The Third Sex

[endure]

So, one of the ways to deal with that and to satisfy the new emerging strong desires is turning to their own sex...

that's for the gays... but for ladyboys, they all say they started between 6 and 8 y.o.

As do the gays. I realised I was 'different' at about 8 and gay at about 11. All this nonsense about becoming gay because you're shy of girls is just that - nonsense. Baing gay is in the head, not in the underwear.

Edited September 7, 2009 by endure

[Birdman]

So, one of the ways to deal with that and to satisfy the new emerging strong desires is turning to their own sex...

that's for the gays... but for ladyboys, they all say they started between 6 and 8 y.o.

As do the gays. I realised I was 'different' at about 8 and gay at about 11. All this nonsense about becoming gay because you're shy of girls is just that - nonsense. Baing gay is in the head, not in the underwear.

Are you a Thai? Or were you raised here? If not, that statement disqualifies you to take part in the discussion. If not, then not.

[raro]

So, one of the ways to deal with that and to satisfy the new emerging strong desires is turning to their own sex...

that's for the gays... but for ladyboys, they all say they started between 6 and 8 y.o.

As do the gays. I realised I was 'different' at about 8 and gay at about 11. All this nonsense about becoming gay because you're shy of girls is just that - nonsense. Baing gay is in the head, not in the underwear.

Are you a Thai? Or were you raised here? If not, that statement disqualifies you to take part in the discussion. If not, then not.

if you could explain this a little more....why does it disqualify his statement if he was not born here??

Being gay or straight or bi or whatever is indeed in the head only. Wherever you are in the world. The definitions may change as per cultural context as we saw earlier, but what floats your boat is your decision.

And again....and hear it from a gay-certified *) straight guy: Ladyboys are attractive to straight guys only. Not to gays.

*) wanna say that a good gay friend of mine gave me a 100% straight clearance. Still trying to get it in writing....

[Birdman]

...because here people are forced without wanting to(*), and more than in the West, to stick with their own sex as a teeny, (*=) coming with all the luggage from childhood, like explained already...

But that does not mean, that this fact applies to all...of course

Edited September 7, 2009 by Birdman

[scottyd]

So if being gay is in the head only, does that mean it is a mental disability?

[PeaceBlondie]

Are you a Thai? Or were you raised here? If not, that statement disqualifies you to take part in the discussion. If not, then not.

No. Any poster can saw his opinion here; only follow the forum rules.

[Birdman]

Are you a Thai? Or were you raised here? If not, that statement disqualifies you to take part in the discussion. If not, then not.

No. Any poster can saw his opinion here; only follow the forum rules.

I am sorry, because you certainly misunderstood me. Sure any poster can say his opinion here. But in this case, we were already above the logical point of that poster's input. So I meant that only relating to that.

And, quiet to the contrary, I really like bizarre and irrational statements, because they show fantasy and a fresh, lively mind.

[endure]

So, one of the ways to deal with that and to satisfy the new emerging strong desires is turning to their own sex...

that's for the gays... but for ladyboys, they all say they started between 6 and 8 y.o.

As do the gays. I realised I was 'different' at about 8 and gay at about 11. All this nonsense about becoming gay because you're shy of girls is just that - nonsense. Baing gay is in the head, not in the underwear.

Are you a Thai? Or were you raised here? If not, that statement disqualifies you to take part in the discussion. If not, then not.

Why does it disqualify me? Please explain?

[raro]

So if being gay is in the head only, does that mean it is a mental disability?

yes. Just like heterosexuality is.

[Birdman]

I explained that already two times, endure. Briefly again: Contrary to the average Western way of being raised as a child, locals here are first avalanched with endless love and tolerance and afterwards, when the 'natural desires arises', they are left more or less alone with that longing because of the system here and therefore looking for other easy options. One of that is the same sex. Others are secret orgies to compensate for the unconscious unfulfilled longings. So, the prerequisites to be straight are in comparison with the West unequal.

[endure]

I explained that already two times, endure. Briefly again: Contrary to the average Western way of being raised as a child, locals here are first avalanched with endless love and tolerance and afterwards, when the 'natural desires arises', they are left more or less alone with that longing because of the system here and therefore looking for other easy options. One of that is the same sex. Others are secret orgies to compensate for the unconscious unfulfilled longings. So, the prerequisites to be straight are in comparison with the West unequal.

And briefly again. You don't become a homosexual because of outside factors. It's an internal thing and it's the same all over the world. How you're forced to behave as a gay person in Iran, Thailand or the USA may be different but those different circumstances don't make you gay.

As an aside whenever conversations on homosexuality crop up on here we're always treated to a barrage of opinion disguised as fact by straight posters who seem unable or unwilling to accept the fact that us gay folks might know at least as much, if not more, than they do about being gay.

[Birdman]

I explained that already two times, endure. Briefly again: Contrary to the average Western way of being raised as a child, locals here are first avalanched with endless love and tolerance and afterwards, when the 'natural desires arises', they are left more or less alone with that longing because of the system here and therefore looking for other easy options. One of that is the same sex. Others are secret orgies to compensate for the unconscious unfulfilled longings. So, the prerequisites to be straight are in comparison with the West unequal.

And briefly again. You don't become a homosexual because of outside factors. It's an internal thing and it's the same all over the world. How you're forced to behave as a gay person in Iran, Thailand or the USA may be different but those different circumstances don't make you gay.

As an aside whenever conversations on homosexuality crop up on here we're always treated to a barrage of opinion disguised as fact by straight posters who seem unable or unwilling to accept the fact that us gay folks might know at least as much, if not more, than they do about being gay.

Not for all. It depends entirely on the circumstances, if someone is forced to react in a certain way. A male prison is a good example for that.

[raro]

gay folks might know at least as much, if not more, than they do about being gay.

...and probably more than straight folks know about being straight. Could it be that the problem results from the non-necessity of straights to understand their sexuality as it is anyways considered "normal" and the necessity of most gays to research this deeper as they have a much harder time to find out who and what they are?

[endure]

I explained that already two times, endure. Briefly again: Contrary to the average Western way of being raised as a child, locals here are first avalanched with endless love and tolerance and afterwards, when the 'natural desires arises', they are left more or less alone with that longing because of the system here and therefore looking for other easy options. One of that is the same sex. Others are secret orgies to compensate for the unconscious unfulfilled longings. So, the prerequisites to be straight are in comparison with the West unequal.

And briefly again. You don't become a homosexual because of outside factors. It's an internal thing and it's the same all over the world. How you're forced to behave as a gay person in Iran, Thailand or the USA may be different but those different circumstances don't make you gay.

As an aside whenever conversations on homosexuality crop up on here we're always treated to a barrage of opinion disguised as fact by straight posters who seem unable or unwilling to accept the fact that us gay folks might know at least as much, if not more, than they do about being gay.

Not for all. It depends entirely on the circumstances, if someone is forced to react in a certain way. A male prison is a good example for that.

Men who have sex in male prisons and who resume heterosexual relationships when they leave prison aren't gay. As you say they are reacting to circumstances which, when removed, they revert to type. I could have sex with a woman but it wouldn't make me straight. Being gay is more than what you do with your tackle.

[Ijustwannateach]

^and it isn't just about situational options. There are straight men all over the world who indulge from time to time in sex with other men and don't identify as gay. They're not gay, and neither are the men who like sleeping with ladyboys. Gay is about the conscious identification as a man of one's primary sexual interest as being other MEN (and not pseudo-ladies, either).

[Ijustwannateach]

A post associating homosexuality with violent criminal behaviour has been removed. Posts discriminating against minorities in this way, however loosely suggested, will earn harsh penalties.

[Ijustwannateach]

gay folks might know at least as much, if not more, than they do about being gay.

...and probably more than straight folks know about being straight. Could it be that the problem results from the non-necessity of straights to understand their sexuality as it is anyways considered "normal" and the necessity of most gays to research this deeper as they have a much harder time to find out who and what they are?

[endure]

gay folks might know at least as much, if not more, than they do about being gay.

...and probably more than straight folks know about being straight. Could it be that the problem results from the non-necessity of straights to understand their sexuality as it is anyways considered "normal" and the necessity of most gays to research this deeper as they have a much harder time to find out who and what they are?

Give that man a medal!

[Ijustwannateach]

Most gays try being straight first, in case you didn't know.

I'm thinking since there isn't much about ladyboys here anymore (and gosh, how did I know it would go this way?) I will soon split this thread into the de facto discussion of homosexuality now in progress which will proceed straight to the gay subforum and leaving the original ladyboy topic here. That is, if you gentlemen don't want to bring things back to the original topic REAL soon now...

[endure]

The infallible truth about ladyboy threads:

1. They are always started by straight posters.

2. They always veer off to discussions of homosexuality.

3. They always fill up with straight folks telling gay folks all about gayness.

[LaoPo]

Most gays try being straight first, in case you didn't know.

I'm thinking since there isn't much about ladyboys here anymore (and gosh, how did I know it would go this way?) I will soon split this thread into the de facto discussion of homosexuality now in progress which will proceed straight to the gay subforum and leaving the original ladyboy topic here. That is, if you gentlemen don't want to bring things back to the original topic REAL soon now...

..I was just wondering and had to look back to the OP when it was started (August 8) and by whom; don't see the OP-starter anymore around and of course the topic wandered into a homosexual/bisexual discussion rather than a Katoey discussion.

I also wonder how it is that over and over these discussions rise again as if the homo-/lesbian-/bisexuality and the katoey phenomenon is something new....a new world wonder.

I thought it was as old as the world.

Nothing new on the horizon.

Maybe we should start a discussion about Hermaphrodites in Thailand; the only problem is where to open such a topic? (if the image -from 1850 !- is not allowed pls remove; although I think we all are mature enough to comprehend and understand.)

Illustration from Dr. John Neill, "Case of Hermaphroditism," Summary of the Transactions of the College of Physicians of Philadelphia 1 (1850): 114. Courtesy of the Yale Medical Library.

From: http://www.common-place.org/vol-08/no-02/reis/

Note:

It's fascinating but also shocking to learn how an anonymous author wrote about hermaphrodites, as follows, in 1892, a little over a 100 years ago:

""Perfect or Perverted?

Hermaphroditism and homosexuality in nineteenth-century America

[F]rom the anatomical point of view, the hermaphrodite is neither a monstrosity nor a freak of nature, but a creature devoid of ordinary development, that is, not developed sexually in conformity to its species. Physiologically, the hermaphrodite is a degenerate, impotent and sterile, imperfect in impulse and characteristic equilibrium, on account of unstable and perverted sex (1892).""

http://www.common-place.org/vol-08/no-02/reis/

LaoPo

[Ijustwannateach]

Heh heh- that would at least be somewhat new on Thaivisa, Laopo! I'm removing some trollish and recent off-topic potshots, and their poster will be aware that they should not return to this thread.

[LaoPo]

Maybe we should start a discussion about Hermaphrodites in Thailand;

LaoPo

Just found an old sleeping thread about Hermaphrodites in Thailand:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Met-Real-Her...ite-t38090.html

with interesting contributions by BambinA, Bina, Totster, Donna and others.

Note:

Mods: maybe split away my 2 last posts and put them in the old thread, for a nice revival ?

LaoPo

[endure]

Maybe we should start a discussion about Hermaphrodites in Thailand;

LaoPo

Just found an old sleeping thread about Hermaphrodites in Thailand:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Met-Real-Her...ite-t38090.html

with interesting contributions by BambinA, Bina, Totster, Donna and others.

Note:

Mods: maybe split away my 2 last posts and put them in the old thread, for a nice revival ?

LaoPo

Now that is a VERY strange thread. It ranges from Chownah arguing about plagiarism to a man talking about his girlfriend's 3 inch clitoris

[LaoPo]

Maybe we should start a discussion about Hermaphrodites in Thailand;

LaoPo

Just found an old sleeping thread about Hermaphrodites in Thailand:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Met-Real-Her...ite-t38090.html

with interesting contributions by BambinA, Bina, Totster, Donna and others.

Note:

Mods: maybe split away my 2 last posts and put them in the old thread, for a nice revival ?

LaoPo

Now that is a VERY strange thread. It ranges from Chownah arguing about plagiarism to a man talking about his girlfriend's 3 inch clitoris

I swear.....I wasn't that man

LaoPo

[Brigante7]

Most gays try being straight first, in case you didn't know.

I'm thinking since there isn't much about ladyboys here anymore (and gosh, how did I know it would go this way?) I will soon split this thread into the de facto discussion of homosexuality now in progress which will proceed straight to the gay subforum and leaving the original ladyboy topic here. That is, if you gentlemen don't want to bring things back to the original topic REAL soon now...

And those gays who play at being straight, do they think of the consequences they're actions will have on their families when the decide to come out?

Brigante7.

[endure]

Most gays try being straight first, in case you didn't know.

I'm thinking since there isn't much about ladyboys here anymore (and gosh, how did I know it would go this way?) I will soon split this thread into the de facto discussion of homosexuality now in progress which will proceed straight to the gay subforum and leaving the original ladyboy topic here. That is, if you gentlemen don't want to bring things back to the original topic REAL soon now...

And those gays who play at being straight, do they think of the consequences they're actions will have on their families when the decide to come out?

Brigante7.

Yes, many of them do but up until recently they've had no option. I suggest you watch Brokeback Mountain from beginning to end before you spout any more nonsense. It really gets on my tits that you lot created the world that we live in and then you have the gall to piss and moan about the consequences.

Edited September 7, 2009 by endure

[raro]

Most gays try being straight first, in case you didn't know.

I'm thinking since there isn't much about ladyboys here anymore (and gosh, how did I know it would go this way?) I will soon split this thread into the de facto discussion of homosexuality now in progress which will proceed straight to the gay subforum and leaving the original ladyboy topic here. That is, if you gentlemen don't want to bring things back to the original topic REAL soon now...

well...if I remember right, the OP question was whether ladyboys and men who like them are gay.

To answer this question, we had to determine what gay exactly is and found out in the course that it is a bit more complex than some want to acknowledge.

Then again, we have pretty much established that ladyboys are not gay and those men who lke them are not gay either.

@ Brigante7: After you finished with Brokeback Mountain, continue with The Crying Game. If you still don't get it, then I'm not sure how to help you...

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, the OP was quoting some tourist thing asking why there were so many ladyboys in Thailand as opposed to other countries... though I do appreciate the more positive elements of the sexuality discussion that inevitably (and probably deliberately) ensues, where as Endure has so succinctly put it:

1. They are always started by straight posters.

2. They always veer off to discussions of homosexuality.

3. They always fill up with straight folks telling gay folks all about gayness.

The bizarre thing (for us gay posters) is how frequently and how sure so many straight posters are that ladyboys have anything to do with being gay- when in fact, as I've equally frequently pointed out, ladyboys are after 'straight' men (and they get them, too).

There should probably be a special category for those types of straight men who like ladyboy-ish types (but not gay men)- I don't know what name to give them, as "ladyboy-fanciers" sounds like a veterinary group...

[Harcourt]

Actually, the OP was quoting some tourist thing asking why there were so many ladyboys in Thailand as opposed to other countries... though I do appreciate the more positive elements of the sexuality discussion that inevitably (and probably deliberately) ensues, where as Endure has so succinctly put it:

1. They are always started by straight posters.

2. They always veer off to discussions of homosexuality.

3. They always fill up with straight folks telling gay folks all about gayness.

The bizarre thing (for us gay posters) is how frequently and how sure so many straight posters are that ladyboys have anything to do with being gay- when in fact, as I've equally frequently pointed out, ladyboys are after 'straight' men (and they get them, too).

There should probably be a special category for those types of straight men who like ladyboy-ish types (but not gay men)- I don't know what name to give them, as "ladyboy-fanciers" sounds like a veterinary group...

To be fair....I think LaoPo, Rumfoord, myself, et al are straight....but we have not tried to tell gay folk about gayness, but to show straight folk that not all other straight folk have the same phobias, misinformation, or ignorance, as many of them assume.