Is This Too Good To Be True?

[johnnymoretti]

Hello my dear fellow boarders....

Here is the scoop on this deal that we have run into. To lay out the foundation (no pun intended) here is my situation:

1. Married to Thai. Here on Marriage Visa from US. Wife also has US Green Card and residency in US.

2. Dear friend with 4-star resort Resident Manager, "Nu", who wants to buy land and possibly sub-divide.

3. Property is in Phang Nga Province within 1km of Andaman Sea and within other fine resorts and upscale farang homes.

4. Chinote land deed, 2.5 rai total.

5. I do not have a retirement visa or permission for investment in Thailand. Simply a marriage visa.

(For the record, if you want to return comments to bash Thai wives and some ulterior motives some may have, save your breath. I, for one, trust my wife and even if I didn't, I wouldn't care if she took me for all my money. It would be my own hanging.)

Okay.

Our dear friend "Nu", a Thai, wants to buy the 2.5 rai from the owner. He currently owns land and house in Khao Lak, but wishes to invest in this new parcel. The price is right for the 2.5 rai, but he's worried he wouldn't get the loan. If he is denied the loan, he would like to form an agreement with my wife and I that we would purchase 1 rai from him and he would retain the other 1.5 rai. (Rather than not get any land if the bank denies his loan application, he would be selling off 1 rai to us). We would pay approximately 44% of the original price of the 2.5 rai. He would sell one of his vehicles and other property to make up the difference to pay cash for the total property since he would have been denied a bank loan. We have cash to pay our share for the 1 rai.

We (my Thai wife and "Nu") would sign an agreement that he is selling 1 rai to us, complete with survey of the newly divided land. He would then pay the land owner the total amount for 2.5 rai in cash from our proceeds and his own. The land owner would sign off on the title to "Nu". My wife and "Nu" would then go to the orbitor to officially divide the land and get a new chinote to show the two parcels of land and its respected owners.

The land in question is no doubt a good buy. Not a SUPER buy, but well within reason. I do NOT feel any unscrupulous activity by any party to this transaction. My question is simply this:

Is this legal?

What potential problems can I expect?

What do I need to do OR not do as a farang married to my wife?

Should I find a reason to walk away?

Your expertise and insight are truly welcome and helpful! Thank you!!!

[katabeachbum]

Register in land office a loan for the 44% in Chanote. Loan has to be repayed in full within x (max 3) years, if not all land is automaticly transfered to you. Cancell loan after subdivision and when transfer land to you.

[Gary A]

As long as the land is able to be subdivided and a legal chanote can be had, I see no problems. You are obviously aware that the land will belong to your wife. You will be required to sign a document that says you have no financial interest in the property.

Just be sure that the land can be subdivided and is eligible to have a chanote before you pay. It's up to you to determine if the price is right.

[InterestedObserver]

You, of course, know that a farang cannot own land in Thailand and you will be required to sign a statement at the local land office to the effect that you have no financial interest in the land, it's all Sin Suan Tua, before your wife can get her hands on the chanote(s). If you have no money invested in the deal, why walk away? Is it a good deal for your wife, cannot answer that. Oh yes, there is no 'we' in this deal, legally it will all be on your wife.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Hello my dear fellow boarders....

Here is the scoop on this deal that we have run into. To lay out the foundation (no pun intended) here is my situation:

1. Married to Thai. Here on Marriage Visa from US. Wife also has US Green Card and residency in US.

2. Dear friend with 4-star resort Resident Manager, "Nu", who wants to buy land and possibly sub-divide.

3. Property is in Phang Nga Province within 1km of Andaman Sea and within other fine resorts and upscale farang homes.

4. Chinote land deed, 2.5 rai total.

5. I do not have a retirement visa or permission for investment in Thailand. Simply a marriage visa.

(For the record, if you want to return comments to bash Thai wives and some ulterior motives some may have, save your breath. I, for one, trust my wife and even if I didn't, I wouldn't care if she took me for all my money. It would be my own hanging.)

Okay.

Our dear friend "Nu", a Thai, wants to buy the 2.5 rai from the owner. He currently owns land and house in Khao Lak, but wishes to invest in this new parcel. The price is right for the 2.5 rai, but he's worried he wouldn't get the loan. If he is denied the loan, he would like to form an agreement with my wife and I that we would purchase 1 rai from him and he would retain the other 1.5 rai. (Rather than not get any land if the bank denies his loan application, he would be selling off 1 rai to us). We would pay approximately 44% of the original price of the 2.5 rai. He would sell one of his vehicles and other property to make up the difference to pay cash for the total property since he would have been denied a bank loan. We have cash to pay our share for the 1 rai.

We (my Thai wife and "Nu") would sign an agreement that he is selling 1 rai to us, complete with survey of the newly divided land. He would then pay the land owner the total amount for 2.5 rai in cash from our proceeds and his own. The land owner would sign off on the title to "Nu". My wife and "Nu" would then go to the orbitor to officially divide the land and get a new chinote to show the two parcels of land and its respected owners.

The land in question is no doubt a good buy. Not a SUPER buy, but well within reason. I do NOT feel any unscrupulous activity by any party to this transaction. My question is simply this:

Is this legal?

Subject to search of the land title, I see no legal issues with Nu buying the land.

For the agreement to lend Nu a portion of the money to purchase the land and the subsequent cutting and transfer of the land into your wifes name you should take proper legal advice and the professional drafting of the agreement to cover all possibilities including provisions if the transaction fails for any reason, your funds are paid over directly to the seller only at the time of land transfer, payment of taxes, timescale for cutting and transfer into your wifes name etc etc

What potential problems can I expect?

None that I can see providing Nu is sincere and the title search doesn't throw up any issues.

What do I need to do OR not do as a farang married to my wife?

1. Find a lawyer to search the land title and draw up the agreement between Nu and your wife.

2. At the time of registration in your wifes name, you will be called upon to sign the declaration that the funds belong to your wife.

Should I find a reason to walk away?

1. Depends on the search and your gut feeling.

Your expertise and insight are truly welcome and helpful! Thank you!!!

Hope these help.

[chiangmaibruce]

He would then pay the land owner the total amount for 2.5 rai in cash from our proceeds and his own. The land owner would sign off on the title to "Nu". My wife and "Nu" would then go to the orbitor to officially divide the land and get a new chinote to show the two parcels of land and its respected owners.

Hmm. Just trying to sus out the worst-case scenario here, as I trust you have already done.

1. Agree with suggestion of getting a loan agreement recorded to cover you until such time as the subdivision has occurred. If the subdivision never occurs, for whatever reason, what is your fall-back position then?

2. Regarding the above quote I would recommend having your wife (if she knows real estate dealings) or someone VERY trust-worthy there with Nu and your money at the land office at the time of hand-over. This to ensure the sale price you have been told is accurate, that Nu has his share of the money on the table before ANY of yours is committed, that the money goes to the land-owner and not elsewhere, and that everything is OK with the title.

I would not accept any excuses for not complying with the above

[thaiwanderer]

We (my Thai wife and "Nu") would sign an agreement that he is selling 1 rai to us, complete with survey of the newly divided land. He would then pay the land owner the total amount for 2.5 rai in cash from our proceeds and his own. The land owner would sign off on the title to "Nu". My wife and "Nu" would then go to the orbitor to officially divide the land and get a new chinote to show the two parcels of land and its respected owners.

As per Malcominthemiddle caution needed here and a mere agreement on its own will not adequately protect your 1rai cash. Your wife and Nu should both be registered as owners of the whole 2.5rai (with perhaps provision for the 1 / 1.5rai shares) upon transfer of the funds to the seller. Good legal advice required here and a decent agreement but most importantly your wife's interest must be registered from the outset. Otherwise the danger is that for whatever reason Nu buys the 2.5rai and your wife never gets any land and loses your money.

As others said its essentially never your land whatever happens.

Other matters to consider is a thorough investigation of the title (ownership history, zoning, possible uses) aswell as whether subdividion is even possible (it is not always).

[stdn]

Might be to good to be truth, might not ...that is the question.To buy or not to buy? to be or not to be?

Answers on previous reply posts gives you all you need to know info's for your case.

[stgrhe]

We (my Thai wife and "Nu") would sign an agreement that he is selling 1 rai to us, complete with survey of the newly divided land. He would then pay the land owner the total amount for 2.5 rai in cash from our proceeds and his own. The land owner would sign off on the title to "Nu". My wife and "Nu" would then go to the orbitor to officially divide the land and get a new chinote to show the two parcels of land and its respected owners.

As per Malcominthemiddle caution needed here and a mere agreement on its own will not adequately protect your 1rai cash. Your wife and Nu should both be registered as owners of the whole 2.5rai (with perhaps provision for the 1 / 1.5rai shares) upon transfer of the funds to the seller. Good legal advice required here and a decent agreement but most importantly your wife's interest must be registered from the outset. Otherwise the danger is that for whatever reason Nu buys the 2.5rai and your wife never gets any land and loses your money.

As others said its essentially never your land whatever happens.

Other matters to consider is a thorough investigation of the title (ownership history, zoning, possible uses) aswell as whether subdividion is even possible (it is not always).

This is very good advice but still, this is how I would do it:

1. Before any money is handed over to Nu he checks with his bank whether he can get his loan or not. If the answer is yes you and your wife are aout of the picture.

2. If the answer is no I would first request that the current land owner subdivide the land into two plots, one being 1.5 rai for Nu and one 1 rai plot for your wife.

3. Nu signs his contract with the land owner for his plot, pay the money and the title changes hands.

4. Your wife signs a separate contract with the land owner for her plot, she pays the money, gets the title and the land is yours.

This is to me the only sensible way of doing this business and much too often "smart" solutions have hidden agendas. Friend or not with Nu I would treat the business professionally in the manner of risk minimisation.

Good luck to you

[Lopburi99]

Seems like the smart posters above have provided suggestions about your idea's legality and how to go about executing it. My only general comment is to be sure you are in the driver's seat at all times with your investment being fully protected at all stages, and to trust nobody. Maybe a contract will not be kept for whatever reason, so a possible default by the actions or inactions of others must not jeopardize your investment. Keep your guard up and everything will be ok.

However, are you sure you want to go ahead with this? Somehow I sense some hesitation/reluctance, probably by your "should I find a reason to just walk away?" or "Is this too good to be true?" statements.

In any event, Good luck.

Regards

Edited August 13, 2009 by Lopburi99

[Artisi]

Just bear in mind the old saying, "If it's too good to be true, probably it isn't"

[Livinginexile]

I will assume you have done your due diligence on the value of this land.

And if it is a very good deal as you say, why not do what a Thai would do in the exact same situation?

Just go right over the top of Du and buy the lot from right under his nose.

[lannarebirth]

I'm not qualified to judge if it's too good to be true, but my experience tells me it's too complicated to be good. Deep discounts should be expected when you have to buy into "other peoples agendas". That you should hold first position on the entire property goes without saying.

[Lopburi99]

I'm not qualified to judge if it's too good to be true, but my experience tells me it's too complicated to be good. Deep discounts should be expected when you have to buy into "other peoples agendas". That you should hold first position on the entire property goes without saying.

LRB is definitely correct about this. Your deal is probably not as good as it should be, and given it's complexity I don't think I would proceed unless there are other factors motivating you which you did not mention.

[rgs2001uk]

Hello my dear fellow boarders....

Here is the scoop on this deal that we have run into. To lay out the foundation (no pun intended) here is my situation:

1. Married to Thai. Here on Marriage Visa from US. Wife also has US Green Card and residency in US.

2. Dear friend with 4-star resort Resident Manager, "Nu", who wants to buy land and possibly sub-divide.

3. Property is in Phang Nga Province within 1km of Andaman Sea and within other fine resorts and upscale farang homes.

4. Chinote land deed, 2.5 rai total.

5. I do not have a retirement visa or permission for investment in Thailand. Simply a marriage visa.

(For the record, if you want to return comments to bash Thai wives and some ulterior motives some may have, save your breath. I, for one, trust my wife and even if I didn't, I wouldn't care if she took me for all my money. It would be my own hanging.)

Okay.

Our dear friend "Nu", a Thai, wants to buy the 2.5 rai from the owner. He currently owns land and house in Khao Lak, but wishes to invest in this new parcel. The price is right for the 2.5 rai, but he's worried he wouldn't get the loan. If he is denied the loan, he would like to form an agreement with my wife and I that we would purchase 1 rai from him and he would retain the other 1.5 rai. (Rather than not get any land if the bank denies his loan application, he would be selling off 1 rai to us). We would pay approximately 44% of the original price of the 2.5 rai. He would sell one of his vehicles and other property to make up the difference to pay cash for the total property since he would have been denied a bank loan. We have cash to pay our share for the 1 rai.

We (my Thai wife and "Nu") would sign an agreement that he is selling 1 rai to us, complete with survey of the newly divided land. He would then pay the land owner the total amount for 2.5 rai in cash from our proceeds and his own. The land owner would sign off on the title to "Nu". My wife and "Nu" would then go to the orbitor to officially divide the land and get a new chinote to show the two parcels of land and its respected owners.

The land in question is no doubt a good buy. Not a SUPER buy, but well within reason. I do NOT feel any unscrupulous activity by any party to this transaction. My question is simply this:

Is this legal?

What potential problems can I expect?

What do I need to do OR not do as a farang married to my wife?

Should I find a reason to walk away?

Your expertise and insight are truly welcome and helpful! Thank you!!!

Lets assume the owner wants to sell 2 1/2 rai.

Your dear friend buys 1 1/2 rai from the owner

Your wife buys the other 1 rai from the owner.

You can then draw up a legal agreement for your dear friend to purchase the 1 rai from you after x years for the going market rate at the time, also written into the contract is the rider that if he cant come up with the money at the specified time you are free to sell to whoever.

I would also employ due dilligence to see excatly what 1 rai you would be buying, access etc.

Personally I take my lead from the Thais and never do business with family or friends.

[Honolulu]

I see no reason that you should take any risk on this. It would be smart to at least sit down with a lawyer and discuss it. Why not let a lawyer act as escrow person in the transaction, someone impartial, who controls the signing of the documents and disbursing of the funds based upon fulfillment of the terms of the contract?

[Macx]

A friend of mine (a farang with Thai wife) has just done a similar land purchase with the one "Thai friend" buyer who suggested exactly what your friend Nu is suggesting. Of course he did not buy through the friend. They asked the owner to divide the land and make two separate sales, which were done at the same time (both parties, showing up together and paying together and going to the land office and register and paying the taxes together).

Your question: "Is it legal?"

Yes, but what happens if Nu keeps the land for himself AND refuses to repay you? Do you think the Thai police and legal system will help you, and for how much, and how long would it take?

If you do a bit of research, you will see numerous woes and pitfalls of such contracts.

Your money should never leave your hands until you get the title in your hands. Period.

There is no need for contracts or even lawyers to write said contracts. Who is to say the lawyer isn't crooked and in cahoot with the other guy? However, you do need to do a proper search of the land title and current owner.

[doodee]

If you have no last will and testement i would make one up based on you buying this land for your wife.If your wife died before you what would happen?????

good luck but beware of the quicksand

[12DrinkMore]

This is very good advice but still, this is how I would do it:

1. Before any money is handed over to Nu he checks with his bank whether he can get his loan or not. If the answer is yes you and your wife are aout of the picture.

2. If the answer is no I would first request that the current land owner subdivide the land into two plots, one being 1.5 rai for Nu and one 1 rai plot for your wife.

3. Nu signs his contract with the land owner for his plot, pay the money and the title changes hands.

4. Your wife signs a separate contract with the land owner for her plot, she pays the money, gets the title and the land is yours.

This is to me the only sensible way of doing this business and much too often "smart" solutions have hidden agendas. Friend or not with Nu I would treat the business professionally in the manner of risk minimisation.

Only choice.

Do not get involved in these "help me to help you" schemes. There is a lot of land around Khao Lak for sale. If you REALLY want to buy in there, then go and find a chunk. In over a decade of living here I, or my GF, have been approached loads of times with "great opportunities". One guy took me around his chunk of land and wanted me to make a "joint venture", he supplied the land and I was supposed to supply the cash to develop a resort. I said, "well, how about you sell me the land and then you develop the resort on my land with the cash?"

I wonder why he lost interest in "our friendship" after that?

[ballbreaker]

This is very good advice but still, this is how I would do it:

1. Before any money is handed over to Nu he checks with his bank whether he can get his loan or not. If the answer is yes you and your wife are aout of the picture.

2. If the answer is no I would first request that the current land owner subdivide the land into two plots, one being 1.5 rai for Nu and one 1 rai plot for your wife.

3. Nu signs his contract with the land owner for his plot, pay the money and the title changes hands.

4. Your wife signs a separate contract with the land owner for her plot, she pays the money, gets the title and the land is yours.

This is to me the only sensible way of doing this business and much too often "smart" solutions have hidden agendas. Friend or not with Nu I would treat the business professionally in the manner of risk minimisation.

Good luck to you

Above is the best and only option you should consider.

Under your plan Nu has not mentioned what 1 rai you would buy from him. Contracts need to spell that out because he could force you to buy a land locked 1 rai from him if contract exists.