happy situation of zero liabilities, well funded pension pots and an outlook that compared to the generations either side of them appears gold plated.

They are of course the Baby Boomers/Thatchermen who still believe that they are entitled to ALL of the good times, but NONE of the downside.

Let them work out HOW they became "Holy Savers" before they continue thier whinging about their current returns.

Nobody gets "Upside" only, just be thankful you are where you are and not losing your house,employment and hope with 2 young kids and a wife to support.

Posted by: Paul Arkle | April 01, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Paul Arkle, I would be interested where you seen a 10% return on savings, in 2008 when we seen the odd 7% account (so only 5.6 net). Borrowers forget they are borrowing someones hard earned savings. Many savers are the young people who were priced out of the housing market, so are we expected to accept high tax bills and lend to you for free! live in the real world, you borrowed it, pay up. I can just withdraw my savings and then no-one can borrow them - what can you do about your huge debts?

Posted by: Colin | April 25, 2009 at 01:25 PM

The market will sort things out, if the government will only stop meddling with property price levels to keep them artificially high. No one wants people to 'lose their homes' - but many borrowed unsustainably high amounts they could never have serviced, in order to make a fast profit. Now they want the taxpayer to fund the difference between what they could have afforded and what they've taken on: and the banks have to pay for the added debt as they aren't allowed to repossess even the most fraudulent mortgage applicant. This isn't a fight between savers and borrowers, but between the reckless over-borrowers and the borrowers who borrowed within their realistic limits, who - with savers - are now subsidising the others. Mortgage levels haven't been this low for ages, for heaven's sake. What more do homeowners want? People still opaid their mortgages when interst rates went up to 14%.

Posted by: JohnAnt | April 27, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Something no one seems to mention is the fact that only a third of homeowner/borrowers are getting the benefit of the lower mortgage interest rate. Others already committed to fixed rate mortgages have not seen the rates come down.

Also the would be house buyers are unable to buy because their saving for a deposit is ever lengthening due to the low savings interest rate and the difficulty in getting the various establishments to give them a loan.

So, praise the savers who are keeping their money with these establishments in order for it to be loaned out to those who need it. The banks are not very forthcoming with the money they have received to bail them out of the losses THEY have made. Lay the blame where it is due.

Posted by: CAB | May 04, 2009 at 12:28 AM

God bless them that lowered the interest rates all round the world. For too long now people who worked only for their own roof over their heads and food to eat are able to save a little of their wages instead of giving all to greedy selfish borrowers in unwarranted high interest rates. God bless this recession. I AND MY THREE GROWN UP DAUGHTERS ARE SAVING 2000 POUNDS PER MONTH COLLECTIVELY IN MORTGAGE PAYMENTS.And long may this recession live on.

Posted by: Costas stavrinou | May 06, 2009 at 09:54 AM

We are all concerned with what the rates will do in the future but lets put things in perspective:- if you have money to save at the moment then you are lucky! If you are saving money on the interest rates at the moment then you are lucky! We all blame each other but it's a pendulum! Are savers really trying to tell me that they have never borrowed money in their lifetime? And had they still got lending tell me would they not want the saving of the interest rates in this current market? Lets just all be grateful if we have houses, jobs or money to live at the moment! In time the pendulum will swing the other way and the benefits will be passed onto the savers once again in due cause - lets just hope that everyone will benefit from the future movements of the governments in the years to come!

Posted by: Rob | May 27, 2009 at 02:57 PM

If this and previous Govts gave a decent pension ( Wasnt it Thatcher who removed the link between pensions and earnings ?) we wouldn't have to rely on interest from our savings to have a resonable retirement without scrimping and doing without and the money that is tied up to recieve this interest would be freed up. I would love to spend my savings but realise the consequences of having to rely on a meagre state income for the rest of my life.

I was never unemployed, have never claimed benefit and my state pension was earned not given.

Posted by: redtoon1892 | June 04, 2009 at 03:28 PM

Some interesting points made and raised. Given that interest rates are virtually at 0% it is not a case of if they will be raised but a case of when. Currently, new buyers are taking out loans to raise the deposit for their houses- in the region of 32,000 pounds. These loasn are not at the preferential mortgage rate of interest but far higher. When interest rates do go North, and they will at some point in the future, you can bet your bottom dollar that many will find it difficult to meet their monthly payments. It will not be pretty and I can only hope the government of the day will do all they can to cushion the blow in someway rather than force people out of their homes and onto the streets.

thaibeachlovers · July 20, 2009

Savers, are just like the Money Lenders from Biblical times, all me, me. They are not worrying about the wolf at the door, they just want more money.

I am going to be clear about this. 1) People are losing their jobs, Families are losing their homes, People can;t sleep at night 2) In my view savers can get stuffed !

Posted by: John Spindler | March 27, 2009 at 09:39 PM

"Savers can get stuffed" eh Paul Howgate? It is because of irresponsible borrowing, by individuals as well as banks, that has led us to this point. Savers are not the ones who were leading us down this road, borrowers are. They are the ones who are all "me me me" - they're so desperate to have things NOW that instead of saving for things they borrow and then complain when they can't pay the loan back.

And now the irresponsible are being rewarded while the responsible are being punished.

But that's ok Paul, you can't insult us much more than the government and the BoE already have.

Posted by: Glenn Little | March 30, 2009 at 11:57 AM

I agree with paul howgate. the savers label everyone with a big mortgage as "irresponsible". Its the saver mostly baby boomers and pensioners who have the best pension schemes...house prices trebled...and the ease of the 50's and 60's that have left young working people with no security. Then they go and buy houses from us to "rent back" pure greed ...you live on your pension grandad and spend your savings unless you think youll live to 150!

Posted by: john | March 30, 2009 at 01:22 PM

Paul Howgate did not post the 'savers can get stuffed !' comment it was John Spindler who then seems to back himself up on March 30, 01:22.

People are losing jobs, homes even with these low interest rates do you not even consider they could be part of the problem. The issue is the lack of lending not the rate at which money is lent. More than ever banks rely on savers to raise funds, you may regret it if they decide to stuff the savers as the savers money will go elsewhere.

Posted by: d_pono | April 01, 2009 at 10:09 AM

The " Holy Savers" had a 15 year bull mkt, savings bonds and 1 year fixes at 8 and 10 % which was an ubsustainable and feckless level of return, most as has been said had the benefit of 200 % plus rises in their house values, low interest rates on their mortgages leading to them being by pure luck alone in the happy situation of zero liabilities, well funded pension pots and an outlook that compared to the generations either side of them appears gold plated.

They are of course the Baby Boomers/Thatchermen who still believe that they are entitled to ALL of the good times, but NONE of the downside.

Let them work out HOW they became "Holy Savers" before they continue thier whinging about their current returns.

Nobody gets "Upside" only, just be thankful you are where you are and not losing your house,employment and hope with 2 young kids and a wife to support.

Posted by: Paul Arkle | April 01, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Paul Arkle, I would be interested where you seen a 10% return on savings, in 2008 when we seen the odd 7% account (so only 5.6 net). Borrowers forget they are borrowing someones hard earned savings. Many savers are the young people who were priced out of the housing market, so are we expected to accept high tax bills and lend to you for free! live in the real world, you borrowed it, pay up. I can just withdraw my savings and then no-one can borrow them - what can you do about your huge debts?

Posted by: Colin | April 25, 2009 at 01:25 PM

The market will sort things out, if the government will only stop meddling with property price levels to keep them artificially high. No one wants people to 'lose their homes' - but many borrowed unsustainably high amounts they could never have serviced, in order to make a fast profit. Now they want the taxpayer to fund the difference between what they could have afforded and what they've taken on: and the banks have to pay for the added debt as they aren't allowed to repossess even the most fraudulent mortgage applicant. This isn't a fight between savers and borrowers, but between the reckless over-borrowers and the borrowers who borrowed within their realistic limits, who - with savers - are now subsidising the others. Mortgage levels haven't been this low for ages, for heaven's sake. What more do homeowners want? People still opaid their mortgages when interst rates went up to 14%.

Posted by: JohnAnt | April 27, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Something no one seems to mention is the fact that only a third of homeowner/borrowers are getting the benefit of the lower mortgage interest rate. Others already committed to fixed rate mortgages have not seen the rates come down.

Also the would be house buyers are unable to buy because their saving for a deposit is ever lengthening due to the low savings interest rate and the difficulty in getting the various establishments to give them a loan.

So, praise the savers who are keeping their money with these establishments in order for it to be loaned out to those who need it. The banks are not very forthcoming with the money they have received to bail them out of the losses THEY have made. Lay the blame where it is due.

Posted by: CAB | May 04, 2009 at 12:28 AM

God bless them that lowered the interest rates all round the world. For too long now people who worked only for their own roof over their heads and food to eat are able to save a little of their wages instead of giving all to greedy selfish borrowers in unwarranted high interest rates. God bless this recession. I AND MY THREE GROWN UP DAUGHTERS ARE SAVING 2000 POUNDS PER MONTH COLLECTIVELY IN MORTGAGE PAYMENTS.And long may this recession live on.

Posted by: Costas stavrinou | May 06, 2009 at 09:54 AM

We are all concerned with what the rates will do in the future but lets put things in perspective:- if you have money to save at the moment then you are lucky! If you are saving money on the interest rates at the moment then you are lucky! We all blame each other but it's a pendulum! Are savers really trying to tell me that they have never borrowed money in their lifetime? And had they still got lending tell me would they not want the saving of the interest rates in this current market? Lets just all be grateful if we have houses, jobs or money to live at the moment! In time the pendulum will swing the other way and the benefits will be passed onto the savers once again in due cause - lets just hope that everyone will benefit from the future movements of the governments in the years to come!

Posted by: Rob | May 27, 2009 at 02:57 PM

If this and previous Govts gave a decent pension ( Wasnt it Thatcher who removed the link between pensions and earnings ?) we wouldn't have to rely on interest from our savings to have a resonable retirement without scrimping and doing without and the money that is tied up to recieve this interest would be freed up. I would love to spend my savings but realise the consequences of having to rely on a meagre state income for the rest of my life.

I was never unemployed, have never claimed benefit and my state pension was earned not given.

Posted by: redtoon1892 | June 04, 2009 at 03:28 PM

Some interesting points made and raised. Given that interest rates are virtually at 0% it is not a case of if they will be raised but a case of when. Currently, new buyers are taking out loans to raise the deposit for their houses- in the region of 32,000 pounds. These loasn are not at the preferential mortgage rate of interest but far higher. When interest rates do go North, and they will at some point in the future, you can bet your bottom dollar that many will find it difficult to meet their monthly payments. It will not be pretty and I can only hope the government of the day will do all they can to cushion the blow in someway rather than force people out of their homes and onto the streets.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intersting points above.

However, to the poster who said savers can get stuffed, you should ask where the funds people borrow come from ( savers )!

I would also like to say that if someone "borrows" beyond their ability to pay, they have no one to blame but themselves for their problems.

I was able to see that the "bubble" was unsustainable, so everyone else should have been able to see it too.

It all comes down to GREED, and now the greedy people are getting their just desserts ( except for the filthy banker scum who have been saved by their "comrades", our so called government ).

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.

I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

Edited July 20, 2009 by thaibeachlovers

Chaimai · July 20, 2009

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.
I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

bungy007 · July 20, 2009

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.
I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

Yes, its a quandry as you are not rewarded by saving your hard earned money yet new home buyers are expected to save a deposit which runs into 10s of 000s of pounds in order to get onto the housing ladder. When this just becomes impossible they start to borrow the deposit (which they are doing now)! This lack of foresight on bringing new blood to the housing market is fueling its own crisis in the waiting - it looks like bleak times ahead are just lining up Doesn't look good for the GBP

robint · July 20, 2009

As i muddle through in wet windy uk, i am astonished at the gross incompetence of our so called democratic parliamentary system, can you believe that the gov is about to break for its summer recess for 82 days and wont be available for any serious work sorting out uk's appaling mess till next October.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...-day-break.html

the article points out that mps will only have sat for 128 out of 365 days

Crisis????????

It is also perfectly obvious that Browns balls up Britain is being turned into a massive poison pill for the next inevitable Conservative Governement who will be faced with having to make massive spending cuts and raise taxes substantially, yet of course both side vehemntly deny any such possibility.

I have no faith in the Conservatives anymore than Labour, they are both as morally corrupt and will do nothing to clean up our sordid parliament. I dont see a way out short of a total crash and soup queues

Where would you put your cash?

sanmiguellight · July 20, 2009

As i muddle through in wet windy uk, i am astonished at the gross incompetence of our so called democratic parliamentary system, can you believe that the gov is about to break for its summer recess for 82 days and wont be available for any serious work sorting out uk's appaling mess till next October.

Another way you can look at it it that its a good thing these incompetent corrupt fools cant meddle with anything for this long to make things worse, worrying thing is theyll be using this time to figure out what they can raise taxes on to make sure we dont get out of the mess anytime soon!

This country is a success inspite of government.

roamer · July 20, 2009

"It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!"

Well thats what Oliver Cromwell had to say in his dissolution of parliament nearly 400 years ago....strange how it still applies today, in the Uk & in LOS. Time moves on, "sordid prostitutes" do not.

Edited July 20, 2009 by roamer

thaibeachlovers · July 21, 2009

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.
I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

I was going to make a serious reply to your frivolous reply, but you're not worth it!

I will never understand why some people seem to enjoy putting down the less fortunate.

Chaimai · July 21, 2009

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.
I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

I was going to make a serious reply to your frivolous reply, but you're not worth it!

I will never understand why some people seem to enjoy putting down the less fortunate.

It wasn't frivolous - I was genuinely bored.

I do not attempt to put down the less fortunate - I have been there. What bores me is a bleeding hearts sob story. I don't give a toss whether someone smokes - doesn't, drinks - doesn't, drives - doesn't. Everybody has a story and their own cross to bear - an open forum is the not the place to bleat about your lot. Get on with your own life and good luck with making of it, what you can.

thaibeachlovers · July 22, 2009

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.
I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

I was going to make a serious reply to your frivolous reply, but you're not worth it!

I will never understand why some people seem to enjoy putting down the less fortunate.

It wasn't frivolous - I was genuinely bored.

I do not attempt to put down the less fortunate - I have been there. What bores me is a bleeding hearts sob story. I don't give a toss whether someone smokes - doesn't, drinks - doesn't, drives - doesn't. Everybody has a story and their own cross to bear - an open forum is the not the place to bleat about your lot. Get on with your own life and good luck with making of it, what you can.

OK, so you were bored, and thought you'd put me down with the violin icon, to make your day more exciting- whatever turns you on. If I'm bored by a post, I just move on, rather than mock someone of whom I know nothing.

You obviously completely missed the point I was trying to make in response to the poster who was denigrating savers, and some of the respondents who were implying savers obtained their money by having bought property at a fortuitous time, which is that many people save only by making sacrifices, while others get into excessive debt and then go crying for help when things go bad and they lose everything.

I get really PO when the government takes my hard earned tax money to bail out greedy wasters, while I get punished by losing money due to inflation while my savings make nil interest.

LaoPo · July 24, 2009

Pound Declines as Economy Contracts Twice as Much as Forecast

By Lukanyo Mnyanda

July 24 (Bloomberg) -- The pound fell the most in seven weeks against the euro after a report showed the U.K. economy shrank more than twice as much as economists forecast.

The currency also dropped versus the dollar, paring a second straight weekly advance, as Britain’s Office for National Statistics said gross domestic product contracted 0.8 percent in the first quarter, more than the 0.3 percent median forecast of 32 economists in a Bloomberg survey. The pound gained earlier after Bank of England policy maker Andrew Sentance said there may be “evidence of positive growth in the second half.”

“The numbers were disappointing, they suggest that the economy is still on an unstable footing and that hit the pound,” said Lee Hardman, a foreign-exchange strategist in London at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. “There’s a lot of optimism built into the pound’s valuation.”

The pound weakened to 86.61 pence per euro as of 12:49 a.m. in London, from 85.82 pence yesterday, and traded at 86.66 pence earlier for the biggest drop since June 4 based on closing prices. It was at $1.6455, from $1.6479 yesterday, after earlier rising to $1.6542, and depreciated to 156.08 yen, from 154.42.

The U.K. economy shrank 5.6 percent from a year earlier, the most since records began in 1955, the statistics office said. The pound may trade between $1.50 and $1.55 in 12 months, according to Hardman. The median of 31 strategists’ and economists’ forecasts compiled by Bloomberg is for the currency to end of the second quarter of 2010 at $1.63.

Gilts Pare Decline

Gilts pared losses that pushed the 10-year yield to the highest level in almost six weeks.

The yield on the 4.5 percent security due March 2019 rose less than 1 basis point to 3.98 percent, after earlier climbing to 4.01 percent, the highest level since June 11. The price declined 0.06, or 60 pence per 1,000-pound face amount, to 104.16. The two-year note yield decreased 1 basis point to 1.34 percent, up 17 basis points in the week.

“Any hopes that we were going to see an indication that the U.K. was getting back to positive growth are going to be dashed,” John Wraith, head of sterling rate product development at RBC Capital Markets in London, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. “It throws more confusion into some of the announcements by the Bank of England.”

Gilts tumbled yesterday, pushing the 10-year yield up by the most since July 9, after Sentance signaled the central bank may pause the bond-purchase program begun in March to cut borrowing costs and stoke growth. The comments came as the government sold 5 billion pounds ($8.26 billion) of 2042 inflation-linked bonds.

Sentence ‘Hints’

The bank will “make a judgment about whether we need to add further to that stimulus” once the new quarterly predictions are available, Sentance said in an interview.

“What Sentence said hints to the fact that quantitative easing might be coming to a pause,” said Jason Simpson, a U.K. interest-rate strategist at Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc in London. “We’ve also seen a risk rally with equities pushing higher, and that’s a challenge for bond markets.”

Gilts have lost investors 4.2 percent this year, compared with 0.1 percent by German government securities, according to Merrill Lynch & Co’s U.K. Gilts and German Federal Governments index.

The FTSE 100 Index added 0.6 percent today, heading for a second week of gains.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...d=awWZo72xzwBE#

LaoPo

mommysboy · July 24, 2009

Pound Declines as Economy Contracts Twice as Much as Forecast
By Lukanyo Mnyanda

July 24 (Bloomberg) -- The pound fell the most in seven weeks against the euro after a report showed the U.K. economy shrank more than twice as much as economists forecast.

The currency also dropped versus the dollar, paring a second straight weekly advance, as Britain's Office for National Statistics said gross domestic product contracted 0.8 percent in the first quarter, more than the 0.3 percent median forecast of 32 economists in a Bloomberg survey. The pound gained earlier after Bank of England policy maker Andrew Sentance said there may be "evidence of positive growth in the second half."

"The numbers were disappointing, they suggest that the economy is still on an unstable footing and that hit the pound," said Lee Hardman, a foreign-exchange strategist in London at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. "There's a lot of optimism built into the pound's valuation."

The pound weakened to 86.61 pence per euro as of 12:49 a.m. in London, from 85.82 pence yesterday, and traded at 86.66 pence earlier for the biggest drop since June 4 based on closing prices. It was at $1.6455, from $1.6479 yesterday, after earlier rising to $1.6542, and depreciated to 156.08 yen, from 154.42.

The U.K. economy shrank 5.6 percent from a year earlier, the most since records began in 1955, the statistics office said. The pound may trade between $1.50 and $1.55 in 12 months, according to Hardman. The median of 31 strategists' and economists' forecasts compiled by Bloomberg is for the currency to end of the second quarter of 2010 at $1.63.

Gilts Pare Decline

Gilts pared losses that pushed the 10-year yield to the highest level in almost six weeks.

The yield on the 4.5 percent security due March 2019 rose less than 1 basis point to 3.98 percent, after earlier climbing to 4.01 percent, the highest level since June 11. The price declined 0.06, or 60 pence per 1,000-pound face amount, to 104.16. The two-year note yield decreased 1 basis point to 1.34 percent, up 17 basis points in the week.

"Any hopes that we were going to see an indication that the U.K. was getting back to positive growth are going to be dashed," John Wraith, head of sterling rate product development at RBC Capital Markets in London, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. "It throws more confusion into some of the announcements by the Bank of England."

Gilts tumbled yesterday, pushing the 10-year yield up by the most since July 9, after Sentance signaled the central bank may pause the bond-purchase program begun in March to cut borrowing costs and stoke growth. The comments came as the government sold 5 billion pounds ($8.26 billion) of 2042 inflation-linked bonds.

Sentence 'Hints'

The bank will "make a judgment about whether we need to add further to that stimulus" once the new quarterly predictions are available, Sentance said in an interview.

"What Sentence said hints to the fact that quantitative easing might be coming to a pause," said Jason Simpson, a U.K. interest-rate strategist at Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc in London. "We've also seen a risk rally with equities pushing higher, and that's a challenge for bond markets."

Gilts have lost investors 4.2 percent this year, compared with 0.1 percent by German government securities, according to Merrill Lynch & Co's U.K. Gilts and German Federal Governments index.

The FTSE 100 Index added 0.6 percent today, heading for a second week of gains.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...d=awWZo72xzwBE#

LaoPo

But again it's pretty much in line with everywhere else, this is not exclusive to the UK.

The only real threat is the UK public debt burden. So it's really about future public spending and rising taxes.

The biggest problem is the number of people, be they city bods or TV posters who assume there will be a quick return to boom times.

There won't, and while your waiting, reflect on the following words and phrases: prudence, thrift, borrowing within your means, mending and making do, and Father Xmas does not exist.

ParadiseLost · July 24, 2009

Perhaps this is off-topic, but as many of the discussions relate to the general demise of the UK I would like to offer my 2 baht worth.

The UK (and most of the developed countries) is sitting on a time bomb, in the form of youth. I moved to South Africa in the 1970's as a 10 year old, right in the height of apartheid so I have experienced the damage caused when an oppressive government destroys its own peoples hope and ambitions.

While apartheid was based in race, there is just such a situation existing in UK today based in social standing.

I visited oop north quite a bit as my kids lived there, and I was horrified that youths living there are mainly biding time until they are allowed legal access to pubs, using much stronger substances to get them through the frustrating period. Workers are definitely in the minority, and even they are barely scraping through. If the social system implodes, these people are left with no industry, agricultural or manufacturing to become gainfully employed so what do they do?

Belfast was recently the scene of ugly racist attacks, so I guess the easy targets will be anyone who looks or talks foreign. Eventually though, when all the foreigners are no more, they will realise that it is their government that allowed a pig trough to develop where once there was a respectable and honorable financial system in place. That goes the same for the education system. Oh yes, the outdated NHS where you die waiting for an appointment. I forgot the manufacturing - oh and the railways...

Perhaps letting people hold on to power into their 60s is not the way?

mommysboy · July 24, 2009

Perhaps this is off-topic, but as many of the discussions relate to the general demise of the UK I would like to offer my 2 baht worth.
The UK (and most of the developed countries) is sitting on a time bomb, in the form of youth. I moved to South Africa in the 1970's as a 10 year old, right in the height of apartheid so I have experienced the damage caused when an oppressive government destroys its own peoples hope and ambitions.

While apartheid was based in race, there is just such a situation existing in UK today based in social standing.

I visited oop north quite a bit as my kids lived there, and I was horrified that youths living there are mainly biding time until they are allowed legal access to pubs, using much stronger substances to get them through the frustrating period. Workers are definitely in the minority, and even they are barely scraping through. If the social system implodes, these people are left with no industry, agricultural or manufacturing to become gainfully employed so what do they do?

Belfast was recently the scene of ugly racist attacks, so I guess the easy targets will be anyone who looks or talks foreign. Eventually though, when all the foreigners are no more, they will realise that it is their government that allowed a pig trough to develop where once there was a respectable and honorable financial system in place. That goes the same for the education system. Oh yes, the outdated NHS where you die waiting for an appointment. I forgot the manufacturing - oh and the railways...

Perhaps letting people hold on to power into their 60s is not the way?

Regarding the general demise of the UK, UK stopped being the world superpower 50 years ago.

After the dismal 70's it consolidated as the 5th wealtiest nation.

And seems to be holding that spot.

If on the other hand you are talking about the worldwide degradation of humanity by consumerism. Well despite being a small businessman with a lust for money, I agree: it's all got too much.

Chaimai · July 24, 2009

OK, so you were bored, and thought you'd put me down with the violin icon, to make your day more exciting- whatever turns you on. If I'm bored by a post, I just move on, rather than mock someone of whom I know nothing.
You obviously completely missed the point I was trying to make in response to the poster who was denigrating savers, and some of the respondents who were implying savers obtained their money by having bought property at a fortuitous time, which is that many people save only by making sacrifices, while others get into excessive debt and then go crying for help when things go bad and they lose everything.

I get really PO when the government takes my hard earned tax money to bail out greedy wasters, while I get punished by losing money due to inflation while my savings make nil interest.

Let's get a few things clear:-

1. You did not make the point (at least to me) that you were trying to make with your post.

2. I was bored by what I considered to be a self-pitying ramble.

3. The above is a further ramble that does not make the point clear - at least to me (I accept that I may or may not be partly to blame in that). MY point is that I did not understand the point you were trying to make.

4. I apologise if I have caused any personal offence - it was not not my intention to 'mock' you. I respect some of your other posts and it seems clear that you are a genuine guy trying to do the best you can for yourself and your family. The post that bored me made you out to be a bit pathetic and I doubt that is a fair reflection of you as a person.

5. I have been down in places that I doubt you have seen, and perhaps playing the hard-done-to-NHS-servant card cut little ice with me,

6. As I said, I wish you no ill, only success in what you (we) try and do with (what is left of)our lives. Whatever backgrounds we have count for SFA and we all start (almost!) equal in Thailand.

citizen33 · July 24, 2009

Regarding the general demise of the UK, UK stopped being the world superpower 50 years ago.
After the dismal 70's it consolidated as the 5th wealtiest nation.

And seems to be holding that spot.

It is interesting that the story about the output figures released today was given a different spin by different media. On the BBC Radio 4 Today programme this morning a Goldman Sachs expert suggested that the outlook was improving and that after the usual adjustments it might turn out that falling output has already been arrested. This was followed up by a story about Saatchi & Saatchi, who do the marketing for Toyoto and suggest that the prospects for car sales in the UK are much better than in the US at present. Obviously there are still real problems, but I thought the contrast with the gloomy presentation in some of the newspapers was really striking. At the moment there are still bads signs as well as the occasional good sign. Nobody here seems to have mentioned the 350 new jobs at Nissan, Sunderland announced earlier in the week, though admittedly this is only the first step in getting back some of the Nissan jobs lost during the last year.

Edited July 24, 2009 by citizen33

thaibeachlovers · July 28, 2009

OK, so you were bored, and thought you'd put me down with the violin icon, to make your day more exciting- whatever turns you on. If I'm bored by a post, I just move on, rather than mock someone of whom I know nothing.
You obviously completely missed the point I was trying to make in response to the poster who was denigrating savers, and some of the respondents who were implying savers obtained their money by having bought property at a fortuitous time, which is that many people save only by making sacrifices, while others get into excessive debt and then go crying for help when things go bad and they lose everything.

I get really PO when the government takes my hard earned tax money to bail out greedy wasters, while I get punished by losing money due to inflation while my savings make nil interest.

Let's get a few things clear:-

1. You did not make the point (at least to me) that you were trying to make with your post.

2. I was bored by what I considered to be a self-pitying ramble.

3. The above is a further ramble that does not make the point clear - at least to me (I accept that I may or may not be partly to blame in that). MY point is that I did not understand the point you were trying to make.

4. I apologise if I have caused any personal offence - it was not not my intention to 'mock' you. I respect some of your other posts and it seems clear that you are a genuine guy trying to do the best you can for yourself and your family. The post that bored me made you out to be a bit pathetic and I doubt that is a fair reflection of you as a person.

5. I have been down in places that I doubt you have seen, and perhaps playing the hard-done-to-NHS-servant card cut little ice with me,

6. As I said, I wish you no ill, only success in what you (we) try and do with (what is left of)our lives. Whatever backgrounds we have count for SFA and we all start (almost!) equal in Thailand.

OK, so I didn't get the point across. Won't be the first time, or the last.

I was certainly not bemoaning my "fate", just trying to point out that not all savers made it big in property etc. As a qualified diesel mech ( I had more than one occupation before going late in life into the health field, and you might be surprised at the places I have been! ) before I went into health I could have gone to work on the oil rigs and made a bundle, but I still chose the harder option in full knowledge that I would make sweet FA.

The fact that I made the wrong choice ( and that's another story ) does not make any difference to my situation. ( People in the UK should worry about the future of the NHS though, as due to the low wages being paid, hardly any competent people now want to work in my field, and that has huge implications for the future of public health care. )

As most of my ( saved ) money is in countries that do pay interest, the nil interest in the UK is of minor importance to me. More critical is that due to the incompetence of Brown et al, the pound is now so devalued that I lose value every time I take money out of the country.

I too could have gone down the debt road, and now it would be the bank's problem that I couldn't repay them ( I would just have declared bankrupcy ), but it is unfair that by being a saver rather than a borrower I am being punished for the stupidity of the masses.

Well good luck to you too.

sunreader · August 3, 2009

"Pound and FTSE hit 10-month highs"

Phew!...relief.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8181161.stm

Kimera · August 3, 2009

"Pound and FTSE hit 10-month highs"
Phew!...relief.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8181161.stm

That should do it 57+ offshore today and hopefully on the why UP

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