Thaksin: Special Security Protection For Me In Malaysia

[hammered]

Another huge problem is that millions of people like him as PM..Mind boggling.

Quite simple; they were much better off under him and his proxies than they were under the previous Chuan Leekpai Democrat government and under this current majority Democrat coalition.

Thaksin's visit to Malaysia shows yet again the region's other governments aren't concerned about him nor do they fully recognise the current Thai government's charges for extradition and arrest.

Which democracies have so far banned Thaksin?

UK, Germany, Japan, can he actually get in the EU or USA?. He doesn't seem willing to try.

Reduced to lurking around juntas and authoritarian regimes, very fitting.

It would be very interesting to know the arm-twisting that took place between the paranoid Thai Government and those Governments who have acted against Thaksin. Business and international relations supercede many things. I have heard many stories from my pro-democracy friends in this regard, but find them unsubstantiated in the main.

Quite frankly Thailand doesnt not have the clout to influence the decisions of some of the richest and most powerful countries and trading groups in the world as listed here. These decisons were certainly not made based on business and international relations decisions. Thailand needs the EU for example to exportits industrial and agricultural products to and has no leverage over what governments do. Fact is Thaksin has been found guilty in a court an dthat carries weight. His using the UK to launch poltical initiatives also did not help. Since his Man City takeover the Premier League now looks far more seriously into the backgrounds of who is taking clubs over. Quite frankly Thaksins conviction heightened by his own actions led to those bans and it is ludicrous to see the EU, Germany, UK, USA, and Japan as cowering before the mighty Abhisit and saying yes Sir we will ban him.

I take it your pro-democracy friends are also aware of Thaksin's chequered human rights record and are hence critical of this and maybe even wanting to see him brought to book for this rather than other more contentious charges

[Ferwert]

The same powers, backing Sondhi, are now in and behind the present power.

Odd, those supposedly 'in and behind' the present power have just charged Sondhi & Co.

Today, the PAD had their suit against PM Abhisit and the Police Chief rejected by the court.

Hardly seems like 'backing' by the PM's office bringing charges and the court rejecting PAD's suit?

PAD aren't and shouldn't be above the law any more than Mr Thaksin. Good to see things going in the right direction.

Edit-

PS: anyone who wants to have an election in the midst of the largest economic downturn in memory, plus the flu-'frenzy', plus incited political mayhem, seeks to place theirs and their desired proxy's interests ahead of the Nation. Elections are likely by year-end, no need to vacate the Govt for minimum 3 months in order to rush the 'right honourable' Mr Chalerm into the waiting proxy-PM's seat...

There is some truth to what you say about rushing an election, regardless of the illegitemacy of the current Government. But to provide a specific timeline would help. Abhisit's intention of fiddling with the constitution prior to an election is particularly disturbing. A constitution promulgated under a coup/junta should have been abbrogated the moment the military was sent packing after the election, and I fault Samak for not doing that. He had the electoral mandate. Now for this illegitemate Govt. hoisted into power by non-elected forces wants to make constitutional changes before an election that will in all likelyhood result in their demise, is very, very suspicious. I foresee an attempt to dilute electoral democracy, and replace it with an anti-democratic appointive process under the guise and code-words of Constitutional reviews, Political reforms and National reconciliation. This whole process is in the hands of anti-democratic forces, so what do you predict the results will be?

[animatic]

Thaksin never was and never will be pro-democracy. To claim so is to expose ones ignorance. You mustn't have lived her under his rule or gained such favors that your didn't care who or what rights that got trampled on.

But I am sure that by the time this post is sent to the site via the [Add Reply]-button you are already on your todays 7th post of propaganda-writing in several different treads with no interest whatsoever to back anything up with facts but to paint the same picture again and again, hoping that repetition will make the lie become true.

So according to you I am exposing my ignorance Huh! I write knowledgably my friend with exactly that - historical fact. I am not propagandizing my fellowposter and friend. It is not me "parrotting" the English language media. Backing up with facts and evidence? - try me, lets get it on. where do we start? I will enjoy debating with you or anyone else. I caution you however, that my cause is the cause of one-person-one-vote electoral democracy, of which icon Thaksin has the best record here in Thailand.

See, you cannot even write a single reply without sad propaganda injected into it.

And could you stop with you formatting into italic? Unless you are posting drunk and need your own text to look straight, it just annoys people.

Ye gawds, not off the plot, off the charts,

into strange waters indeed!

Is this the return of the returned returned? One wonders.

[animatic]

wonder if the 'ambassador' will get summoned to explain this one.

way to lose face for your host.

The only people losing face about Thaksin are in Thailand. The Anti-Democrats of Thailand cannot have this icon of democratic electoral legitimacy running about continually reminding the world of their illegitimacy. If I was hoisted into power through non-electoral means, and need militia type protection any time I venture outside Bangkok, I wouldn't want someone running around reminding people of when it was otherwise - legitimate and able to travel about in his own country without protection.

*Yawn*

Thaksin never was and never will be pro-democracy. To claim so is to expose ones ignorance. You mustn't have lived her under his rule

or gained such favors that your didn't care who or what rights that got trampled on.

But I am sure that by the time this post is sent to the site via the [Add Reply]-button you are already on your todays 7th post of propaganda-writing in several different treads with no interest whatsoever to back anything up with facts but to paint the same picture again and again, hoping that repetition will make the lie become true.

Sorry, the guy ran a political machine that ran rough shod across democracy.

Propoganda 101: 'paint the same picture again and again'

Thaksin quote" Democracy is not my aim."

Icon my aching a**.

Simplest response; it's all about the MONEY!

[webfact]

Thaksin embarrassment to Malaysian govt: Thaworn

By The Nation

Deputy Interior Minister Thaworn Senneam on Tuesday questioned the credibility of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who claimed to have received VIP protection during a one-night transit in Malaysia last week.

"Thaksin is known for saying something but doing differently," he said in reaction Thaksin's account of his stop-over in Kuala Lumpur.

In his Monday's phone-in to an Udon Thani radio show,Thaksin boasted that Malaysian authorites dispatched a security detail of 15 Special Branch police officers for his protection.

Thaworn countered he believed Malaysia had irked by Thaksin's presence due to the existence of a bilateral agreement on extradition.

"Thaksin's boasting has just caused an embarrassment to the Malaysian authorities who are obligated to send him back," he said.

Malaysia is now fully aware that Thai police, public prosecutors, courts and Corrections Department want to extradite Thaksin, he added.

-- The Nation 2009/07/14

[Insight]

<<deservedly snipped >>

could you please avoid typing in capital letters. It is hard to read and is considered as shouting. Thank you

Does it not seem utterly bizarre that somebody is promoting debate on another well established forum (albeit in a different first language) using a posting style that shows very little understanding of forums in general?

Can understand English probably isn't the posters first language, but still...?

[LaoPo]

The same powers, backing Sondhi, are now in and behind the present power.

Odd, those supposedly 'in and behind' the present power have just charged Sondhi & Co.

Yes, I know but that doesn't surprise anybody.

Isn't each and everyone suing each other in Thailand ? It's a masquerade.

The intelligentsia in Thailand certainly learned a lot from the tricky rules and possibilities within, and outside, the law (read: military), played in Western countries, like France, UK, Switzerland and the USA for example, when they studied there (as their children and grand children are studying there now).

The only exception is that the military powers in western countries are obeying their respective governments although even there there are secretive military operations without the knowledge of the governments.

The power in Thailand is and will remain within a few hundred families, loyal-or-not to the highest in the country, defending their powers and fortunes at all costs. But from time to time even those families have their struggles and "misunderstandings" amongst them, resulting in fights over extra powers, defending their own interests.

It's never in the interest of the population!

The present government is in power exactly because of those strong powers behind the velvet Thai curtains and military support.

A few lawsuits here and there do not change that.

And, about Thaksin: if the Western-, Middle Eastern and Asian countries would have pulled together in cooperating by the requests of the Thai Goverment, it would have been so easy for them to grab him and extradite him to Thailand. But they chose not to do so.

Why ?

IMO, the Thai government is losing face constantly and big time, over and over again, by repeatedly asking for his extradition whilst knowing at the same time those countries won't do it.

They also know that the so called conviction was, at least, biased and steered by the upper powers although nobody can prove so.

It's in the interest for Thailand that Thaksin stays out of the country, at least for the time being and time to come.

The riskiest time for Thailand comes when HM would pass away. The whole country better starts praying then for a good successor, if one is available, at all

LaoPo

[Thai at Heart]

If you cannot understand that Thaksin is running his campaign under the guise of "pro-democracy" when his real agenda is establishment change, then you are sincerely missing the point.

If he ran a campaign under "change" he would have been locked up 15 years ago. His only option now, is to fight under the guise of "democracy" because rather conveniently, the current government didn't get there through truly democratic means. His way of defeating them is at the ballot box.

Since I am not allowed to vote, I have no opinion either way, other than to say, that 70 odd years of democracy really didn't deliver too much to the poor so I don't blame them at all for following him.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[rixalex]

They also know that the so called conviction was, at least, biased and steered by the upper powers although nobody can prove so.

A general comment not necessarily directed at LaoPo...

People who are quick to declare the conviction as being trumped up, are often also the same people who are falling over themselves to remind everyone that he's only been convicted of one "trivial" offence, like that proves his innocence.

If you believe the justice system doesn't prove anything when people are found guilty, then nor does it at any other time.

[animatic]

He is convicted

by laws in place before the coup,

based on actions take before the coup.

How can one trump up a cut an dried conviction where

he and the wife signed the papers that gave the proof?

She bought land from a government auction of property,

he was not allowed to let her as his wife and as Prime Minister.

Done deal.

Simple as this he ignored the laws because

he thought he was too big to get popped.

Yet his overweaning arrogance gave others

the WILL to follow through prosecuting him.

Now of course he has potential instigating inssurection charges after Songkran.

Not to mention the multiple truck load of documents awaiting other court dates.

Gee he wants to come home but won't... till the red shirts help him...

Only one way they can... and it AIN'T PRETTY...

He has made his own bed and eventually must sleep in it,

no matter what good he may have done in Issan.

Edited July 14, 2009 by animatic

[Siripon]

[

So no, my question to you is simply this: Is Thaksin a democrat in the true sense of the word?

[/qote]

FWIW, nice answer, albelit a bit elusive. But you still haven't answered my question Is he or isn't he a democrat? Even Hitler needed to get elected (not that I am comparing them personally).

Yes he is. I have no reason to believe otherwise. He was the victim of anti-democrat forces. Their actions were not based on protecting Democracy, quite the contrary. After launching the Thaksin demonization campaign, they were as surprised as anyone that Thaksin's supporters were re-elected. I was flabbergasted. To see the Thai electorate overcome the anti-Thaksin propaganda, and overcome the media onslaught of anti-Thaksin coverage made me respectful of that electorate. They knew which politician had been the first to apply electoral democratic practices of incorporating the interests of the electorate instead of only those of certain powerful sectors of society, and they didn't forget. The notion that NE voters are a bunch of intellectually challenged dolts who have no idea what is in their best self-interest and will vote for whomever gives them 20 baht, is pure propaganda by those who need to eliminate electoral, one-person-one-vote democracy.

Do you know how Thaksin came to power?

After failing badly with Palang Tham who were trying to create a party of clean politicians, he bought the whole of Kwam Wang Mai, 80 or 90 MPs, with the exception of one MP. He then bought Chart Pattana, Seri Tham and a few others.

Big money bought those greedy MPs, Chavalit couldn't afford them.

Then Thaksin realised he had enough MPs to gain power, and to his credit was the first to propose policies.

But he was never a democrat.

Once he won the election that was the end of democracy.

He prevented further decentralisation, MPs had no freedom to vote, appointments were based purely on quotas.

Have you ever seen film of a cabinet meeting with Thaksin as chairman?

No one dare oppose the emperor.

All TV programmes questioning the government were removed.

All newspapers that published anti government sentiment had advertising withdrawn, both from government offices and from AIS.

Thaksin realised the votes of the poor in Isaan and the north were enough to keep him in power indefinitely- if only there were no checks and balances.

But there are and he ran away- a man with a lot to hide.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

IT WOULD NOT BE FARE IF THERE ARE LITTLE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT TAKSIN'S OPPONENTS. I MEANT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE LONG LINES OF DICTATORIAL GENERALS IN WHICH ALLIED THEMSELVES FOR YEARS.

MOST THAI WHO ARE AWARE OF LONG AND LONG HISTORY IN THAI POLOTICS AND MILITARISTIC INTERVENTIONS/INTERUPTIONS, WOULD NOT CARE ABOUT TAKSIN'S COURT CASES FOR THE EXTREMELY WEAK FACTUAL PREDICATED CRIMES.

WE ARE MUCH AND MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN SEEING THE THROUGH AND COMPLETE INVESTIGATION AND INDICTMENT OF THE FIDF CASE WHICH 'ACTUALLY' COSTED THE COUNTRY 2 MILLION MILLION BAHT IN FINANCIAL LOST. >> 2,000,000,000,000 BAHT << IN WHICH THE MAIN CAUSE MAY COME FROM THE MISHANDLING ADMINISTRATION AND MANAGEMENT OF THE OVERULING BEREAU, DURING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S GOVT

FYI, THE ACCUSED FIGURES (W/ HARD EVIDENCES) AROUND THE FDI CASE HAD LONG HELP CAMPAIGNED AGAINST TAKSIN, AND WERE WELL AWARDED WITH EXTREMELY STRONG POSITIONS, AND THE INVESTIGATIONS AND THE MEDIA HAD GONE UTTERLY SILENCED.

HATE THE JUNTA'S NETWORKS AND I'LL PREDICT THAT YOU'LL PROBABLY IGNORE MY POSE COS IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO HOLD THE DISCUSSION WITH THE ACTUAL THAI GURU ON THE POLITICS.

I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE THOSE FARANGS TAKSIN HATERS (IF YOU ARE REAL FARANGS) TO HELD THE POLITICAL DISSCUSSIONS WITH THE PEOPLE IN PANTIP.COM TO SEE HOW IT'D PLAY OUT. WE DO NOT MIND THE ENGLISH POSTS, OF COURSE. ^^

ThaiVisa does mind upper case postings.

[jayboy]

Do you know how Thaksin came to power?

After failing badly with Palang Tham who were trying to create a party of clean politicians, he bought the whole of Kwam Wang Mai, 80 or 90 MPs, with the exception of one MP. He then bought Chart Pattana, Seri Tham and a few others.

Big money bought those greedy MPs, Chavalit couldn't afford them.

Then Thaksin realised he had enough MPs to gain power, and to his credit was the first to propose policies.

But he was never a democrat.

Once he won the election that was the end of democracy.

He prevented further decentralisation, MPs had no freedom to vote, appointments were based purely on quotas.

Have you ever seen film of a cabinet meeting with Thaksin as chairman?

No one dare oppose the emperor.

All TV programmes questioning the government were removed.

All newspapers that published anti government sentiment had advertising withdrawn, both from government offices and from AIS.

Thaksin realised the votes of the poor in Isaan and the north were enough to keep him in power indefinitely- if only there were no checks and balances.

But there are and he ran away- a man with a lot to hide.

On the whole your portrayal of Thaksin's time in office is fair.However the cure (the criminal coup) was far worse than the disease.Furthermore the elite's hatred of Thaksin was based as much as their fear of vested interests being threatened as any love of democracy.The checks and balances you mention were in many cases as fraudulent as Thaksin.Finally whether you like it or not in a democratic system the North and the North East are going to dominate Thai politics.Get used to it.

[geriatrickid]

The question that is not being addressed is why did Malaysia help Mr. Thaksin out? Why is it that the Chinese an Singapore governments have not pounced on him when they had a chance and why none of the foreign governments has done anything to hinder him. Face it, when the UK, U.S.A, Australia etc. want to get at some political figure, they can make life pretty difficult for that person with asset seizures, interception, sanctions etc. And yet, there has been nothing. Mr. Thaksin travels the world and passes through the airspace of nations that could stop him if they wanted. They have grabbed others far wealthier and more connected than Mr. Thaksin.

I believe the reason is attributable to the genuine sympathy the major western nations have for Mr. Thaksin. No matter how imperfect he was, and he has plenty of failings and faults just like other leaders, he was still the duly elected leader of a nation overthrown in a military coup. The fact that the junta did not take action subsequent to its return to power against the PAD leaders who held tourists and a nation hostage to their demands served to demonstrate the tacit support of the junta for PAD as a junta proxy in the eyes of the foreign governments. For the other countries in the region, it's not about democracy, but stability. Under Thaksin, warts and all, the country was stable and there as an emphasis on economic development and education. The empaphsis on these two items was good news for regional development and trade partners because it meant that countries like China would have opportunities to participate in Thailand's growth and devolopment and to sell their goods and services. Now, there is nothing. No significant trade opportunities and no chance to sell expertise.

I do not think anyone presumed to be a defender of Mr.Thaksin on this thread would outright dismiss some of the allegations against him. I'm sure some of them have some validity. However, in the context of past and present power players in Thailand, Mr. Thaksin was certainly no worse and I believe was significantly better. Thailand's neighbours probably share that view as well. Hence, there is no stampede to lynch the man.

Mr. Thaksin did not antagonize neighbours like Malaysia and Cambodia with wild allegations. The idiots that made a mess out of the Cambodia border situation by not letting experienced diplomats and the PM resolve the matter only made other countries less willing to help the current government. Does anyone think that the regional neighbours are overly thrilled by Thailand's threats of military action against Cambodia?

The odd man out in this dance of the vested interests is the current PM who I am willing to bet wishes Mr. Thaksin would just go away and not come back to cause him grief.

Edited July 15, 2009 by geriatrickid

[Insight]

^ To quote SJ from another thread...

'No Thaksin protection'

BANGKOK - FORMER Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who fled the country after being handed a two-year jail term for graft, claimed he was given police security when he stayed overnight in Malaysia earlier this month. But this was flatly denied by the Malaysian police yesterday evening.

'My private jet stopped for refuelling in Malaysia and they sent 20 Special Branch policemen to guard me,' Thaksin said in a phone-in to a community radio station on Monday. 'They love and care about me.'

The Thai authorities had said earlier that the billionaire was in Malaysia on July 4 and had left the next day for Fiji before Thai police could take action. He reportedly ended his island-hopping in the South Pacific and flew back to Dubai last Friday.

But Malaysia's police chief Musa Hassan refuted Thaksin's claims. 'We were alerted by the Thai Embassy here of the fugitive's supposed presence early this month following a news report in Bangkok.

'As far as we are concerned, he was never in the country and we did not send 20 Special Branch officers to protect him. We have checked with local hotels, immigration and other sources, and there is no evidence to show that he was ever here.'

Thaksin has been in self-exile since he was convicted of corruption charges, and the Thai authorities have been trying to have him extradited to serve his jail sentence. Thailand had asked the Fijian government to arrest him after learning he was there, but it has no extradition treaty with Fiji.

- Straits Times (Malaysia) / 2009-07-15

[hammered]

The question that is not being addressed is why did Malaysia help Mr. Thaksin out? Why is it that the Chinese an Singapore governments have not pounced on him when they had a chance and why none of the foreign governments has done anything to hinder him. Face it, when the UK, U.S.A, Australia etc. want to get at some political figure, they can make life pretty difficult for that person with asset seizures, interception, sanctions etc. And yet, there has been nothing. Mr. Thaksin travels the world and passes through the airspace of nations that could stop him if they wanted. They have grabbed others far wealthier and more connected than Mr. Thaksin.

I believe the reason is attributable to the genuine sympathy the major western nations have for Mr. Thaksin. No matter how imperfect he was, and he has plenty of failings and faults just like other leaders, he was still the duly elected leader of a nation overthrown in a military coup. The fact that the junta did not take action subsequent to its return to power against the PAD leaders who held tourists and a nation hostage to their demands served to demonstrate the tacit support of the junta for PAD as a junta proxy in the eyes of the foreign governments. For the other countries in the region, it's not about democracy, but stability. Under Thaksin, warts and all, the country was stable and there as an emphasis on economic development and education. The empaphsis on these two items was good news for regional development and trade partners because it meant that countries like China would have opportunities to participate in Thailand's growth and devolopment and to sell their goods and services. Now, there is nothing. No significant trade opportunities and no chance to sell expertise.

I do not think anyone presumed to be a defender of Mr.Thaksin on this thread would outright dismiss some of the allegations against him. I'm sure some of them have some validity. However, in the context of past and present power players in Thailand, Mr. Thaksin was certainly no worse and I believe was significantly better. Thailand's neighbours probably share that view as well. Hence, there is no stampede to lynch the man.

Mr. Thaksin did not antagonize neighbours like Malaysia and Cambodia with wild allegations. The idiots that made a mess out of the Cambodia border situation by not letting experienced diplomats and the PM resolve the matter only made other countries less willing to help the current government. Does anyone think that the regional neighbours are overly thrilled by Thailand's threats of military action against Cambodia?

The odd man out in this dance of the vested interests is the current PM who I am willing to bet wishes Mr. Thaksin would just go away and not come back to cause him grief.

Few if any recent Thai leaders have overseen an extra-judicial campaign that resulted in over 2000 innocent people being killed. I use innocent carefully as in a democracy ( and I note that the Thaksin supporters say they want democracy) everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court so they were never judged for their misdeeds or lack of them. To me that policy alone is enough to leave a taste of disgust in the mouth and to recognise a lack of democratic credentials. Whether it was popular or not is irrelevent. Anyway to say he was not worse flies in the face of this.

By the way dont read too much into Thaksin not being arrested and extradited. Most countries in the world dont want to get involved with another internal affairs and would rather the problem just went away. Hence Thaksin's continual hop around the world. There is also the question of whether the Thai government has ever made or intends to make an extradition request.

[AnaisNin]

Published today in the Star. Someone is telling porkies. The Malayisa police or Thaksin?

---- - -- - -

thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/14/nation/20090714195430&sec=nation

Thaksin was never here: IGP

By LOURDES CHARLES

KUALA LUMPUR: Former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who is now a fugitive, was never in Malaysia nor was he given any protection by the Special Branch as he has claimed, Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Musa Hassan said.

Musa said Malaysian police had no knowledge of any visit by Thaksin, despite earlier reports quoting Deputy Interior Minister Thaworn Senneam as saying Thaksin had been spotted in Malaysia recently, but left the country before he could be arrested by the authorities.

Thaworn said Thai embassy officials had informed the Malaysian authorities to seek Thaksin’s arrest and extradition.

“We were only alerted by the Thai embassy here of the fugitive’s supposed presence early this month following a news report in Bangkok.

“As far as we are concerned, he was never in the country and we did not send 20 Special Branch officers to protect him. We have checked with local hotels, Immigration and other sources, and there is no evidence to show that he was ever here,’’ he said.

According to a report in Bangkok-based newspaper The Nation, Thaksin told a community radio that his private jet stopped in Kuala Lumpur on July 4 for refuelling and that 20 Special Branch officers were sent to protect him.

“They love and care about me,” Thaksin said in the newspaper report which was also picked up by a Malaysian news portal.

[Siripon]

On the whole your portrayal of Thaksin's time in office is fair.However the cure (the criminal coup) was far worse than the disease.Furthermore the elite's hatred of Thaksin was based as much as their fear of vested interests being threatened as any love of democracy.The checks and balances you mention were in many cases as fraudulent as Thaksin.Finally whether you like it or not in a democratic system the North and the North East are going to dominate Thai politics.Get used to it.

I would be delighted to see someone from Issan become PM, my hometown is Ban Phai, near Khon Kaen, but it should be someone from the grassroots with the long term interests of the people at heart, someone who improves farming and education.

Not a rich Chinese Thai who can't plant rice and has never lived in Issan.

[Geckos]

He stole Millions from the people of Thailand and was involved in thousands of innocent people being KILLED and yet these some people want him BACK !!!! If he gets back because you voted him back then you deserves everything that WILL happen to you !!! What a JOKE

[hammered]

I would be delighted to see someone from Issan become PM, my hometown is Ban Phai, near Khon Kaen, but it should be someone from the grassroots with the long term interests of the people at heart, someone who improves farming and education.

Not a rich Chinese Thai who can't plant rice and has never lived in Issan.

Well spoken. That though will take time. There are no quick fixes, and in the meatime the parlaiment and leadership of political movements will remain stuffed with the usual (rich) suspects.

[Gonzo the Face]

Thaksin was never in Malaysia.... So say the Mal. Immigration boys.

Thats political BS cover... Thaksin was never in Malaysia. That may be true, check out all the immigration entries.

But how about Somchai Somnutz or whatever name is on the currently used passport.

I would be willing to bet that he was in Malaysia but by using it as above, the Malaysia Immigration Dept is accurate and still have their cover story.

Thats the way things work here.....not the real truth,, but rather the fictional truth is what counts

[Sao Jiang Mai]

It's ironic that so many accuse the media of demonising and ganging up on Thaksin. Remember what he did to the media when he was in power? He tried to crush them. That's democratic? I have a magazine in Chiang Mai and I wrote scathing editorials about him pre 2001. There was no secret media, elite driven, conspiracy to victimise Thaksin. I, and many other members of the free press, simply didn't/don't trust him. And he has proven me correct in all of my doubts and suspicions. And can we get rid of this Palinesque paranoia about the elite conspiracy? Thaksin was the ultimate elite in Thailand. It is not just the elite who hate him. What about all the poor people in the south he never did a thing for? Are they not Thai citizens too? Or are Isaan people and their wishes the only people that matter in this country? Isaan and the upper north may have the power to vote in Thaksin, but what about how he treats the rest of the country? The fact of the matter is that Thaksin is divisive, and we don't need that. There maybe millions who love him, but if he returns there will be millions who will never accept him. Can we move on and try to find someone more acceptable to both sides rather than cling on to some (for some) fantasy figure who in reality has let all of us down?

[Crushdepth]

"My private jet stopped for refuelling in Malaysia and they sent 20 special-branch policemen to guard me. They love and care about me," Thaksin said in a phone-in

Where is the vomit smiley when I need it? Come home sweeeeeet Thaksin. We love you so much we have prepared special rent-free accomodation for you with big steel bars to keep you safe. And lots of guards, too!

[wayfarer108]

Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that these people have legitimate reasons for re-electing him and the Democratic Samak/Somchai Governments that followed.

You obviously don't understand Thai politics in Isan. They weren't dupes, they willingly played their part in the patronage system, starting with the Colonel at the top and working down to the local kaman or tambon admin.

Edited July 15, 2009 by wayfarer108

[emancipationthailand]

The question that is not being addressed is why did Malaysia help Mr. Thaksin out? Why is it that the Chinese an Singapore governments have not pounced on him when they had a chance and why none of the foreign governments has done anything to hinder him. Face it, when the UK, U.S.A, Australia etc. want to get at some political figure, they can make life pretty difficult for that person with asset seizures, interception, sanctions etc. And yet, there has been nothing. Mr. Thaksin travels the world and passes through the airspace of nations that could stop him if they wanted. They have grabbed others far wealthier and more connected than Mr. Thaksin.

I believe the reason is attributable to the genuine sympathy the major western nations have for Mr. Thaksin. No matter how imperfect he was, and he has plenty of failings and faults just like other leaders, he was still the duly elected leader of a nation overthrown in a military coup. The fact that the junta did not take action subsequent to its return to power against the PAD leaders who held tourists and a nation hostage to their demands served to demonstrate the tacit support of the junta for PAD as a junta proxy in the eyes of the foreign governments. For the other countries in the region, it's not about democracy, but stability. Under Thaksin, warts and all, the country was stable and there as an emphasis on economic development and education. The empaphsis on these two items was good news for regional development and trade partners because it meant that countries like China would have opportunities to participate in Thailand's growth and devolopment and to sell their goods and services. Now, there is nothing. No significant trade opportunities and no chance to sell expertise.

I do not think anyone presumed to be a defender of Mr.Thaksin on this thread would outright dismiss some of the allegations against him. I'm sure some of them have some validity. However, in the context of past and present power players in Thailand, Mr. Thaksin was certainly no worse and I believe was significantly better. Thailand's neighbours probably share that view as well. Hence, there is no stampede to lynch the man.

Mr. Thaksin did not antagonize neighbours like Malaysia and Cambodia with wild allegations. The idiots that made a mess out of the Cambodia border situation by not letting experienced diplomats and the PM resolve the matter only made other countries less willing to help the current government. Does anyone think that the regional neighbours are overly thrilled by Thailand's threats of military action against Cambodia?

The odd man out in this dance of the vested interests is the current PM who I am willing to bet wishes Mr. Thaksin would just go away and not come back to cause him grief.

Great writing! I believe that a whole lots of deprived citizens of Thailand including myself, are much appreciated of this very opinion coming from a foreigner.

_/\_

Btw, nobody here ever discuss on the FIDF case? T_T

[Explorer]

"My private jet stopped for refuelling in Malaysia and they sent 20 special-branch policemen to guard me. They love and care about me," Thaksin said in a phone-in

Just to clear things abit -

Malaysia Special Branch (based in Bukit Aman) only act as intel or to collect intel, they don't do close protection. The Special Task Force (or Unit Tindakan Khas (UTK)) does the protection task. Both are under the strict order of the Malaysia King and Malaysia Prime Minister's Office. Only if Malaysia wants to have a problem with the Thai govt in thier diplomatic relationship then the protection would be given.

Another note - The PM of Malaysia would only be given 6 - 8 man on watch at one time for close protection if he is out of the country or on domestic social visit, never even reach 20. Unless he is going to a war zone but that would be unlikely as the Malaysia Task Force would deny the visit while it is still in the planning stages.

Explorer

[TAWP]

So we know that Thaksin lies. Nothing new here.

Que the fans...

[hammered]

So we know that Thaksin lies. Nothing new here.

Que the fans...

Webboards will be seeing a fair few more of those as the PR plan goes into operation for whatever is planned for asset seizure time. There are specialised companies to "supply" positive PR on webboards. Not saying that it will be a major part of the plan but it will be there.

[animatic]

Another huge problem is that millions of people like him as PM..Mind boggling.

Quite simple; they were much better off under him and his proxies than they were under the previous Chuan Leekpai Democrat government and under this current majority Democrat coalition.

Thaksin's visit to Malaysia shows yet again the region's other governments aren't concerned about him nor do they fully recognise the current Thai government's charges for extradition and arrest.

Which democracies have so far banned Thaksin?

UK, Germany, Japan, can he actually get in the EU or USA?. He doesn't seem willing to try.

Reduced to lurking around juntas and authoritarian regimes, very fitting.

It would be very interesting to know the arm-twisting that took place between the paranoid Thai Government and those Governments who have acted against Thaksin. Business and international relations supercede many things. I have heard many stories from my pro-democracy friends in this regard, but find them unsubstantiated in the main.

No "arm twisting" needed.

They looked at their own laws and Thaksin's legal status in Thailand and

pronounced him persona no grata for being on the lam from a conviction

that is CLEARLY in the public domain, decided by a high court in open sessions.

One sovereign state applying it's own legal immirgation regulations on

a traveler with a legally recognized conviction in his own country.

Good enough for Martha Stewart good enough for Thaksin too.

Has nothing to do with democracy at all, just immigration law and convictions.

[animatic]

Do you know how Thaksin came to power?

After failing badly with Palang Tham who were trying to create a party of clean politicians, he bought the whole of Kwam Wang Mai, 80 or 90 MPs, with the exception of one MP. He then bought Chart Pattana, Seri Tham and a few others.

Big money bought those greedy MPs, Chavalit couldn't afford them.

Then Thaksin realised he had enough MPs to gain power, and to his credit was the first to propose policies.

But he was never a democrat.

Once he won the election that was the end of democracy.

He prevented further decentralisation, MPs had no freedom to vote, appointments were based purely on quotas.

Have you ever seen film of a cabinet meeting with Thaksin as chairman?

No one dare oppose the emperor.

All TV programmes questioning the government were removed.

All newspapers that published anti government sentiment had advertising withdrawn, both from government offices and from AIS.

Thaksin realised the votes of the poor in Isaan and the north were enough to keep him in power indefinitely- if only there were no checks and balances.

But there are and he ran away- a man with a lot to hide.

On the whole your portrayal of Thaksin's time in office is fair.However the cure (the criminal coup) was far worse than the disease.Furthermore the elite's hatred of Thaksin was based as much as their fear of vested interests being threatened as any love of democracy.The checks and balances you mention were in many cases as fraudulent as Thaksin.Finally whether you like it or not in a democratic system the North and the North East are going to dominate Thai politics.Get used to it.

One thing getting lost in the mix is that

Thaksin was ONLY Care Taker Prime Minister at time of coup.

He himself had called a snap election that was anulled essentially

by his Election Commissioners being over zealous in helping his party win.

They went to jail.

He called the snap election to validate his dodgy sale of Shin Corp.

He was not the elected PM because he had removed HIMSELF from that office

by calling a snap election.

The coup reset the clock, on an election fiasco.

Later Thaksin was convicted while

HIS OWN PROXY GOVERNMENT WAS IN POWER.

NOT during the coup junta period.

Edited July 15, 2009 by animatic