Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

[churchill]

Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

BANGKOK: -- A procession of 1,000 red-shirt people will follow their 8 representatives to submit 500 boxes of copies of the Thaksin pardon petition to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary on Monday, their leaders announced Thursday.

Natthawut Saikua and Arisman Pongruangrong told a press conference that the eight representative would submit some of the copies of the petition to the office and the red-shirt people would carry the rest to the office in a elaborate procession.

The red-shirt people have gathered millions of signatures to petition His Majesty for a royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Arisman said 1,000 red-shirt people form process to carry 500 boxes of the copies of the petition. They will follow a line of 1,000 monks. At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

-- The Nation 13/08/09

[sunholidaysun1]

OK, Pardon him now and let him back. Then after 5 minutes of freedom arrerst him again for all the other crimes alegedly he has commited , throw him in the BKK Hilton and let him wait there 5 years until the courts have all th eevidence of everything on him , then when convicted , throw away the key. One pardon per person only

[Moonrakers]

At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

Why?

[mrtoad]

At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

Why?

Which national flahs will they be carrying? Maybe the ones that Thaksin is not allowed into anymore.

[animatic]

Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

BANGKOK: -- A procession of 1,000 will follow their 8...

red-shirt people would carry the rest to the office in a elaborate procession....

....They will follow a line of 1,000 monks. At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

-- The Nation 13/08/09

Pomp and Circumcision

Can't even count.

70+ flag bearers

1000 monks

+ 8 "Tetes Rouge'

+ 1000 "Rouge Merdes"

2,078 will be marching to Pretoria's

And what of the ONE Respected Person???

2,079 is the this an 'auspisious number'?

Who get the double flags?

And what color?

Edited August 13, 2009 by animatic

[Jingthing]

At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

Propaganda. To give the impression to Thai people that the world is behind Thaksin, when actually the world thinks Thaksin is a behind. Another symptom of his severe Mandela complex ...

Edited August 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[TPI]

OK, Pardon him now and let him back. Then after 5 minutes of freedom arrerst him again for all the other crimes alegedly he has commited , throw him in the BKK Hilton and let him wait there 5 years until the courts have all th eevidence of everything on him , then when convicted , throw away the key. One pardon per person only

The best idea I've seen all week...it's a pity that the government doesn't use lateral thinking?

[Ferwert]

Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

BANGKOK: -- A procession of 1,000 red-shirt people will follow their 8 representatives to submit 500 boxes of copies of the Thaksin pardon petition to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary on Monday, their leaders announced Thursday.

Natthawut Saikua and Arisman Pongruangrong told a press conference that the eight representative would submit some of the copies of the petition to the office and the red-shirt people would carry the rest to the office in a elaborate procession.

The red-shirt people have gathered millions of signatures to petition His Majesty for a royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Arisman said 1,000 red-shirt people form process to carry 500 boxes of the copies of the petition. They will follow a line of 1,000 monks. At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

-- The Nation 13/08/09

It is my understanding that there will be in excess of 600 boxes. Each community group will carry a box of 10,000 petitions. The total of petitions now exceed six (6) million. Dividing that number by 10,000, puts the number of boxes and accompanying community groupings in excess of 600.

The spectacle will be a true reflection of pro-democracy forces in Thailand.

In the annals of pro-democracy struggles throughout history, It will be one of the most unique demonstrations of support for a Nation's return to Democratic governance ever.

Thailand should be proud!

Edited August 13, 2009 by Ferwert

[Insight]

/edit - misread "national" for "international" - doh!

Edited August 13, 2009 by Insight

[noahvail]

Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

BANGKOK: -- A procession of 1,000 will follow their 8...

red-shirt people would carry the rest to the office in a elaborate procession....

....They will follow a line of 1,000 monks. At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

-- The Nation 13/08/09

Pomp and Circumcision

Can't even count.

70+ flag bearers

1000 monks

+ 8 "Tetes Rouge'

+ 1000 "Rouge Merdes"

2,078 will be marching to Pretoria's

And what of the ONE Respected Person???

2,079 is the this an 'auspisious number'?

Who get the double flags?

And what color?

Consider the source: The Nation. They've never been very good on numbers. I wonder if there are supposed to be 76 national flags, one for each province. Then who will be holding more than one flag? To The Nation: 70 does not equal 76. Or 75.

500 boxes: 5,000,000 signatures / 500 boxes = 10,000 signatures per box. Lets say there's an estimated 25 signatures per page, and we won't allow the reverse of the page to be used. So, 10,000 signatures per box / 25 = 400 pages. A ream of paper such as you use in your printer is 500 sheets. So we're talking about a couple of pounds per box. Box?? Oh well... 500 reams would fit on one pallet, drive a forklift to the building, drop it down, done. But I guess this is high theatre.

Numbers: 2,078 in numerology becomes 2+0+7+8 = 17, 1+7 = 8, an auspicious number for Chinese. Add one more person, even if only in spirit and it becomes 9, very auspicious for the Thai. So either way, the One Who Won't Make An Appearance has his genetic bases covered.

Just my 2 satang.

[Ferwert]

Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

BANGKOK: -- A procession of 1,000 red-shirt people will follow their 8 representatives to submit 500 boxes of copies of the Thaksin pardon petition to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary on Monday, their leaders announced Thursday.

Natthawut Saikua and Arisman Pongruangrong told a press conference that the eight representative would submit some of the copies of the petition to the office and the red-shirt people would carry the rest to the office in a elaborate procession.

The red-shirt people have gathered millions of signatures to petition His Majesty for a royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Arisman said 1,000 red-shirt people form process to carry 500 boxes of the copies of the petition. They will follow a line of 1,000 monks. At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

-- The Nation 13/08/09

It is my understanding that there will be in excess of 600 boxes. Each community group will carry a box of 10,000 petitions. The total of petitions now exceed six (6) million. Dividing that number by 10,000, puts the number of boxes and accompanying community groupings in excess of 600.

The spectacle will be a true reflection of pro-democracy forces in Thailand.

In the annals of pro-democracy struggles throughout history, It will be one of the most unique demonstrations of support for a Nation's return to Democratic governance ever.

Thailand should be proud!

Edited August 13, 2009 by Ferwert

[RKASA]

At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

Propaganda. To give the impression to Thai people that the world is behind Thaksin, when actually the world thinks Thaksin is a behind. Another symptom of his severe Mandela complex ...

I think they mean Thai national flags.  Your not going to see people with other flags over Thai soil.  I would be shocked.  Even when we has US bases here there was no US flag over most of them.  A few had a special condition which allowed it flown under the Thai flag.

[animatic]

Over 1,000 Red-shirts To File Thaksin Pardon Petition Monday

BANGKOK: -- A procession of 1,000 red-shirt people will follow their 8 representatives to submit 500 boxes of copies of the Thaksin pardon petition to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary on Monday, their leaders announced Thursday.

Natthawut Saikua and Arisman Pongruangrong told a press conference that the eight representative would submit some of the copies of the petition to the office and the red-shirt people would carry the rest to the office in a elaborate procession.

The red-shirt people have gathered millions of signatures to petition His Majesty for a royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Arisman said 1,000 red-shirt people form process to carry 500 boxes of the copies of the petition. They will follow a line of 1,000 monks. At the beginning of the procession will be 70 other red-shirt people who will carry 75 national flags.

-- The Nation 13/08/09

It is my understanding that there will be in excess of 600 boxes. Each community group will carry a box of 10,000 petitions. The total of petitions now exceed six (6) million. Dividing that number by 10,000, puts the number of boxes and accompanying community groupings in excess of 600.

The spectacle will be a true reflection of pro-democracy forces in Thailand.

In the annals of pro-democracy struggles throughout history, It will be one of the most unique demonstrations of support for a Nation's return to Democratic governance ever.

Thailand should be proud!

Return from the dead, mai?

[Plus]

Each petition has three pages with one signature at the bottom of the third page.

10,000 petitions is 30,000 sheets of paper, or 66.6 stacks of regular A4 paper(450 sheets), and it would weigh 130kg, if they use 70 g/m2 paper. Two people carrying this box? Koo once said they'll have a hot red ass dancing in front of them for the surge of extra power, but I don't think even that is going to work for the whole distance.

There's also a page with only forms for five signatures on it but I don't think that's official - there must be some other text on a page - what people are signing for, not just five signatures alone.

Maybe they'll go with a two page version, without a coverpage, for the sake of convenience, but it might also not checkout legally, certainly wouldn't be very respectful.

In the end all this math can turn out completely wrong. This is just what has been mentioned in the press with their usual 70 people would carry 75 flags reports from press-conferences. I bet that's what the guy said and not Nation's mistake. I think the actual numbers will never be checked of verified. No one has seen these 5-6 million signatures, ever, it's all just words. Their storage place at D-station (fifth floor of Imperial Lad Prao) can't possibly hold 5 million peitions, which is over 60 ton in weight. But that's math again.

[Scott]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

[Jingthing]

I think they mean Thai national flags.

Never mind!

[Ferwert]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

Yes it will be Scott.

I'm sure the Government will trumpet the deployment of major police forces, in part to create the impressions that the pro-democracy Red Shirts could be combative.

Not sure if you read one of my previous postings dealing with the demographics of this pro-democracy movement. The Red Shirts are hugely a predominent female group, as were the pro-democracy protesters in Iran.

How do I know this?......The last very large RS rally I attended in Udon Thani, I realised the predominance of women. To test this theory as I was sitting in the middle of the crowd, I drew an imaginary line around a small section, and counted. There were 21 females and 3 males. I did this in three other locations within my line-of-vision, and discovered that the ratio was roughly the same.

I understand also, that Newin has marshalled another small militia force of blue shirts for a payment of 500 baht each. They are intended to harass this peaceful rally and huge procession to wherever they are delivering the petition. It isn't difficult to harass a bunch of middle-aged women. But they want to create the impression that there is popular resistance.

It will be interesting to read how the Englsih Language media will again underestimate RS numbers on Monday, as an overt way to try and diminish them. They always get off the hook for misrepresentation, by quoting the police, who also have a vested interest in under-estimating numbers.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Ferwert

[Jingthing]

The bunch of middle aged women fantasia is a lame attempt to try to make people forget about the red shirt Molotov cocktail throwing very male thugs during Black Songkran. What is pro democratic about supporting a man that when he was in power went on record as not being pro-democracy?

Edited August 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[baht&sold]

There's a high likelihood for a coup upcoming, or at least for an 'attempt' at a coup, to occur before November at least, likely much sooner.

Perhaps better expressed as another re-coup attempt- to recoup Mr Thaksin's frozen assets, free the banned 111 politicians, null vote-fraud, null convictions, null future court cases and ultimately reclaim power, all in the guise of 'returning democracy' (before Mr Thaksin's potential Nov frozen assets court verdict).

-The 'pardon' attempt is clearly not what it appears as it's not possible to receive a pardon unless the convicted party is required to spend at least some time behind bars and they or their immediate relatives only may then appeal for a pardon. All this was known from the outset. Thus, the pardon petition seems more cynically designed for a Mr Thaksin win/win/win:

a: By some miracle a pardon is granted / Mr Thaksin wins

b: A pardon is not granted / Thaksin supporters feel deeply dissapointed and more sympathy for Mr T / Mr Thaksin wins

c: The govt blocks the petition / Thaksin supporters feel deeply angered and more sympathy for Mr T / Mr Thaksin wins

The real motive then appears part of laying foundations for a larger goal. Base strategy appears designed to divide people even further, incite when optimum and then strike.

The first 'alleged' re-coup attempt at Songkran was a simple but high potential strategy: Incite riots in an attempt to spark a wider civil conflict, creating prime conditions for a re-coup. The alleged plan ultimately failed but it likely provided a good test-run to measure, also providing a critical head count of needed high-ranking pledged-loyalty.

The needed elements did not fall into place at Songkran or it would have been done then.

Now, along with an agitated General Chaiyasit Shinawatra, there are several other elements in play including current Puea Thai chief advisor/former Thaksin Army Chief Gen Chettha disgruntled over dangerous allegations regarding a certain assassination attempt.

Then there is Mr Thaksin's ex-brother in-law Police General Priewpan, extremely unpleased he wasn't made acting Police Chief (despite himself having rapidly risen through the ranks under Mr Thaksin's tenure).

Meanwhile, pivitol Defence Minister Prawit is said to be unhappy his National police chief brother is under pressure by PM Abhisit to 'take a vacation' (allegedly so afore-mentioned allegations can be investigated without interference- if such a thing is possible).

ALL pivotal loyalties become critical in the crucially needed high-ranking pledged-loyalty head-count to accomplish the task, testing old Military class-mates, Police colleagues and others loyalties. Once a strategic head-count is in favour, a larger strategy can be effected.

Laying groundwork of optimum conditions for divisive unrest must first be put in place, head-count must be in favour, timing must perfect, then the uprising and 'wetwork' can begin... The various 'love' factions within the red network have proven honed skills for the afore-mentioned wetwork. (Love Chiang Mai, Love Udon groups etc)

The 'simple' option is to avoid this is to dissolve the house and call elections. But this would leave the Govt vacant for min 3 months amidst very challenging economic times (mai pen rai say Puea Thai). The result would likely be Puea Thai winning by popularity combined with the usual hook and crook, likely resulting in new proxy PM Chalerm.

Mr Chalerm has stated his TOP priority as 'democratically' elected PM would be changing the constitution, freeing up banned politicians and exonerating Mr Thaksin (all to bolster democracy, apparently). This would of course bring the yellows back in even greater numbers and here we go all over again... (no thank you)

Despite the latest reports stating Mr Thaksin has signed deals for gold and diamond mines in Africa, and had cooperated with Uganda to issue funds via a lottery (link) , it appears he's set on winning back the lottery he controlled but lost in 2006, and at any cost...

BTW, not being a fan of red yellow blue or especially of coups, would simply prefer to see the current Govt 'permitted' to try and sort the economy and call elections by year-end in a more stable environment, without any unilateral constitution changes to appease convicted or banned politicians (including rubber saps suspects;)

Unfortunately/predictably it looks like a few more hurdles are likely to come, possibly a rather large one... certainly hope not but the signs are all there.

Chok dee all, sure hope 'Thailand' wins, as unlikely as it may appear with increasingly desperate politicians and influence manipulating the strings from near and mostly afar...

Edited August 13, 2009 by baht&sold

[kuff]

WINWINWIN is pretty good strategy, isn't it?

Not sure if you read one of my previous postings dealing with the demographics of this pro-democracy movement. The Red Shirts are hugely a predominent female group, as were the pro-democracy protesters in Iran.

Yes Ferwert the struggle in Thailand is just like the struggle in Iran, isn't it?

[tominbkk]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

I'm sure the Government will trumpet the deployment of major police forces, in part to create the impressions that the pro-democracy Red Shirts could be combative.

Oh yeah, we all know how peaceful the red shits are - crashing buses, burning buildings, shooting innocent people at their own home, bashing gay people on a peaceful parade. A real bunch of peace-lovers they are!!!!! 5555

[basjke]

The total of petitions now exceed six (6) million.

That mean about 10% of the population has signed the petition yet nobody has noticed a request to sign in the past weeks or knows how the petitions look like.

[animatic]

Hugely predominant... uh ok, you say so.

Predominantly huge, except where not.

Get thee to a Thesaurus Rex.

Stacking the 1000 walkers with 800 grannies, is taking a page from Sondhi's play book.

I hope there will be little pink shit water boys keeping the grannies from dehydrating

carrying what 130kl per pair of draft grannies... Who would be so cruel to the old birds.

I suspect peacefulness would be in the cards when les Rouge Merdes approach HRM.

This fall of course, as the 2.2 bill go on the block, after police and army reshuffles,

is another story. An early shot across the bows is this weeks Police office shuffling.

And the Army reshuffle will not be just typical interleaving of seniorities,

no matter the whining involved. These are the things that set off the coup last time...

Thaksin himself was stacking the deck till his exit.

It is totally logical and quite understandable that a thorough re-stacking

is in the works in the next 2 months. Egos and incomes will suffer,

and allegiances will shift as the winds blow them.

Too much is at stake to allow Thaksin to continue his former plan

of asserting total domination over the whole shooting match.

[Ferwert]

WINWINWIN is pretty good strategy, isn't it?

Not sure if you read one of my previous postings dealing with the demographics of this pro-democracy movement. The Red Shirts are hugely a predominent female group, as were the pro-democracy protesters in Iran.

Yes Ferwert the struggle in Thailand is just like the struggle in Iran, isn't it?

Yes it is.

Many, many similarities.

A thoughtful approach knowledgable of both situations, will glean more direct comparators than one could ever imagine.

So the answer to your question is a resounding 'Yes'

[Ferwert]

A couple comments on that lengthy, and obviously well-thought out posting #19 by Baht & sold:

"Simple option.......dissolve house......call elections.....would leave Govt. vacant for three months"

Not is that the simple option, it is the only option. The idea of leaving Govt. vacant is a 'red herring', espoused by those who want to avoid elections

for their own purposes. Everyone knows that the Govt. bureaucracy in Thailand is most capable of maintaining a highly functioning Govt. In fact,

Abhisit's critics will probably claim they are running Govt. anyway. Employing the best option of obtaining a popularly elected Govt. should put many

issues to rest.

"BTW, not being fan of red or yellow.........."

This is often the position of PAD/old paternalistic politics sympathisers. A pox on all their houses to such an extent, that the groundwork can be

laid for their undemocratic, paternalistic appointive option.

"This would of course bring back the yellows....."

Yes, I am sure anti-democratic forces would not be happy with a return to Democratic, electoral politics. But as opposed to the pro-democracy red Shirts being a

grassroots people's movement, the anti-democratic PAD are controlled by elitist elements, and hence can be activated at will, or not. Until someone, somewhere

declares that Thailand is an electoral democracy, these anti-democratic forces will always threaten. What is Thailand: an electoral Democracy or not? That is the

larger question. Until someone declares the end of electoral democracy, it remains in place, bringing us back to the extreme need for elections.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Ferwert

[TAWP]

WINWINWIN is pretty good strategy, isn't it?

Not sure if you read one of my previous postings dealing with the demographics of this pro-democracy movement. The Red Shirts are hugely a predominent female group, as were the pro-democracy protesters in Iran.

Yes Ferwert the struggle in Thailand is just like the struggle in Iran, isn't it?

Yes it is.

Many, many similarities.

A thoughtful approach knowledgable of both situations, will glean more direct comparators than one could ever imagine.

So the answer to your question is a resounding 'Yes'

As a person with several friends in Iran that took part of the demonstrations with risks for their lives (in addition to having relatives killed in the revolution of -79) I find your even mere thought of equating the protests/demonstrations/campaigns despicable.

[Ricardo]

"BTW, not being fan of red or yellow.........."

This is often the position of PAD/old paternalistic politics sympathisers. A pox on all their houses to such an extent, that the groundwork can be laid for their undemocratic, paternalistic appointive option.

Surely some posters who claim "not being fan of red or yellow" are simply stating the truth, that they don't view themselves as being supporters of either extreme, of this damaging split in the country ?

"This would of course bring back the yellows....."

Yes, I am sure anti-democratic forces would not be happy with a return to Democratic, electoral politics. But as opposed to the pro-democracy red Shirts being a

grassroots people's movement, the anti-democratic PAD are controlled by elitist elements, and hence can be activated at will, or not.

Would it disturb you to learn, many PAD-supporters still view themselves as being grass-roots pro-democracy, just as much as you view the Red-Shirts to be ? Personally I suspect that there are many democrats, in both groups, the main difference simply being how they view Thaksin & his intentions.

And wasn't the return to normal electoral politics welcomed equally by the Democrats & PAD, as well as the PPP and minor-parties, when the junta-appointed government returned power to the electorate ?

Until someone, somewhere

declares that Thailand is an electoral democracy, these anti-democratic forces will always threaten. What is Thailand: an electoral Democracy or not? That is the

larger question. Until someone declares the end of electoral democracy, it remains in place, bringing us back to the extreme need for elections.

I would refer you to the comments of the former-PM, who openly declared that "Democracy is not my aim", and later organised an election which the E.C. annulled for vote-rigging. He openly spoke of the end of democracy, and intending his party to remain in-power for 20 years, his later actions then matched his words.

So why would you now support him ? Oh yes ... he now claims to espouse democracy after all, not that he ever didn't, and you believe him.

But many other people don't. So must they all be "paternalistic politics sympathisers" ? Or are there perhaps more possibilities than you want to conceed ?

My comments above in red.

[animatic]

Thaksin and his intentions.

This IS the crux of the whole shooting match.

Historically they have proved good intentions a very small part of the time,

and ill-intentioned the preponderance of the time. So what does he look to get

out of this considering it is a foregone conclusion an pardon is not happening?

All the pageantry and nationalism doesn't suddenly make this a major nation changing event,

it DOES set the stage for more divisiveness and chaos in the streets.

When is the NEXT attempt at causing an SoE?

Sept. Oct. Nov? He has little other recourse.

When is the NEXT heartfelt rampage in the streets

because something didn't go Thaksin's way, as planned,

so it gives psycho-ammo to enrage his street army.

Edited August 14, 2009 by animatic

[noahvail]

I hope it's a peaceful event.

This is only speculation on my part, but I believe it will be peaceful, right through the time the petitions are delivered.

After that, the relief of having finished that part of their task, coupled with a desire/need to express that, will probably lead to partying. And party-goers can fall prey to eloquent firebrand speakers, and start to become a mob. To what extent that may happen I have no idea - it's merely a speculative scenario. Should it happen, with a repeat of the Songkhran festivities, it will be a difficult time for all.

Do not take this as red-bashing. My speculations are only based on personal observations over many years, and from reading history. It can happen with any large group of people, and I've seen the number of 100,000 bandied about here.

I fervently hope that it will be entirely peaceful.

[Ferwert]

WINWINWIN is pretty good strategy, isn't it?

Not sure if you read one of my previous postings dealing with the demographics of this pro-democracy movement. The Red Shirts are hugely a predominent female group, as were the pro-democracy protesters in Iran.

Yes Ferwert the struggle in Thailand is just like the struggle in Iran, isn't it?

Yes it is.

Many, many similarities.

A thoughtful approach knowledgable of both situations, will glean more direct comparators than one could ever imagine.

So the answer to your question is a resounding 'Yes'

As a person with several friends in Iran that took part of the demonstrations with risks for their lives (in addition to having relatives killed in the revolution of -79) I find your even mere thought of equating the protests/demonstrations/campaigns despicable.

Live with it Tawp.

I stand strongly behind this opinion, and in a totally unencumbered media discussion forum, I would be fully capable of defending the position.

I am very comfortable with my analysis and conclusions.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Ferwert