Hostility Towards Farang Women?

[BabaYaga]

I've noticed a common trend on some sites about Thailand, and that is that there seems to be an awful lot of open hostility towards western women. Am I imagining things, or are there a lot of ex-pats in BKK with serious issues about the fairer sex?

Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen anything offensive here. But another site I visited was overrun by chauvenistic <deleted> who did almost nothing but gloat about the 'subservient' women they were dating, and how much they hated western women - essentially for not being mindless f*ckdolls, which is what these guys thought women should be, apparently.

I don't want you to think I'm off on a huge femenist rant here, I'm just wondering what I'm in for. I'm moving to Thailand next month, what kind of people should i expect? What is the ratio of moronic pigs to normal people among the ex-pats in BKK? What kind of problems have you experienced?

Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

removed url

Edited March 5, 2005 by Boo

[Boo]

Hi BabaYaga, Welcome to ThaiVisa.

Firstly, I had to edit your post to remove a URL & mention of another website, it in the rules, we dont want to advertise other places do we

Secondly, yes, there are a lot of men in Thailand who don't like western women because they are western women, American women in particular get a lot of crap thrown at them on this site too, but fortunatley we have a good balanced mod team here who discourage that kind of crap so you don't see the kind of threads abusing women that you would on other sites too often The forum rules don't tolerate rascism & that's exactly what it it. These guys will swear blind though that they aren;t rascist but they are as they abuse someone because of their nationality & colour.

Also, we have a lot of women posters on this board & one of the mods is a women (me) so we can quite well handle ourselves if anyone starts ranting too much.

You will meet a lot of bittter men in LOS who are threatened by your western values. You could be snow white & they'd still think you were a feminist bitch ball breaker because of your skin colour & freedom of speech. Nothing you can do about it except laugh. Lets face it, would you want these kind of people to be mates with anyway??

Ok, now thats ou of the way....You will though meet some great people of all sexes & nationalities, which is why the first group of guys wont bother you, these people will show you that human nature is generally the same the world over, with a few cultural differences thrown in for good fun but there are decent, normal western guys out there as well as strong, outspoken, independant thai women, who the guys on the other website would run a mile from if they ever encountered them

Don't le tthe thought of a few losers on some other website bother you too much, enjoy your move to LOS & have fun

[Shola]

Welcome BabaYaga!

I joined this little forum a couple of months ago for some friendly chat with some decent guys and gals, and so far have had just that!

Of course there are few obnoxious posts that get flung out here and there but I havn't felt any kind of hostility toward western gals in particular, so stick around it's all good!

Shola

XXX

[cdnvic]

If Thai women are supposed to be subserviant, then my wife must have missed school the day they taught that.

You gotta remember that there's a high quotient of men here who are the type who are recently divorced, need to be with someone, and asian women are a bit less "in your face" on average, so the guys feel a bit more relaxed with them.

Unfortunately, many of these men want sex in the same timeframe as they would have in the west, which the average Thai woman is not so forthcoming with right away. Solution? The man looks for a woman who will give him what he wants right away. Unfortunately, and I'm not passing judgement, alot of the girls who will, do it for the cash, or a visa, a combination therof. End result, the guy gets his heart broken or bank account emptied and he's now slagging off Thai women.

So, its not really a problem with western women....its that they have a problem dealing properly with any women.

cv

[SiamJai]

but fortunatley we have a good balanced mod team here who discourage that kind of crap so you don't see the kind of threads abusing women that you would on other sites too often

Nice...

I didn't know about the female aspect of this board before; I guess I should check it out more often then. Strong, outspoken, independent - these are qualities to treasure in anyone, men and women.

Secondly, yes, there are a lot of men in Thailand who don't like western women because they are western women, American women in particular get a lot of crap thrown at them on this site too

Unfortunately, I got more than my fair share of this kind of abuse on these sites, with things like:

the quintessential WHITE woman -- Siamjai -- via her most recent post, actually a wartime sortie to drop a bomb and kill as many men as possible; men who've taken a shine to Thai women and get this, especially men who TOTALLY IGNORE the western variety! [...]Your court, lass! I thought we ran you out of Patong! I await round 2.

But she being a 52 year old American female. (just looked) Yes, she would be mad at guys like me, who have a 'huge' preferrence for young pretty women and in particularly young Thai women. She seems to think that we do not have the right to such preferrences. The truth is, while I can still attract such women, whether through my wallet, my talents (and I am talented, see: My Webpage) or my position, or intelligence, I will.

- some samples from a much earlier topic.

BabaYaga, that's not to discourage you - this is a great forum otherwise - but just let you know that the species you describe from the other website have taken home here as well. With that said, if you don't criticize those losers looking for Thai daughter-wives here, you'll be safe from similar flames. (doesn't stop me though... )

I hope you'll enjoy your stay here na.

Edited March 5, 2005 by SiamJai

[alaina]

SiamJai,

I read your posts in the other topic and it is unfortunate that most positive or open minded things that are written about farang women will encourage a pile on from some other members. I know I don't bother posting in many topics because I don't feel like having a mindless debate about it. If somebody really wants a TGF, that doesn't bother me, but why must they complain about other women like raving lunatics?

What I have found going out in BKK with female Thai friends is that a few farang guys will come over to talk to us. I have had experiences from outright hostility from the guys that expect me to tell my friends not to talk to them or genuine curiosity to why I am living here. On my third day here a guy said to me the classic, "I haven't slept with a farang girl in twelve years, how about it?"

It can be difficult not to see farang men here in a bad light after having this experience so often but keeping an open mind is always important. There are a**holes everywhere but the ones here get away with being louder about it. Decent guys here really get tired of being grouped into the same category by everybody. I have some guy friends that are not hostile to farang women at all and there must be plenty more out here.

Some of the guys acting like idiots are also great to make fun of when I go out with friends. A guy last week went behind the bar where I was to point out the barmaid's tattoo and try and grope her (at a nice non-working girl type place.) She was very uncomfortable because of him and we just kept laughing and shouting drink orders at him. We got a free round of drinks out of the deal as well as saving her from this troglodyte.

A good thing about being female here is that Thais are usually friendlier to female travelers because some of them also tend to assume that farang men are here for sex. Teaching jobs are also much easier to get as a woman. It's a good workout for the sense of humor too.

[griser]

Boo, I can't say that I agree with your description about western men being intimidated by western women....."Tired of" is the phrase that comes to mind.

It's not that Thai women are subservient, they aren't really. I think it has to do with the fact that they are really commited to their men.

My Thai wife certainly doesn't fit the Meek mold, she's very combative at times. hehe.

Most, not All of the western women I have met in my years are concerned about themselves ahead of their relations ships.

greg

[sbk]

Well, greg, you just answered her question about the bozos.

I am an American woman and have been married for 15 years. My sister is an American woman and she has been married 24. My mother is an American woman and she has been married for nearly 40. My mother has many friends, all of them American women, who have been married for at least 20 years. Try another one buddy as you cearly don't know what you are talking about. Stop seeing your few experiences as applying to all Western women since, frankly, we do happen to number in the millions and it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY we are all EXACTLY THE SAME!!!

Enough!

Welcome to the forum Babayaga. Wish I could help with the meeting people thing but I live out in the boonies, most of the western women are here for holidays. There's a few living here but mostly they are into the family/kid thing which my husband and I aren't. So, not always alot in common other than we live in the same place!

Good luck to you all the same, I think you will enjoy Thailand as the Thais do tend to be much friendlier towards single farang women travellers.

[britmaveric]

A good thing about being female here is that Thais are usually friendlier to female travelers because some of them also tend to assume that farang men are here for sex.

Pearl- I have to disagree with you there - I've found if you are kind, considerate and respect Thai's you encounter friendliness everywhere whether you are male or female farang.

[Boo]

Err Griser, I think you need to get some glasses, can you point me to the part of my post where I said western men are intimidated by western women???

Err and I think you'll also see that I was quite clear that thai women were strong & independent so could you at least read the post properly before replying.

Sorry if thats too self concering of me, I am English after all but one of the things I hate is being misquoted

[solodennis]

... very interesting!

I sat down the other day and tried to count the countries I have been in the 65 years I have been alive. I think it is 58 of which I have been exposed to many different cultures and their woman.

Now I will say as I pointed out on another topic that I have been married twrice to western woman and the unions all came to the end of their roads. The first just lady decided her love affair with booze was more important, the second more or less got tired of being with a gypsy and made a decision to grow roots and the last was just a old man making the classic mistake of hooking up with a lady he met in Fort Lauderdale who was too young and went to work empting his pockets... OK, these snippits could happen anywhere with any race...

HOWEVER... now that I have become a senior citizen, I am not attracting young hard bodies of any ilk other than the working kind and I have found in my travels that most older western ladies have not kept themselves up to 'some level of standard'... they have become overweight, anal, and very set in their routines. They have been divorced, buried husbands and their pocessions, lifestyle and grandkids are the driving force and other than some cruise ship or inclusive vacation, they are not going anywhere, let along get off the beaten path and 'see the world'. I am still a viable man... keep in shape physically and mentally and altlhough no sex machine, I like making love to a receptive woman from time to time... I think that many western woman are just products of the times and I don't know if that is good or bad, but I liked my mom who was respected by her husband and her children but she knew what her role model was as did my dad and today, its alot about power and accumulation and me, me, me... I had a passing relationship with a Chinese lady a few years ago. She had spent some time in UK so she was not some mincing piece of furniture. Sort of the best of two worlds. I was living on a sailboat at the time and the life wasn't for her and I did not know how to or want to change it, so I lost... bad misitake.

As a yonger man I lived in the Phiippines, Japan, Taiwan, and visited Indonesia, China and some other Asian countries... never made it to Thailand until now with my upcoming trip. I am not looking for a maid or a slave... I am not looking with a passion but I have an open mind and I am thinking that the way things are, this may be a last option as I am not much of a catch for most westen woman... don't have much to offer like houses, cars, yachts, bank accounts, etc. etc...

It is what it is.... and it is not about farang lady bashing

dennis

Edited March 5, 2005 by solodennis

[aaaaaa]

I'm just wondering what I'm in for. I'm moving to Thailand next month, what kind of people should i expect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is the essence of your message / question, am I right? it'd've been easier and simple to ask this without emotionally toned words.

I agree with those members who expressed the opinion that there are good and bad people among both men and women, black and white, western and asian (in this case - Thai) in Thailand. so, I think that is not main point. the main point is - what we want to see / find or looking for. and I'd humbly suggest that you try to look positively - try to see good people without stereotypes or prejudices. and trust me - you'll meet a lot of good people here !

I have a lot of very good friends among western women - including american and canadian. one of them has thought me a very simple and seemingly obvious truth or wisdom which was in fact her own personal realization after her first visit to Thailand, and particulalry Pattaya (sort of the capital among the destinations for people with certain interest - sex). first she was upset, frustrated and dissapointed that she was sort of mislead or even cheated by travel agent, and then by what she saw there.... and then she tried to change her perception and attitude and tried to see everything there from some different point of view. and it worked - she said she spent a nice time there and in fact was glad for life's lesson she's learned there, which later she shared with our mutual friend and later told me too. so, here is it: "We may not always be able to choose WHAT to see, but surely always have a choise of HOW to see that".

in other words - don't concentrate on a$$holes and what other word you used? ah yeah :

What is the ratio of moronic pigs to normal people among the ex-pats in BKK? What kind of problems have you experienced?

so, don't bother about them and especially - don't concentrate on them ! try to see and notice nice and kind and beautifull people around here - and as already many others said here - such nice people a plenty in Thialand. and a$$holes / moronic pigs (as well as, well - "huge femenist rants" as you yourself defined it so) - are everywhere same - even on the moon !

don't try to concentrate on negative things!

BTW - I hope you've chosen your nick-name BabaYaga not for some self-deprecatory reason ! I hope it is just for fun / humour only. otherwise if it was such reason - then perhaps there is realy something bitter inside you or lack of self - esteem ....

and yes, welcome on board !

[Boo]

Dennis, you make some good points & I think I can speak for many a young western women when we say that we really have no issue with guys coming here looking for women (I personally don't) but do have an objection to the kind of abuse that we have to put up with from guys who don't have your outlook on life & past loves. Enjoy your trip to Thialand & I hope you find some fun

[solodennis]

...boo

Thanks for being able to read between the lines. If there was a western lady out there who would love me for me and want to just live life and enjoy life for itself rather than for the 'stuff' of life then I would be as open to a relationship with her as with any woman who felt the same. I am a bit saddened by the fact that the chance of a relationship with a westen woman certainly should be less problamatic, but as I said, age presents its own problems. I am not interested in some fluff of any race. Oh, I like a neat, trim lady who feels good enough about herself to have taken care... no smoking, no drugs, social booze OK and still has a sense of adventure and is open mined and wants to have someone to enjoy a sunset or a sunrise... a fine meal, a fine wine... love in the afternoon (the best for us older guys...). I think Asian woman have a different outlook because of their culture and I think that because they are behind the new western standards that are driving westen woman, they may be a better choice for an older western man and I am not talking about the bar scene. I have been emailing a lady who lives in northern Thailand and she is 52... If she had wanted out of Thailand or looking for a walking ATM she would have already done that, been there. I think that if a man with decent values and having learned some lessons in life were to come along and treat a lady like her with respect, love and friendship, she might think she had died and went to Thai heaven... *smile*

There are a lot of factors against me hooking up with a western woman... and good god I don't want to end up a lonely old man, which is not an impossibilty.. I too have my own standards and I would rather be lonely than sorry...

dennis

Edited March 5, 2005 by solodennis

[Boo]

I understand what your saying about it being harder for western men to find love later in life, it's also a problem for western women too except they don't have a LOS to come to But I agree that as people get older (particually women) they tend to get set in their ways & have a different outlook on life. Nearly every women of my mother generation that I know of is only interested in their homes & grandchildren, my mum is in love with her home & garden as she grew up in dire poverty & has had to work hard as a single mum to have the life she has now. Her house if worth 3/4 million pounds but she drives a 2nd hand car, shops in charity shops - very popular in the UK & doesnt smoke or drink her whole life, but for her a home is the most important thing in life as her childhood was shocking in it's neglegt, she broke that cycle with my sister & I & dotes on her grandaughter & is very happy with her life. But some people, like yourself don't want that kind of life & have to do what you can to live the life you want. After all we only get one shot, so hopefully things will work out with your lady in the north & if it doesn't there are a few lovely ladies in their 40's in my hubbies home town who have expressed an interest in a western husband

[solodennis]

***After all we only get one shot, so hopefully things will work out with your lady in the north & if it doesn't there are a few lovely ladies in their 40's in my hubbies home town who have expressed an interest in a western husband***

Now your talkin' *smile*

dennis

Edited March 5, 2005 by solodennis

[Queers for Fears]

If Thai women are supposed to be subserviant, then my wife must have missed school the day they taught that. 

You gotta remember that there's a high quotient of men here who are the type who are recently divorced, need to be with someone, and asian women are a bit less "in your face" on average, so the guys feel a bit more relaxed with them.

Unfortunately, many of these men want sex in the same timeframe as they would have in the west, which the average Thai woman is not so forthcoming with right away. Solution? The man looks for a woman who will give him what he wants right away. Unfortunately, and I'm not passing judgement, alot of the girls who will, do it for the cash, or a visa, a combination therof. End result, the guy gets his heart broken or bank account emptied and he's now slagging off Thai women.

So, its not really a problem with western women....its that they have a problem dealing properly with any women.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Thai women are just as in your face as western women after you've been with one a while. The thing about western women here is that they are simply not a factor. You have a huge pool of available sweet Thai women in this country and zero western babes who fit that bill. I love this country

[britmaveric]

If Thai women are supposed to be subserviant, then my wife must have missed school the day they taught that. 

You gotta remember that there's a high quotient of men here who are the type who are recently divorced, need to be with someone, and asian women are a bit less "in your face" on average, so the guys feel a bit more relaxed with them.

Unfortunately, many of these men want sex in the same timeframe as they would have in the west, which the average Thai woman is not so forthcoming with right away. Solution? The man looks for a woman who will give him what he wants right away. Unfortunately, and I'm not passing judgement, alot of the girls who will, do it for the cash, or a visa, a combination therof. End result, the guy gets his heart broken or bank account emptied and he's now slagging off Thai women.

So, its not really a problem with western women....its that they have a problem dealing properly with any women.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Thai women are just as in your face as western women after you've been with one a while. The thing about western women here is that they are simply not a factor. You have a huge pool of available sweet Thai women in this country and zero western babes who fit that bill. I love this country

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[johnnyk]

boo,

Actually western women do have a LoS to escape to, more than one.

There are substantial numbers of western females who jet off for a week of shagging local talent in The Gambia (well-documented, Sunday Times etc), Jamaica and other warm spots.

However, I think they may be smarter than some of the falangs who come to LoS as they realize its a paying shagfest and don't harbour illusions of marrying the P4P boys who work the beach.

Edited March 6, 2005 by johnnyk

[chonabot]

I think they may be smarter than some of the falangs who come to LoS as they realize its a paying shagfest and don't harbour illusions of marrying the P4P boys who work the beach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you believe the Sun etc I think you'll find a fair amount of them do marry their gigolo studmuffins.

[aaaaaa]

somehow BabaYaga keeps quite .... not interested to know what the comments are on her thread ?

[chonabot]

somehow BabaYaga keeps quite .... not interested to know what the comments are on her thread ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Babayaga = BloodyTrolla

[BabaYaga]

Well for goodness sakes, Chonabot, I only posted this yesterday. Do you check your threads every hour? Or is there something else that inspired you to insult me?

Thanks so much for all your replies, they're very encouraging, and full of great advice. I will definitely concentrate on the good things in Thailand. I apologize if I gave the imporession that I thought that all ex-pat men were a**holes and moronic pigs, only that some of them appear to be. And some of them appear to be because I've found a huge amount of chauvinistic posts (again - on other sites - and sorry for the URL!), and not a lot of positive posts concerning women (but some)! Certainly if I thought that all ex-pats were pigs, I wouldn't ask about the 'ratio', now would I?

Seems like I've touched a nerve with some people - Even when I specifically say that I'm not trying to go off on a femenist rant, but only trying to get some objective opinions, the exact opposite is what registers. And no, I chose the name BabaYaga because I love the old Russian witch, not because I'm struggling with a lack of self esteem. I like the idea of travelling in a mortar and pestle, living in a house on chicken legs, and occasionally eating people. (Kidding!) But thank you for asking.

Well, I hope I haven't stirred up any bad blood. I'll admit I'm a bit of a devil's advocate, but in a good natured kind of way. I don't take myself too seriously, and if you don't either, we'll get along just fine.

Perhaps when I get to BKK, we can get together for a cup of coffee?

[chonabot]

Perhaps when I get to BKK, we can get together for a cup of coffee?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blimey you move fast !

[BabaYaga]

Shucks, sugar. I didn't mean you.

But that brings up another point - someone said that Thailand was - how did they put it - a paying shagfest? This conversation was sidetracked at sveral points into a discussion about dating and relationships. (For the record, I think it's perfectly fine to date anyone you please for any reason you like. It's your life, isn't it?)

At the risk of being controversial again:

Do farang women often date Thai men?

Will I be misinterpreted if I invite people for a friendly cup of coffee?

[Queers for Fears]

Farang women represent less than 1% of the expat community here. I love this country

[SiamJai]

it is unfortunate that most positive or open minded things that are written about farang women will encourage a pile on from some other members. I know I don't bother posting in many topics because I don't feel like having a mindless debate about it.

Pearl, I can only agree with you - but done so with a sad smile. After all, these forums are here for freely letting others know about our thoughts on whatever suitable topic, and -hopefully- getting into a fruitful conversation. It's a pity when we have to suppress and keep inside these thoughts, simply because we grew tired of getting flamed for them inevitabely.

Oh... and thank you for taking your time reading the linked topic.

try to see good people without stereotypes or prejudices. and trust me - you'll meet a lot of good people here !

I agree, Dennis. And I even more agree with your advice, ignoring the ones, you called them...

don't concentrate on a$$holes

My thoughts exactly! They are so easily recognized... especially when they just repeat themselves like a broken record. Edited March 6, 2005 by SiamJai

[SiamJai]

Do farang women often date Thai men?

Will I be misinterpreted if I invite people for a friendly cup of coffee?

Those are some interesting questions I'd also like to know the answer to. As far as I know, Thai men can spend time with any members of the opposite sex without eliciting any naughty assumption. This is not the case with Thai females, sadly.

[Sir Burr]

Baba Yaga. Hmmmmm........ wasn't Baba Yaga an evil child-eating Russian witch that lived in a house that walked on chicken legs?

[cdnvic]

Baba Yaga. Hmmmmm........ wasn't Baba Yaga an evil child-eating Russian witch that lived in a house that walked on chicken legs?

Yep, and I believe she's an evil witch about as much as I believe you're a brave knight. .

cv