Learning Thai At The Weekend, Which School?

[thaicbr]

Hi all i would like to learn Thai, but due to work i only have time at the weekends. Which schools are you guys going to and what are they like. All feedback would be appreciated. Also i am a beginner, I know most numbers etc but not a lot else.

Thanks Allan

[MacWalen]

We have a beginners class running on every Saturday and Sunday from 10 till 11.50 in our Bangkok school in Sukhumvit, 2 lessons a day. You are welcome to come for a free demonstration of our method, if you do not like it will not cost you anything. You can sit in an actual class and later decide to join or not.

Walen School

www.thaiwalen.com

Edited July 13, 2009 by macwalen

[thaicbr]

UMMM. If Walen is like the English Callan method then i do not think i will like it.

But hey, I will come and see for myself so i might take you up on that. What's the cost of a course and do you have free parking at your office building?

[MacWalen]

60 lesson course is 9,900 Baht, it takes 15 weeks to complete if you take 4 lessons a week. The complete list of prices for our courses is here http://www.thaiwalen.com/prices.php

There is also free parking for 4 hours so more than enough if you come for 2 lessons. I have also attached an example of lesson 1 of the Walen Method, if you have time please listen to it.

Walen School

www.thaiwalen.com

_Walen___3610___3607___3648___3619___3637___3618___3609___3607___3637___3656__1.mp3

[SoftWater]

60 lesson course is 9,900 Baht, it takes 15 weeks to complete if you take 4 lessons a week. The complete list of prices for our courses is here http://www.thaiwalen.com/prices.php

There is also free parking for 4 hours so more than enough if you come for 2 lessons. I have also attached an example of lesson 1 of the Walen Method, if you have time please listen to it.

Walen School

www.thaiwalen.com

Glad to see, at last, a school that is not afraid to tell the truth about language learning. I've been arguing for years at my institution that the key to success in language is nothing other than repetition, and that repetition is boring (I even used the same analogy as you about music, only i referred to riffing like Jimi Hendrix rather than playing the piano!)

Computers, DVDs, podcasts etc etc are all just ways of increasing repetition. Unfortunately, in Thailand there seems to be this constant beliefe that some new technology will 'magically' improve students learning, and everyone gets in a sweat shouting that we must use youtube or podcasts or whatever the latest fad is in the classroom, or we will be 'outdated'. There is no magic to language learning - just repeat, repeat, repeat.

The only thing I disagree with about your methodology is the idea that adults should learn like children. Actually, it's far easier for adults to learn to read and write a foreign language first and use that as a basis for their oral skills. The cognitive abilities of children and adults are utterly dissimilar, not least because, unlike children, we learn a second langauge by translation.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I need to go back to school and get some more of that practice in! I'll definitely consider your school when I get round to it.

[LantaSchool]

I've been arguing for years at my institution that the key to success in language is nothing other than repetition, and that repetition is boring (I even used the same analogy as you about music, only i referred to riffing like Jimi Hendrix rather than playing the piano!)

Computers, DVDs, podcasts etc etc are all just ways of increasing repetition. Unfortunately, in Thailand there seems to be this constant beliefe that some new technology will 'magically' improve students learning, and everyone gets in a sweat shouting that we must use youtube or podcasts or whatever the latest fad is in the classroom, or we will be 'outdated'. There is no magic to language learning - just repeat, repeat, repeat.

The only thing I disagree with about your methodology is the idea that adults should learn like children. Actually, it's far easier for adults to learn to read and write a foreign language first and use that as a basis for their oral skills. The cognitive abilities of children and adults are utterly dissimilar, not least because, unlike children, we learn a second langauge by translation.

We agree that repetition is key to learning, however we also believe that it is equally important to deliver the repetition in a varied format that engages the student. This way the student will have more scenarios to draw on in order to recall the word from their memory, plus they will not get so easily bored and “switch off” from the learning process.

Let’s take the word “laugh” as an example.

If you hear the word “laugh” while also seeing someone “laugh” you have a visual to associate the word laugh with.

If you hear the word “laugh” again, but this time it’s because you have actually laughed. Then – not only do you have a visual reference for the word “laugh”, but you also have an actual feeling and experience to draw on.

Let’s say you’re then introduced to the word laugh in a vocabulary list – now can you also draw on translation from your own language if you wish.

Now imagine that you have videos, sound files and computer games all designed to keep reintroducing you to the word “laugh”.

Having changed our methods of teaching from traditional techniques, to these new, more interactive and varied techniques, we know that students find it much easier to remember words this way – plus their feedback shows that they have more fun in the process.

With regards to your comment about the learning methods of children – versus that of the adult. We understand your point, however the scientists that we base our courses on believe that we do not actually lose our ability to learn in certain ways when we grow older, but that we “forget” or “cover” our old learning methods, with those methods that we adopt through our school years and beyond. These scientists also believe that by “uncovering” and “relearning” these techniques, adults will find it a lot easier to pick up a second language.

I guess the point is that our brains don’t learn in a different way when we are adults, due to nature... but more they are nurtured into learning this way, through traditional educational systems. By going back to the basics of how a child learns their native language, and applying some of the theories – students stand a much better chance of grasping a second language. Again the increased success rate we have witnessed since we changed our methods supports this theory.

[SoftWater]

With regards to your comment about the learning methods of children – versus that of the adult. We understand your point, however the scientists that we base our courses on believe that we do not actually lose our ability to learn in certain ways when we grow older, but that we "forget" or "cover" our old learning methods, with those methods that we adopt through our school years and beyond. These scientists also believe that by "uncovering" and "relearning" these techniques, adults will find it a lot easier to pick up a second language.

And there are "scientists" who don't believe in global warming....but we seem to be having this debate in two different places at the same time. Interested forum readers might want to follow the thread in 'Best Thai Language School' thread and make their own minds up about Lanta's "scientists"

[LantaSchool]

With regards to your comment about the learning methods of children – versus that of the adult. We understand your point, however the scientists that we base our courses on believe that we do not actually lose our ability to learn in certain ways when we grow older, but that we "forget" or "cover" our old learning methods, with those methods that we adopt through our school years and beyond. These scientists also believe that by "uncovering" and "relearning" these techniques, adults will find it a lot easier to pick up a second language.

And there are "scientists" who don't believe in global warming....but we seem to be having this debate in two different places at the same time. Interested forum readers might want to follow the thread in 'Best Thai Language School' thread and make their own minds up about Lanta's "scientists"

Yes - let's keep the debate in one place..

[RickBradford]

Sorry to perpetuate the double thread, but I can't let this go unchallenged.

By going back to the basics of how a child learns their native language, and applying some of the theories...

A child learns their native language because of an urgent, even over-arching, need to communicate with those around them, and to make sense of the world. They desperately need to be a part of the family or group they are in, and language is the key to that.

A self-sufficient adult who already has a framework to understand the world (their native language) and is trying to learn a second language, is worlds away from the child's experience.

The best way to learn Thai would be to recreate that urgent need -- say if you were sentenced to 10 years on Thailand's equivalent of Devil's Island where nobody spoke English, that might do it. The more urgent our need (or, in other words, the greater our motivation), the quicker we learn.

I'm sure that if we learn a new word in a social situation, we tend to remember it better than if we read it in a dictionary, again, because the motivation was present at the time of learning. So, learning the word laugh when seeing somebody laugh may well fix that word in their mind. I wonder what is the action required to learn a phrase such as กระบวนการโปร่งใส ?

Edited September 5, 2009 by RickBradford

[mangkorn]

For a bit of trivia, the coinage (or least promotion) of the term การโปร่งใส to mean transparency in public administration/politics is generally credited to the much-missed former premier อานันท์ ปันยารชุน - who sought to replicate that English definition in Thai. Traditionally, there was not much need for such a term vis-a-vis government.

Anyway, Rick's point is well-taken: I must've looked up กระหล่ำปลี in the dictionary a half dozen times, and quickly forgot it afterwards because I didn't have frequent need for it. But the first time I heard it at the vegetarian festival in the neighborhood, I never forgot it.

For basic vocabulary, that works well. Expressions and syntactical constructions can be trickier, because a dictionary won't help. Early on, I had the regular need to tell taxi drivers to "turn left immediately AFTER the bridge" - that's how I understood the idea - but could never quite communicate it as clearly as I wished. Then I asked a teacher how to express it, and he replied: "I'd jsut say ลงสะพาน..." That, of course, worked perfectly. It was my first introduction to the importance of directional words in Thai (the "after" is implied). If I had been in a taxi with another person and heard how he/she expressed it, that one social situation would've been sufficient. But, what if you don't hear what you want to know in a social situation?

That, I submit, is when one may find the greatest value in a teacher. If you make regular lists of questions on things that you need to know, and have someone to go to for the Thai way of expressing it. Unfortunately, the schools with their "methods" don't allow much room for that, not in class time, anyway. That's why I always went with small schools, and private tutors: to be able to determine the best use of class time for my own needs; to make my own lesson plan. Reading prepared lessons, rote recitation and practicing writing script seems like a very expensive and inefficient way to use a teacher's time, to me. That can and should be done on one's own time; what I want from a teacher is someone to answer the many questions that will occur to me as I go through daily life, and independent study: "how do Thai people generally express this thought; what is the proper sentence construction, etc."

As Rick put it so well, no pre-planned school method will teach one to grasp and record กระบวนการโปร่งใส. That's something you must learn how to do by your own methods.

[Rionoir]

Check out ProLanguage too... see which school works best for u.

[worldfun]

Umm there's a lot of interesting thoughs on 'methods' for learning (Thai) language as a 2nd language.

Well some of us (especially us non english native speakers!) already learned a 2nd or even 3rd & 4th language back in regular school, so how does that go with this 'learning as a child' theory? I think maybe not so well so I still believe most of us would be better off with a 'creative', but traditional intensive course of 3-4 hours daily grouped into clear levels from beginner to advanced...

Thoughs, comments as to the main 'methods' including AUA/'Kashen'?, Walen/Callan, Berlitz/Direct, phonetics vs. Thai script etc?

[Rionoir]

I watched some video of AUA's method on YouTube... I thought it was silly personally. I heard they don't even get to speak/interact until a few LEVELS in? That sounds like a complete waste of time... you may as well just spend a few hundred baht on some movies if you are able to learn that way.

At Chula the first 5 weeks was with phonetics, we got a headstart on learning Thai before spending all our time worrying about the script. But by the end of Basic II it was all Thai script and that has been incredibly useful for me. I have so many friends online that I talk with... if I was going to write Thai in phonetics to my friends that don't speak English it would be useless. LoL

[worldfun]

yeah AUA's 'ALG' method states that absolutely NO speaking in Thai is allowed within the first 600 hours of study!!! "Do not attempt to use Thai in the classroom or in daily life during the first 600 hours of study".

hel_l other 'regular' programmes go from beginner to advanced/fluent around 600 hours / 6 months in, so yeah 'time waste' is a word that comes to mind...

but as always every person's situation is unique & I heard about several (Americans) who learned Thai fluently from AUA (mainly), but it may have taken them 1 year ++

[Rionoir]

The first 600 hours!!!! Bwahahahahahahahahahaha...

Wow I knew it was a while, but I didn't know it was that long. Yea you're right, we were reading and writing 100% in Thai script by 600 hours already... I can't imagine still not being allowed to even speak (and encouraged to NOT SPEAK outside of class?) after that long. How ridiculous...

[worldfun]

yeah sounds pretty unbeliable doesn't it? but at least they don't brag being best school or put flashy banners in language (or visa) forums, but the methods structure can be seen by everyone who care for AUA here - http://www.algworld.com/progress_assessment.php (in the 'CEILING' paragraph).

cheers!