`what Is It With The Thai Media

[isanb]

the cameraman was doing his job, this is how he feeds his children.

Yes, with the corpse of another child, i hope he will rot in hel_l

Edited July 14, 2009 by isanb

[Maizefarmer]

... have you guys know that Western cameraman are no different guys - I have TVRO (go google TVRO), and use it to watch raw newsfeeds on C and Ku bands - European camerman & reporter teams submitting raw news feeds back to FOX/SKY/BBC ect ect ......., the stuff you don't see on TV back home - but no mistake about it, from the content contained in some of those un-edited news feeds its clear that European camera crews can be, and are just as "forcefull" and "invasionary" of grieving Asians - grieving over deceased family members.

Many of those incidents are extremly unplesent incidents to witness, let alone to have to tolerate a camerman in your face.(especialy those relating to coverage of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan). Seldom do you see an Asian lash out at the cameraman. It doe shappen from time to time, but if one wishes to talk about respectfulness and sensitivity against the background of their own values (meaning Western values), then lets not forget that Western crews conduct themselves little differently when they get the chance to be invasive and intrusive!

There is nothing "Thai" about what the cameraman was doing - cameramen the world over, irrespective of nationality, are intrusive - its their job.

[isanb]

... have you guys know that Western cameraman are no different guys -then lets not forget that Western crews conduct themselves little differently when they get the chance to be invasive and intrusive!

There is nothing "Thai" about what the cameraman was doing - cameramen the world over, irrespective of nationality, are intrusive - its their job.

I did not know,

sorry,

so may they rot in hel_l also

[Harcourt]

... have you guys know that Western cameraman are no different guys - I have TVRO (go google TVRO), and use it to watch raw newsfeeds on C and Ku bands - European camerman & reporter teams submitting raw news feeds back to FOX/SKY/BBC ect ect ......., the stuff you don't see on TV back home - but no mistake about it, from the content contained in some of those un-edited news feeds its clear that European camera crews can be, and are just as "forcefull" and "invasionary" of grieving Asians - grieving over deceased family members.

Many of those incidents are extremly unplesent incidents to witness, let alone to have to tolerate a camerman in your face.(especialy those relating to coverage of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan). Seldom do you see an Asian lash out at the cameraman. It doe shappen from time to time, but if one wishes to talk about respectfulness and sensitivity against the background of their own values (meaning Western values), then lets not forget that Western crews conduct themselves little differently when they get the chance to be invasive and intrusive!

There is nothing "Thai" about what the cameraman was doing - cameramen the world over, irrespective of nationality, are intrusive - its their job.

Yes indeed. Hear hear.

It's the producer or editor that decides what gets broadcast/published.....and they are probably bound by their charter or local broadcasting decency guidlines and the company's decrees as to how far the images are to be censored.

We have all seen bodies and body parts on news coverage in the Middle East, the aftermath of Nargis in Burma....even harking back to the Viet Nam war, ....I have images in my mind of burnt Asian bodies that I recall seeing years ago and still see in newsreels.

But oh no! Not a Western child....horrible and nasty reporters now the shoe is on the other foot!

If someone bashed me with a spanner, I'd go for him one way or the other too.

[Maizefarmer]

Good points - including Isanb's ........ I hear what youre saying.

I wonder if a lot of the "sensitivities" highlighted and alluded to on this thread over the last couple days are "sensitivities" that would have been given the prominence they were given, were we talking about a loss of a Thai child (??)

Nuff' said - the subject and the debate surrounding the reporting which has followed it since the weekend has given me a lot to think about.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[chiangdan]

A lot of blame is being directed at the thai media and rightfully so given thier actions but I do believe a fair portion or if not equal blame should be directed to those in charge of this incident or any other similar incident. This was a personal and private incident involving one family and not an international incident such as war or natural disaster. I am all for freedom of the press but there are lines that should not be crossed. Why don't those in charge of such an incident ie: the Police show some leadership and respect the feelings of grieving person/s (family) and restrict just how up close and personal the media can come. I am sure they have the power to cordon and contain a scene and restrict movements inside that particular scene.

In most civilized and humane societies personal details and photographs of victims in such an incident cannot be released without the express permission of family. The story can still be covered. An example would be say a soldier is killed in a conflict the news story may be "Another Australian Soldier Killed in Afganastan." The news bulliten would also state name and details witheld at the request of the family. Normally full details phot's will be released within 24 hours when the intial grieving and impact felt by the family has eased. This is done out of respect for the family and the deceased.

I am sure that the parents of this child would have allowed a media conference to provide the story when the shock had subsided and they were composed in thier thoughts. The thai media did not even give the family time to fully realise what had occured and shame on them and the authorities.

Edited July 14, 2009 by chiangdan

[chiangdan]

... have you guys know that Western cameraman are no different guys - I have TVRO (go google TVRO), and use it to watch raw newsfeeds on C and Ku bands - European camerman & reporter teams submitting raw news feeds back to FOX/SKY/BBC ect ect ......., the stuff you don't see on TV back home - but no mistake about it, from the content contained in some of those un-edited news feeds its clear that European camera crews can be, and are just as "forcefull" and "invasionary" of grieving Asians - grieving over deceased family members.

Many of those incidents are extremly unplesent incidents to witness, let alone to have to tolerate a camerman in your face.(especialy those relating to coverage of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan). Seldom do you see an Asian lash out at the cameraman. It doe shappen from time to time, but if one wishes to talk about respectfulness and sensitivity against the background of their own values (meaning Western values), then lets not forget that Western crews conduct themselves little differently when they get the chance to be invasive and intrusive!

There is nothing "Thai" about what the cameraman was doing - cameramen the world over, irrespective of nationality, are intrusive - its their job.

Yes indeed. Hear hear.

It's the producer or editor that decides what gets broadcast/published.....and they are probably bound by their charter or local broadcasting decency guidlines and the company's decrees as to how far the images are to be censored.

We have all seen bodies and body parts on news coverage in the Middle East, the aftermath of Nargis in Burma....even harking back to the Viet Nam war, ....I have images in my mind of burnt Asian bodies that I recall seeing years ago and still see in newsreels.

But oh no! Not a Western child....horrible and nasty reporters now the shoe is on the other foot!

If someone bashed me with a spanner, I'd go for him one way or the other too.

I don't believe this is about any particular race, sex, child or adult but the lack of respect and sensitivity shown by the media and authorities to a deceased Person and the family. I would still have the same personal views no matter where it happened in the world. Please don't try and turn tragedy into a racist topic it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[isanb]

Good points - including Isanb's ........ I hear what youre saying.

I wonder if a lot of the "sensitivities" highlighted and alluded to on this thread over the last couple days are "sensitivities" that would have been given the prominence they were given, were we talking about a loss of a Thai child (??)

My children are thai and I do not make any differences between a thai or an european child.

I just react as a father and about the topic.

If it's happen to one of my children, and if i have behind me a reporter who try to take pictures, to bad for him.It's intolerable.

(For Harcourt) I was a child during the war in vietnam, my father was working there and i saw myself the monk sacrifice themselves in front of the american ambassy, they wanted that their messages are known to the world.I do not think that the same for the father of this children !!!!

Just a matter of respect.

Edited July 14, 2009 by isanb

[endure]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who are willing to travel half way round the world to a country that has a different religion, a different culture, an almost complete lack of western influence in its interactions, aren't willing to accept the fact that they are in an alien environment. I wonder how long they'd last if a bunch of Thais moved to their home country and started whining about the fact that things aren't like they are in Thailand?

[isanb]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who are willing to travel half way round the world to a country that has a different religion, a different culture, an almost complete lack of western influence in its interactions, aren't willing to accept the fact that they are in an alien environment. I wonder how long they'd last if a bunch of Thais moved to their home country and started whining about the fact that things aren't like they are in Thailand?

where this come from ?

Section 35. A person’s family rights, dignity, reputation and the right of privacy shall be protected.

The assertion or circulation of a statement or picture in

any manner whatsoever to the public, which violates or affects a

person’s family rights, dignity, reputation or the right of privacy,

shall not be made except for the case which is beneficial to the

public.

Edited July 14, 2009 by isanb

[Harcourt]

... have you guys know that Western cameraman are no different guys - I have TVRO (go google TVRO), and use it to watch raw newsfeeds on C and Ku bands - European camerman & reporter teams submitting raw news feeds back to FOX/SKY/BBC ect ect ......., the stuff you don't see on TV back home - but no mistake about it, from the content contained in some of those un-edited news feeds its clear that European camera crews can be, and are just as "forcefull" and "invasionary" of grieving Asians - grieving over deceased family members.

Many of those incidents are extremly unplesent incidents to witness, let alone to have to tolerate a camerman in your face.(especialy those relating to coverage of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan). Seldom do you see an Asian lash out at the cameraman. It doe shappen from time to time, but if one wishes to talk about respectfulness and sensitivity against the background of their own values (meaning Western values), then lets not forget that Western crews conduct themselves little differently when they get the chance to be invasive and intrusive!

There is nothing "Thai" about what the cameraman was doing - cameramen the world over, irrespective of nationality, are intrusive - its their job.

Yes indeed. Hear hear.

It's the producer or editor that decides what gets broadcast/published.....and they are probably bound by their charter or local broadcasting decency guidlines and the company's decrees as to how far the images are to be censored.

We have all seen bodies and body parts on news coverage in the Middle East, the aftermath of Nargis in Burma....even harking back to the Viet Nam war, ....I have images in my mind of burnt Asian bodies that I recall seeing years ago and still see in newsreels.

But oh no! Not a Western child....horrible and nasty reporters now the shoe is on the other foot!

If someone bashed me with a spanner, I'd go for him one way or the other too.

I don't believe this is about any particular race, sex, child or adult but the lack of respect and sensitivity shown by the media and authorities to a deceased Person and the family. I would still have the same personal views no matter where it happened in the world. Please don't try and turn tragedy into a racist topic it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm not playing the racist card...I'm reacting to racism and saying that it is not only Thai media.

The extremely vitriolic sentiments expressed against the Thai reporter (as in wishing his slow painful death) ARE racist by ommission....the detractors will condemn a Thai reporter but conveniently forget that Western media cameramen record all the grisly details also (It is only their editors, constrained by their particular local decency laws (not privacy laws) that stop broadcast of some images).....and whats more, Western media do indeed show pictures of dead people when those dead people are Asians.... but the viewers in the West, sitting comfortably at home don't seem to mind seeing anonymous dead people from the other side of the world....especially if it was "our boys over there" that shot or bombed them.

As I mentioned, I saw Nargis victims floating on the Irrawaddy on Western TV. I've seen hands and feet sticking out of the rubble in Afghanistan on Western TV.....nobody minds that, do they?

During the Gaza invasion in January, Fox news showed Isreali soldiers that wore T-shirts with a picture of a pregnant Arab woman, with cross-hairs superimposed, and the slogan, "One Shot, Two Kills", and they showed them almost as heroes with a sense of humour.... But that's OK apparently....she's only a raghead, right?

I'm sure everyone remembers the napalm burnt naked Vietnamese girl running down the road mentioned in a previous post...awards given for that image.

So, it is racist to have this double standard. I'm merely trying to get balance with my sarcasm, and thereby take racism out of it.

[endure]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who are willing to travel half way round the world to a country that has a different religion, a different culture, an almost complete lack of western influence in its interactions, aren't willing to accept the fact that they are in an alien environment. I wonder how long they'd last if a bunch of Thais moved to their home country and started whining about the fact that things aren't like they are in Thailand?

where this come from ?

Section 35. A person’s family rights, dignity, reputation and the right of privacy shall be protected.

The assertion or circulation of a statement or picture in

any manner whatsoever to the public, which violates or affects a

person’s family rights, dignity, reputation or the right of privacy,

shall not be made except for the case which is beneficial to the

public.

It comes from a country which rewrites its constitution to suit the status quo. If you want a constitution that is stable Thailand isn't the place for you...

Edited July 14, 2009 by endure

[isanb]

I'm not playing the racist card...I'm reacting to racism and saying that it is not only Thai media.

The extremely vitriolic sentiments expressed against the Thai reporter (as in wishing his slow painful death) ARE racist by ommission....the detractors will condemn a Thai reporter but conveniently forget that Western media cameramen record all the grisly details also (It is only their editors, constrained by their particular local decency laws (not privacy laws) that stop broadcast of some images).....and whats more, Western media do indeed show pictures of dead people when those dead people are Asians.... but the viewers in the West, sitting comfortably at home don't seem to mind seeing anonymous dead people from the other side of the world....especially if it was "our boys over there" that shot or bombed them.

As I mentioned, I saw Nargis victims floating on the Irrawaddy on Western TV. I've seen hands and feet sticking out of the rubble in Afghanistan on Western TV.....nobody minds that, do they?

During the Gaza invasion in January, Fox news showed Isreali soldiers that wore T-shirts with a picture of a pregnant Arab woman, with cross-hairs superimposed, and the slogan, "One Shot, Two Kills", and they showed them almost as heroes with a sense of humour.... But that's OK apparently....she's only a raghead, right?

I'm sure everyone remembers the napalm burnt naked Vietnamese girl running down the road mentioned in a previous post...awards given for that image.

So, it is racist to have this double standard. I'm merely trying to get balance with my sarcasm, and thereby take racism out of it.

they have done this in the past so it's ok to continue to do so

[isanb]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who are willing to travel half way round the world to a country that has a different religion, a different culture, an almost complete lack of western influence in its interactions, aren't willing to accept the fact that they are in an alien environment. I wonder how long they'd last if a bunch of Thais moved to their home country and started whining about the fact that things aren't like they are in Thailand?

where this come from ?

Section 35. A person's family rights, dignity, reputation and the right of privacy shall be protected.

The assertion or circulation of a statement or picture in

any manner whatsoever to the public, which violates or affects a

person's family rights, dignity, reputation or the right of privacy,

shall not be made except for the case which is beneficial to the

public.

It comes from a country which rewrites its constitution to suit the status quo. If you want a constitution that is stable Thailand isn't the place for you...

Please tell me what is the new constitution in thailand if this article is not good anymore ?

As to know if thailand is a place for me or not, is it your business ?

Edited July 14, 2009 by isanb

[Harcourt]

I'm not playing the racist card...I'm reacting to racism and saying that it is not only Thai media.

So, it is racist to have this double standard. I'm merely trying to get balance with my sarcasm, and thereby take racism out of it.

they have done this in the past so it's ok to continue to do so

No, I'm not condoning it. I'm saying that the posters that are so extremely bitter against the Thai reporter do not seem to mind if the media from other countries do it....I'm pointing out the double standard.

I'm also of a mind to agree with what YOU said regarding this is Thailand and people shouldn't expect to have the same standards as back home.

[endure]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who are willing to travel half way round the world to a country that has a different religion, a different culture, an almost complete lack of western influence in its interactions, aren't willing to accept the fact that they are in an alien environment. I wonder how long they'd last if a bunch of Thais moved to their home country and started whining about the fact that things aren't like they are in Thailand?

where this come from ?

Section 35. A person's family rights, dignity, reputation and the right of privacy shall be protected.

The assertion or circulation of a statement or picture in

any manner whatsoever to the public, which violates or affects a

person's family rights, dignity, reputation or the right of privacy,

shall not be made except for the case which is beneficial to the

public.

It comes from a country which rewrites its constitution to suit the status quo. If you want a constitution that is stable Thailand isn't the place for you...

Please tell me what is the new constitution in thailand if this article is not good anymore ?

As to know if thailand is a place for me or not, is it your business ?

It's none of my business at all whether you settle in Thailand but if you're expecting the kind of stability that exists in Europe or the USA then you ought be aware that you may be disappointed.

[isanb]

I'm also of a mind to agree with what YOU said regarding this is Thailand and people shouldn't expect to have the same standards as back home.

I agree with you, but see below a section of the actual constitution in thailand, do you think that the reporter respect that ?

Section 35. A person's family rights, dignity, reputation and the right of privacy shall be protected.

The assertion or circulation of a statement or picture in

any manner whatsoever to the public, which violates or affects a

person's family rights, dignity, reputation or the right of privacy,

shall not be made except for the case which is beneficial to the

public.

[isanb]

It's none of my business at all whether you settle in Thailand but if you're expecting the kind of stability that exists in Europe or the USA then you ought be aware that you may be disappointed.

i expect nothing, i just respect the actual laws and constitution in thailand, if they change i will adapt. Right now the section 35 is a part of the thai constitution.

Edited July 14, 2009 by isanb

[marsteele]

... have you guys know that Western cameraman are no different guys - I have TVRO (go google TVRO), and use it to watch raw newsfeeds on C and Ku bands - European camerman & reporter teams submitting raw news feeds back to FOX/SKY/BBC ect ect ......., the stuff you don't see on TV back home - but no mistake about it, from the content contained in some of those un-edited news feeds its clear that European camera crews can be, and are just as "forcefull" and "invasionary" of grieving Asians - grieving over deceased family members.

Many of those incidents are extremly unplesent incidents to witness, let alone to have to tolerate a camerman in your face.(especialy those relating to coverage of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan). Seldom do you see an Asian lash out at the cameraman. It doe shappen from time to time, but if one wishes to talk about respectfulness and sensitivity against the background of their own values (meaning Western values), then lets not forget that Western crews conduct themselves little differently when they get the chance to be invasive and intrusive!

There is nothing "Thai" about what the cameraman was doing - cameramen the world over, irrespective of nationality, are intrusive - its their job.

Yes indeed. Hear hear.

It's the producer or editor that decides what gets broadcast/published.....and they are probably bound by their charter or local broadcasting decency guidlines and the company's decrees as to how far the images are to be censored.

We have all seen bodies and body parts on news coverage in the Middle East, the aftermath of Nargis in Burma....even harking back to the Viet Nam war, ....I have images in my mind of burnt Asian bodies that I recall seeing years ago and still see in newsreels.

But oh no! Not a Western child....horrible and nasty reporters now the shoe is on the other foot!

If someone bashed me with a spanner, I'd go for him one way or the other too.

I don't believe this is about any particular race, sex, child or adult but the lack of respect and sensitivity shown by the media and authorities to a deceased Person and the family. I would still have the same personal views no matter where it happened in the world. Please don't try and turn tragedy into a racist topic it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm not playing the racist card...I'm reacting to racism and saying that it is not only Thai media.

The extremely vitriolic sentiments expressed against the Thai reporter (as in wishing his slow painful death) ARE racist by ommission....the detractors will condemn a Thai reporter but conveniently forget that Western media cameramen record all the grisly details also (It is only their editors, constrained by their particular local decency laws (not privacy laws) that stop broadcast of some images).....and whats more, Western media do indeed show pictures of dead people when those dead people are Asians.... but the viewers in the West, sitting comfortably at home don't seem to mind seeing anonymous dead people from the other side of the world....especially if it was "our boys over there" that shot or bombed them.

As I mentioned, I saw Nargis victims floating on the Irrawaddy on Western TV. I've seen hands and feet sticking out of the rubble in Afghanistan on Western TV.....nobody minds that, do they?

During the Gaza invasion in January, Fox news showed Isreali soldiers that wore T-shirts with a picture of a pregnant Arab woman, with cross-hairs superimposed, and the slogan, "One Shot, Two Kills", and they showed them almost as heroes with a sense of humour.... But that's OK apparently....she's only a raghead, right?

I'm sure everyone remembers the napalm burnt naked Vietnamese girl running down the road mentioned in a previous post...awards given for that image.

So, it is racist to have this double standard. I'm merely trying to get balance with my sarcasm, and thereby take racism out of it.

I understand and agree fully with what you say Harcourt. Yes the western media do show graphic pictures as stated in your examples. Gaza, Vietnam etc but these are conflict areas and two distinctly different topics. The examples you give are covered by the world media including thai and these stories need to be told and shown for all humanity. They serve a very distinct and useful purpose. What I don't see is the link between these and the nature of this Topic.

The obtrusive disrespectful nature of the media trying to make a financial gain on a personal family tragedy is completely different and has no bearing on world affairs.

The way a family tragedy was dealt with by thai authorities and the media making a victim seem like a wrong doer is the issue. The lack of respect shown during a time of grief was disgusting to say the least. They could have got thier story but it is the way they went about it.

This is a country that demands and expects respect in life but something fell down in this instance.

Edited July 14, 2009 by marsteele

[Harcourt]

I can feel what you are saying Marsteele, however...

By your OP title, your beef is with the Thai media and their lack of sensitivity.

I have seen enough Thai newspapers with photos of throat-slit bodies etc to realise that it is normal reporting for Thailand.

Has anybody stood up and said that they feel sorry for the Thai victims families' feelings when this happens?

Not that I recall, yet en masse they lift their voices in sympathy now, seemingly because the victim was British.

Some of the replies you have recieved, in support of your view, are very condemnatory of Thai reporting in this case only, and ignore the fact that 1. it is an everyday occurence in the Thai media, and 2. Western media don't worry about the sensibilities of the families of victims when the victim is in a far off country.

Don't get me wrong; My condolences to the British family for their loss. The Thai media style is not to my taste, but it is THEIR style, in THEIR country, and their style is not too different from Western media....the only difference is Western media have a different standard of "decency" when it comes to showing death, IF that death is local, but very simmilar if the death is foreign.

[mysterybkk]

I can feel what you are saying Marsteele, however...

By your OP title, your beef is with the Thai media and their lack of sensitivity.

I have seen enough Thai newspapers with photos of throat-slit bodies etc to realise that it is normal reporting for Thailand.

Has anybody stood up and said that they feel sorry for the Thai victims families' feelings when this happens?

Not that I recall, yet en masse they lift their voices in sympathy now, seemingly because the victim was British.

Some of the replies you have recieved, in support of your view, are very condemnatory of Thai reporting in this case only, and ignore the fact that 1. it is an everyday occurence in the Thai media, and 2. Western media don't worry about the sensibilities of the families of victims when the victim is in a far off country.

Don't get me wrong; My condolences to the British family for their loss. The Thai media style is not to my taste, but it is THEIR style, in THEIR country, and their style is not too different from Western media....the only difference is Western media have a different standard of "decency" when it comes to showing death, IF that death is local, but very simmilar if the death is foreign.

i agree with you. this seems to be more about culture shock of how thais deal with these kinds of situations.

nobody should expect "western standards" here in thailand, it's a totally different country.

[bonobo]

I can feel what you are saying Marsteele, however...

By your OP title, your beef is with the Thai media and their lack of sensitivity.

I have seen enough Thai newspapers with photos of throat-slit bodies etc to realise that it is normal reporting for Thailand.

Has anybody stood up and said that they feel sorry for the Thai victims families' feelings when this happens?

Not that I recall, yet en masse they lift their voices in sympathy now, seemingly because the victim was British.

Some of the replies you have recieved, in support of your view, are very condemnatory of Thai reporting in this case only, and ignore the fact that 1. it is an everyday occurence in the Thai media, and 2. Western media don't worry about the sensibilities of the families of victims when the victim is in a far off country.

Don't get me wrong; My condolences to the British family for their loss. The Thai media style is not to my taste, but it is THEIR style, in THEIR country, and their style is not too different from Western media....the only difference is Western media have a different standard of "decency" when it comes to showing death, IF that death is local, but very simmilar if the death is foreign.

The difference is that in this case, the father, who was right there, asked them to stop taking photos.  I would have felt exactly the same disgust if a Thai father asked the photographers to stop taking photos of his dead Thai child and the photographers kept on snapping away..

In cases like this, the immediate family trumps the common practices of newspapers.

[citizen33]

[quote name='isanb' post='2871417' date='2009-07-15 10:54:54'

... this is Thailand and people shouldn't expect to have the same standards as back home.

Isn't the flaw with this argument though that the event concerned happened in a water park catering mainly for Western tourists, in a city that is marketing itself as an international family resort? This is also the problem with facile comparisons with reportage from war zones. Trang Bang wasn't expecting many tourists in 1963!

Expats may wish to emphasize cultural differences and divergent norms concerning privacy and the treatment of death, but I doubt that TAT will want to do the same. If a country has ambitions to be a global player in tourism it would do well to recognise the basic human norms with which these tourists are familiar. Otherwise the market will decide, and indeed that is perhaps what we are beginning to see.

[Harcourt]

Isn't the flaw with this argument though that the event concerned happened in a water park catering mainly for Western tourists, in a city that is marketing itself as an international family resort? This is also the problem with facile comparisons with reportage from war zones. Trang Bang wasn't expecting many tourists in 1963!

Expats may wish to emphasize cultural differences and divergent norms concerning privacy and the treatment of death, but I doubt that TAT will want to do the same. If a country has ambitions to be a global player in tourism it would do well to recognise the basic human norms with which these tourists are familiar. Otherwise the market will decide, and indeed that is perhaps what we are beginning to see.

An eloquent and articulate response that brings up a valid point.

But isn't the flaw in this argument that it is in the water park's interest, and arguably the city's interest to recognise the norms of their client market, not the media company's, who are beholden only to their subscribers, not to TAT?

The comparisons to "reportage from war zones" is not facile in the slightest in the context in which they were given....I suggest you read the entire thread.

[justanothercybertosser]

Good points - including Isanb's ........ I hear what youre saying.

I wonder if a lot of the "sensitivities" highlighted and alluded to on this thread over the last couple days are "sensitivities" that would have been given the prominence they were given, were we talking about a loss of a Thai child (??)

My children are thai and I do not make any differences between a thai or an european child.

I just react as a father and about the topic.

If it's happen to one of my children, and if i have behind me a reporter who try to take pictures, to bad for him.It's intolerable.

And there are other situations where you would be glad that a reporter is at the scene and takes images. The presence of reporters often means pressure on authorities to act when vested interests would like to have a mess swiped under the table.

Photographers and cameramen have often delivered important evidence because they were intrusive.

No reporter enjoys taking images of dead children and grieving parents, but as others have mentioned - it is their duty. The media is the forth estate, it might be intrusive, often shoots over its aims, misbehaves, but it still has a very important control function.

As to the damages, if the camera was the camera of a TV station, it indeed is insensitive for the station to have accepted the money. If the camera was a personal camera, which in provinces outside bangkok is often the case as TV stations work there just with stringers, a damaged camera means a substantial loss of money for the cameraman, and damages are justified.

Every situation is different, and it is difficult to be that judgmental from the distance without knowing the details.

[Maizefarmer]

Whole bunch of very good points are raised by readers.

They raise a number of issues:

- the debates that surround, "what is public interest" and to what degree can/should intrusiveness be tolerated and allowed?

- and, at what point do you limit intrusiveness i.e. out in the field (with guidelines on "intrusiveness" for camermen), or leaving it for editors back at the newsdesk to decide what is acceptable?

- making judgements about "intrusiveness" depending on subject matter e.g. there is indeed substantial difference between coverage of an "incident" in say, Gaza or Vietnam, and an "incident" such as that which occured last weekend at the waterpark - do you apply "intrusiveness" differently, and what criteria do you use to measure how much "intrusivness" is justified.

Indeed, is so-called "public interest" the only criteria you use to make judgements about how far to go in been able to get that story.

In the UK this was a big issue with the tabloids. The catalyst was Diana's death, and what role the photographers played in the car crash. Ultimately they were cleared compleltly, and that was the right decision, but one of the generally accepted principals that came to the fore from that incident was that, if it happens in public,or in a public place then you do not enjoy "privacy". If it happens behind closed doors, or on your property, thats a different matter i.e. a cameraman can't leen over the garden wall/fence, take a photo of a medic resusitating you and publish it, but he can if you collapse in the high street.

.... and there is one other consideration: often its not the subject matter, but how it is portrayed (i.e. written up) where readers see "offensiveness". Likewise with a camerman - often its not his presence, but how he is going about his job a pxxx's folk off.

[mrtoad]

... have you guys know that Western cameraman are no different guys - I have TVRO (go google TVRO), and use it to watch raw newsfeeds on C and Ku bands - European camerman & reporter teams submitting raw news feeds back to FOX/SKY/BBC ect ect ......., the stuff you don't see on TV back home - but no mistake about it, from the content contained in some of those un-edited news feeds its clear that European camera crews can be, and are just as "forcefull" and "invasionary" of grieving Asians - grieving over deceased family members.

Many of those incidents are extremly unplesent incidents to witness, let alone to have to tolerate a camerman in your face.(especialy those relating to coverage of innocent civilians killed in Afghanistan). Seldom do you see an Asian lash out at the cameraman. It doe shappen from time to time, but if one wishes to talk about respectfulness and sensitivity against the background of their own values (meaning Western values), then lets not forget that Western crews conduct themselves little differently when they get the chance to be invasive and intrusive!

There is nothing "Thai" about what the cameraman was doing - cameramen the world over, irrespective of nationality, are intrusive - its their job.

Yes indeed. Hear hear.

It's the producer or editor that decides what gets broadcast/published.....and they are probably bound by their charter or local broadcasting decency guidlines and the company's decrees as to how far the images are to be censored.

We have all seen bodies and body parts on news coverage in the Middle East, the aftermath of Nargis in Burma....even harking back to the Viet Nam war, ....I have images in my mind of burnt Asian bodies that I recall seeing years ago and still see in newsreels.

But oh no! Not a Western child....horrible and nasty reporters now the shoe is on the other foot!

If someone bashed me with a spanner, I'd go for him one way or the other too.

I don't believe this is about any particular race, sex, child or adult but the lack of respect and sensitivity shown by the media and authorities to a deceased Person and the family. I would still have the same personal views no matter where it happened in the world. Please don't try and turn tragedy into a racist topic it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm not playing the racist card...I'm reacting to racism and saying that it is not only Thai media.

The extremely vitriolic sentiments expressed against the Thai reporter (as in wishing his slow painful death) ARE racist by ommission....the detractors will condemn a Thai reporter but conveniently forget that Western media cameramen record all the grisly details also (It is only their editors, constrained by their particular local decency laws (not privacy laws) that stop broadcast of some images).....and whats more, Western media do indeed show pictures of dead people when those dead people are Asians.... but the viewers in the West, sitting comfortably at home don't seem to mind seeing anonymous dead people from the other side of the world....especially if it was "our boys over there" that shot or bombed them.

As I mentioned, I saw Nargis victims floating on the Irrawaddy on Western TV. I've seen hands and feet sticking out of the rubble in Afghanistan on Western TV.....nobody minds that, do they?

During the Gaza invasion in January, Fox news showed Isreali soldiers that wore T-shirts with a picture of a pregnant Arab woman, with cross-hairs superimposed, and the slogan, "One Shot, Two Kills", and they showed them almost as heroes with a sense of humour.... But that's OK apparently....she's only a raghead, right?

I'm sure everyone remembers the napalm burnt naked Vietnamese girl running down the road mentioned in a previous post...awards given for that image.

So, it is racist to have this double standard. I'm merely trying to get balance with my sarcasm, and thereby take racism out of it.

Mate, you are way off track. Funny how the use of race is being used to defend the despicable actions of the cameraman. My feelings would have been the same had it been a British, Irish, Aussie, Inidan OR WHATEVER cameraman or family. His actions were wrong, insensitive and claiming compensation is just plain digusting. As mentioned earlier by another poster, if he is doing his job like that he should expect the odd smack. The actions of the BIB as always bring shame on the country.

[isanb]

And there are other situations where you would be glad that a reporter is at the scene and takes images.

Every situation is different, and it is difficult to be that judgmental from the distance without knowing the details.

My reaction is based on the behavior of the reporter during this tragic event.

as you said every situation is different but in this case the behavior of this reporter does not honor the thai media.

[mysterybkk]

slightly off topic here but it is still somewhat relevant as this ties in with the compensation issue:

a few years ago my younger brother was involved in an accident at a mini golf course where he fell into a spot light and had massive injuries to his leg, severed tendons among other things. as we were rushing him to the hospital the management demanded that we pay for the broken lamp and were making a huge fuss about it.

this whole compensation thing seems to be a very thai response, they seem to want compensation for any little thing. i found it grossly insensitive that they demanded money while my brother was bleeding profusely. just out of curiosity, has something similar happened to anyone else? has anyone experienced compensation demands in inappropriate circumstances?

[Harcourt]

slightly off topic here but it is still somewhat relevant as this ties in with the compensation issue:

a few years ago my younger brother was involved in an accident at a mini golf course where he fell into a spot light and had massive injuries to his leg, severed tendons among other things. as we were rushing him to the hospital the management demanded that we pay for the broken lamp and were making a huge fuss about it.

this whole compensation thing seems to be a very thai response, they seem to want compensation for any little thing. i found it grossly insensitive that they demanded money while my brother was bleeding profusely. just out of curiosity, has something similar happened to anyone else? has anyone experienced compensation demands in inappropriate circumstances?

Yeah, it is relevant Mystery because many responses here are based on disgust at the demand for compensation.

Your example is very pertinant: for the sake of this discussion, lets say the mini-golf management were not responsible for your brother's accident in any way. And lets say that your brother made some choices that resulted in an accident.

A lamp was broken.

Should he pay for the damage that he created?

Let's say he wasn't bleeding....many would say that he should pay.

If you agree that he should pay if he was not hurt, why should he not pay if he was hurt?

How is his injury, in realistic terms, relevant to whether or not he should pay?

(if I wanted to really play the devil's advocate here I might ask who pays to clean up the bloody mess he left behind...it's his blood, he left it there, it's unhygienic, it needs to be cleaned... )

People tend to mix emotive arguments with pragmatic ones....I do too....but I wonder if I should. Why is the mini-golf business left to pay for someone else's damages?

If someone came to a party at your house and got out of control and smashed a window....would you expect him to pay?.....but if he cut his wrist in smashing the window, does that let the hooligan off?

I suspect you are going to say that if demands for payment are valid, then the demands should be made at a more appropriate time....

When is the appropriate time when the culprit is leaving the premises, never to be seen again?

Come to that, WHY is it more appropriate to ask for payment later (or not at all)? (looking for logic here, not emotion)