Merchant Of Death To Learn Fate Today

[LazarusLong]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

May I remind you that weapons by itself are neither good nor evil and that these do not kill by themselves ?

People kill people, period. The US have always been a stronghold of weaponry possession and that guy in my view may have done little wrong, if at all. He's probably violated some export/import control regulations, but so what ?

The US have supplied weapons more than once, and Saddam Hussein got much of his staff from the US while he was still expected to fight communism and muslim fanatics from Iran. Things do not become right or wrong just because a government does it.

It is pretty much understandable that the Americans want him, but at the end of the day that's just smart political marketing of the Obama administration who would like to deviate from their catastrophic interior politics record.

The UN or whoever feels in charge may go after the weapons user (or abuser), but basically a gun, a tank or a missile is a commodity like iron ore, rice or consumer electronics.

That may not be politically correct, but yup, it's a fact, folks.

[photojourn]

America dismayed and disappointed at Bout extradition snub

By John Le Fevre

James Entwistle, the deputy chief of mission at the US embassy in Bangkok has said the US Government is "disappointed and mystified" by a Thai court's decision to reject a request for the extradition of Russian alleged arms dealer Viktor Bout.

Entwistle said, "we are disappointed and mystified by the court's ruling. We think the facts of the case are relevant to Thai laws".

Earlier today a Thai court said that it did not have the authority to punish "actions done by foreigners against other foreigners in another country."

However, Entwistle disputed this and said, "our bilateral extradition agreement fully supports the extradition of Mr Bout".

The decision though has pleased Russia, with foreign ministry spokesman Igor Lyakin-Frolov telling RIA Novosti: "With satifaction we welcome the decision of the court in Thailand and hope he will soon be able to return home".

Bout was arrested in a sting operation at the five-star Sofitel hotel after allegedly agreeing to supply surface-to-air missiles to US agents posing as guerrillas from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).

While the court acknowledged that FARC had been designated a terrorist organisation by the United Nations and the United States, it has not been designated such by Thailand meaning that as far as Thailand was concerned it was a political movement.

Bout's arrest involved not only the Royal Thai Police and the US Drug Enforcement Agency, but also the Romanian Border Police, the Romanian Prosecutor's Office Attached to the High Court of Cassation and Justice, the Korps Politie Curacao of the Netherlands Antilles and the Danish National Police Security Services.

Last week Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva repeated statements he has made a number of times that Thailand will not allow anybody to use the country to destabilize other countries.

Bout's freedom is not guaranteed though as Entwistle said the US government, "will consult closely with the Thai government. We understand they will make clear their intention to appeal the decision and we will support that in any way we can," he said.

-- thaivisa.com August 11, 2009

[elcent]

The US has 72 hours to appeal. I think exactly that will happen. If he is innocent then he has a good chance to get cleared in the States and to get millions of $$$ in compensation.

I think that the US has not all allegation brought into the extradition request so to avoid that he will be tried in Thailand for one or the other case.

[DonGato]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

Thank God yours -and my- children just don't live in some of those African countries where his illegal weapons have been used to erase entire villages... hum?

I don't believe all those feeling the impact of his business around the world would agree on this one somehow...

[ScubaBuddha]

I can't figure out why he wants to stay in the filthy, death ridden, overcrowded miserable Thai prisons when he can have a life of relative luxury with comfortable beds, good food, a canteen, TV's, libraries, fitness centers, tennis, and softball at a Club Fed in the USA. Either way, if half of the stuff I saw in a documentary on this guy is true, he is spending the majority of rest of his natural life behind bars, no doubt of that.

[jasreeve17]

So much stupid anti-American rubbish being talked by naive ideologists... If the Chinese or Russians were the big boys of the world then we really would be farked.

People that sell weapons (breaking multiple international laws), i.e. killing others for their own personal profit, should (actually must) be held accountable - trying to turn the argument into an ideological debate rather than a point of law is ridiculous. I'd strongly like to comment on the verdict handed down, but I think it's illegal here to critisize court rulings (though you can praise crazy court rulings perfectly legally???)

In my opinion this Russian guy is a mass murdering scumbag who should be in prison. I reckon that Bush and Blair are mass murdering scumbags that should be in prison too, but that's a completly different and seperate story.

Another embarrassing day for Thialand... they're just none stop...

[lannarebirth]

Update:

US 'disappointed and mystified' by Bout ruling: diploma

BANGKOK: -- The United States is "disappointed and mystified" by a Thai court's decision to reject a request for the extradition of Russian alleged arms dealer Viktor Bout, a senior US diplomat said Tuesday.

"We are disappointed and mystified by the court's ruling. We think the facts of the case are relevant to Thai laws," James Entwistle, the deputy chief of mission at the US embassy in Bangkok, told reporters.

The court said that it did not have the authority to punish "actions done by foreigners against other foreigners in another country."

-- AFP 2009-08-11

If the court was quoted correctly, then presumably no one would ever be extradited for anything. Curious.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Crossy
Irrelevant photograph removed. Crossy

[barry]

weapons of mass destruction don't kill people

people kill people

[tim73]

James Entwistle, the deputy chief of mission at the US embassy in Bangkok has said the US Government is "disappointed and mystified" by a Thai court's decision to reject a request for the extradition of Russian alleged arms dealer Viktor Bout...

Well, maybe Thais sent a message to USA: "bye bye Yanks, we chose our side". Maybe they did make the right decision.

USA is very close to economic and maybe even all-out collapse USSR style. The debts on all levels (consumers, US government, municipalities, states, big banks) are just so huge and imperial overstretch is making things even worse. There is no way USA is able to continue that superpower game much longer. I'd give one year max before real SHTF happens big time. Given the rather aggressive nature of Americans (meaning up yours and bang bang! , all bets are off. Good luck Americans, you'll need every bit of it soon...

This now so called Great Recession could turn into real bad depression real fast and that is scary.

[hammered]

Can see the US embassy dudes getting utterly retarded over this.

The Thai government are going to be ordered to appeal or find some other way to render Bout. Wonder if there is any cheap fuel deal with Russia being lined up.

[FatherF]

The US has 72 hours to appeal. I think exactly that will happen. If he is innocent then he has a good chance to get cleared in the States and to get millions of $$ in compensation.

I think that the US has not all allegation brought into the extradition request so to avoid that he will be tried in Thailand for one or the other case.

As far as I am aware, he has not broken any laws in Thailand, and therefore can't be tried for anything.

(or am I mistaken?)

FF

[ScubaBuddha]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

If it was, let's drag US, UK, Germany, Russia, China, and a whole lot more countries infront of an international court and convict all the politicians approving it.

Seeing it happen yet?

Fact of the matter is that the case brought up to get him extradited is a bogus one. It's not even on the level of getting Capone for tax-evasion, it is much lower.

They are actually charging him with intent - no deal in writing was ever made, he only agreed to meet and possibly sell - arms to a 'Terrorist group', that was nothing more than American Agents posing as South American representatives of one of the many militias in the region.

So it was an entrapment that never even went into conclusion.

He is a merchant of arms and in a true free world he would be allowed to sell to anyone and any country he wishes.

Not true, entrapment is something totally different. You must put the idea in the persons head for it to be entrapment. And there are lots of laws where intent is all that is needed. All your posts make it clear you don't have any idea what this guy was about. He has been suspected for decades of fueling both sides of armed conflicts around the world purely for his financial benefit. There are many international laws, treaties and embargos which clearly prohibit this. He ignored all of them and tens of thousands, if not millions of people have died, families destroyed, women and children raped tortured because he illegally supplied them arms. Just look at the number of countries present in Thailand when he was taken down. As much as I feel my own country at times gets involved where they don't belong, (Iraq) there are times where the super powers need to step in and do something, like we didn't in Sudan. As human beings we have a moral obligation. The U.N. is useless in most cases.

[animatic]

Of course this was entrapment and of course the Americans do not give a dam_n about the rule of law, wherever they operate in the world. If there is one people who have studied Mein Kampf very well it are the Americans as they behave like the new super race. The other fact of life is that the Thai police and military seldom follow proper procedure and entrap their own all the time even enlisting children, something the East german secret police would not have dared.

The difference between Entrapment and a Sting is

if the enforcing element draw or manipulate the target in actively,

or just provided a way for the target to incriminate himself.

Letting it be known that you might be interested in buying arms, and accepting the offer is a sting.

Pursuing and aiding/moving the sale to make a reluctant participant actual make the offer is different.

We can't know which is which in the case.

Bad economy or not, America will never be as down in the dumps financially as Thailand on it's best day.

If they want Bout that much something will be done. And we ain't never gonna see it happen.

[ScubaBuddha]

USA is very close to economic and maybe even all-out collapse USSR style. The debts on all levels (consumers, US government, municipalities, states, big banks) are just so huge and imperial overstretch is making things even worse. There is no way USA is able to continue that superpower game much longer. I'd give one year max before real SHTF happens big time. Given the rather aggressive nature of Americans (meaning up yours and bang bang! , all bets are off. Good luck Americans, you'll need every bit of it soon...

This now so called Great Recession could turn into real bad depression real fast and that is scary.

Ha ha! Your joking right? What a pile of absolute drivel. lol Check back with me in a year.

[hammered]

For extradition dont you have to prove the offence is a breach of law in the arresting country and also show that there is enough evidence to have a good chance of conviction?

[TAWP]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

Thank God yours -and my- children just don't live in some of those African countries where his illegal weapons have been used to erase entire villages... hum?

I don't believe all those feeling the impact of his business around the world would agree on this one somehow...

The weapons aren't illegal.

Are you another of those fooled people that think that weapons sold or donated by the west only do good things while weapons from people like Victor only does bad things?

[ScubaBuddha]

So much stupid anti-American rubbish being talked by naive ideologists... If the Chinese or Russians were the big boys of the world then we really would be farked.

People that sell weapons (breaking multiple international laws), i.e. killing others for their own personal profit, should (actually must) be held accountable - trying to turn the argument into an ideological debate rather than a point of law is ridiculous. I'd strongly like to comment on the verdict handed down, but I think it's illegal here to critisize court rulings (though you can praise crazy court rulings perfectly legally???)

In my opinion this Russian guy is a mass murdering scumbag who should be in prison. I reckon that Bush and Blair are mass murdering scumbags that should be in prison too, but that's a completly different and seperate story.

Another embarrassing day for Thialand... they're just none stop...

You are 100% correct, especially the part about Bush.

[TAWP]

So much stupid anti-American rubbish being talked by naive ideologists... If the Chinese or Russians were the big boys of the world then we really would be farked.

People that sell weapons (breaking multiple international laws), i.e. killing others for their own personal profit, should (actually must) be held accountable - trying to turn the argument into an ideological debate rather than a point of law is ridiculous. I'd strongly like to comment on the verdict handed down, but I think it's illegal here to critisize court rulings (though you can praise crazy court rulings perfectly legally???)

In my opinion this Russian guy is a mass murdering scumbag who should be in prison. I reckon that Bush and Blair are mass murdering scumbags that should be in prison too, but that's a completly different and seperate story.

Another embarrassing day for Thialand... they're just none stop...

He hasn't killed anyone.

He, as many other companies and countries, has sold materials and tools of war and defense.

The rest is just hyperbole.

[handydog]

I dont see the problem.... He is an operative operating in a foriegn country so he has to abile by their rules.

He knew the consiquenses of the job when he signed on so he should therefore accept them.... Either rot in jail or take a bullet to the head: just stop wingeing about it!!!

Every job has a cost.

[lennois]

He is a merchant of arms and in a true free world he would be allowed to sell to anyone and any country he wishes.

Yeah easy to say when he is profiteering from the distruction of nations in which you couldn't care less about.

I suspect if he was selling a nuke to terrorists who were to drop it on your country you might have a sudden change of heart...

[TAWP]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

If it was, let's drag US, UK, Germany, Russia, China, and a whole lot more countries infront of an international court and convict all the politicians approving it.

Seeing it happen yet?

Fact of the matter is that the case brought up to get him extradited is a bogus one. It's not even on the level of getting Capone for tax-evasion, it is much lower.

They are actually charging him with intent - no deal in writing was ever made, he only agreed to meet and possibly sell - arms to a 'Terrorist group', that was nothing more than American Agents posing as South American representatives of one of the many militias in the region.

So it was an entrapment that never even went into conclusion.

He is a merchant of arms and in a true free world he would be allowed to sell to anyone and any country he wishes.

Not true, entrapment is something totally different. You must put the idea in the persons head for it to be entrapment. And there are lots of laws where intent is all that is needed. All your posts make it clear you don't have any idea what this guy was about. He has been suspected for decades of fueling both sides of armed conflicts around the world purely for his financial benefit. There are many international laws, treaties and embargos which clearly prohibit this. He ignored all of them and tens of thousands, if not millions of people have died, families destroyed, women and children raped tortured because he illegally supplied them arms. Just look at the number of countries present in Thailand when he was taken down. As much as I feel my own country at times gets involved where they don't belong, (Iraq) there are times where the super powers need to step in and do something, like we didn't in Sudan. As human beings we have a moral obligation. The U.N. is useless in most cases.

A sting is setting up a shop-shop and waiting for people to come and sell them stolen cars.

Victor didn't search them down and tell them he had guns and asked if they wanted to buy it, they came to him, set up meeting and had him arrested before anything was finalized, arranged or delivered.

The only reason they chose to do it in Thailand is because they thought it would be easy to get him through the court-system and back to the US.

It's not like he doesn't travel a lot to other counties, including Europe.

However having him arrested over no crime committed (meeting with 'actors pretending to be FARC' is only a crime in DEA's mind) just so they can try to have him extradited is cheap.

[tim73]

Ha ha! Your joking right? What a pile of absolute drivel. lol Check back with me in a year.

Typical American arrogant and ignorant attitude but you will be very silent and humble boy next year, dude. Remember to practise your deer in the headlights face. Most Americans will soon be in the state of total shock.

[marsteele]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

I agree tell the bloody yanks to bugger off. What has it got to do with the USA anyway? Did he commit any offence on US soil? If not I am behind the thai authorities keep him if you wish or send him back to Russia. I am sick and tired of the USA and the way the have appointed themselves the world police and think they are the rulers of the world. The uSA interfers in the politics of every country and tries to tell them how to run thier own affairs and if you don't do what the USA says then beware of consequences.

[TAWP]

He is a merchant of arms and in a true free world he would be allowed to sell to anyone and any country he wishes.

Yeah easy to say when he is profiteering from the distruction of nations in which you couldn't care less about.

I suspect if he was selling a nuke to terrorists who were to drop it on your country you might have a sudden change of heart...

No, however I believe in true liberty and not being a slave to a few powerful governments agenda.

Make no mistake, there are hundreds of arms dealers in the world but there is a reason Victor has been seen as a target. And it is not because DoJ cares about some people in a village in Africa.

[ScubaBuddha]

Ha ha! Your joking right? What a pile of absolute drivel. lol Check back with me in a year.

Typical American arrogant and ignorant attitude but you will be very silent and humble boy next year, dude. Remember to practise your deer in the headlights face. Most Americans will soon be in the state of total shock.

Ha! It's neither arrogant or ignorant to say the USA is not going to collapse within the next year. . Oh God I can't believe I am actually having this argument.

Ok, If you insist, I'll set my watch and we will see just how wrong you are.

[marsteele]

He is a merchant of arms and in a true free world he would be allowed to sell to anyone and any country he wishes.

Yeah easy to say when he is profiteering from the distruction of nations in which you couldn't care less about.

I suspect if he was selling a nuke to terrorists who were to drop it on your country you might have a sudden change of heart...

This sounds like the American Government. Lets not forget that America is one of the biggest arms dealers in the world. How many governments and militia have they sold arms to. How many militia have they sold arms to in the hope they will overthrow thier own governments. The Oliver North scandal comes to mind to mention one. I think the US is just trying to eliminate the competition. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The US is the biggest terrorist organisation in the world.

[jasreeve17]

So much stupid anti-American rubbish being talked by naive ideologists... If the Chinese or Russians were the big boys of the world then we really would be farked.

People that sell weapons (breaking multiple international laws), i.e. killing others for their own personal profit, should (actually must) be held accountable - trying to turn the argument into an ideological debate rather than a point of law is ridiculous. I'd strongly like to comment on the verdict handed down, but I think it's illegal here to critisize court rulings (though you can praise crazy court rulings perfectly legally???)

In my opinion this Russian guy is a mass murdering scumbag who should be in prison. I reckon that Bush and Blair are mass murdering scumbags that should be in prison too, but that's a completly different and seperate story.

Another embarrassing day for Thialand... they're just none stop...

He hasn't killed anyone.

He, as many other companies and countries, has sold materials and tools of war and defense.

The rest is just hyperbole.

In your world, we would need to close down the entire legal system until the ideological argument was completed...

[tim73]

The real joke is US and even UK military used Viktor's big Russian planes for preparation of the Iraq invasion back in 2002-2003 because there just were not enough own planes for that . Now he is the bad guy? Not just few flights, it was like regular carrier route for months.

He is just doing as an individual that CIA and other similar agencies around the world have been doing for decades, smuggling weapons and other stuff. Probably his planes carried weapons to some Muslim terrorist group that is now so plain WRONG, according to West. Otherwise he would still be the good guy.

[moskito]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

If it was, let's drag US, UK, Germany, Russia, China, and a whole lot more countries infront of an international court and convict all the politicians approving it.

Seeing it happen yet?

I agree 100% weapons are money and jobs.

Anyone here know the movie LORD OF WAR with Nicolas Cage? watch it, its nearly true. Americans dont sale weapons in conflict areas?...what a bull.....

I bet, one can sale and buy everything if he knows the right people.....

[tim73]

Ha! It's neither arrogant or ignorant to say the USA is not going to collapse within the next year. . Oh God I can't believe I am actually having this argument. Ok, If you insist, I'll set my watch and we will see just how wrong you are.

See you then Wednesday 11th of August 2010 here in the forums...you'll eat your own words.