The Stock Market

[Gambles]

PPT clean up ailse 6

Ah I see your on it....Good boys

Impressive too.... 10,200 to 9800 & back to 10200 in what 4 minutes?

love to find out more about the 'errant trades'....

[flying]

PPT clean up ailse 6

Ah I see your on it....Good boys

Impressive too.... 10,200 to 9800 & back to 10200 in what 4 minutes?

love to find out more about the 'errant trades'....

I dont believe there were any errant trades.

That is the story they want to feed but ................

First they pointed at CITI saying it was them & they mistakenly added a zero when they wanted to sell 6 million & sold 6 billion.

Well we all know it is quite a bit more than one zero to make that mistake.

Also Citi came out soon after & said no way was it them.

Could be the curtain was accidentally blown open today & folks will see how manipulated things are.....Even more than those who say Oh the market was always manipulated imagined.

Perhaps just a machine going nuts based on how fast the market was falling perhaps not. Maybe a test to see reaction times?

It just gets more bizarre by the day.

I was sitting on my rollers spinning/exercising & watched the whole thing flashing by in so few minutes it was impressive.

PS: Those who thought they sold today will have to re-sell tomorrow?

Nasdaq, NYSE to Cancel Some Trades From Selloff

Nasdaq Operations said it will cancel all trades executed between 2:40 p.m. to 3 p.m. showing a rise or fall of more than 60 percent from the last trade in that security at 2:40 p.m or immediately prior.

Nasdaq said the stocks affected and break points will be disseminated soon.

Separately, the New York Stock Exchange also said that it will cancel all trades executed between 2:40 p.m. and 3 p.m. that were more than 60 percent away from their last print at 2:40 p.m.

Edited May 7, 2010 by flying

[midas]

PPT clean up ailse 6

Ah I see your on it....Good boys

Impressive too.... 10,200 to 9800 & back to 10200 in what 4 minutes?

Another green shoot rally ?

[badge]

An amazing session in US. Inexcusably I slept through it all and had no orders to cover, and calls are for Europe to open just a couple of % lower.

I guess the message is that one should leave ambitious limit orders to cover, even on stock indices thesedays!

[Carmine6]

PPT clean up ailse 6

Ah I see your on it....Good boys

Impressive too.... 10,200 to 9800 & back to 10200 in what 4 minutes?

love to find out more about the 'errant trades'....

I dont believe there were any errant trades.

That is the story they want to feed but ................

First they pointed at CITI saying it was them & they mistakenly added a zero when they wanted to sell 6 million & sold 6 billion.

Well we all know it is quite a bit more than one zero to make that mistake.

Also Citi came out soon after & said no way was it them.

Could be the curtain was accidentally blown open today & folks will see how manipulated things are.....Even more than those who say Oh the market was always manipulated imagined.

Perhaps just a machine going nuts based on how fast the market was falling perhaps not. Maybe a test to see reaction times?

It just gets more bizarre by the day.

I was sitting on my rollers spinning/exercising & watched the whole thing flashing by in so few minutes it was impressive.

PS: Those who thought they sold today will have to re-sell tomorrow?

Nasdaq, NYSE to Cancel Some Trades From Selloff

Nasdaq Operations said it will cancel all trades executed between 2:40 p.m. to 3 p.m. showing a rise or fall of more than 60 percent from the last trade in that security at 2:40 p.m or immediately prior.

Nasdaq said the stocks affected and break points will be disseminated soon.

Separately, the New York Stock Exchange also said that it will cancel all trades executed between 2:40 p.m. and 3 p.m. that were more than 60 percent away from their last print at 2:40 p.m.

2 things that came up on CNBC very soon afterwards that they now seem to not want to report. They're going with the "error" story.

1 - The dollar/yen had a sharp move that preceded the sell off. Graph it out for yesterday and the move 94 yen/$ to below 90 actually preceded the market sell off. I remember someone commenting on the yen and other currency moves before the sell off. CNBC graphed them together although other than pointing out the yen move preceded the stock sell of they didn't really have commentary on it.

I just saw a reporter on CNBC World that said the yen move coincided with the stock market sell off. That's flat wrong.

2 - The CEO of the NYSE did an interview after the close, and said the big drops happened through electronic exchanges not on the trading floor. What happened is when the selling started (for whatever reason) and the prices were getting crazy the market makers stop filling orders to wait for prices to stabilize. He called it a pause, not a halt. 90 second pause or something along those lines.

He said the electronic exchanges don't have to follow the NYSE lead and can keep trading. So obviously if the guys in NY aren't trading, the electronic orders go find any open buy orders even if someone had a crazy offer price.

Video:

http://classic.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video...0975&play=1

Transcript:

http://classic.cnbc.com/id/37004249

Note he says, "Today we had to slow the market down. We also have the right to slow down the market as appropriate". That's all fine, but if they're going to halt trading in NY, they should halt for everyone.

[flying]

Note he says, "Today we had to slow the market down. We also have the right to slow down the market as appropriate". That's all fine, but if they're going to halt trading in NY, they should halt for everyone.

I think there are going to be some pissed folks tomorrow.

Some that were in that get canceled & others do not.

Yet many of the ones that did not (get cancelled ) also lost big money.

Look at this list from just the Naz

http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodg...g-trades-2010-5

[lannarebirth]

Note he says, "Today we had to slow the market down. We also have the right to slow down the market as appropriate". That's all fine, but if they're going to halt trading in NY, they should halt for everyone.

I think there are going to be some pissed folks tomorrow.

Some that were in that get canceled & others do not.

Yet many of the ones that did not (get cancelled ) also lost big money.

Look at this list from just the Naz

http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodg...g-trades-2010-5

Remember back in 2001 when the WorldCom repairman accidentally tripped over the power plug and shut down the NASDAQ exchange? That bit of bullshit cost me 40k. Got repaid many fold yesterday. All is forgiven.

[flying]

Remember back in 2001 when the WorldCom repairman accidentally tripped over the power plug and shut down the NASDAQ exchange? That bit of bullshit cost me 40k. Got repaid many fold yesterday. All is forgiven.

:D

[Gambles]

Remember back in 2001 when the WorldCom repairman accidentally tripped over the power plug and shut down the NASDAQ exchange? That bit of bullshit cost me 40k. Got repaid many fold yesterday. All is forgiven.

Not sure that I agree with this but.....

<H3 class=serendipity_date>Friday, May 7. 2010</H3>Posted by Karl Denninger in Editorial at 09:15

(Page 1 of 430, totaling 2149 entries) » next page <H4 class=serendipity_title>More On Yesterday's Plunge</H4>If you had any doubt about what I have been talking about during this entire ramp job off 666 - that the so-called "bull market" was in fact not much more than a handful of institutions buying shares with free Fed money and passing them between one another hoping to distribute them to you - you should be thoroughly disabused of your skepticism after yesterday.

"Revenge of the algorithms" writ large, basically.

We keep talking about how financial innovation has "helped consumers", "helped businesses" and "made markets more efficient."

Let me put this in nice, large letters for you:

That claim is one big fat LIE.

If you need anything more after yesterday to understand that all these "algos" have done is create systemic risk and permit a handful of very large institutions to siphon off more and more of your money into their pockets like an insane hoover vacuum cleaner on steroids, you need a lobotomy.

The crooners are of course out in force this morning, among them Jeff Immelt:

“This is a point in time when the world needs the U.S. to be a beacon of stability, a beacon of reliability,” Immelt said during an interview at the 92nd Street Y in New York with Norman Pearlstine, chairman of Bloomberg Businessweek. “The world doesn’t need the U.S. in a food fight right now, with everything that’s going on in Europe. We should be the safe harbor.”

But what's his definition of this? Why, to make sure GE can continue to siphon off more and more money from the productive economy via GE Capital!

“Financial services is a very important industry in this country,” Immelt said. “Goldman Sachs has been a partner to GE for a long time. We trust them, they’ve done great work for us.”

Yep - hinky derivatives deals are great for Goldman, and might be great for GE as well. For the rest of the world that actually produces something? Not so much.

“This point about damning Wall Street isn’t good for the American economy,” Immelt said.

“Some theoreticians that convinced themselves that you can have a great, productive country that has no technology or manufacturing base -- they’re just wrong,” Immelt said. “And I hope that gets beaten into the head of every American. Not that we’re anywhere close to Europe, but there are things that are going on there that ought to be cautionary tales for us.”

Ah, now there's some truth! But where are all these things being made that Immelt is talking about? In America? Uh, no.

This is the problem in a nutshell, on a macro level. We have replaced factories with Wall Street scams. We have allowed Wall Street to take a few million dollar project in Jefferson County Alabama and turn it into a multi-hundred million dollar boondoggle that winds up costing the taxpayer massive multiples of the actual cost of the productive and necessary improvements to infrastructure.

In Greece this sort of chicanery has led to riots when the government, in bed with the thieves, decided to demand that their citizens pay for the scams and frauds. The people have said no, and intend to enforce their perspective. We'll see who wins that one, and whether the Greeks control the government, or whether the government controls the people.

If the latter, the Greeks live under tyranny, not a representative government.

There was no glitch yesterday. What happened was a simple bid collapse. Selling was already going on to the tune of some 300 DOW points before the plunge. The FX markets - that is, the currency markets - where undergoing extreme levels of volatility.

But the algorithms - that is, automated computer trading systems that represent the so-called "innovation" that the big banks want to make dam_n sure continue to skim off pieces of the productive economy for them, triggered off and drove enough SELL orders to collapse all bids.

On a technical level what happened in the DOW is easy: NBBO, or national best bid and offer, was proved to be a JOKE.

That is, when the NYSE specialist system went into "slow mode", which they do as a protective measure, electronic trading went around it into the "second market."

That's nonsense - the premise of NBBO is that this is simply not supposed to happen, in that if I come to buy I'm supposed to get the best bid, and if I sell I'm supposed to get the best offer. When NBBO is circumvented by computer systems that are allowed to "trade around" the specialists that have started examining what's going on you have a market that gets instantly gamed by the computers and in this case it caused a crash.

But on a fundamental level there's a bigger problem, and it goes back to what I've been talking about for the last three years.

We committed a serious error worldwide during 2008 and early 2009. Instead of forcing bankrupt financial firms to eat their own cooking and fail, backstopping only depositors and spending a couple of trillion dollars on that (while literally closing the big banks) we instead decided to hide their insolvency through outright accounting fraud (getting rid of "mark to market") and transferring risk to sovereign balance sheets.

You can fix an illiquid system with more liquidity. But if the problem is insolvency - that is, firms have more debt than they have assets and are in fact bankrupt then more liquidity makes the problem worse!

Why? Because all liquidity is in fact debt.

You can't add more debt to someone that has too much debt and make their situation better. It makes the situation worse! Accounting gimmicks only work for a while, in that they can change how one reports assets and liabilities but cash flow can't be altered by accounting gimmicks.

Ultimately, cash flow always wins. As I have repeatedly pointed out when evaluating a business I first spend my time on the income statement and cash flow figures. You're never going to get away with fudging the deposit tickets at the bank, and the money you claim to have either exists or it does not, and is easily verified.

President Obama had the opportunity to come into office and close every large financial institution that, on a mark-to-market basis, was insolvent. This would have included (and still does include) virtually every one of the large banks. Firms like Wells Fargo with $1.7 trillion in off-balance-sheet "assets" have only a tiny amount of actual equity behind that debt - if those alleged "assets" are in fact worth just a tiny amount less than claimed the firm is insolvent. Since they're off-balance-sheet we have no way to know.

But what we do know is that every week the FDIC proves two things:

1. Banks are and have been lying about asset valuations, as in virtually every case when they close a bank we suddenly discover that assets have been claimed at values 20, 30, 40 or even 50% above actual value.
   
2. The FDIC knows right now what the true values are. It has to in order to be able to tell us what the projected loss to the deposit fund is! Even for a tiny bank it would take days to determine valuations unless they are fully aware of the false claims for days, weeks or even months before they come in and close the firm.
   

Over the last two years the insolvency in the system has gotten worse, not better. We have hidden it and lied, but we haven't fixed it and can't because the system remains overlevered and the firms remain insolvent - it's just better-hidden.

The large financial institutions took the "liquidity" and used it to play games in the equity market. But this generates no real liquidity in the equity markets - that is there is no depth in the market itself, and as such when the computers come in to sell there's nobody on the other side willing to buy and the bid collapses.

This madness must be stopped, but doing so means doing what we should have done in 2008 and 2009 - forcing every financial institution to eat it's own cooking and absolutely barring financial firms with access to fed and government liquidity from trading or speculating in the markets.

Glass-Steagall would have prevented the illusion of liquidity from existing and thus what happened yesterday wouldn't have. Of course without that illusion we would have also not powered the S&P from 666 to 1219.

So choose your poison folks: either we start telling the truth and have a market that more-clearly reflects actual buyers and sellers, or we will continue to run the risk of the sort of collapse we saw yesterday - and there will be more of them.

[Parvis]

Edited May 7, 2010 by Parvis

[midas]

Anyone else trading the bounces? sit a few cents under the dump on open usually good for a quick trade just about any stock but nimble fingers required or be prepared to take a loss. But then again Day traders are able to take losses thats why only a handful succeed (long way to go but getting hang of it). Unless we are heading straight for 6500 it looks a bit oversold from here so back into the fire s/term

Zorro.

You lambasted me throughout this thread on the basis I was dumb to miss the rally from 6500 to 11,000 giving the impression it was readily apparent to you that such a rally would occur and be sustainable.

So if your ability to forecast such market movements is genuine, when are you expecting the market to start rising again ?

http://www.businessinsider.com/stocks-a-lo...rom-here-2010-5

Edited May 8, 2010 by midas

[midas]

For those interested in reality and not relying only the “ greater fool theory “

So, How Are Stock Prices Now That We're Back At DOW 11,000? They're 30% Overvalued

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/stock-market-pe#ixzz0kodlOMoC

yeah that's great news! somebody keeps pushing my stock up and by 30% Who cares why? not me. Watching the dow chart closely it was a great indicator a few months back. Hey midas I do remember saying see you at 11, 000 , why don't you just buy something and enjoy the ride? Nothing to suggest its not going to 11500 or to 13000 for that matter, can you show me why anyone would be selling now? (please no news paper clips)

erm who was correct ............?

This was posted on May 1st - a week before the crash.

'11,250 / 300 is an area of significant resistance and if this level can’t be breached it should signal the end of the March 2009 bear market rally - the weekly DOW chart shows an expanding wedge indicating a significant move is probable - this remains an overbought bear market rally and the uptrend could falter at any time - the VIX index continues to give bullish warnings which is bearish for equities - long term charts of key equity indexes continue to give bearish warnings and the March 2009 lows will be breached in my opinion - USD Index bullish warnings since 2009 on the weekly and monthly chart have not changed and further USD strength and thus EURO weakness is still expected '

This Is For All You Bull Market Geniuses

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/all-you-b...market-geniuses

[Parvis]

We have had - quite obviously - a fairly "painfull" decline - for some of those who only evaluate the Market from a fundamentalist viewpoint. Most of those who evaluate the Market only from a technical standpoint - have expected this decline for about a month or so - if not longer.

Are we really 30% overvalued - I would dispute that - while the Market appeared to have made a "bull run" - the economy certainly has not. Therefore, earnings on a historical basis are still depressed.

I try not to evaluate whether we are in a Bull Market - or a Bear market. For me it's all "bull" - as long as I can project the next cycle going up - or down. For any of these "Bear Market Geniuses" insisting we are in a Bear Market for the last 1 year plus, they have missed a profitable year - or lost their a*** (until now of course).

Edited May 9, 2010 by Parvis

[midas]

We have had - quite obviously - a fairly "painfull" decline - for some of those who only evaluate the Market from a fundamentalist viewpoint. Most of those who evaluate the Market only from a technical standpoint - have expected this decline for about a month or so - if not longer.

Are we really 30% overvalued - I would dispute that - while the Market appeared to have made a "bull run" - the economy certainly has not. Therefore, earnings on a historical basis are still depressed.

I try not to evaluate whether we are in a Bull Market - or a Bear market. For me it's all "bull" - as long as I can project the next cycle going up - or down. For any of these "Bear Market Geniuses" insisting we are in a Bear Market for the last 1 year plus, they have missed a profitable year - or lost their a*** (until now of course).

so do you agree or disagree with this statement ?

Next key support is approx 10,000 but it will be breached.

Target for this down leg remains 8,150 but this level won’t hold either

http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com/

[Parvis]

so do you agree or disagree with this statement ?

Next key support is approx 10,000 but it will be breached.

Target for this down leg remains 8,150 but this level won't hold either

Midas

I neither agree nor disagree with your statement. While I "register" support levels etc. I do not base my "changing trend analysis" per these levels. I look for very specific things which tell me exactly when a "tradeable trend" is changing. But I do look further in the future to consider longer term possibilities.

At the present time I know we do not yet have a trend to change to the upside - but yet - we appear to be making a bottom. Therefore, for me at this time only day-trades are possible - in both directions. In other words we will have high profitable volatility if you know how to time accurately and choose your "trading instrument" correctly - not by the day - but by the hour.

We are forming a bottom from which a "longer term" trend to the upside is probable in the next few days. This change in trend WILL NOT lead to a new high - but will be tradeable.

The technicals of the down-turn AFTER this next expected upturn will determine how far we will go to the downside - which in turn will determine whether we are - or are not - in a Bear Market.

So far - this very significant downturn has all the "hallmarks" of a correction in a Bull Market.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Parvis

[badge]

Watch out for the turn around - potentially tonight. I don't want to have to tell you "Told Ya".

[...]

No need to worry about that

[midas]

Watch out for the turn around - potentially tonight. I don't want to have to tell you "Told Ya".

[...]

No need to worry about that

Undoubtedly but based on what ?

The money does not exist, will never exist, and there is no scenario by which it will ever exist..........

I will be glad to continue to sit on the sidelines and watch as i do on the rare occasions I have been inside a casino

No better still my time will be better spent reading up on Neo-Survivalism

[badge]

Watch out for the turn around - potentially tonight. I don't want to have to tell you "Told Ya".

[...]

No need to worry about that

Undoubtedly but based on what ?

The money does not exist, will never exist, and there is no scenario by which it will ever exist..........

I will be glad to continue to sit on the sidelines and watch as i do on the rare occasions I have been inside a casino

No better still my time will be better spent reading up on Neo-Survivalism

I dont know if your refering to me Midas?

I was pointing out theres no need for Parvis to worry about telling us he "told ya", in light of the fact the S&P500 didnt 'turn around', it continued to go down, by a jaw-dropping 110 handles.

[Parvis]

You are so right - at the time I said it - I saw SPX as flat for the next day which it was - but it didn't hold. By that time I was "in the air" thousands of miles away - and unfortunately - I missed the downturn. But this is the "defect" of looking too closely at intradaycharts - one sees too may potential "tradeable" reversals.

Good life is no all about "trading" - it just pays for it.

If I had said it now - it would be more accurate - but we still have 2-3 days of "volatility" ahead before this can happen. But certainly - the Market will be up today - Monday.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Parvis

[lannarebirth]

I'm not playing it either way today, but I'll bet they sell into it.

[Parvis]

Correct - we don't yet have a good bottom to go much higher - I will certainly sell if the timing appears right.

[Gambles]

Correct - we don't yet have a good bottom to go much higher - I will certainly sell if the timing appears right.

so how far can manipulation and momentum take the DJIA past 11,000? I'd be surprised if it's too far but I'm often surprised

and then what's the fundamental bottom? 5,500? not odds I'd like.......

[Parvis]

Correct - we don't yet have a good bottom to go much higher - I will certainly sell if the timing appears right.

so how far can manipulation and momentum take the DJIA past 11,000? I'd be surprised if it's too far but I'm often surprised

and then what's the fundamental bottom? 5,500? not odds I'd like.......

As I explained previously, I still question whether this is a correction in a Bull Market or a continuation of the Bear Market (as many believe). I am "tilted" toward the former because of technical reasons - but I will rely on further "technicals" to "tell me the way". So far I cannot be sure.

I do expect another downturn "shortly" - but so far the Market is "awfully strong" - there appears to be no "selling into the rally". I would like to see the volume in comparison to Thursday and Fridays volume at the end of the day. This next downturn (which will happen) will tell me whether or not this was just a Bull Market correction.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Parvis

[badge]

Correct - we don't yet have a good bottom to go much higher - I will certainly sell if the timing appears right.

so how far can manipulation and momentum take the DJIA past 11,000? I'd be surprised if it's too far but I'm often surprised

and then what's the fundamental bottom? 5,500? not odds I'd like.......

As I explained previously, I still question whether this is a correction in a Bull Market or a continuation of the Bear Market (as many believe). I am "tilted" toward the former because of technical reasons - but I will rely on further "technicals" to "tell me the way". So far I cannot be sure.

I do expect another downturn "shortly" - but so far the Market is "awfully strong" - there appears to be no "selling into the rally". I would like to see the volume in comparison to Thursday and Fridays volume at the end of the day. This next downturn (which will happen) will tell me whether or not this was just a Bull Market correction.

I dont think last Thursdays volume can be compared to anything.

Last Thursday saw around 150% of average daily volume, which is amazingly light volume given the extraordinary daily range.

To retest such a thinly traded area of price discovery certainly would'nt surprise.

[Parvis]

I MAY BE looking at volume differently than you. I do not consider the "magnitude" of a move has a relation to volume.

But you are of course correct volume is very often difficult to interpret. But before this downmove started volume was consistantly higher on days of a decline than on days of a rise. Therefore Thursday "low volume" could actually be considered a positive. Fridays volume - which was even lower than Thurdays - actually gave me a "buy signal" considering where the volume went.

I do not project todays volume to be higher than Thursdays or Fridays - which again suggests the next decline may be shortly.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Parvis

[Gambles]

Correct - we don't yet have a good bottom to go much higher - I will certainly sell if the timing appears right.

so how far can manipulation and momentum take the DJIA past 11,000? I'd be surprised if it's too far but I'm often surprised

and then what's the fundamental bottom? 5,500? not odds I'd like.......

As I explained previously, I still question whether this is a correction in a Bull Market or a continuation of the Bear Market (as many believe). I am "tilted" toward the former because of technical reasons - but I will rely on further "technicals" to "tell me the way". So far I cannot be sure.

I do expect another downturn "shortly" - but so far the Market is "awfully strong" - there appears to be no "selling into the rally". I would like to see the volume in comparison to Thursday and Fridays volume at the end of the day. This next downturn (which will happen) will tell me whether or not this was just a Bull Market correction.

Great! Could you let us all know?

I'm still on the very precipice of the Great Divergence, thinking that this could go either way but the potential trough seems much lower whereas the peak doesn't look too high - over the next year and next few years

[Parvis]

Great! Could you let us all know?

I'm still on the very precipice of the Great Divergence, thinking that this could go either way but the potential trough seems much lower whereas the peak doesn't look too high - over the next year and next few years

By nature - I am an optimist - therefore I am "leaning toward" the belief that we are still in a Bull Market since March last year. I have yet to meet anyone I defined as a "Pessimist" who does not define himself a "Realist".

However, I do not look into the future for years - I let all these "gifted" Economists argue about that. In general - I believe the "major trendline" is up (and will always be up - unless we move back into caves) - but among this trendline we have what I call large "oscillations". The difference between oscillations and cycles becomes soon apparent when you ask someone to create a chart of cycles. My "parameters" are quite different - not necessarily better - just different.

I do not believe there is significant manipulation - however I do believe the Market is "kept orderly". In the early days (until about 1987) NYSE Specialists used to have that function. Now, I think there are "larger forces" at play - but this is legitimate not an effort to "manipulate for profit" (but I am sure there is profit). I do not believe the US Goverment is in the act to "prop up" the Market - to my knowledge this would require an act of Congress (besides they are not sophisticated enough).

As far as this pertains to the near term Market - we should have a decline starting in the next few days to the previous level (SPX 1060-1100) to form a better bottom - none in immeadiate sight - so far. Thereafter the Bull Market MAY continue.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Parvis

[flying]

I do not believe there is significant manipulation - however I do believe the Market is "kept orderly". In the early days (until about 1987) NYSE Specialists used to have that function. Now, I think there are "larger forces" at play - but this is legitimate not an effort to "manipulate for profit" (but I am sure there is profit). I do not believe the US Goverment is in the act to "prop up" the Market - to my knowledge this would require an act of Congress (besides they are not sophisticated enough).

With all due respect that made my head spin !

No manipulation just a market janitor so to speak? That keeps it tidy?

Larger forces at play but legit ones that are just there for say god like altruism? Not for profit but...Your sure there is profit.....

You do not believe in the plunge protection team yet you believe all the above? Which is basically the same thing

[Parvis]

With all due respect that made my head spin !

No manipulation just a market janitor so to speak? That keeps it tidy?

Larger forces at play but legit ones that are just there for say god like altruism? Not for profit but...Your sure there is profit.....

You do not believe in the plunge protection team yet you believe all the above? Which is basically the same thing

My 6 year old daughter believes in "fairies" too - she insists she has seen them - and I promised her I will believe her when I see them. So I will promise you also - I will believe you when you provide more credible evidence or at least present a more logical argument. But according to your icons (and your language) it is as resonable to argue with you about logic as it is with my 6 year old daughter and she is such a cute kid.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Parvis

[lannarebirth]

With all due respect that made my head spin !

No manipulation just a market janitor so to speak? That keeps it tidy?

Larger forces at play but legit ones that are just there for say god like altruism? Not for profit but...Your sure there is profit.....

You do not believe in the plunge protection team yet you believe all the above? Which is basically the same thing

My 6 year old daughter believes in "fairies" too - she insists she has seen them - and I promised her I will believe her when I see them. So I will promise you also - I will believe you when you provide more credible evidence or at least present a more logical argument. But according to your icons (and your language) it is as resonable to argue with you about logic as it is with my 6 year old daughter and she is such a cute kid.

Geithner's testimony before congress stated that "they weren't going to let the market go down" or very near those words. I took him at his word and that's worked out pretty well till the 200 wma appeared.

Edited May 11, 2010 by lannarebirth