Seeking Advise From An Informed Business Man

[curtiscoetzee]

So my topic isn't really that complicated actually. Im a fresh economics-pre law grade looking for some direction and some solid advise to make some life changing decisions. I know its just advise but any really reliable info would tremendous!

So i guess I should begin with giving some background on myself. I just recently spent a total of 6 months in various regions of thailand working for an NGO and absolutely fell in love with the culture of thailand. While spending the last 3 months in bangkok i became extremely interested in pursuing a career in thailand or somewhere in a major city in southeast asia, I am certain that there is definitely place in the market for a young well educated foreign person and was wide eyed at all of the booming business that asia had to offer ( it seems that the business is booming and i want in).

I have just completed my undergraduate degree in economics and am contemplating some post graduate studies that will properly equip me for doing business in bangkok. I was contemplating attending law school being that i have just got done taking my Lsat and have been accepted into a few highly ranked schools. The problem is that im not really sure how valuable having a U.S. law degree is in thailand or for that matter in SE Asia. I have been contemplating rather studying in another field and getting an MBA in some other field thinking that a masters translates internationally a little better than a U.S law degree. I would like to study in a field that would allow me to get a high paying job in bangkok or any major city in SE Asia.

So......

1) if you know of any U.S lawyers that are working in bangkok, are they doing well and what kind of companies are they working for.( by well im supposing they are making at least 120k+ a month)

2) if your a professional in a field closely related to economics or finance and know of business professions that are highly sought after and fiscally rewarding what kind of jobs are they and what would my next step in education be to make me a competitive candidate for the position?( MBA ....... doctorate in Economics ... stuff like that)

3) What are some of the highest paying professions in bangkok? just for curiosity sake. I mean in the sates everyone knows what you study to become wealthy: ie: dentistry, lawyer...... but i have no idea how the break down goes in thailand

Again thank you so much for any advise that you can give. trust me non of it will fall on idle hands, im just a young guy looking for advise in the South Eastern Asia business market.

Thanks

Edited August 31, 2009 by curtiscoetzee

[Furbie]

I am going to mainly limit myself to Thailand, though some of the below will apply to Asia in general.

There are many US lawyers working in Bangkok. As far as salary, they run a very wide range. The lowest I know of was on 80,000 THB per month, and it has gone up from there – some do as well as high priced lawyers in the US. I have met a number of young American lawyers as well, so job possibilities do exist. Most of the foreign lawyers I have met have been involved in transactional law, though I have met some others. Remember, you can't really practice law as a foreigner in Thailand, you are a legal consultant.

I have long believed that both an MBA and a law degree are very practical in terms of opening your job opportunities in Asia – combine the two with a joint program and its even better. However, you do need some luck in finding these opportunities in Thailand. Starting pay in Thailand may also be much lower than you are willing to consider. I know of a few people who have managed to land entry level professional jobs in Thailand and they earn slightly more than teachers – though they have much greater future income generating potential. In my experience, people who are more highly specialized tend to do better in Thailand, assuming what they do is in demand. For example, if you do financial risk analysis you can make a great deal of money, statistics background and an MBA are helpful here. Currently, people in public health are in very high demand in the region and they can command good salaries, you would need a Masters in Public Health to enter the field.

The highest paying profession in Bangkok, in general is probably the oil and gas industry – looking at the top guys in Chevron, etc. and they make a great deal of money. Top financial companies used to do very well, but bonuses are going to be small this year. In terms of moving yourself to Thailand to find a job, that is a tougher question. I have seen people in IT do well, as well as people who are very entrepreneurial do very well. There are also a number of consulting companies where the expats do well, and independent consultants can do well if you know how to network – people doing work on a contract basis for ADB, UN, World Bank, etc. This is what I have witnessed, and is limited to legitimate enterprises.

I have heard many, many people gripe about not being able to find work in Thailand. In general, I have found the people who gripe tend to be unqualified for what is in demand, lack good experience, lack a decent education or really don't know how to look for a job. Others may beg to differ, but I have many friends who landed on these shores with no job (myself included) and managed to do well. However, we all do live with a fear of losing our job, as it is not always easy to find a new one right away (bye bye visa), especially when you start making a western sized salary.

[emsfeld]

In my experience, people who are more highly specialized tend to do better in Thailand, assuming what they do is in demand. For example, if you do financial risk analysis you can make a great deal of money, statistics background and an MBA are helpful here.

Would you care to elaborate on this point? Your example applies to my academic/professional background (stats and fin maths) and I have seen hardly any positions in that type of career (talking about TH, NOT HK or Sing). I do not want to migrate to TH yet, but was planning in about 3-5 yrs time or sooner if a good position comes up. Right now it seems that (judging from job sites), there are no such roles on offer in BKK. Would you suggest more "unconventional" (eg cold calling potential employers) for finding positions?

Cheers,

emsfeld

[Furbie]

Emsfeld,

I am not as up on job trends as I used to be when I was in HR, and even then I did not focus on careers with the background you mentioned. So I am not sure about your field.

My point was that there are some positions in Thailand where there is high demand – two are risk management and public health. Some companies also have 100s of expat engineers on staff, so I would imagine there is a decent call for them. I am sure there are other examples.

In general, I know few Westerners who have gotten jobs through web boards and classifieds, but it has happened. Most, including me, learned of their jobs through good old fashioned networking. Many people here are a bit weary of the reason someone wants to move to Thailand, so meeting people in professional settings can help alleviate some of that concern - people generally get more comfortable with you as they see you over time and can develop a more informed opinion. That being said, leave no stone unturned in a job search. We get about 3-4 unsolicited foreign CVs a week, maybe 1 a year looks interesting - you could be that 1 for someone.

[curtiscoetzee]

Firstly i really appreciate your advise and thank you for answering exactly towards what i was inquiring about. Thank you very much!

"There are many US lawyers working in Bangkok. As far as salary, they run a very wide range. The lowest I know of was on 80,000 THB per month, and it has gone up from there – some do as well as high priced lawyers in the US. I have met a number of young American lawyers as well, so job possibilities do exist. Most of the foreign lawyers I have met have been involved in transactional law, though I have met some others. Remember, you can't really practice law as a foreigner in Thailand, you are a legal consultant."

You mentioned above that you know of many US lawyers working in bangkok as consultants in transaction law, this makes sense and i had heard the same thing about US lawyers only being capable of working as legal consultants. Sorry to bother you a little more but it seems that you are very familiar with what is going on out there so i just cant help my self from inquiring more info from you.

- You mentioned that these US consultants work for organizations in bangkok but my question is this: Did many of these US attorneys start working for these multinational organizations or international firms on the west coast in the States and eventually get transferred to SE Asia or did a majority of them attain their education in the states and then begin their search for a job at large organizations located in Thailand.

The reason im asking really detailed questions is the more i know the easier it will be to get geared in the right direction from the start. My goal is to be working in bangkok not immediately but to lay a foundation to be out there in about 5-6 years.

- Also you mentioned the correct way to go about attaining a job. In the states im extremely familiar with the correct way to seek out high ranking organizations and so on..... but im a little perplexed as to the proper procedure that would be implemented in Thailand. Would you just browse for organizations that are large and do business with the US and then contact their human resources department or would searching for a job in thailand be predominately word of mouth? ( i already know its got to do with who you know but what if you know very few people in thailand)

Thank you again any comments would be really helpful

Edited August 31, 2009 by curtiscoetzee

[emsfeld]

Emsfeld,

I am not as up on job trends as I used to be when I was in HR, and even then I did not focus on careers with the background you mentioned. So I am not sure about your field.

My point was that there are some positions in Thailand where there is high demand – two are risk management and public health. Some companies also have 100s of expat engineers on staff, so I would imagine there is a decent call for them. I am sure there are other examples.

In general, I know few Westerners who have gotten jobs through web boards and classifieds, but it has happened. Most, including me, learned of their jobs through good old fashioned networking. Many people here are a bit weary of the reason someone wants to move to Thailand, so meeting people in professional settings can help alleviate some of that concern - people generally get more comfortable with you as they see you over time and can develop a more informed opinion. That being said, leave no stone unturned in a job search. We get about 3-4 unsolicited foreign CVs a week, maybe 1 a year looks interesting - you could be that 1 for someone.

Thanks for the info from my end as well. I understand that potential employers are weary about hiring people who want to move to Thailand - this factor shouldnt be a problem or difficult to explain (had lived in Thailand from 2001 - 2003 going to uni and currently have vested financial interests there as well).

An understanding of risk management requires an understanding of pricing and, particularly, knowledge as to how to "translate" empirical observations into mathematical formulas - you cant manage risk if there is no means to measure or benchmark against. As history has shown - lots of so called risk managers (emphasis on managers) don't exactly understand what they are doing as they don't understand the shortcomings of the models they are dealing with (dont mean to generalise but there are lots of those types out there).

I already reckoned that it's down to networking - job sites simply dont reflect the demand in risk management positions you are describing, but maybe I am not looking extensively or hard enough (also because working in TH is simply not a top priority at the moment, but is definitely an interesting option for the future).

Anyway, very interesting indeed to hear an opinion from a more corporate angle.

Cheers

emsfeld

[Furbie]

Firstly i really appreciate your advise and thank you for answering exactly towards what i was inquiring about. Thank you very much!

"There are many US lawyers working in Bangkok. As far as salary, they run a very wide range. The lowest I know of was on 80,000 THB per month, and it has gone up from there – some do as well as high priced lawyers in the US. I have met a number of young American lawyers as well, so job possibilities do exist. Most of the foreign lawyers I have met have been involved in transactional law, though I have met some others. Remember, you can't really practice law as a foreigner in Thailand, you are a legal consultant."

You mentioned above that you know of many US lawyers working in bangkok as consultants in transaction law, this makes sense and i had heard the same thing about US lawyers only being capable of working as legal consultants. Sorry to bother you a little more but it seems that you are very familiar with what is going on out there so i just cant help my self from inquiring more info from you.

- You mentioned that these US consultants work for organizations in bangkok but my question is this: Did many of these US attorneys start working for these multinational organizations or international firms on the west coast in the States and eventually get transferred to SE Asia or did a majority of them attain their education in the states and then begin their search for a job at large organizations located in Thailand.

The reason im asking really detailed questions is the more i know the easier it will be to get geared in the right direction from the start. My goal is to be working in bangkok not immediately but to lay a foundation to be out there in about 5-6 years.

- Also you mentioned the correct way to go about attaining a job. In the states im extremely familiar with the correct way to seek out high ranking organizations and so on..... but im a little perplexed as to the proper procedure that would be implemented in Thailand. Would you just browse for organizations that are large and do business with the US and then contact their human resources department or would searching for a job in thailand be predominately word of mouth? ( i already know its got to do with who you know but what if you know very few people in thailand)

Thank you again any comments would be really helpful

Based solely on the people I know well enough to have asked, almost all found their job locally. This could be different for the higher ups at the international firms.

As for seeking jobs in Thailand through HR – Thailand (and most of Asia in general) has pretty weak HR, they are more paper pushers. This is different at some of the MNCs (case by case basis). Also, getting a job with a large MNC is tougher, they prefer to transfer out or hire locals, and at best it would be a local package; though I do know some who have been moved from one large MNC to another by headhunters or other connections. Exceptions to this are in transport/logistics companies and MNCs with a small presence. In general, I would not ignore any organization or avenue, but the HR people are a real mixed bag, you may contact them and never hear again, many will just delete your CV.

[Furbie]

Emsfeld,

Good luck. Cheers.