Ko Phangan

[DavidUK21]

How do you pronounce this please?

Koh Phan-gan or Kho Pha-ngan?

[katana]

GAW (short, low), PHA-NGAN เกาะพงัน.

Edited March 13, 2005 by katana

[RDN]

Very tricky! In Thai, Koh Phangan is เกาะ พะงัน

The first word, เกาะ is "island", pronounced "goh" (think of "golly" and remove the "lly"). The three characters เ_าะ produce the "o" sound, and the ก is the "g" consonant.

The second word, พะงัน is "Pha Ngan", pronounced "pa" (like English for "father") and then "ngan" (say "sing and dance", then omit the "si" at the front and the "d dance" at the end).

That's as good as I can explain it!

[Neeranam]

How do you pronounce this please?

Koh Phan-gan or Kho Pha-ngan?

Something that I used to wonder about on my visit there in 93 for 6 weeks, a great place.

Most foreigners say ko Pan ngan or ko Pan gan.

It is Go Pa Ngan

[Edward B]

This is something that interests me. The question of how to pronounce foreign places and names. Take the island-province Phuket as an example. Now Thais would pronounce this as Phoo-Get, all mid tone hard 'P' to start and hard 'G' in the middle. Listen to 99% of foreigners say this and you would hear Foo-Khet. I even hear English newsreaders say it this way.

Now, as a foreigner, when talking to a native Thai, you should use the first pronunciation (Phoo-Get), since that's the way they say it. However, if you say it this way to a foreign tourist, they might not understand you at all. You could try to explain that 'Phoo-Get' is the correct way to pronounce it, but they would probably just laugh in your face and say "But everyone says 'Foo-Khet'".

So, do you go along with all your buddies and mispronounce every Thai place name, or do you correct them, with the risk of being perceived as a 'know-it-all'?

Edited March 14, 2005 by Edward B

[Bobcat]

So, do you go along with all your buddies and mispronounce every Thai place name, or do you correct them, with the risk of being perceived as a 'know-it-all'?

People generally do not like being corrected. What I do is simply pronounce it correctly without feeling the need to correct anyone else's pronunciation. If they ask you (or make fun on you - are here really people who do that sort of thing?), you can tell them that this is how your Thai teacher taught you to pronounce the word.

Bob

[meadish_sweetball]

So, do you go along with all your buddies and mispronounce every Thai place name, or do you correct them, with the risk of being perceived as a 'know-it-all'?

People generally do not like being corrected. What I do is simply pronounce it correctly without feeling the need to correct anyone else's pronunciation. If they ask you (or make fun on you - are here really people who do that sort of thing?), you can tell them that this is how your Thai teacher taught you to pronounce the word.

Bob

I pronounce most names as in Thai without overexaggerating the pronunciation. If I see blank stares I qualify it by saying it mispronounced.

It is more of a problem with English speakers than with Swedish speakers as the romanization of place names in Thailand is closer to the Swedish, Spanish or Italian spelling system than the English one.

[DavidUK21]

Thanks a lot, all.

someone says its pronounced as 'Phan-ghaan' in the local dialect there. anyone know anything about that?

cheers

[sbk]

local dialect is Koh Ngan. Samui is Koh Mui.

It is also worth pointing out that the correct pronunciation is indeed Goh but the Goh is quick and short , same with the Pha.

Edited March 14, 2005 by sbk

[DavidUK21]

thanks very much

[meadish_sweetball]

local dialect is Koh Ngan. Samui is Koh Mui.

It is also worth pointing out that the correct pronunciation is indeed Goh but the Goh is quick and short , same with the Pha.

Sbk - very important points about syllable length - there is actually no way to accurately describe the shortness of Thai syllables such as these in English spelling.

Also, there is no Latin letter sign for the final glottal stop in the syllable (glottal stop is the same "non-sound" as Cockneys make instead of "t" when they say "water" and "bottle". It is produced by closing your glottis.

If you pronounce "Goh" as the interjection "Oh!" you are off the mark. Especially with Southern English dialects. I think "gaw" (pronounced shortly and abruptly) might be the best way to write it.

[bannork]

local dialect is Koh Ngan. Samui is Koh Mui.

It is also worth pointing out that the correct pronunciation is indeed Goh but the Goh is quick and short , same with the Pha.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sbk - very important points about syllable length - there is actually no way to accurately describe the shortness of Thai syllables such as these in English spelling.

Also, there is no Latin letter sign for the final glottal stop in the syllable (glottal stop is the same "non-sound" as Cockneys make instead of "t" when they say "water" and "bottle". It is produced by closing your glottis.

If you pronounce "Goh" as the interjection "Oh!" you are off the mark. Especially with Southern English dialects. I think "gaw" (pronounced shortly and abruptly) might be the best way to write it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only way to go, as you know M.S., is to be able to read Thai, the use of English spelling for Thai words is a quagmire from which no-one gets out alive, to quote the great late Jim Morrison. 'gaw' still has the 'aw' sound, however short, a closer rendition might be 'got' with the 't' removed.

T.A.T. should offer free visas to those who can read Thai geographical names as an incentive to reduce misunderstandings and confusion.

bannork

[RDN]

....  a closer rendition might be 'got' with the 't' removed....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...pronounced  "goh" (think of "golly" and remove the "lly")....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Richard W]

Also, there is no Latin letter sign for the final glottal stop in the syllable (glottal stop is the same "non-sound" as Cockneys make instead of "t" when they say "water" and "bottle". It is produced by closing your glottis.

Well technically, there is the Latin letter glottal stop, U+0294, 'ʔ'.

If you pronounce "Goh" as the interjection "Oh!" you are off the mark. Especially with Southern English dialects. I think "gaw" (pronounced shortly and abruptly) might be the best way to write it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is that we've agreed to use 'o' for the middle vowel as in กบ 'frog'. More seriously, an apostrope after a short vowel does a very good job in informal transcriptions. Perhaps we should adopt [L]gor' / [L]kor' / [L]gaw' / [L]gaw' rather than using [LS]gor / [LS]kor / [LS]gaw / [LS]gaw.

[sbk]

I didn't mean to say that it is pronounced with the glottal stop at the beginning of Koh, but at the end. Same with Pha. the glottal stop is at the end of the word. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Boon Mee]

Well, no matter how the farang prounounces it, their rendition will not be the accurate southern Thai prouncation I suspect?

[bannork]

Well, no matter how the farang prounounces it, their rendition will not be the accurate southern Thai prouncation I suspect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right there Boon Mee, anyone who prounounces a word is bound to find his or her prouncation well off key.

[booma]

How do you pronounce this please?

Koh Phan-gan or Kho Pha-ngan?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can never get this right, It's the ngan thing at the end.

I'm looking forward to my sixth visit soon!

Edited March 15, 2005 by booma

[sbk]

Well, no matter how the farang prounounces it, their rendition will not be the accurate southern Thai prouncation I suspect?

You're right there Boon Mee, anyone who prounounces a word is bound to find his or her prouncation well off key.

I don't know about that, I have an excellent southern accent and a good friend of mine who lived here for many years was the same. Her vocabulary was much larger than mine tho, I am a bit lazy.

But it isn't too hard, really. Just make sure you shorten all the words to one syllable, then draw that syllable out a bit, and add "uh" on the end. You will sound like a southerner then.

[RDN]

....I don't know about that, I have an excellent southern accent and a good friend of mine who lived here for many years  was the same....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rang up about a house for rent in Phuket. The woman who answered spoke Thai, so I gave the phone to my g/f. My g/f couldn't understand her - the woman spoke "south" (as my g/f calls it) and couldn't speak any central Thai at all. Had to hang up - no communication possible!

[Boon Mee]

Well, no matter how the farang prounounces it, their rendition will not be the accurate southern Thai prouncation I suspect?

You're right there Boon Mee, anyone who prounounces a word is bound to find his or her prouncation well off key.

I don't know about that, I have an excellent southern accent and a good friend of mine who lived here for many years was the same. Her vocabulary was much larger than mine tho, I am a bit lazy.

But it isn't too hard, really. Just make sure you shorten all the words to one syllable, then draw that syllable out a bit, and add "uh" on the end. You will sound like a southerner then.

If you speak like a southerner sbk, do you throw in a few "Y'alls" too?

[bannork]

Well, no matter how the farang prounounces it, their rendition will not be the accurate southern Thai prouncation I suspect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right there Boon Mee, anyone who prounounces a word is bound to find his or her prouncation well off key.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about that, I have an excellent southern accent and a good friend of mine who lived here for many years was the same. Her vocabulary was much larger than mine tho, I am a bit lazy.

But it isn't too hard, really. Just make sure you shorten all the words to one syllable, then draw that syllable out a bit, and add "uh" on the end. You will sound like a southerner then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry B.M., I was just making fun of your spelling, typical dry british middle class humour.

bannork.

[sbk]

Looks like a typo to me, bannork. Always give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to spelling, we all make typos sometimes (and don't always check either).

And no, Boon Mee, southern Thais don't have "y'all", in fact, they tend not to use any personal pronouns whatsoever! I think you are just supposed to guess who they are talking to/about

RDN, suspect your potential landlady was older. Most younger people speak some central. My husband's is terrible, his english is much better than his central Thai (he hardly ever uses central Thai, uses english far more) but he is unusual and he can speak it if forced to, while his mother doesn't speak it at all.

[Boon Mee]

Well, no matter how the farang prounounces it, their rendition will not be the accurate southern Thai prouncation I suspect?

You're right there Boon Mee, anyone who prounounces a word is bound to find his or her prouncation well off key.

I don't know about that, I have an excellent southern accent and a good friend of mine who lived here for many years was the same. Her vocabulary was much larger than mine tho, I am a bit lazy.

But it isn't too hard, really. Just make sure you shorten all the words to one syllable, then draw that syllable out a bit, and add "uh" on the end. You will sound like a southerner then.

typical dry british middle class humour.

bannork.

As opposed to the upper-class "Public School" variety?

No offense taken, bannork.

[~G~]

... 99% of foreigners say this and you would hear Foo-Khet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Understandable mistake for those who did not encounter thai transcript into english, to prounounce the "ph" as "f". I actually didn't hear many foreigners say "fookhet" but did hear some say "ko fee fee".

An interesting fact is that even once corrected many people find it difficult to let go of the way they think it should be pronounced.