Tourism plunges 22 per cent

[dude007]

Amazing, it is all going to be solved in the next 4 months. Funny how the benefits of Tourism are always downplayed by the sock puppets, but in reality it is starting to bite. Well done, keep up the scams an other associated nonsense and they might even exceed these figures next year.

But the real problem why tourists are staying away is never mentioned: the many scams, rip-offs, cheatings and stealing of tourists, extorsion from police or other authorities like the recent one at the airport, and then these deplorable mutliple incidents like shootings, killings, raping of tourists, hijacking yachts in the bay, is resulting in tourism staying away.

How many Thaisch come to Phuket for tourism? Almost none, all tourists are farangs. That's why the Thaisch who have tourism business in Phuket are all ripping off and extorting the farang tourists, like the tuk-tuk maffia, the police, immigration regulations, intimidation, etc. That's why in Phuket you only have crazy prices if compared to Pattaya...

It's time for a serious clean up there because this place is getting a real bad name. Too many tourists leaving Phuket for returning home swear "Never ever anymore. Never here in my life anymore...".

How can the starting price from a tuk-tuk be 200 THB whilst in Bangkok you step in an A/C taxi for 35 THB starting price... ??? Do they really think that farangs are that stupid? Why is a taxi drive between the airport and Patong 2x the price as in Bangkok between Suvarnabhumi and downtown (and that is still modest)? Why the Thai middle finger in the Phuket traffic is the most used for showing the Farang tourists? What's wrong with this tourist area?

Forget the economic crisis, the H1N1 flu, the disturbing ASEAN conference, the political crisis and turmoil (in every country people come out in the streets: they have the right to do), but open your eyes and stop cheating foreign tourists for the greed... or is it already too late? It will surely take more than 4 months, despite the statement from the DG of TAT.

[ParadiseLost]

But the real problem why tourists are staying away is never mentioned: the many scams, rip-offs, cheatings and stealing of tourists, extorsion from police or other authorities like the recent one at the airport, and then these deplorable mutliple incidents like shootings, killings, raping of tourists, hijacking yachts in the bay, is resulting in tourism staying away.

These things are happening in every country in the world, likely no more or less than here. I find Thailand a safer country than most I have visited. When have you, or any of the posters here experienced such violence? The only violence I have experienced was drunken farang.

How many Thaisch come to Phuket for tourism? Almost none, all tourists are farangs. That's why the Thaisch who have tourism business in Phuket are all ripping off and extorting the farang tourists, like the tuk-tuk maffia, the police, immigration regulations, intimidation, etc. That's why in Phuket you only have crazy prices if compared to Pattaya...

Try Tenerriffe, Italy, Greece etc. if you don't have a EU/UK/USA passport.

Phuket prices should definitely be higher - Pattaya is hardly the international destination of choice for people with taste.

How can the starting price from a tuk-tuk be 200 THB whilst in Bangkok you step in an A/C taxi for 35 THB starting price... ??? Do they really think that farangs are that stupid? Why is a taxi drive between the airport and Patong 2x the price as in Bangkok between Suvarnabhumi and downtown (and that is still modest)? Why the Thai middle finger in the Phuket traffic is the most used for showing the Farang tourists? What's wrong with this tourist area?

As a farang, these fares should hardly concern you. If you do work here you are 99% likely to earn a very decent wage, but even if not; Phuket is a very desirable location, compare these prices to Caribbean islands, or equally exclusive holiday destinations and you will find they are very reasonable.

As for people's attitude, I agree; but then I can sympathise with some Thai who get to deal with rude and disrespectful tourists every day... Now I am not saying all tourists are so, but you know there are many.

Forget the economic crisis, the H1N1 flu, the disturbing ASEAN conference, the political crisis and turmoil (in every country people come out in the streets: they have the right to do), but open your eyes and stop cheating foreign tourists for the greed... or is it already too late? It will surely take more than 4 months, despite the statement from the DG of TAT.

Perhaps 4 years. But that goes for the rest of the world as well.

[zzaa09]

What might be the real percentage {not invented nor make-believe} of the tourism industry that actually affects everyday Thai?

[Hermano Lobo]

They probably mean, after all those friendly Japanese tourists left in 1945 ?

[Oberkommando]

These things are happening in every country in the world, likely no more or less than here. I find Thailand a safer country than most I have visited. When have you, or any of the posters here experienced such violence? The only violence I have experienced was drunken farang.

The only violence I have experienced was drunken Thai.

As a farang, these fares should hardly concern you. If you do work here you are 99% likely to earn a very decent wage, but even if not; Phuket is a very desirable location, compare these prices to Caribbean islands, or equally exclusive holiday destinations and you will find they are very reasonable.

As for people's attitude, I agree; but then I can sympathise with some Thai who get to deal with rude and disrespectful tourists every day... Now I am not saying all tourists are so, but you know there are many.

Apologist nonsense.

[WeeGB]

"dude007"? "Thaisch"??

Welcome to the forum Mr Connery.

[zzaa09]

These things are happening in every country in the world, likely no more or less than here. I find Thailand a safer country than most I have visited. When have you, or any of the posters here experienced such violence? The only violence I have experienced was drunken farang.

The only violence I have experienced was drunken Thai.

Apologists nonsense

[JR Texas]

These things are happening in every country in the world, likely no more or less than here. I find Thailand a safer country than most I have visited. When have you, or any of the posters here experienced such violence? The only violence I have experienced was drunken farang.

The only violence I have experienced was drunken Thai.

Apologists nonsense

Way too many apologists on TV (think many are simply involved in real estate and don't want reality to reach the public).

Speaking of reality, the UN just did a study on tourism worldwide........here is something that people might find interesting. This what they said in a recent publication:

From UNWTO (vol. 7, 2, 2009 June):

"Despite this overall decline, several destinations around the world still reported encouraging results for the first four months of 2009, notably Morocco, Tunisia, Kenya...Mexico, Cuba, Jamaica, ....Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Chile, Columbia, Paraguay, Uruguay, the Republic of Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Macedonia, Serbia, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria....."

Note: MALAYSIA........where is it located? Why is tourism better there than in nearby Thailand?

Some places are not being negatively impacted in the same way Thailand is.

There are reasons for that and none have to do with the global economic downturn and Swine Flu, both of which are also impacting Malaysia.

Reality check...........

[huskerpr]

I really don't think the tourism decrease can be attributed to the polical unrest and swine flu. Maybe to a small degree, but not to an all time low. I think this government needs to look at several items.

The exchange rate for the baht is horrible

The prices for lodging and services is becoming outrageous. $100 a night for hotels in Thailand. Please

Thai Air is probably one of the highest priced airlines going in th world right now.

ANd then there is the problem of gaining a visa, dual entry, just not conducive to the tourist.

As a farang married to a Thai lady, the fact that they are making it harder for us to buy property or transferring money just to support our wives and children has alot to do with why go to Thailand? They have made a very unappealing place to come to.

The Thai governement needs to wake up and smell the coffee, there are places such as Vietname to visit that are just as nice and far less expensive same with the Philippines. Thailand is pricing and governing themselves out of the tourism market.

I hope someone from the government is listening.

[wintermute]

The exchange rate for the baht is horrible

The prices for lodging and services is becoming outrageous. $100 a night for hotels in Thailand. Please

Thai Air is probably one of the highest priced airlines going in th world right now.

ANd then there is the problem of gaining a visa, dual entry, just not conducive to the tourist.

Exchange rate is actually just fine with the USD. It's problematic with the pound etc.. but that is a complex issue and beyond the control of the thai central bank.

You have a point about lodging and i'd say $50-75 seems more in line with the quality i've seen for your average 3-4 star hotel in Thailand. Of course i'm not including the real high end joints like the Oriental or anything.

However, you do tend to get a pretty good deal for what you pay for. I have stayed at 4 star hotels in Thailand for around $50 before.

Thai airways is very overpriced and i'm not sure what their marketing premise is but they lag far behind cathay, singapore air, eva, in general quality, entertainment, price, etc.. Thai airways does have a very good safety record though from what i've read.

Tourist visas are easy to get so i'm not sure what the problem is. If you're one of those guys who stays years on tourist visas then this might be an issue but I think long stay "tourists" are a very small minority.

The Thai governement needs to wake up and smell the coffee, there are places such as Vietname to visit that are just as nice and far less expensive same with the Philippines. Thailand is pricing and governing themselves out of the tourism market.

The people are also far less amicable in Vietnam and it doesn't have half the modern infrastructure or conveniences that Thailand has. The Phillipines is unfortunately a corrupt dirty dingehole even if the people are nice. Your other alternative is to live in some small beach town somewhere in the Phillipines but you can find that in Thailand too with less crime and inconveniences.

Let's face it even with the drawbacks Thailand comes out ahead in most scenarios.

[catmac]

"The Phillipines is unfortunately a corrupt dirty dingehole even if the people are nice."

Sounds like a perfect description of Thailand!

[robenroute]

One reason is the highwaymen they call the traffic police. I was ambushed for 200 baht yesterday when I pulled into the outer lane of a dual carriageway to overtake a line of slower moving cars. They said I spent too much time in the overtaking lane! Waste of time to argue with them so I gave them their lunch money, my children who were in the car with me on a visit from UK were left speechless. I just told them TIT.

Wow!! 200 baht! 4 pounds!

Only you will know if what you did was actually an offense, but perhaps the biggest crime you commit is to instill your pathetic superior attitude towards police into your kids: "Who does he think he is!!". This attitude is so common in the UK I wonder how you have anyone wanting to join the police at all.

Pardon my French, but what kind of moronic statement is this? The only thing jesimps wrote is that he/she told his/her kids that this is Thailand. How you come to your interpretation is truly mind-boggling...

Have a nice Sunday evening, you all.

[sunnythai]

Just got back from LOS and stay in the area of soy 4 and the hotel was completely book for the whole time I was there...........did not seem to hurt that area..

[madi]

Of course things have changed.

The world is always in change.

The Golden era is over in many ways for visiting Thailand.

Too many tourists helped to wreck it. The Thai people responded as expected/

Prices have risen on everything.

A beer 10 years ago was 60 baht or so in a watering hole.

It now will cost you closer to 140 baht or more.

Short-time friendship HAA HAA

Oh yeah the price of that has more than doubled.

Hotels--doubled

Taxi rates--doubled

Now throw into play the fact that the Thai baht is much stronger against many currencies than it was 10 years ago and you of course do not have the same game in town now.

There are many other factors that have changed things.

Internet of course has taken the old things and thrown them out.

Markets came into play

Law of supply and demand was brought in to the market and the supply and quality of products saw the price go up.

Not only that but the vast majority of the game is exported out for good to other nations.

The same game goes on everywhere in the world.

Also--last thoughts

The political mess has not helped things. It certainly was a stupid idea to make it difficult for men under 50 to stay for longer periods in Thailand. Back 10 years ago before the Visa rules were enforced, we would see tons of young men here from the west. Now we do not. Why? The visa rules along with the prices are to blame.

Predictions?

The future is never certain anywhere. Economies go up and down. World powers rise and fall.

If Thailand develops and prices go up, the tourism here will change forever.

But if the place collapses into an economic wreck and prices become more in line with what is seen in the Philippines, Thailand could again become a party destination. it all comes down to the exchange rates and the economy.

If I had to bet one or the other--I would bet on a collapse at some point soon.

We all know what could happen if a power vacuum were to occur here as likely will happen at some point.

The Reds and the Yellows could rip into one another and turn the nation into an even worse mess than the Philippines.

Imagine the Thai baht twice as weak as now.

Of course the unemployment rate would be huge.

BUT--for tourists the PARTY would begin again.

[xenophon]

Althoug a new member of Thai-wing-er, I mean Thaivisa, I've been in thailand since 1979, working in Bkk, and there certainly were no where near 11 million tourists in those days. The "old days" were not particularly good, especially for reformist Thais. Unfortunately things have got worse.

I have noticed a worrying growth of ethnocentrism among thai friends and thai bureaucrats over the years. What was previously just simple 3rd world incompetence, ignorance and insularity has been translated into jingoistic prejudiced policy. This is now heavily leavened with the lawlessness which has always permeated Thai society from the top to the bottom - a very nasty mix, e.g. the treatment of some foreigners at the airport.

There is no Lee Kuan Yew on the horizon (thankfully perhaps), so I don't see any change for the better soon. The pigs at the top are simply rearranging their positions at the National slop bucket, which they always did anyway. the cops, immigration and customs are worse than before and some things, e.g. the educationsystem, are speeding backwards. I am starting to think of taking my own, previousl smug, advice to the wingeing, "do you have a passport? Do you know where the airport is? Well, have a good trip!"

[Oberkommando]

It's just no fun any more.

[metisdead]

"The Phillipines is unfortunately a corrupt dirty dingehole even if the people are nice."

Sounds like a perfect description of Thailand!

For what it's worth, I went to the Philippines way back in the late 80's, only a few times, Thailand vs. Phillipines on a personal comparison test. The national cuisine didn't impress me at all. Go to a beach side resort and the restaurant only has 1 item of seafood on the menu?!?!?!?!? IMHO, when the US Military pulled out the degradation turned into a landslide. I think to this day that Thailand is the better option.

[xenophon]

It's just no fun any more.

Yes, that's almost right. Of course it is still fun, but even with better-than-average Thai language, I am having more hassles than over th e past 30 years and having to parry far more rip-off attempts.

Part of it may be explained by there being more chickens (tourists) available for the plucking but I really believe that people have changed in other ways. Because there is no education system to equip people to make judgements that weigh alternatives, they degenerate to the level of the 'football hooligan' or 'redneck' (less violent perhaps). Thus they end up with absurd stereotypes of foreigners as stupid, targets and undermenschen.

Irrespective of the genesis of this change, the consequences are a pain in the arse. On the other hand, as I say to taxi drivers who ask shob meung thai na?, ... baat sip per cent. So I won't take my own smug adivce about the airport yet (but I have been thinking about it).

[vedantafx]

Of course things have changed.

The world is always in change.

The Golden era is over in many ways for visiting Thailand.

Too many tourists helped to wreck it. The Thai people responded as expected/

Prices have risen on everything.

A beer 10 years ago was 60 baht or so in a watering hole.

It now will cost you closer to 140 baht or more.

Short-time friendship HAA HAA

Oh yeah the price of that has more than doubled.

Hotels--doubled

Taxi rates--doubled

In the UK ten years ago, a pint was under £2, now it is nearly £4, is this unique to Thailand?

Taxi prices have doubled here also...

House prices went up nearly 200%, and in some areas nearly 400%!!

So we have had price increases all over the world. I m not disagreeing with you. I expect the baht to be quite strong in the coming years, but relative to what? Well, I m diversifying into real assets, silver, gold, agricultural commodities, some yen in the short term. I m not positive on many currencies, including the baht, but I think the situation with pound sterling is precarious, so having the same purchasing power as few years ago in baht ( and hopefully more) is of paramount importance, and I see being properly positioned is the key to staying up with prices all over the world, including Thailand.

[vedantafx]

It's just no fun any more.

So why waste your time even coming onto a Thailand dedicated forum? I m not having a go, just seems counter productive way to spend your time. Personally, I have fun in Thailand. Having fun and a good experience is down to the individual whereever you are. The great blessing than humans have been gifted is that we possess an intellect to guide. One can go whereever they want to go. If you are not having fun, then vote with your feet so to speak, the world is a big place. Just seems pointless coming on to a Thai website and reinforcing your on negativity on yourself.

[wintermute]

"The Phillipines is unfortunately a corrupt dirty dingehole even if the people are nice."

Sounds like a perfect description of Thailand!

For what it's worth, I went to the Philippines way back in the late 80's, only a few times, Thailand vs. Phillipines on a personal comparison test. The national cuisine didn't impress me at all. Go to a beach side resort and the restaurant only has 1 item of seafood on the menu?!?!?!?!? IMHO, when the US Military pulled out the degradation turned into a landslide. I think to this day that Thailand is the better option.

Food quality, safety, living standards, and even cost of living is all inferior to Thailand in my opinion. This hasn't changed although they do offer more than 1 seafood on the menu these days. Filipino food is still terrible. As far as the people goes it's a toss up like anywhere else. Filipinos are much more "westernized" which can be good or bad depending on your point of view. I don't think it's a positive thing to be honest.

[JR Texas]

Of course things have changed.

The world is always in change.

The Golden era is over in many ways for visiting Thailand.

Too many tourists helped to wreck it. The Thai people responded as expected/

Prices have risen on everything.

A beer 10 years ago was 60 baht or so in a watering hole.

It now will cost you closer to 140 baht or more.

Short-time friendship HAA HAA

Oh yeah the price of that has more than doubled.

Hotels--doubled

Taxi rates--doubled

In the UK ten years ago, a pint was under £2, now it is nearly £4, is this unique to Thailand?

Taxi prices have doubled here also...

House prices went up nearly 200%, and in some areas nearly 400%!!

So we have had price increases all over the world. I m not disagreeing with you. I expect the baht to be quite strong in the coming years, but relative to what? Well, I m diversifying into real assets, silver, gold, agricultural commodities, some yen in the short term. I m not positive on many currencies, including the baht, but I think the situation with pound sterling is precarious, so having the same purchasing power as few years ago in baht ( and hopefully more) is of paramount importance, and I see being properly positioned is the key to staying up with prices all over the world, including Thailand.

By the way, Madi had a good post earlier.......but in response to this post, the UK is a developed country, Thailand is a developing country on the decline. It is almost fruitless to compare the two in terms of price increases.

Certainly, Thailand's price increases are not sustainable, are not linked to better products/services, and are putting normal items out of the reach of the bulk of the population (debt is at record levels).

The price increases have also hurt tourism........Thailand used to be thought of a both "fun and inexpensive." Now that is not the case........and that is why many tourists are going elsewhere to spend their money.

Thailand's response is to try to increase tourism inside the country (i.e., by Thais.) That will not work because they are all hurting financially--except, of course, the top 1% who own 99% of the wealth of the country.

Thailand's other response is to try to increase tourism from nearby countries (e.g., India). That is a good idea. People on a budget are trying to save money on airfares........that is why northern Africa is seeing an increase in tourism (from European countries) and South and Central America are doing OK (from the USA).

But unless they alter the insane visa rules, they will continue to lose an important segment of their tourist base: the long stay expat tourists who come and go at a moments notice and don't like having to bother with complicated visa systems (and really don't like having to leave the country to get a stupid visa stamp).

Both the Philippines and Cambodia are welcoming them (so are many other countries). Thailand, in contrast, is trying to portray them as "criminals," who are violating the visa rules.

That policy is stupid beyond imagination, especially at a time when Thailand needs foreign dollars.

[wintermute]

Part of it may be explained by there being more chickens (tourists) available for the plucking but I really believe that people have changed in other ways. Because there is no education system to equip people to make judgements that weigh alternatives, they degenerate to the level of the 'football hooligan' or 'redneck' (less violent perhaps). Thus they end up with absurd stereotypes of foreigners as stupid, targets and undermenschen.

Or perhaps the behavior in the past decade of farang in Thailand has caused people to change their behavior for the worst as well.

[zzaa09]

It's just no fun any more.

But for us long-timers, it needs to be real and practical first. The fun will follow. Wannabes just see it as a passing fancy.

[zzaa09]

"The Phillipines is unfortunately a corrupt dirty dingehole even if the people are nice."

Sounds like a perfect description of Thailand!

The two cannot even be compared.

[Detox]

"The Phillipines is unfortunately a corrupt dirty dingehole even if the people are nice."

Sounds like a perfect description of Thailand!

For what it's worth, I went to the Philippines way back in the late 80's, only a few times, Thailand vs. Phillipines on a personal comparison test. The national cuisine didn't impress me at all. Go to a beach side resort and the restaurant only has 1 item of seafood on the menu?!?!?!?!? IMHO, when the US Military pulled out the degradation turned into a landslide. I think to this day that Thailand is the better option.

Food quality, safety, living standards, and even cost of living is all inferior to Thailand in my opinion. This hasn't changed although they do offer more than 1 seafood on the menu these days. Filipino food is still terrible. As far as the people goes it's a toss up like anywhere else. Filipinos are much more "westernized" which can be good or bad depending on your point of view. I don't think it's a positive thing to be honest.

IMO, The Philippines is not close to Thailand in anyway shape or form... The food is very poor, the poverty is more extreme and in general not many people look that happy compared to Thailand. Not many smiling faces unfortunately.

[zzaa09]

IMO, The Philippines is not close to Thailand in anyway shape or form... The food is very poor, the poverty is more extreme and in general not many people look that happy compared to Thailand. Not many smiling faces unfortunately.

....all this is true, and they have a better suppressing government infrastructure as well.

[wintermute]

IMO, The Philippines is not close to Thailand in anyway shape or form... The food is very poor, the poverty is more extreme and in general not many people look that happy compared to Thailand. Not many smiling faces unfortunately.

I agree and here's the difference in poverty.. in the Phillipines you'll see a whole family of (real) beggars living at a dumpster site frying up the bones of leftover chicken they found in the trash to make a meal. In Thailand they can at least go to the temple to get food and there's still plenty of basic aid available to people.

In the Phillipines the wealth gap between rich and poor is so wide and the attitude towards the poor is so low that people are far more desperate. At least in the poorest areas of Thailand people still have some land in most cases. Such is often not the case in the Phillipines. Crime, drug abuse, etc.. is also much much higher than Thailand.

[wintermute]

IMO, The Philippines is not close to Thailand in anyway shape or form... The food is very poor, the poverty is more extreme and in general not many people look that happy compared to Thailand. Not many smiling faces unfortunately.

....all this is true, and they have a better suppressing government infrastructure as well.

The Phillipines regularly tops the charts in the UN corruption index. If you think the "hi-so" in Thailand are bad wait until you meet some really rich socialite type Filipinos.

[brahmburgers]

It's just no fun any more.

So why waste your time even coming onto a Thailand dedicated forum? I m not having a go, just seems counter productive way to spend your time. Personally, I have fun in Thailand. Having fun and a good experience is down to the individual whereever you are. The great blessing than humans have been gifted is that we possess an intellect to guide. One can go wherever they want to go. If you are not having fun, then vote with your feet so to speak, the world is a big place. Just seems pointless coming on to a Thai website and reinforcing your on negativity on yourself.

Just as beach resorts come and go, so too people keep moving to places they prefer. However, it's a finite world, though not to say a place that was 'fun' 120 years ago cannot once again be 'fun' at a later epoch. Much of enjoyment stems from an individual's inner characteristics - rather than seeking it from 'outside'. You can enter the pinball machine, and get knocked around/pinged by others and have 'fun' or you can become your own spiritual pinball machine - precluding the need to have outside influences to zap your world.

IMO, The Philippines is not close to Thailand in anyway shape or form... The food is very poor, the poverty is more extreme and in general not many people look that happy compared to Thailand. Not many smiling faces unfortunately.

I've only been to the Philippines once, for 3 weeks 20 years ago. I went to see some ladies I'd been corresponding with as part of a Lonely Hearts Club. Every one of the 5 or 6 islands I went, up and down the archapeligo, the dynamic was essentially: the women had this prudent Catholic idea of how ideal men should be, and the men were incessantly getting drunk and chasing girls, so it was a continual unresolved carousel of tension which led to fighting and misery. One side effect is the Pope-sanctioned popping out of endless numbers of little Catholics, nearly all without fathers. The other is, obviously; deep-set poverty.