People Warned Against Forwarding PM's Doctored Audio Clip

[justanothercybertosser]

I have no clue,

You have made that painfully clear.

[animatic]

Both of the recent times the Dems have lead the government,

external economic factors made their job extra difficult.

Not their fault, the seeds were planted by multiple previous governments

for these debacles, as well as external pressures beyond their control.

Thaksin got the lucky slot between world or regional meltdowns.

The influx of Yaba to Thailand coincided with the agreements between Burma,

and assorted tribal regions to not mess with each other and their business in exchange for peace.

China had a hand in this also, wanting to keep the region unstable for their own reasons,

so drugs flowed freely into Thailand and we all know some BIB, some military and others

were NOT uninvolved, in many cases.

Can't blame Chuan gov, for not understanding a new and rapidly growing external problem.

That you can not adequately document because it is too new, and happening too fast

that you can't counteract it effectively. Especially if your investigative arm is profiting from this.

Thaksin of course went fully draconian with massive collateral damage to cure it.

And the fall out from that hasn't ended. Nor has yaba been erased from Thailand's youth.

The Wa and others still make and ship it, but now that the problem is better understood,

it is being interdicted more often, as Thaksin SHOULD have tried.

Rather than a Shoot Out At the OK Corral, guns blazing approach.

[animatic]

I have no clue,

You have made that painfully clear.

To put my quote back in context,

and not in your flaming cherry picked lack of context.

Where you get the idea PAD and the military get along, I have no clue,

since most of the Sondhi assignation attempt investigation points AT the military...

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda attempts.

Seems discourse with you must be made painful,

that speak's volumes about your attitude.

[Insight]

I have no clue,

You have made that painfully clear.

To put my quote back in context,

and not in your flaming cherry picked lack of context.

Where you get the idea PAD and the military get along, I have no clue,

since most of the Sondhi assignation attempt investigation points AT the military...

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda attempts.

Seems discourse with you must be made painful,

that speak's volumes about your attitude.

I also thought that out-of-context quote was way off-side myself.

[justanothercybertosser]

Both of the recent times the Dems have lead the government,

external economic factors made their job extra difficult.

Not their fault, the seeds were planted by multiple previous governments

for these debacles, as well as external pressures beyond their control.

Thaksin got the lucky slot between world or regional meltdowns.

The influx of Yaba to Thailand coincided with the agreements between Burma,

and assorted tribal regions to not mess with each other and their business in exchange for peace.

China had a hand in this also, wanting to keep the region unstable for their own reasons,

so drugs flowed freely into Thailand and we all know some BIB, some military and others

were NOT uninvolved, in many cases.

Can't blame Chuan gov, for not understanding a new and rapidly growing external problem.

That you can not adequately document because it is too new, and happening too fast

that you can't counteract it effectively. Especially if your investigative arm is profiting from this.

Thaksin of course went fully draconian with massive collateral damage to cure it.

And the fall out from that hasn't ended. Nor has yaba been erased from Thailand's youth.

The Wa and others still make and ship it, but now that the problem is better understood,

it is being interdicted more often, as Thaksin SHOULD have tried.

Rather than a Shoot Out At the OK Corral, guns blazing approach.

This post is rubbish on so many levels, it really pains to read.

There are external factors (more conspiracy theories presented by you - also before the peaceagreements drugs were smuggled into Thailand, and you can bet that with the new looming wars in Burma the drug output will only rise. It is not "China" that had an interest in destabilising the region by drugs, that is complete rubbish. Traditional Yunnanese drug cartells operate since generations in the area), and internal factors. Lets leave the external factors aside for a while, and concentrate on the internal factors.

It was not just bad evil Burma and the Wa, but a complete lack of attention post crises to the many villages. No policies, no solutions. The Chuan Government only concentrated on the economy. The Chuan government had neither the will nor the ability to understand the serious drug problem in Thailand post-crises. And it was not so new either - the trend was clear by the mid 90's. Even the name change from Ya Ma to Ya Ba was a legacy of the Banharn government, a sort of lipservice to promoting the evils of meta-amphetamines which were already then on the rise. So yes, after all those years the Chuan 2 government is clearly to be blamed for not understanding the problem, but also for neglecting it.

After the drug war drugs have not been eradicated (no country in the world is drug free), but meta amphetamines have disappeared in many villages and have been minimized in many urban communities. Prices jumped up from 40 to 100 baht to more 400 baht a pill in urban communities, and to 1000 baht in villages, and were very difficult if not entirely impossible to get.

The return of the drugs began in 2006, and in mid 2008 the problem began to escalate again. Now it is not as bad as before, but the trend shows us that sooner or later it will get there. The price per pill is now at around 200 baht, and available all over again.

There are not more interceptions, the nature of cross border smuggling has simply changed. Previously there were mostly large caravans, while now small groups smuggle limited amount of drugs, which makes interceptions even more difficult. Drug routes have changes as well, are now all over the borders. Also the recently finished dams in China lowered the river levels, making passing much easier. And there are nowadays many smaller labs located in Thailand as well.

[justanothercybertosser]

I have no clue,

You have made that painfully clear.

To put my quote back in context,

and not in your flaming cherry picked lack of context.

Where you get the idea PAD and the military get along, I have no clue,

since most of the Sondhi assignation attempt investigation points AT the military...

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda attempts.

Seems discourse with you must be made painful,

that speak's volumes about your attitude.

Good, then in the right context:

You should get a clue that some very powerful factions of the military have supported the PAD by the fact that for example a 5-star General appeared on their stage in full uniform, or that General Saprang, one of the coup makers, has visited the PAD regularly behind the stage. Even the PAD itself has never hidden their support of many powerful factions of the military. It was regularly announced that this or the other regiment and battalion supported the PAD protests.

Many of the guards were/are active soldiers.

In short, yes, you have no clue.

[Plus]

Thai At Heart

I think there will be virtually no obligation on the defendants to "prove" anything. They can just shut up if they want to and do nothing. The obligation to prove illegal activity under the "National Security" and defamation law will lie entirely with the prosecution. I would doubt that the prosecution can even prove that there was any malicious intent in sending the email to a couple of friends.

Prosecution doesn't have to prove malicious intent, they have illegal action - spreading false information - that clearly falls under the Computer Act.

Guys can plead ignorance in their defense but I doubt it will get very far in court - checking authenticity of that clip was their responsibility as "publishers". Imagine a traditional media outlet getting hands on the clip first - the journalist and the editors would have full legal responsibility for its content and "we didn't know it was doctored" defense argument would be totally absurd. Computer Act simply extends this kind of responsibility to people who post stuff on the Internet.

Justanother....

This constitution has tremendous weaknesses, which all result in a step back to a much larger military involvement in political decision making. The constitution has been more or less a few very clear outcomes: more military control, less power for elected representatives. Instead of keeping the constitution short and easy, and to let the rest be dealt with via organic laws, we have a rather strange document, which has seen it even necessary to give retroactive amnesty to the coup makers. Sorry - but this is a constitution fit for a banana republic, and not for Thailand.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling.

I'm afraid none of this has any ground whatsoever.

There's no military control or involvement in any political decision making and the elected representatives do not have less powers, they are just under more oversight.

I'm surprised you came up with this critique without any reference to the amendment proposals. On the second thought - no, I'm not surprised, because those changes would expose your criticism as groundless.

The only more or less relevant point is demand for lawmakers to be given access to government work as advisors, or any other positions. The idiots just realized that being in parliament leaves you with boring legislative duties with no access to any funds and all the executive work is being done by someone else, and they want a piece of that pie. And we know why they want their hands on budgets - to serve the public, of course...

TRT was dissolved under provisions in 1997 constitution, there weren't any new laws retroactively applied to suddenly make it illegal. One of the deciding points in TRT case was complete inaction over the offenses - everybody knew what had happened, Chaturon testified to that, yet no one in the party thought it was wrong and anyone should be punished. So, I don't buy the argument that any of their executives were innocent - they all condoned Thammarak's transgressions, including breaking into the EC database and falsifying official records. They all just sat there and pretended nothing happened and no internal party actions were necessary.

Democrats, on the other hand, had promptly distanced themselves from the guy accused of bribing those same parties, he was fired and disowned and there were internal inquiries and party resolutions.

>>>>

On the eve of the coup there were no elections scheduled for October. That date was thrown out of the window months earlier, when the EC commissioners were busted. The new commissioners were appointed just as the coup happened, and they didn't promise any dates whatsoever when interviewed by the media. Go and check Nation's archives for that interview, if you want, it was published one or two days before the coup.

[DocHolliday]

Both of the recent times the Dems have lead the government,

external economic factors made their job extra difficult.

Not their fault, the seeds were planted by multiple previous governments

for these debacles, as well as external pressures beyond their control.

Thaksin got the lucky slot between world or regional meltdowns.

The influx of Yaba to Thailand coincided with the agreements between Burma,

and assorted tribal regions to not mess with each other and their business in exchange for peace.

China had a hand in this also, wanting to keep the region unstable for their own reasons,

so drugs flowed freely into Thailand and we all know some BIB, some military and others

were NOT uninvolved, in many cases.

Can't blame Chuan gov, for not understanding a new and rapidly growing external problem.

That you can not adequately document because it is too new, and happening too fast

that you can't counteract it effectively. Especially if your investigative arm is profiting from this.

Thaksin of course went fully draconian with massive collateral damage to cure it.

And the fall out from that hasn't ended. Nor has yaba been erased from Thailand's youth.

The Wa and others still make and ship it, but now that the problem is better understood,

it is being interdicted more often, as Thaksin SHOULD have tried.

Rather than a Shoot Out At the OK Corral, guns blazing approach.

Rather than a Shoot Out At the OK Corral, guns blazing approach.

Am I needed?

[justanothercybertosser]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling.

The party dissolution came through a coup introduced law. The '97 constitution said nothing about party dissolution in such a case.

A law that was applied to TRT retroactively was not applied to the Democrats in a very similar case. Everything else is just white noise.

The caretaker government scheduled new elections for October. The coup came in between.

Edited September 6, 2009 by justanothercybertosser

[animatic]

Must be very painful,

since you can't get past the calloused thought train.

Feel the burn!

[Publicus]

I have no clue,

You have made that painfully clear.

To put my quote back in context,

Good, then in the right context:

You should get a clue that some very powerful factions of the military have supported the PAD by the fact that for example a 5-star General appeared on their stage in full uniform, or that General Saprang, one of the coup makers, has visited the PAD regularly behind the stage. Even the PAD itself has never hidden their support of many powerful factions of the military. It was regularly announced that this or the other regiment and battalion supported the PAD protests.

Many of the guards were/are active soldiers.

In short, yes, you have no clue.

It's a certainty you don't care that your already low credibility (to be polite) is not helped by the "no clue" business you've started. You've even gone ahead to compound an out of bounds action by kicking offside. You however have missed the net. Know that.

Your critique of the Democrat Party is nonetheless well taken. To bring some balance to your perspective consider also that the Chuan government was being stared at by a Baht that had gone from 25 to the USD to 55. The Abhisit government is having to deal with a meglomaniac (real, not a symbol) and his 'do or die' maladies coupled by the similar behavioural disorders of his supporters in the Kingdom.

Those who do not accept that Thaksin was convicted of a crime in open court in Thailand also do not accept the legitimacy of the Thai Judiciary and fairly can be considered by extension as also likely to have a disregard of all legitimate authority in the Kingdom.

Thaksin is unwelcome in democracies because democratic governments do recognize the legitimacy of the Thai courts, the laws of Thailand and Thai sovereignty. Leaders of democracies throughout the world are not organizing or holding symposia to figure a way to get Thaksin back into the government of Thailand.

So take a clue.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Publicus

[animatic]

Essentially those army units were saying we don't support Thaksin.

Drawing a line in the sand. And letting HIS factions know they are not welcome.

Never made them big PAD members. Just that PAD had some usefulness for a spell.

PAD was just the spear point to route out and expose his machinations.

The barking dog in the night. No one really expected or expects much shelf life from them.

Edited September 6, 2009 by animatic

[justanothercybertosser]

It's a certainty you don't care that your already low credibility (to be polite) is not helped by the "no clue" business you've started. You've even gone ahead to compound an out of bounds action by kicking offside. You however have missed the net. Know that.

Your critique of the Democrat Party is nonetheless well taken. To bring some balance to your perspective consider also that the Chuan government was being stared at by a Baht that had gone from 25 to the USD to 55. The Abhisit government is having to deal with a meglomaniac (real, not a symbol) and his 'do or die' maladies coupled by the similar behavioural disorders of his supporters in the Kingdom.

Those who do not accept that Thaksin was convicted of a crime in open court in Thailand also do not accept the legitimacy of the Thai Judiciary and fairly can be considered by extension as also likely to have a disregard of all legitimate authority in the Kingdom.

Thaksin is unwelcome in democracies because democratic governments do recognize the legitimacy of the Thai courts, the laws of Thailand and Thai sovereignty. Leaders of democracies throughout the world are not organizing or holding symposia to figure a way to get Thaksin back into the government of Thailand.

So take a clue.

Our discussion should not be derailed by a my comment of a poster not having a clue about what he talks about. And i am sorry, as soon as someone states that the PAD had no massive military support he disqualifies himself from any rational discussion on the subject matter. God even the PAD has publicly acknowledged this fact, has even promoted it endlessly from their stages.

Yes, i am aware of the fact that the Chuan 2 government had to deal with a massive economical crises, and on a national economic level, the have dealt with it rather well. As far as i can understand.

Nevertheless - the social issues the Democrats have not dealt with, and that was one of the major reasons people did not vote for the democrats. TRT has dealt with the social issues far better, and not too bad with economical issues either. And that is one of the major reasons people not just voted for TRT again, but have also voted for PPP in 2007.

And so far, the Democrats continue to blame Thaksin for the own failure of initiating proper policies for the more disadvantages sectors of society.

As to the details of his conviction, they were slightly shady, to say the least. Land that was bought over the price the Chuan government has fixed, from an agency that was declared for the sake of the judgement as state agency, wich though in a previous case was declared a private entity, and therefore exempt from the law that forbids politicians to buy assets from state agencies.

Why Thaksin is not welcome in many countries is a slight bit more complex that simple partisanship with the present government of Thailand.

The stuff that could have given a clear conviction against Thaksin has never really made it to the courts, and most likely won't either in the foreseeable future. There are reasons for this.

And i am still waiting for a comment from you on the rather undemocratic issues i have pointed out, such as the use of the Blue Shirt in Pattaya. I presume that i wouldn't here the end of it if that would have been Thaksin who would have used these thugs...

[justanothercybertosser]

Essentially those army units were saying we don't support Thaksin.

Drawing a kine in the sand. And letting HIS factions know they are not welcome.

Never made them big PAD members. Just that PAD had some usefulness for a spell.

PAD was just the spear point to route out and expose his machinations.

The barking dog in the night. No one really expected or expects much shelf life from them.

The said that on the PAD stage (Gen. Pathumpong), behind the stage (Gen. Saprang), and sent soldiers to function as PAD guards. That makes them supporters of the PAD. But you have denied that.

Anyhow, in a liberal democracy, which Thailand presumes to be, the military has no job of stating their political preference, and has to be under the control of civilians, both elected and of independent organizations.

Anyhow, if you want to flame me, at least try it with a bit of humor, instead just using the symbol.

Not very creative...

[animatic]

Massive support... hardly. Some certainly.

It's a matter of degree, and hardly conclusive as you try to assume...

The army took a;

'The enemy of my enemy,

might be my friend for the moment",

view on things.

But there seems to be no grey areas in your world view,

just black white and red.

Extraordinary narrowness of view is grounds for disqualification if anything is.

TRT used very narrowly focused Social Issues management;

specifically where it built TRT a voter block, and said to hel_l with all other

equally poor segments of society that never voted TRT.

Clearly manipulative and for Thaksin's benefit, more than any other.

No one of ANY government had adequately dealt with the North East,

so ANY amount of attention would bring in big returns,

but that makes it no less manipulative or humane.

That cat is out of the bag and isn't going back in so a moot point of

Thaksin front party vs all other coalition groupings.

They all now must deal with the N.E. and know it.

Edited September 6, 2009 by animatic

[Samuian]

It's a certainty you don't care that your already low credibility (to be polite) is not helped by the "no clue" business you've started. You've even gone ahead to compound an out of bounds action by kicking offside. You however have missed the net. Know that.

Your critique of the Democrat Party is nonetheless well taken. To bring some balance to your perspective consider also that the Chuan government was being stared at by a Baht that had gone from 25 to the USD to 55. The Abhisit government is having to deal with a meglomaniac (real, not a symbol) and his 'do or die' maladies coupled by the similar behavioural disorders of his supporters in the Kingdom.

Those who do not accept that Thaksin was convicted of a crime in open court in Thailand also do not accept the legitimacy of the Thai Judiciary and fairly can be considered by extension as also likely to have a disregard of all legitimate authority in the Kingdom.

Thaksin is unwelcome in democracies because democratic governments do recognize the legitimacy of the Thai courts, the laws of Thailand and Thai sovereignty. Leaders of democracies throughout the world are not organizing or holding symposia to figure a way to get Thaksin back into the government of Thailand.

So take a clue.

Our discussion should not be derailed by a my comment of a poster not having a clue about what he talks about. And i am sorry, as soon as someone states that the PAD had no massive military support he disqualifies himself from any rational discussion on the subject matter. God even the PAD has publicly acknowledged this fact, has even promoted it endlessly from their stages.

Yes, i am aware of the fact that the Chuan 2 government had to deal with a massive economical crises, and on a national economic level, the have dealt with it rather well. As far as i can understand.

Nevertheless - the social issues the Democrats have not dealt with, and that was one of the major reasons people did not vote for the democrats. TRT has dealt with the social issues far better, and not too bad with economical issues either. And that is one of the major reasons people not just voted for TRT again, but have also voted for PPP in 2007.

And so far, the Democrats continue to blame Thaksin for the own failure of initiating proper policies for the more disadvantages sectors of society.

As to the details of his conviction, they were slightly shady, to say the least. Land that was bought over the price the Chuan government has fixed, from an agency that was declared for the sake of the judgement as state agency, wich though in a previous case was declared a private entity, and therefore exempt from the law that forbids politicians to buy assets from state agencies.

Why Thaksin is not welcome in many countries is a slight bit more complex that simple partisanship with the present government of Thailand.

The stuff that could have given a clear conviction against Thaksin has never really made it to the courts, and most likely won't either in the foreseeable future. There are reasons for this.

And i am still waiting for a comment from you on the rather undemocratic issues i have pointed out, such as the use of the Blue Shirt in Pattaya. I presume that i wouldn't here the end of it if that would have been Thaksin who would have used these thugs...

Many do wrestle with these "Truth's and Fact's" ever since, we will make it very simple:

1.) Did he take advantage of his position in this deal - Yes or No?

2.) Did his wife (them) therefor make a very neat profit - Yes/No?

3.) Was the bidding process transparent - Ye/No?

4.) Did his wife DO end up the owner of this piece of pie in the center of the city - Yes/No?

5.) Was the bidding price below it's value at the time - Yes/No?

5.) Can this be judged as "abuse of power" - Yes/No?

Can you prove the Opposite?

If so you may be in the position to prove to any court that Mr.Thaksin has been dealt

unjust - if not it would be contempt of Court an offense in Thailand and would make your position and motives highly questionable!

The next question that evolves immediately - why does MR.Thaksin doesn't fight this himself but prefers to hide in exile -

and from there keeps stirring all kinds of political upheaval and unrest - is this fair play?

Why the "petition" then?

If he is "innocent" why he doesn't come back and proves it?

International press some independent observers - should suffice - his money could by it all!

Why not?

Maybe because where there is smoke there is fire?

Why he "quits" politics one day and engages fiercely the next?

The songkran Incident was one bad example what this man can turn to if things don't go his way,

so these day;s we got this Sound File... yep it's the PM's voice... but and then the "accidental" employee" of a Shin.Company,

"accidentally" got this Sound file by "some lady at a bus stop"... one of the typical stories in this entire affair...

Remember the "Japanese war chest" supposedly hidden in a cave in Kan-Province?

by the way.. using manufactured, unfounded accusations such as:

Our discussion should not be derailed by a my comment of a poster not having a clue about what he talks about. And i am sorry, as soon as someone states that the PAD had no massive military support he disqualifies himself from any rational discussion/..

I have the impression that "i am sorry" is degraded to a simple phrase to add some dramatic.....

with the aim to give ones own argument a better foundation is one of the simplest tactics in arguing a case, it's

"argumentum ad hominem" - the arguments core is aimed at the person NOT at the subject!

Using this sort of polemic to make a point is tactical rhetoric, but the alert observer finds the grist in the mill and

drwas his/her own conclusions about who is right and who is wrong!

Edited September 6, 2009 by Samuian

[SHYTALK]

Your critique of the Democrat Party is nonetheless well taken. To bring some balance to your perspective consider also that the Chuan government was being stared at by a Baht that had gone from 25 to the USD to 55. The Abhisit government is having to deal with a meglomaniac (real, not a symbol) and his 'do or die' maladies coupled by the similar behavioural disorders of his supporters in the Kingdom.

Those who do not accept that Thaksin was convicted of a crime in open court in Thailand also do not accept the legitimacy of the Thai Judiciary and fairly can be considered by extension as also likely to have a disregard of all legitimate authority in the Kingdom.

Thaksin is unwelcome in democracies because democratic governments do recognize the legitimacy of the Thai courts, the laws of Thailand and Thai sovereignty. Leaders of democracies throughout the world are not organizing or holding symposia to figure a way to get Thaksin back into the government of Thailand.

So take a clue.

But do democratic governments recognise the legitimacy of military coups and illegal airport occupation terrorism.

Is open court verdict against a backdrop of military coup and junta appointed judiciary legitimately recognised in democratically governed countries.

I dont see democratic governments adopting this model, do you?

Thailand-legitimate authority?, the country is corrupt from top to bottom.

That is why thailand has 3rd world status and falling fast.

Before colonel gadaffi was unwelcome, now he is faited.

Give us a clue.

[SHYTALK]

HISTORY SHOWS

General/King Taksin was put in a silk sack and beaten to death with sticks...

why are you writing about "taksin"?

History shows that

Thaksin Shinawatra wone 2 elections and tried a 3rd snap election that was annulled

and he was only care taker acting PM at the time of the coup.

History also shows that

Abhisit was elected by a Majority of Ministers Of Parliament,

after PTP party was unable to form a working coalition government.

Under Thai law it is 100% legitimate.

Where you get the idea PAD and the military get along, I have no clue,

since most of the Sondhi assignation attempt investigation points AT the military...

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda attempts.

Who knows your motives?

Who cares.

Keep at it you will eventually convince yourself, but you will never change historical facts.

Just as Margaret thatcher won three peoples elections, and Tony Blair won three peoples elections, also taksin won three peoples elections.

And abisit.........

probably saying to himself " <deleted> am I doing here"

[SHYTALK]

Essentially those army units were saying we don't support Thaksin.

Drawing a line in the sand. And letting HIS factions know they are not welcome.

Never made them big PAD members. Just that PAD had some usefulness for a spell.

PAD was just the spear point to route out and expose his machinations.

The barking dog in the night. No one really expected or expects much shelf life from them.

Try telling them that

[animatic]

Your critique of the Democrat Party is nonetheless well taken. To bring some balance to your perspective consider also that the Chuan government was being stared at by a Baht that had gone from 25 to the USD to 55. The Abhisit government is having to deal with a meglomaniac (real, not a symbol) and his 'do or die' maladies coupled by the similar behavioural disorders of his supporters in the Kingdom.

Those who do not accept that Thaksin was convicted of a crime in open court in Thailand also do not accept the legitimacy of the Thai Judiciary and fairly can be considered by extension as also likely to have a disregard of all legitimate authority in the Kingdom.

Thaksin is unwelcome in democracies because democratic governments do recognize the legitimacy of the Thai courts, the laws of Thailand and Thai sovereignty. Leaders of democracies throughout the world are not organizing or holding symposia to figure a way to get Thaksin back into the government of Thailand.

So take a clue.

But do democratic governments recognise the legitimacy of military coups and illegal airport occupation terrorism.

Is open court verdict against a backdrop of military coup and junta appointed judiciary legitimately recognised in democratically governed countries.

I dont see democratic governments adopting this model, do you?

Thailand-legitimate authority?, the country is corrupt from top to bottom.

That is why thailand has 3rd world status and falling fast.

Before colonel gadaffi was unwelcome, now he is faited.

Give us a clue.

No, the worlds democratic governments acknowledge Abhisit and the Democrats

are the legitimate government of Thailand after an election of MP's to Parliament.

A coallition is in place and governing.

What went on BEFORE the election is then rendered moot.

Except to the losing side, who will howl till the pigs fly home.

Edited September 6, 2009 by animatic

[animatic]

HISTORY SHOWS

General/King Taksin was put in a silk sack and beaten to death with sticks...

why are you writing about "taksin"?

History shows that

Thaksin Shinawatra wone 2 elections and tried a 3rd snap election that was annulled

and he was only care taker acting PM at the time of the coup.

History also shows that

Abhisit was elected by a Majority of Ministers Of Parliament,

after PTP party was unable to form a working coalition government.

Under Thai law it is 100% legitimate.

Where you get the idea PAD and the military get along, I have no clue,

since most of the Sondhi assignation attempt investigation points AT the military...

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda attempts.

Who knows your motives?

Who cares.

Keep at it you will eventually convince yourself, but you will never change historical facts.

Just as Margaret thatcher won three peoples elections, and Tony Blair won three peoples elections, also taksin won three peoples elections.

And abisit.........

probably saying to himself " <deleted> am I doing here"

FACT. Thaksin won two and no more.

An annulled election is no election.

No matter how many Ad hominum attacks that you rack up,

it adds up to zeros on your tally sheet. It just shows the obfuscations at work.

Edited September 6, 2009 by animatic

[Rumfoord]

I have no clue,

You have made that painfully clear.

To put my quote back in context,

and not in your flaming cherry picked lack of context.

...

Seems discourse with you must be made painful,

that speak's volumes about your attitude.

I also thought that out-of-context quote was way off-side myself.

i thought it was funny, extremely tongue-in-cheek, ironic and so true.

and honestly, do you read what Animatoc writes here all day?

[animatic]

You have made that painfully clear.

To put my quote back in context,

and not in your flaming cherry picked lack of context.

...

Seems discourse with you must be made painful,

that speak's volumes about your attitude.

I also thought that out-of-context quote was way off-side myself.

i thought it was funny, extremely tongue-in-cheek, ironic and so true.

and honestly, do you read what Animatoc writes here all day?

LOL, seems YOU do.

Or the mis-quoting just suited your;

shoot the messenger, argument ad hominum, style.

Which fits the boss's request to stifle dissenting voices.

[SHYTALK]

Your critique of the Democrat Party is nonetheless well taken. To bring some balance to your perspective consider also that the Chuan government was being stared at by a Baht that had gone from 25 to the USD to 55. The Abhisit government is having to deal with a meglomaniac (real, not a symbol) and his 'do or die' maladies coupled by the similar behavioural disorders of his supporters in the Kingdom.

Those who do not accept that Thaksin was convicted of a crime in open court in Thailand also do not accept the legitimacy of the Thai Judiciary and fairly can be considered by extension as also likely to have a disregard of all legitimate authority in the Kingdom.

Thaksin is unwelcome in democracies because democratic governments do recognize the legitimacy of the Thai courts, the laws of Thailand and Thai sovereignty. Leaders of democracies throughout the world are not organizing or holding symposia to figure a way to get Thaksin back into the government of Thailand.

So take a clue.

But do democratic governments recognise the legitimacy of military coups and illegal airport occupation terrorism.

Is open court verdict against a backdrop of military coup and junta appointed judiciary legitimately recognised in democratically governed countries.

I dont see democratic governments adopting this model, do you?

Thailand-legitimate authority?, the country is corrupt from top to bottom.

That is why thailand has 3rd world status and falling fast.

Before colonel gadaffi was unwelcome, now he is faited.

Give us a clue.

No, the worlds democratic governments acknowledge Abhisit and the Democrats

are the legitimate government of Thailand after an election of MP's to Parliament.

A coallition is in place and governing.

What went on BEFORE the election is then rendered moot.

Except to the losing side, who will howl till the pigs fly home.

The worlds democratic governments recognised Taksin and TRT/PPT after 3 consecutive election victories.

Military coups , junta appointed judiciary and their illegitimate offspring are not embraced by democratic governments.

Democracy will prevail and burma will lose its role model.

[SHYTALK]

HISTORY SHOWS

General/King Taksin was put in a silk sack and beaten to death with sticks...

why are you writing about "taksin"?

History shows that

Thaksin Shinawatra wone 2 elections and tried a 3rd snap election that was annulled

and he was only care taker acting PM at the time of the coup.

History also shows that

Abhisit was elected by a Majority of Ministers Of Parliament,

after PTP party was unable to form a working coalition government.

Under Thai law it is 100% legitimate.

Where you get the idea PAD and the military get along, I have no clue,

since most of the Sondhi assignation attempt investigation points AT the military...

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda attempts.

Who knows your motives?

Who cares.

Keep at it you will eventually convince yourself, but you will never change historical facts.

Just as Margaret thatcher won three peoples elections, and Tony Blair won three peoples elections, also taksin won three peoples elections.

And abisit.........

probably saying to himself " <deleted> am I doing here"

FACT. Thaksin won two and no more.

An annulled election is no election.

No matter how many Ad hominum attacks that you rack up,

it adds up to zeros on your tally sheet. It just shows the obfuscations at work.

Interesting you diss-associate the PTP election victory from Taksin.

So the people voted for the PTP and not for Taksin.

Taksin out of the equation , your beef roasted.

Poor abi, in his time in england and living through margaret thatchers three election victories, and tony blairs three election victories, he must of dreamt of the thai people sweeping their hero to election victory.

Well they did, also 3 times, but alas twas not poor abi,the goons dummy ; but a real peoples own hat trick hero.

So who holds the duck egg.

abi abi whats the score, abi whats the score.

BTW leave out the big words untill you can compose a few decent sentences.

[SHYTALK]

The dark forces of thailand who want to impose the fines and prison sentances.

Are these the same dark forces of thailand who deny the people an election and the democratic right to express their opinion of the military coup.

[Plus]

The party dissolution came through a coup introduced law. The '97 constitution said nothing about party dissolution in such a case.

You are mistaken here.

TRT dissolution was the punishment recommended by the very first investigating panel appointed by the EC, it was in May 2006, long before the coup.

[Plus]

As to the details of his conviction, they were slightly shady, to say the least. Land that was bought over the price the Chuan government has fixed, from an agency that was declared for the sake of the judgement as state agency, wich though in a previous case was declared a private entity, and therefore exempt from the law that forbids politicians to buy assets from state agencies.

1. Thai courts are NOT obliged to follow precedents

2. That previous case was about trying to get the govt to repay FIDF debts

3. The point of whether FIDF was a state agency covered by this specific article under which Thaksin was tried was decided with overwhelming majority whereas the conviction itself was 5-4 split.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Plus

[animatic]

HISTORY SHOWS

General/King Taksin was put in a silk sack and beaten to death with sticks...

why are you writing about "taksin"?

History shows that

Thaksin Shinawatra wone 2 elections and tried a 3rd snap election that was annulled

and he was only care taker acting PM at the time of the coup.

History also shows that

Abhisit was elected by a Majority of Ministers Of Parliament,

after PTP party was unable to form a working coalition government.

Under Thai law it is 100% legitimate.

Where you get the idea PAD and the military get along, I have no clue,

since most of the Sondhi assignation attempt investigation points AT the military...

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your propaganda attempts.

Who knows your motives?

Who cares.

Keep at it you will eventually convince yourself, but you will never change historical facts.

Just as Margaret thatcher won three peoples elections, and Tony Blair won three peoples elections, also taksin won three peoples elections.

And abisit.........

probably saying to himself " <deleted> am I doing here"

FACT. Thaksin won two and no more.

An annulled election is no election.

No matter how many Ad hominum attacks that you rack up,

it adds up to zeros on your tally sheet. It just shows the obfuscations at work.

Interesting you diss-associate the PTP election victory from Taksin.

So the people voted for the PTP and not for Taksin.

Taksin out of the equation , your beef roasted.

Poor abi, in his time in england and living through margaret thatchers three election victories, and tony blairs three election victories, he must of dreamt of the thai people sweeping their hero to election victory.

Well they did, also 3 times, but alas twas not poor abi,the goons dummy ; but a real peoples own hat trick hero.

So who holds the duck egg.

abi abi whats the score, abi whats the score.

BTW leave out the big words untill you can compose a few decent sentences.

Thaksin won TWO elections, that attempted 3rd election was annulled... try and grasp that fact.

Let's not forget the jailed Election Commission.

The following one TRT was dissolved, because it could NOT win enough seats

to get 20% running unopposed, so paid for little parties to run rather than a serious opponent

like the Dems. TRT got caught redhanded and dissolved. Again Thaksin did not win. Try to grasp that....

They also tried to say the same about the Dems, tit for tat, but it wasn't believed.

PTP only participated in a handful of By Elections, in hardcore Thaksinland constituencies.

So you can't say that they have won more than a seat or 3. And you can't argue that Thaksin

was taken out of the equation because Thaksin was being SOLD by PTP as their product

to get their few candidates elected. This was clear and obvious to all. Chalerm said as much.

Thaksin may have appeared to win with Proxy PPP, but they also cheated and wer caught,

and THAT election was in effect annulled for several Thaksin supporting MP's, hence by elections.

Those by elections did NOT go as much in their favor, since cheating was MUCH harder,

as more eyes were focused that way.

Most of the MP's still kept their seats, but another 'sub-election' that for PM by the lower house

was ALSO LOST by Thaksin backers, who couldn't hold a coalition together enough to form a government.

So yet another loss by Thaksin and company.

The nations of the world have equally acknowledged these Thaksin proxy party loses,

and so recognize unequivocally the Abhisit government.,

[animatic]

The party dissolution came through a coup introduced law. The '97 constitution said nothing about party dissolution in such a case.

You are mistaken here.

TRT dissolution was the punishment recommended by the very first investigating panel appointed by the EC, it was in May 2006, long before the coup.

Exactly.

Thanks Plus for finding facts.

Gee Pre-Coup wasn't Thaksin head of government then...

Actually more proto-dictator with only a 'committee / lame duck cabinet',

surrounding him, and no upper or lower houses.

Looks like he forgot to buy the election commission enough before hand.

Counter-propaganda 101: ~Tell the facts clearly and often.