People Warned Against Forwarding PM's Doctored Audio Clip

[justanothercybertosser]

but we know what they do up front, and it is more than just plausible that they ALSO do things we can't see... yet.

What we can see though is that already several days ago the Democrat spokesman who has came out in the first place with the theory that put the origin of the tape with SC Assets has on Thai TV backtracked and said that he was misquoted by the media. Now Police investigations has cleared SC Assets as well.

But you are still convinced that you completely unproven theory is "plausible", and therefore right.

Present me with proof or evidence, and i shall change my views according to the facts presented. As long as you have none whatsoever, you are in the same league as the flat earth society.

They said SC was not the "SOURCE" of the edited file, ie who made it,

nothing about it not being culpable for dissemination.

Nor does that say definitvely that SC people do not KNOW who made it.

Nor does it say these two are truthful about the bus stop charade.

It could be one woman was sent to hand out copies as a possible escape valve too.

It could also be the police saying one thing to lull the culprits into being sloppy thinking the got by it.

If you consider the BS the Chalerm has presented in Assmebly sessions all proved wrong,

then using a doctored tape is also totally plausibly, like it or not.

Your side is not over flowing with credibility.

Which, then do you assume to be my "side"?

Nobody has any doubt whatsoever that two employees of AC Asset have forwarded the tape. If they are culpable in legal terms is far from clear because it is not sure that they knew that the tape is manufactured. And from what i understand this point is rather important in this case.

You, in your post i initially responded to, went off the deep end and stated, quoted from your post:

"Typical, two underlings told to fall on their swords for the overlords interests."

and:

"Sacrifice two more pawns to protect little sister. 'A youngkluck survives another day out of the protective nest-egg.' "

This implies clearly that you, without any proof whatsoever, accuse the whole of SC Assets, and especially Thaksin's sister, of being behind the actions of those two workers. Actually, if anybody would bother with another irrelevant conspiracist on an internet forum, this statement would clearly be libelous.

[Rumfoord]

Thaksin firm cleared of involvement in audio clip

2 employees remain under investigation

A police investigation has cleared the Thaksin Shinawatra family firm SC Asset Corporation of involvement with the recording of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva allegedly ordering the violent suppression of anti-government protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/2...t-in-audio-clip

so all these accusations that thaksins or his sister is responsible have been trash talk, BS and or lies with obviously no interest in the inner peace of the society but only to add fuel to the fire of the current situation. so could it be under the computer crime act punished with whatever and many years in jail?

or will at least some big mouth "experts" shut up now and/or admit that they have been wrong?

[justanothercybertosser]

or will at least some big mouth "experts" shut up now and/or admit that they have been wrong?

Obviously they won't - they seem to prefer to act as this article never happened and keep spinning in the other thread dealing with the same subject matter.

[ThNiner]

Thaksin firm cleared of involvement in audio clip

2 employees remain under investigation

A police investigation has cleared the Thaksin Shinawatra family firm SC Asset Corporation of involvement with the recording of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva allegedly ordering the violent suppression of anti-government protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/2...t-in-audio-clip

Not a surprise since the policeman who heads the investigation has a history of close relationship with Thaksin's clan. The guy was promoted by Thaksin to take charge of Southern Isan...

[justanothercybertosser]

Not a surprise since the policeman who heads the investigation has a history of close relationship with Thaksin's clan. The guy was promoted by Thaksin to take charge of Southern Isan...

Yes of course...

[ThNiner]

Not a surprise since the policeman who heads the investigation has a history of close relationship with Thaksin's clan. The guy was promoted by Thaksin to take charge of Southern Isan...

Yes of course...

It's true.

[animatic]

Thaksin firm cleared of involvement in audio clip

2 employees remain under investigation

A police investigation has cleared the Thaksin Shinawatra family firm SC Asset Corporation of involvement with the recording of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva allegedly ordering the violent suppression of anti-government protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/2...t-in-audio-clip

Not a surprise since the policeman who heads the investigation has a history of close relationship with Thaksin's clan. The guy was promoted by Thaksin to take charge of Southern Isan...

Right on spot.

It has been historically true that Thai underlings take the hit to protect the higher ups;

get the 50 years sentence and quietly let out and off to green pastures 2 years later.

This is an historical SOP. I didn't invent this.

And little sisters are always protected no matter who in her entourage

screws the pooch too close to her. Fired and not really fired. Annuity-ized.

Appearances for the play of the day.

Seems Salad Tosser and Redrum are working pretty close in tandem

to upset the the inner peace of society in TV. What truly inspired

and motivating individuals, working togehter to rout out evil thought

and create a better life for reddened minds every where.

And the boss applauds off camera, stage far, far, left wing.

The fact remains this story is FAR from played out,

and ThNiners comment makes that obvious.

It is easy to understand he is in a better position to know they many here.

We can usually tell whether the buttered side of the bread

lands face down or not.

Edited September 3, 2009 by animatic

[justanothercybertosser]

Not a surprise since the policeman who heads the investigation has a history of close relationship with Thaksin's clan. The guy was promoted by Thaksin to take charge of Southern Isan...

Yes of course...

It's true.

Of course it is true.

Being Prime Minister for 5 years, you will have difficulties to find any police officer, civil servant or soldier who has not been promoted during Thaksin's time.

[animatic]

Not a surprise since the policeman who heads the investigation has a history of close relationship with Thaksin's clan. The guy was promoted by Thaksin to take charge of Southern Isan...

Yes of course...

It's true.

Of course it is true.

Being Prime Minister for 5 years, you will have difficulties to find any police officer, civil servant or soldier who has not been promoted during Thaksin's time.

Yes,

but for Thaksin's special friends promotions and pay raises went up

faster and farther that ever was typical before.

He was salting the deck with his chosen few.

And make no mistake a BIG jump-up to being police honcho in charge of ISSAN, of all places,

during Thaksin's reign as Emperor,err, Prime mini-ister, was a VERY plum position and

one requiring loyalty and certain payback in the future when called on.

This story is far from over... lets see which way this guy goes next month in the coming police shuffle.

Maybe he helped Thaksin this time, but may have shot his foot if this current crew lasts a lot longer.

[SHYTALK]

Why doesn't thailand just have a legitimate election and put all this sort of stuff to bed?

Who in thailand is afraid of democracy and letting the people decide.

Because that would not put it to bed,

but just stall it with all the battle sides drawn.

And awaiting a very sad event, and this needs to be settled before that.

Unless elections are free and fair, unlike the last 3-4 it can never be a solution.

I need not postulated a " Vast Red Conspiracy"

Take PTP with direct Tie to Red Shirts

Jatuporm a PTP MP and RED Shirt leader

His rabble rousing on the stage and who this could tie in.

Take Chalerm PTP leader who broadcast long and loud about this file,

till he found out it was faked and Abhisit was steaming and going for

the law, with teeth in it, over this and then too slowly,

and then MUCH more quickly back pedaled away.

Take major PTP supporter Yingluck,

little sister of devious symbol of Red Shirt salvation Dr. T.

And her worker bees being integral to this files moving out to the world.

We ONLY have their word that they got it at a Bus Stop.

There is NO corroboration beyond that one person saying something.

If you mean a meeting was held to smear Abhisit via this tape, nope I doubt it,

Just standing orders to find dirt on him and the Dems ASAP.

That most all of these people were hungry for ANYTHING to slam Abhisit with,

then this is totally plausible.

They took this audio smear and ALL ran with it.

Not knowing much about electronic files it seems.

PTP, SC Management for Thaksin and Red shirts; nice little bundle,

intending to disseminate this tripe vastly... in Redland.

Never mind the quality, feel the width eh...

Only an election will restore any sort of democratic legitimacy.

[SHYTALK]

Well organised politcal hatchet job (by reds or possibly (seems less likely now) some assumed to be on his side) or a few silly and overenthusiatic red supporters doing what they thought a good thing for their side and seeing it backfire badly?

Any Zinoviev letter type of politcal hatchet job of any kind of course should be condemned by all, investigated thoroughly and the perpetrators punished.

There again, no back-fires with military coups....eh

[justanothercybertosser]

Yes,

but for Thaksin's special friends promotions and pay raises went up

faster and farther that ever was typical before.

He was salting the deck with his chosen few.

And make no mistake a BIG jump-up to being police honcho in charge of ISSAN, of all places,

during Thaksin's reign as Emperor,err, Prime mini-ister, was a VERY plum position and

one requiring loyalty and certain payback in the future when called on.

This story is far from over... lets see which way this guy goes next month in the coming police shuffle.

Maybe he helped Thaksin this time, but may have shot his foot if this current crew lasts a lot longer.

Coming back to the topic at hand - the fake clip.

Do you any proof whatsoever of what you blather about here, or is it just the usual beer bar gossip? Because, so far, your posts on this topic have been nothing but a waste of bandwidth.

[Rumfoord]

and when forwarding this audio clip i such an highly illegal act and a crime, what is if you had just downloaded the clip from the internet and listen to it?

isn't that illegal as well and should be punished in the same way?

some of the "experts" on this board seems to know the content and the nature of his audio clip so well, they must have listen to it even more than once.

thugs, how they dare! there is no defense line. democracy and freedom of information and right to privacy my arse. that audio clip is life-threatening for abhisit, harm the national security and put thailand into chaos. as honest and law-abiding citizen or guest of this country they should surrender to the authorities and do jail time. the number of years accordingly to how often they had listen to that clip.

[animatic]

Ah well that explains why you clearly have not read or mis-read most of them.

Actuall I never left topic it's the dispostion of this clip, and talking about the

lead investigators credentials and history is very germain to the outcome of this investigation.

So don't bother trying to turn the story to me, there is a bigger one

and thinking people ARE focusing on it, in spite of organized attempts to sidetrack it.

[Publicus]

Why doesn't thailand just have a legitimate election and put all this sort of stuff to bed?

Who in thailand is afraid of democracy and letting the people decide.

Because that would not put it to bed,

but just stall it with all the battle sides drawn.

And awaiting a very sad event, and this needs to be settled before that.

Unless elections are free and fair, unlike the last 3-4 it can never be a solution.

I need not postulated a " Vast Red Conspiracy"

Take PTP with direct Tie to Red Shirts

Jatuporm a PTP MP and RED Shirt leader

His rabble rousing on the stage and who this could tie in.

Take Chalerm PTP leader who broadcast long and loud about this file,

till he found out it was faked and Abhisit was steaming and going for

the law, with teeth in it, over this and then too slowly,

and then MUCH more quickly back pedaled away.

Take major PTP supporter Yingluck,

little sister of devious symbol of Red Shirt salvation Dr. T.

And her worker bees being integral to this files moving out to the world.

We ONLY have their word that they got it at a Bus Stop.

There is NO corroboration beyond that one person saying something.

If you mean a meeting was held to smear Abhisit via this tape, nope I doubt it,

Just standing orders to find dirt on him and the Dems ASAP.

That most all of these people were hungry for ANYTHING to slam Abhisit with,

then this is totally plausible.

They took this audio smear and ALL ran with it.

Not knowing much about electronic files it seems.

PTP, SC Management for Thaksin and Red shirts; nice little bundle,

intending to disseminate this tripe vastly... in Redland.

Never mind the quality, feel the width eh...

Only an election will restore any sort of democratic legitimacy.

Thaksin wants revolution, which is the word he used during Pattaya while his supporters and apologists around here keep calling for new elections. So which is it?

Thailand keeps having elections that the other side doesn't accept so the call goes out again for another election. The fact is the last election Thaksin liked was annuled by the courts of Thailand and the Election Commission thrown behind bars for fraud. Shall we have a repeat performance?

Animatic is spot on.

Get real. Thaksin and his kin weren't involved in this tape fiasco? Get real.

Anytime we smell <deleted> it's usually because someone stepped in it which is what Thaksin did in raping the 1997 checks and balances constitution then dismembering it and scattering its ashes, followed by his plot in September 2006 to seize absolute control of the government while caretaker PM without a parliament.

Thaksin is screaming "revolution" over his cellphone whilst his hoards are attacking foreign leaders assembled in Thailand. Get real.

[animatic]

The only one wanting 'Revolution in Thailand' more than Thaksin is

Giles Up Chucking Korn, in self-imposed exile, ALSO... oh the trendiness of it all...

The guy has gone so neo-Trotskyite it's scary in this day an age.

Makes Jack Rabbit Pop's recent comments seem like kiddie pool talk.

These nutters must remember that those who created, and carried out,

and tried to control the French Revolution, ALL came to abrupt: BAD ENDS.

Only looking up, if their heads happened to roll that way...

[justanothercybertosser]

Get real. Thaksin and his kin weren't involved in this tape fiasco? Get real.

Getting real usually involves a presentation of proof.

None offered whatsoever.

Instead angry tirades of wild speculation.

Boring.

[justanothercybertosser]

and talking about the

lead investigators credentials and history is very germain to the outcome of this investigation.

No, that is usually called "character assassination".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_assassination

Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominem argument.

Again - if this would not be uttered by someone rather irrelevant, this would be quite clearly in breach of the rather strict libel laws of Thailand. Just because you may not like someone, or it would be too much effort to go after you, does not mean that laws do not count for you.

And given that the government you seem to favor here has introduced some rather strict cyber crime laws - i would suggest to be a bit more careful with what you say without presenting any proof whatsoever.

[Plus]

The news that the company has been cleared means very little.

First of all it means they can't find any proof of connection - internal memos, e-mails, or other employees confessions. If the order was given by phone or in person there wouldn't be any trace left anyway, so the possibility is still there.

I don't know if you noticed, but Thai Visa forum is an online discussion board, not the courtroom and we don't need proof beyond reasonable doubt.

Personally I'm gathering all the reasonable doubt that SC Asset wasn't involved and the woman at the bus stop gave the CD to Shinawtra employees by sheer luck. What are the chances.

So far there's no proof that the woman ever existed, haven't checked the latest news yet, but no one else has seen her or those CDs.

[Publicus]

and talking about the

lead investigators credentials and history is very germain to the outcome of this investigation.

No, that is usually called "character assassination".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_assassination

Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominem argument.

Again - if this would not be uttered by someone rather irrelevant, this would be quite clearly in breach of the rather strict libel laws of Thailand. Just because you may not like someone, or it would be too much effort to go after you, does not mean that laws do not count for you.

And given that the government you seem to favor here has introduced some rather strict cyber crime laws - i would suggest to be a bit more careful with what you say without presenting any proof whatsoever.

Unlike in the United States and a good number of other Western democracies the laws of Thailand do not accept truth as a defense. Proof of truth in this respect means nothing in Thai law.

Instead, the standard in Thailand is whether one makes another look bad. This Old World "judicial philosophy" and "jurisprudence" is designed and intented to protect the wealthy and powerful. In Thailand you speak truth and you go to prison. The libel and defamation laws of Thailand were written by the wealthy and powerful elites to protect themselves.

So thanks anyway for the definition from Wikipedia, which is like quoting the wind or the shifting sands as anyone can enter anything they please to the site. Maudlin indeed.

I reiterate we rather need to be concerned about Thaksin's shreeking "revolution" via his cellphone during Pattaya where foreign leaders were forced to evacuate their meeting venue from the roof by helicopter.

We need to be concerned because of his supporters and apologists who threaten others by violence or by citing local laws that are backwards and upside down, while they themselves sanctimonously call for immediate new elections in the name of democracy, as if Thaksin were a democrat or promoter of democracy.

Again, which is it, democracy or revolution??? It's more than obvious no one could have it both ways. Yet the absurd contradiction continues.

[justanothercybertosser]

I don't know if you noticed, but Thai Visa forum is an online discussion board, not the courtroom and we don't need proof beyond reasonable doubt.

Do mean to say that because ThaiVisa is an online discussion board we can do away with a the usual baggage that comes with discussions, such as reason and the need to substantiate our claims, and just throw around with whatever may jump into our minds and we just accept it as true and valid because some anonymous poster with whose opinions we agree says so?

That truly is a revolutionary development in human communication...

Edited September 4, 2009 by justanothercybertosser

[justanothercybertosser]

Proof of truth in this respect means nothing in Thai law.

And that seems to count for ThaiVisa as well. Here one can state whatever one feels to, no proof needed, regardless of all evidence to the contrary, as long as one hates Thaksin.

By the way, you have a rather novel interpretation of Thai law, and why you don't need to observe it while on ThaiVisa...

[Plus]

I mean to say that we don't need final Supreme Court verdict after all appeals have been completely exhausted to say that SC Asset was involved in this case. THere are reasons to substantiate that claim, too.

[animatic]

and talking about the

lead investigators credentials and history is very germain to the outcome of this investigation.

No, that is usually called "character assassination".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_assassination

Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominem argument.

Again - if this would not be uttered by someone rather irrelevant, this would be quite clearly in breach of the rather strict libel laws of Thailand. Just because you may not like someone, or it would be too much effort to go after you, does not mean that laws do not count for you.

And given that the government you seem to favor here has introduced some rather strict cyber crime laws - i would suggest to be a bit more careful with what you say without presenting any proof whatsoever.

Again trying to change the direction. Misdirection;

don't watch the masters hands watch my posturing.

Like the semi-cute girl distracting from the magicians slight of hand.

He likely lost his character and good name, when he accepted such a plum position from Thaksin.

He likely to became the puyai's lacky for life at that level. And likely just gave some payback to that debt.

So thanks anyway for the definition from Wikipedia, which is like quoting the wind or the shifting sands

as anyone can enter anything they please to the site. Maudlin indeed.

Copy cat colpy cat yat a tatat.

Edited September 4, 2009 by animatic

[justanothercybertosser]

I mean to say that we don't need final Supreme Court verdict after all appeals have been completely exhausted to say that SC Asset was involved in this case. THere are reasons to substantiate that claim, too.

Given that the police investigation has cleared SC Assets, and the government has so far not even protested - there are far more reasons that these claims are completely unreasonable.

Just because a Democrat party spokesperson has accused SC Asset (and note: no investigator has done so), only to backtrack two days after, claiming that he was "misquoted" by the media, does not mean that several posters here can go off the deep end, and ignore whatever may counter these claims.

I wonder how many here see the irony of throwing around wild speculations without any substantiation in a thread which has as a topic the legal implications of forwarding a clip of fake evidence that is libelous...

[animatic]

Proof of truth in this respect means nothing in Thai law.

And that seems to count for ThaiVisa as well. Here one can state whatever one feels to, no proof needed, regardless of all evidence to the contrary, as long as one hates Thaksin.

By the way, you have a rather novel interpretation of Thai law, and why you don't need to observe it while on ThaiVisa...

You certainly seem to live this to it's fullest. Colpyat copycat.

Well hope the overlords checks keep clearing, unless one is JUST a zealot.

Edited September 4, 2009 by animatic

[animatic]

Where there's smoke there's fire, and SC ASSets is looking pretty singed.

Sums up the present position well.

[Samuian]

Quite funny isn't it?

These doctored clips appear, 2 employees get arrested,

the company happens "accidentally", to be owned by a

close relative of a prominent fugitive who causes in any

given moment quite a stir, picks at any chance to discredit

anyone in his path, or opposing him, the BiB's "investigation"

comes up with nothing.... So Senr Chalerm is about in the

right track this time?

That would be quite a twist - would it?

All of a sudden the wolf becomes an angel.. ?

I don't think so, something's fishy...

[Publicus]

Proof of truth in this respect means nothing in Thai law.

And that seems to count for ThaiVisa as well. Here one can state whatever one feels to, no proof needed, regardless of all evidence to the contrary, as long as one hates Thaksin.

By the way, you have a rather novel interpretation of Thai law, and why you don't need to observe it while on ThaiVisa...

Misdirection indeed.

I've pointed out that while Thaksin shreeks for violent revolution over his cellphone a certain few posters say he is the embodiment of democracy and the voice of the people. As I make note of this clear contradiction I get some kind of bogus riot act read to me.

I was in Thailand before Thaksin became PM, while he was PM and after he'd been PM. Thailand was an infinitely better place before Thaksin was PM and I knew it then as I know it now.

That Thaksin was shreeking over his cellphone for violent revolution during Pattaya, forcing foreign leaders to evacuate the venue from its roof by helicopter is a fact. No democratic government will have anything to do with Thaksin, including yours or mine. Another salient fact is that Thaksin is a convicted criminal who is a fugitive from his own country's justice.

On the point, the question remains: Is it democracy the certain few posters here want from Thaksin or is it his "revolution" which is violent as we saw in Pattaya??? And then in Bangkok during Black Songkran???

[animatic]

Revolution suits Thaksin's needs, status quo doesn't.

So attack the status quo and convince enough people that they are victims,

of a amorphously names Elite....

Never once letting the obvious be clearly stated;

Thaksin has always been PART of that elite clique,

but stepped on too many toes, and the locals will no long tolerate him.

As large a loss of face as can be done here, short of public naked execution,

in front of the common folk in the town square, while they throw veggies at him.

That not being countenanced of course.