Hostility Towards Farang Women?

[sbk]

Only braying on this forum I hear comes from sbaker.

[Boon Mee]

Only braying on this forum I hear comes from sbaker.   

Well, we need at least one to keep things "interesting"?

Kinda like keeping the Gent around...

[Polly]

I think the whole issue here is his perception of women's hostility to men, but his hostility to western women is almost palpable. Men have always had hositility to women, hence all the worst things that men can call people, even each other, are the derogatory terms used for female genitalia.

You don't think, Mr Baker, that your overt hositility to women may just encourage people to be hostile to you.

I think you are given to exaggeration with your 'chest beating and braying 24 hours a day.'

[nick2k]

I was born and raised in the usa. some observations...

in america, at least on the west coast, often when a man looks at a woman, the woman will stare back in a hostile way. and many times, tell the man to not stare. quote, "it is impolite".

if the man happens to be old, usually, you will get added the quote, "dirty old man". or, "you could be my father."

on the other hand, here in thailand, when I look at a young woman, I often get a smile.

now, ladies.... tell me how you would react if a man whether it be young or old look at you. would you show hostility towards the person, or smile?

...it's all about attitude.

of course, this is a generalization. I'm sure it doesn't happen all the time. but in my experience, more often than not.

www.nomarriage.com

[sbk]

I was born and raised in the usa.  some observations...

in america, at least on the west coast, often when a man looks at a woman, the woman will stare back in a hostile way.  and many times, tell the man to not stare.  quote, "it is impolite".

if the man happens to be old, usually, you will get added the quote, "dirty old man".  or, "you could be my father."

on the other hand, here in thailand, when I look at a young woman, I often get a smile.

now, ladies....  tell me how you would react if a man whether it be young or old look at you.  would you show hostility towards the person, or smile?

...it's all about attitude.

of course, this is a generalization.  I'm sure it doesn't happen all the time.  but in my experience, more often than not.

www.nomarriage.com

This is an old issue that has been addressed in other posts. But, for your newbie sake I will repeat myself .

Take a poll, ask your female friends in the US how many times, as a teenager or as a young woman, they were sexually harassed, ask them how many times they had some man expose himself, ask them how many peeping toms they had to put up with. I learned my lesson about making eye contact with a strange man when I was 13 years old and a man stopped me to ostensibly ask me for directions, when, in fact, he was exposing himself to me. He looked to be about late 20's early 30's. Certainly not anyone's idea of a dirty old man. When I was 17 I had a serial peeping tom, I kept my curtains pulled tighly shut for years afterwards. In high school I was sexually groped by a guy walking down the hallway. And I am not unusual, this happens to girls regularly. You are a guy, you do not have a clue what it is like. There is nothing like having one's personal space invaded in a way that feels sexually threatening to keep one from being overly friendly to strange men.

Next time you decide that the girl is being unfriendly, try to look at things from her point of view. My father once said to me that it deeply bothers him that his daughters cannot walk down the street without being at risk from some weirdo.

[toastwars]

I think the whole issue here is his perception of women's hostility to men, but his hostility to western women is almost palpable. Men have always had hositility to women, hence all the worst things that men can call people, even each other, are the derogatory terms used for female genitalia.

You don't think, Mr Baker, that your overt hositility to women may just encourage people to be hostile to you.

I think you are given to exaggeration with your 'chest beating and braying 24 hours a day.'

I find this reply a little strange, I need some clarification, after all a word is just a word, it is how you choose to percive it that matters.

Being called a dick is classed as a derogatory term but how many men refer to their genitalia as a dick!

I know that there are certain words that women find unacceptable I always wondered why there was so much reaction to those words, after all there are just as many terms of reference to the male bits it is just that man tend not to take it as seriously.

be proud of your muff, quim, fadge, foofoo, fluff, gash or flange I think it would be a step forward.

I am not in any way a chauvanist, I cook clean and sew for myself think of women as my equal and have just as many female friends as male ones, i just think that a lot of women do have too much of a hang up about what are after all only words and are not exclusively references to female genitalia, cock, dick and penis are just as often used as insulting terms.

There are certain words that I do not use but only because I would not want to offend my female friends but I sometimes feel as if they are oversensitive like yourself to the C word in particular, I have a few female friends who use this word. perhaps as an attitude shifter all women should start using it more regually I think you would be pleasantly suprised at the shocked reaction from men, take it back for yourselves and then it may cause less of a victim complex.

I am not trying to be insulting with this reply just trying to look at the issue in a different way.

[sbaker8688]

<<I think the whole issue here is his perception of women's hostility to men, but his hostility to western women is almost palpable.>>

I would refer to it as "dislike" or "nonpreference". And it's not palpable. You only think so because I am posting my opinions (which you do not like) in a public forum. If we had met somewhere in person, you would never hear me discuss it or bring it up. You'd also consider me to be one of the more polite chaps you'd ever met. In fact, I've never been hostile to anyone. At least not without reason.

The difference between my "hostility" and theirs is, 1) Mine isn't personal, it's general (I am not hostile to any western woman in particular that I happen to meet - in fact I am quite polite and pleasant), and 2) Mine is reactive to theirs. I see their hostility, and want out.

<<Men have always had hositility to women, >>

Of course you think like this. You are a woman with hostility to men. You hate men. You view them as the "enemy," and you view yourself as some sort of "victim." You prove my point. You are why I want out, and why I am getting out. Every western woman I have ever met, to one degree or another, has the same sentiment. I want no part of it. You are no doubt western and feminist... correct?

<<hence all the worst things that men can call people, even each other, are the derogatory terms used for female genitalia.>>

Oh, I can think of many derogatory terms for men - dick, as.sho!e, etc. No need to justify your hostility to men with such silliness. Just say "I hate men" and be done with it.

<<You don't think, Mr Baker, that your overt hositility to women may just encourage people to be hostile to you. >>

No. Because I have no overt (or even covert) hostility to women. I have a general and reactionary nonpreference for western women. More to the point - no nonwestern woman has ever been hostile to me. Which means that, according to your logic above, I must not be hostile to them, thus I must not be encouraging them to be hostile to me in return. Yet I treat them the same as everyone else. I'd say this defeats your attempt at a point rather soundly.

You ignore the fact that I have never detected any hostility towards men in nonwestern women. Ever. Period. Put me in a room full of western and nonwestern women, blindfold me so that I can't see any racial or cultural differences, put some high-tech earmuffs over my ears which magically filters out any accents in speech, and I can easily tell you which women are western and which are not by talking with them. So could many other men I know. Can you explain that?

You ignore the experience of millions of other men who experience the same things that I describe. One by one, all of my friends have figured it out and have gone to eastern europe and russia to find women. One by one, they find a world of tremendous difference between how they are treated by non-western women, and western women. One by one, they prefer and take foreign (nonwestern) women to be their brides over western women. Some have found it so good overseas, that they have remained there, never to return home. Simply because of the women.

It's rather funny. We all detect western women's hostiity to men easily enough. Yet you all deny it. Yet, in your very denials, you all exude hostility in your posts, and even defend and rationalize it (yours above with the "men have always had hostility to women," SBK's with her sexual harassment spiel on this page, an earlier post about how men have always run and controlled society, etc).

Instead of denying your hostilty, I think it would be far more believable, credible, and constructive to simply admit your hostility, and give your feminist "rationale" for it. Be proud of it. Say that you are "correct" in your hostility to men. Say we "deserve" it. Cite all the "injustices" that men have "perpetrated" against women. But just admit it and be done with it.

It's no big secret that the feminist agenda is one born out of hostility to men. Why you people feel the need to deny the obvious is... interesting.

[nick2k]

I was born and raised in the usa.  some observations...

in america, at least on the west coast, often when a man looks at a woman, the woman will stare back in a hostile way.  and many times, tell the man to not stare.  quote, "it is impolite".

if the man happens to be old, usually, you will get added the quote, "dirty old man".  or, "you could be my father."

on the other hand, here in thailand, when I look at a young woman, I often get a smile.

now, ladies....  tell me how you would react if a man whether it be young or old look at you.  would you show hostility towards the person, or smile?

...it's all about attitude.

of course, this is a generalization.  I'm sure it doesn't happen all the time.  but in my experience, more often than not.

www.nomarriage.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is an old issue that has been addressed in other posts. But, for your newbie sake I will repeat myself .

Take a poll, ask your female friends in the US how many times, as a teenager or as a young woman, they were sexually harassed, ask them how many times they had some man expose himself, ask them how many peeping toms they had to put up with. I learned my lesson about making eye contact with a strange man when I was 13 years old and a man stopped me to ostensibly ask me for directions, when, in fact, he was exposing himself to me. He looked to be about late 20's early 30's. Certainly not anyone's idea of a dirty old man. When I was 17 I had a serial peeping tom, I kept my curtains pulled tighly shut for years afterwards. In high school I was sexually groped by a guy walking down the hallway. And I am not unusual, this happens to girls regularly. You are a guy, you do not have a clue what it is like. There is nothing like having one's personal space invaded in a way that feels sexually threatening to keep one from being overly friendly to strange men.

Next time you decide that the girl is being unfriendly, try to look at things from her point of view. My father once said to me that it deeply bothers him that his daughters cannot walk down the street without being at risk from some weirdo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure you will agree that most men in the world including the usa are decent human beings. the perverts, weirdos, etc. are but a small minority. right?

so, why is it that in the usa, laws have been put in place to control the decent men who just happens to want to look at a woman?

frankly, I find it insulting that a man cannot even approach a woman in the work place for fear of possibly sexually harassing a woman.

hostilities towards women? I think it's the other way around.

and you wonder why men don't want to approach a western woman?

for every instance that you can tell me of a possible sexual harassment, I can give you a story of cruel rejection.

I remember times when I would approach a girl in america only to be told to &lt;deleted&gt; off. I remember hanging out at this bar in san francisco, my friend was interested in this waitress. so, he tried to ask her for her phone number. her cruel response was quote, "why don't you give me a break, I'm working, and have no time to entertain you."

...hostility towards women?

look in the mirror.

[cobra]

Here's to you Shola - and every other person on this thread who can handle talking, arguing, debating, loving, kissing, making love to, and yes, hating real, grown-up women with unprogrammable minds.

Wish I could find the icon that pours a glass of Guinness    Just spend 10 minutes looking for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This should do in a pinch,

[JemJem]

boo,

Actually western women do have a LoS to escape to, more than one.

There are substantial numbers of western females who jet off for a week of shagging local talent in The Gambia (well-documented, Sunday Times etc), Jamaica and other warm spots.

However, I think they may be smarter than some of the falangs who come to LoS as they realize its a paying shagfest and don't harbour illusions of marrying the P4P boys who work the beach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I try to avoid generalisations as much as possible but I guess some Mediterranean countries, notably Greece, Turkey and Spain are also known for this type of thing...right ?

Regards,

Jem

Edited March 18, 2005 by JemJem

[BabaYaga]

Ok, Sbaker, you've got me. You saw past my attempt and the attempts of my sisters to mask our soul searing hatred of men with courtesy and respect. How could you have known, given the patience we have shown you, that truly we are bent on world castration?

How do you know about our agenda? Who told you about the secret meetings of the Sisters of the Apocolypse, where we gather to plot against mankind? Do you know too, about the scoring system, whereby we gain points for every man we lure with our feminine charms only to reject? And to think I was so proud of my rank as Flying C*nt MegaBtch Class III! How did you know that we secretly crave the attentions of men who are emotionally stunted and twice our age? We doll ourselves up only in the hope that men we find unacceptable for glaringly apparent physical and developmental reasons approach us, becasue we live only to crush your souls. That, and the frequent flyer miles we earn.

I repent! From now on, I will smile vacuously each and every time a man approaches me, no matter how insulting, how threatening or innaproriate his behavior! Please, please, take my phone number! Please, go out with me! Let me satisfy you sexually! Let me have your babies! A dozen babies! And - and - I don't need shoes, a career, self-respect, or a life outside of my home! I know now that my purpose in life is to serve you!

Or not.

[JemJem]

But in general, I find that western women have a deep down hostility against men, they have attitude, they are impossible to please, they are only out for themselves, they frequently have multiple mental, psychological, and other disorders, they are frequently bisexual, and they do not appreaciate you as a man. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmmm, you say Western women are 'frequently bisexual', eh ?....interesting....that's something new for me....to be honest, I don't buy it that Western women tend to be 'frequently bisexual'. Where did you get that piece of info anyway ? Actually, someone please correct me if I am wrong but bisexuality is more common in men than in women, so I could claim that Western guys are 'frequently bisexual' !

Cheers,

Jem

[cdnvic]

sbaker must be spending too much time watching movies in booths with quarter slots.

cv

[sbaker8688]

Hmmmm, you say Western women are 'frequently bisexual', eh ?....interesting....that's something new for me....to be honest, I don't buy it that Western women tend to be 'frequently bisexual'. Where did you get that piece of info anyway ? Actually, someone please correct me if I am wrong but bisexuality is more common in men than in women, so I could claim that Western guys are 'frequently bisexual' !

Cheers,

Jem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jem,

Not sure what country you are from. But I can assure you that female bisexuality is rampant in America. I haven't met a girl in years that isn't bisexual. Of course, not all of them call it bisexual. Some of them will say "I'm bi-curious." Some, strangely enough, will say "I'm not bisexual... but sometimes I like to kiss girls, feel them up, have sex with them, blah blah" Some will say "No, I'm not bisexual. I've been with girls before, but I'm not bisexual." But what all that means is - they're bisexual.

I haven't gone out in years without seeing girls crawling all over each other in public, whether it be on the dance floor, in the band room, sitting at the bar - whatever. I really can't turn on the TV anymore without seeing girls kissing each other or doing other things.

In all fairness, some of the blame should be laid at western men. It seems a lot of guys are turned on by it, and encourage it. I'm not one of those guys, but I certainly see a lot of them with their tongues hanging out panting whenever they see two girls together. In fact, it seems to be the majority of men - go figure. But American girls have nevertheless embraced their newfound lesbianism and bisexuality with arms wide open.

Surely I'm not the only one to notice this. Surely the majority on this thread will back me up on this one, if nothing else. If SBK, Kat, Boo and the gang rip me a new one on this, I can only assume that they haven't been to America in years, or if they have, their "married life" keeps them from going out a whole lot.

[cdnvic]

Hmmm.... think it might be time to fire up the troll removal machine... now where did I put my keys?

cv

[demiurge]

This has been a very interesting discussion. I would like to share my observations as an American male of 45yo. First, instead of making grand generalizations about all western women as compared to all eastern women, I think it is only reasonable to give personal first hand experiences. I have dated mostly American women, with two partial exceptions, a Korean woman many years ago (briefly) and my last gf, a woman from Hawaii (50% Japanese,25%Korean, 25%Chinese). So I have no or very limited personal experience with eastern women. I still feel that I have something to contribute. There is enough variation in females attitude towards males in the US to be able to relate to the question at hand.

I find this topic particularly interesting because of a long-term relationship I had a few years ago with a professor (J) at a local university. She was a very strong feminist and definitely had issues towards men. The social group we were in, i.e. other professors, grad students, post docs was contrasted with my long-term friends, i.e. outdoor/sports people, teachers, and other ne'er-do-wells/bohemians We were together for about 5 years and it was a difficult relationship for most of that time. Time and distance has given me perspective on what went wrong. But most importantly, it was a new relationship with L from Hawaii that truly gave me insight.

L was from a very traditional family and she had an eastern perspective towards men and relationships. This took some getting use to after my relationship with J. It was the most pleasant relationship of my life. I think sbaker characterized the difference better than I ever could. J, the professor, had always been a bit hostile and quick to get upset at the smallest perceived slight. My behavior was closely monitored (and controlled) by her. I had a narrow range of acceptable behavior and if I deviated from that range it was cold shoulder, arguments, verbal abuse, etc. Her closest friends, colleagues, and grad students were mostly female. Their spouses/bf were pretty much in the same boat as I. We were all in relationships with ‘controlling’ woman. (To be continued)

[cobra]

I repent! From now on, I will smile vacuously each and every time a man approaches me, no matter how insulting, how threatening or innaproriate his behavior! Please, please, take my phone number! Please, go out with me! Let me satisfy you sexually! Let me have your babies! A dozen babies! And - and - I don't need shoes, a career, self-respect, or a life outside of my home! I know now that my purpose in life is to serve you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.. that's all we ask,

[sbk]

This has been a very interesting discussion.  I would like to share my observations as an American male of 45yo.  First, instead of making grand generalizations about  all western women as compared to all eastern women, I think it is only reasonable to give personal first hand experiences. 

There is enough variation in females attitude towards males in the US to be able to relate to the question at hand. 

Oh, you can't want to be reasonable! And only make observations based on your experiences! C'mon, where is the fun in that?