Complaining, Complaining, Complaining!

[donshows]

It always amazes me how much farangs complain about how Thailand is not like “home.” They don’t speak English here! How can they eat that food? Don’t they know how to do things the right way? What’s wrong with these people?

Complaining, complaining, complaining! OH MY GOD! If Thailand is so bad....then go back HOME!! Wherever that may be and SHUT UP!

There’s nothing wrong here except the farangs who complain about Thailand.

[krabbyken]

It always amazes me how much farangs complain about how Thailand is not like "home." They don't speak English here! How can they eat that food? Don't they know how to do things the right way? What's wrong with these people?

Complaining, complaining, complaining! OH MY GOD! If Thailand is so bad....then go back HOME!! Wherever that may be and SHUT UP!

There's nothing wrong here except the farangs who complain about Thailand.

THANK YOU! Could not agree with you more.......

[PeaceBlondie]

Gay farangs don't complain as much as they might in Keokuk Iowa, Aberdeen Scotland, or Hobart Tasmania. Shall we move this general complaint about complainers to General Forum?

Added: I see that donshows is a regular poster here. I really find that gay farang consider Thailand to be far better than back home.

[kek]

If you think the complainers are bad here ... take a look at baht-stop.com.

[Ijustwannateach]

Being here gives many people more options than they might have had (or perceived themselves to have had) in their home countries. Certainly the lack of homophobia makes flirting a more frequent and less risky activity. However, when the novelty has subsided, I am afraid that many who stay here for the long haul try to perceive the place as one where 'everything will be the same as back home, except....." - fill in the blank with many things. As long as one stays in this state of cultural denial, he/she will find much to complain about. Unfortunately!

[arco27]

not to many complaints from me, once I got my real friend here that don't consider farang=ATM and I learned to ignore the once that do, I am happy here. Still the worst for me is older farang and boy/girl, but that is a complaint about farangs, they should stop at every mirror they see and look at themselves with their toy.

[flightcrew1]

Gay farangs don't complain as much as they might in Keokuk Iowa, Aberdeen Scotland, or Hobart Tasmania. Shall we move this general complaint about complainers to General Forum?

Added: I see that donshows is a regular poster here. I really find that gay farang consider Thailand to be far better than back home.

agreed and agreed!

[Jingthing]

arco27

I am happy here. Still the worst for me is older farang and boy/girl, but that is a complaint about farangs, they should stop at every mirror they see and look at themselves with their toy.

OMG, that's the kind of judgmental crapola I left the west to get away from. Assuming we are talking legal ages here, who cares about mirrors if it is what people want? Tip, some of us can't even begin to get a woodie for people our age. Older males of all kinds quite commonly desire younger partners IF they can get them, and in Thailand we can get them. So we should just give up sex for life because it offends your delicate sense of appropriate aesthetics? That is the typical line from bourgeois western gays, over 30 or 40, stay home with the porn and don't show up with your wrinkles or 40 inch pants spoiling the view at our venues.

kek

If you think the complainers are bad here ... take a look at baht-stop.com

Agreed, but they should really rename that site to zionistsareevil.com, that joint is a hotbed of gay antisemitism.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Jingthing

[catmac]

arco27

I am happy here. Still the worst for me is older farang and boy/girl, but that is a complaint about farangs, they should stop at every mirror they see and look at themselves with their toy.

OMG, that's the kind of judgmental crapola I left the west to get away from. Assuming we are talking legal ages here, who cares about mirrors if it is what people want? Tip, some of us can't even begin to get a woodie for people our age. Older males of all kinds quite commonly desire younger partners IF they can get them, and in Thailand we can get them. So we should just give up sex for life because it offends your delicate sense of appropriate aesthetics? That is the typical line from bourgeois western gays, over 30 or 40, stay home with the porn and don't show up with your wrinkles or 40 inch pants spoiling the view at our venues.

Well said, Jingthing!

Nothing makes me angrier than gays who turn on their fellow gays because their choice of partner doesn't conform to their Western crap ethics. In most Asian countries, age is respected as a virtue, not as some kind of disease. No young Thai (of either sex) would loose "face" by having a loving, caring older farang partner. Quite the opposite, you would be surprised at how many younger Thais are actually really turned on by us older farang males - and I'm not talking about those simply selling sex, but those who are looking for a long-term relationship.

I'm not a great mirror gazer, but we do have photos that were taken taken at each of our birthdays for the past 6 years that fill me with pride and joy whenever we look at them. By the way, we usually celebrate with a great big family party at our local restaurant and I would say that if the Thais find nothing in the slightest bit odd about our relationship, maybe your complaint is with yourself.

[MarkBKK]

It always amazes me how much farangs complain about how Thailand is not like “home.” They don’t speak English here! How can they eat that food? Don’t they know how to do things the right way? What’s wrong with these people?

Complaining, complaining, complaining! OH MY GOD! If Thailand is so bad....then go back HOME!! Wherever that may be and SHUT UP!

There’s nothing wrong here except the farangs who complain about Thailand.

Unless they're complaining about the lizard in the bleedin' bidet, which is fair enough, you silly bunt.

''Torremolinos , Torremolinos''

(and I'm certailnly not from scummer town, thank you).

[onni4me]

Still the worst for me is older farang and boy/girl, but that is a complaint about farangs, they should stop at every mirror they see and look at themselves with their toy.

My old eyes are probably wrong looking at your picture attached to your nick...er...could you give idea what kind of age difference is acceptable and otherwise?

NOT that I am complaining but gays or people taking judgmental or moral attitudes make me wanna puke and stop reading and posting on this forum. Unpukingfortunately, I feel like puking a lot...

[Rionoir]

To get back on topic...

When I went to Laos to change to Ed Visa, I couldn't believe how 80% of the guys on the trip did nothing but complain about how much they hate Thailand... at least that's how it seemed... and here they were getting a new visa. LoL Some of them even lived in a gated farang community. Ummm...

[onni4me]

80% of the guys on the trip did nothing but complain about how much they hate Thailand....

Maybe this is more of a way to talk about your life than real opinion? Perhaps it would be equally obnoxious to listen someone brag about their good high-so living..?

But I agree...there are so many people on various media complaining and when meeting people they seem to have a barrel of bad feeling to pour allover you. Be aware when engaging in a conversation!

I sometimes take time off from all English or other language sites and people and just enjoy my time with my Thai family. It is not high-so life and some might even consider it boring but looking the young ones as well as the old Thais around me - I feel happy and content. No need to know of all the bad sides of life.

Always look on the bright side...

[phetaroi]

NOT that I am complaining but gays or people taking judgmental or moral attitudes make me wanna puke and stop reading and posting on this forum. Unpukingfortunately, I feel like puking a lot...

Please reread your sentence. Gays or people taking moral attitudes is bad? Having morals is a bad thing?

[kek]

NOT that I am complaining but gays or people taking judgmental or moral attitudes make me wanna puke and stop reading and posting on this forum. Unpukingfortunately, I feel like puking a lot...

Please reread your sentence. Gays or people taking moral attitudes is bad? Having morals is a bad thing?

Gays or people ??? Gays or people ???

So you are suggesting that Gays are not people?

What are we then? Zebras? Kettles? Broccoli?

[MarkBKK]

NOT that I am complaining but gays or people taking judgmental or moral attitudes make me wanna puke and stop reading and posting on this forum. Unpukingfortunately, I feel like puking a lot...

Please reread your sentence. Gays or people taking moral attitudes is bad? Having morals is a bad thing?

Gays or people ??? Gays or people ???

So you are suggesting that Gays are not people?

What are we then? Zebras? Kettles? Broccoli?

Hi Kek. I'd have to go for C, broccoli. (Yes, I know it's a trick question and you thought I was going to say ''B, kettles'').

Mmmmm ... I love broccoli. Not like gay people or zebras (I always used to leave them on the side of my plate, usually hidden under some mashed potato.)

Now it's my turn!

So, what do you think this thread is? Zebras? Dull? Stupid?

[arco27]

First of all even though I am white I grew up here and have very few "western" morals and I know that Thais respect their elders. What I object to is the attitude of westerners that come here and treat Thai youth as their personal smorgasbord just because they have the money to do so. If at 60 you find love with a 20 year old, good luck to you, but believe me, such cases are very rare. Time and again I meet older farangs that end up penny less and heart broken and have to be repatriated by their embassies. My b/f is 12 years younger then me, but our relationship has never been based on monetary values, but on mutual respect.

[Ijustwannateach]

If you're constantly meet older foreigners that have to be repatriated penniless, I'd say you're keeping quite bad company.

[Jingthing]

Time and again I meet older farangs that end up penny less and heart broken and have to be repatriated by their embassies.

My b/f is 12 years younger then me, but our relationship has never been based on monetary values, but on mutual respect

I find that hard to believe. Sounds like a pipe fantasy fueled by stereotypes. Online, we can say anything ...

12 years difference is acceptable but 30 years isn't. I get it now. What I do is respectable, what you do isn't.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[siam2007]

Time and again I meet older farangs that end up penny less and heart broken and have to be repatriated by their embassies.

My b/f is 12 years younger then me, but our relationship has never been based on monetary values, but on mutual respect

I find that hard to believe. Sounds like a pipe fantasy fueled by stereotypes. Online, we can say anything ...

12 years difference is acceptable but 30 years isn't. I get it now. What I do is respectable, what you do isn't.

from his intolerant and discriminating "what-I-do-is-right-what-you-do-is-wrong" attitude, it rather seems Khun ARCO has spent most of his life in the Western hemisphere, where such things are indeed common.

thanks god, in Thailand (as well as other parts of Asia) it is usually NOT.....

[phayao]

We all have the right to complain with our own reasons.

Some expats here, mainly brits, would like to live in this country with all the advantages of their own homeland plus all the advantages they enjoy here, but without its disadvantages, this is not possible here or in the UK.

This is a charming country but also a different one.

It is good for everyone to express our disagreement about the many things that can be improved; thais and expats, gays and straights, younger and older are entitled to complain, but at the end of the day we are fairly happy living here and we are grateful to do so.

[onni4me]

It seems that we need to go to explain everything in greatest detail here...

Gays AND (other) people having attitudes, YES! even SOME gays have very strange attitudes judging others and at the same time they are demanding rights and understanding to themselves. As one long time member of Finnish gay rights organisation SETA said, some gays want people to tolerate them and at the same time they are one of the most untolerant people running around COMPLAINING!

And ones more...having morals (personal, I hope?) is DIFFERENT from having moral attitudes = judging others from your own point of view, right?

And what comes to being Zebras? Kettles? Broccoli? I suggest that GAY PEOPLE are the ones most often making definitions and putting people in small boxes without any regard for their other qualities than looking just one aspect in a human being.

Since I am one of those zebra-kettle-broccolis, I think reading my messages from a very narrow angle, is somewhat ridiculous. I could COMPLAIN about that!!!

[onni4me]

If at 60 you find love with a 20 year old, good luck to you, but believe me, such cases are very rare.

Yes, I believe those are rare cases but I happen to know people that live happily under such circumstances. So? Why should I or you make any judgment about 'people like that'?

Each their own is my standing. If you twist that age difference around into the straight relationships...er...how many guys in their 60s have girlfriend or wife 40 years younger? I could imagine it being much more % than in gay relationships. Maybe just my perception...

[Ijustwannateach]

I think it's all about attention-seeking behaviour (the complaining). A lot of people here don't have a big social group (in terms of people they can speak to in their own idiom) so they vent when they get the chance, online or otherwise. Or they complain for the reason I wrote above- lack of acceptance that this *is* a different place, not back home, etc.

I don't know how the whole age-difference thing cropped up here... I think ideally one should aim for someone you can have a real relationship with, if a relationship is the goal. I'm not one to say that relationships between persons of whatever age cannot be real, but I do think a greater age difference makes them harder. Of course, if only sex and companionship are the goals, the age difference is not such a big deal.

[paulfromphuket]

It always amazes me how much farangs complain about how Thailand is not like “home.” They don’t speak English here! How can they eat that food? Don’t they know how to do things the right way? What’s wrong with these people?

Complaining, complaining, complaining! OH MY GOD! If Thailand is so bad....then go back HOME!! Wherever that may be and SHUT UP!

There’s nothing wrong here except the farangs who complain about Thailand.

I am sorry but I just can't see why this was posted in the gay subforum.

Unless he meant bitching, bitching, bitching!

[onni4me]

I'm not one to say that relationships between persons of whatever age cannot be real, but I do think a greater age difference makes them harder. Of course, if only sex and companionship are the goals, the age difference is not such a big deal.

Hmm...I could challenge that by asking why you think experience and age would make it more difficult to have a younger partner? One might think the opposite to be true.

Are you possibly talking about love? That too, comes in all possible forms and variations.

In my case, I was looking someone no more than 10 years younger. One might say that there is a tendency to find younger partner rather than older. But that, of course, is just a matter of taste. My bf is 7 years younger...er...but being polite as Thais are, they compliment me saying that I am the one looking younger. I don't complain about that...

I do agree that complaining sometimes works as strenghtening friendships or even as subject matters in casual encounters. Maybe it is a way to get to know someone. You tell me what kind of complaints you have and I will tell you what kind of a person you are...

[phetaroi]

NOT that I am complaining but gays or people taking judgmental or moral attitudes make me wanna puke and stop reading and posting on this forum. Unpukingfortunately, I feel like puking a lot...

Please reread your sentence. Gays or people taking moral attitudes is bad? Having morals is a bad thing?

Gays or people ??? Gays or people ???

So you are suggesting that Gays are not people?

What are we then? Zebras? Kettles? Broccoli?

1. Gays or people in general. And by the way, it was not me who first said "gays or people".

2. Broccoli? No, I believe we are usually referred to as a fruit.

Of course, interesting that you did not respond to the substance of the post.

[phetaroi]

First of all even though I am white I grew up here and have very few "western" morals and I know that Thais respect their elders. What I object to is the attitude of westerners that come here and treat Thai youth as their personal smorgasbord just because they have the money to do so. If at 60 you find love with a 20 year old, good luck to you, but believe me, such cases are very rare. Time and again I meet older farangs that end up penny less and heart broken and have to be repatriated by their embassies. My b/f is 12 years younger then me, but our relationship has never been based on monetary values, but on mutual respect.

Very good post, particularly as a spring board for further discussion.

I am an older white westerner living here (retirement visa)...who has no desire to meet young guys. I have been in a committed relationship with a Thai for over 15 years now...first long distance, now living together. I guess we are rather boring...just lead a normal life. I could describe our relationship just as you describe yours!

I am rather appalled by those white westerners who "use" Thai guys (whether young or not) as their own smorgasbord (as you put it...and that is a good way to put it). On the other hand, I'm just as appalled by those Thai guys who "use" Westerners in a relationship for money or so they can live more comfortably...however you want to phrase it. It's a rather symbiotic relationship, either way.

[pauleddy]

We seem to be going off-topic and getting into the farang-Thai agegap/sex/boyfriend/mutual exploitation thing. That's a very old theme, and everyone has experiences or comments.

In general, people have the right to complain--and they will, because it is a feature of human nature. Some people complain more than others, and some would complain in paradise (if it existed). It is up to me whether I listen, and whether the complaints are justified or constructive. Can I learn something or benefit by listening?

Thailand is not paradise. Actually, there is quite a lot wrong with it, in terms of inefficiency, bureaucracy, the exploitation of Thai and Farang by Thai, the dreadful unstable politics, the shallowness of a presentation culture where Armani is sometimes more important than decency, the terrible education system, the corruption (just read that millions have been stolen from the "rural help fund" for the poor, by officials), and I haven't even started on the royalty stuff and the monk stuff, the board doesn't allow that. I have heard Thailand called the "demented Disneyland", which made me chuckle because there is a ring of truth there.

The worse thing is the smug self-delusion which is the result of many things, and is perpetuated by the Thais themselves. Yesterday, a taxi-driver asked me "you love Thailand so much, yes?"...a statement, not really a question. He actually believed that I lived in virtual paradise for farangs and that I should be humbled/grateful/generous with a tip/fulsome in my praise. I was tempted to say "I don't really like it as much as you would like to believe", but my limited Thai let me down (typical farang).

Somewhere down the line, this huge reality gap opened up and grew. We are supposed to love this place and not criticise it. This conforms with Thai expectations and self-delusion. If we and they can just drink enough cheap beer or rum from 7-11, we can all just carry on perpetuating the inward-looking status quo while the country doesn't strive to improve its lot, feed its poor and educate its kids well.

"Have you ever been down to love city?

Where they rip you off with a smile, and it don't take a gun"

(--Van Morrison. The Great Deception, 1973)

eddy

[arco27]

First of all even though I am white I grew up here and have very few "western" morals and I know that Thais respect their elders. What I object to is the attitude of westerners that come here and treat Thai youth as their personal smorgasbord just because they have the money to do so. If at 60 you find love with a 20 year old, good luck to you, but believe me, such cases are very rare. Time and again I meet older farangs that end up penny less and heart broken and have to be repatriated by their embassies. My b/f is 12 years younger then me, but our relationship has never been based on monetary values, but on mutual respect.

Very good post, particularly as a spring board for further discussion.

I am an older white westerner living here (retirement visa)...who has no desire to meet young guys. I have been in a committed relationship with a Thai for over 15 years now...first long distance, now living together. I guess we are rather boring...just lead a normal life. I could describe our relationship just as you describe yours!

I am rather appalled by those white westerners who "use" Thai guys (whether young or not) as their own smorgasbord (as you put it...and that is a good way to put it). On the other hand, I'm just as appalled by those Thai guys who "use" Westerners in a relationship for money or so they can live more comfortably...however you want to phrase it. It's a rather symbiotic relationship, either way.

First I have been here longer then most of you, since I was 3 years old, so maybe my English is not perfect enough for making my self understood perfectly even though I live part of the year in Australia. All I ever objected to is the way guys with big wallets use young Thai kids for their sexual gratification. I also realize that Thais are using farangs as meal tickets, but the extra Baths are hard to resist. I don't give a hoot if you are 120 and your friend is 20 as long as it is a genuine relationship, exploitation is what I object to. As for repatriation of penniless farangs, it happens far more then you think, mostly with straight guys who marry their big holiday love and it also happens with some gay guys. I know this because until recently I worked at an embassy of a European country. Sorry if I caused controversy, this is my last comment on the subject and you can all stop bitching.