Ngv Vs. Gas

[givenall]

I am considering to change my CRV from gas to NGV. Can anyone explain to me if this is cost effective. I have to pay about 150K Bth to change the system. Also what is the effective millage per one NGV unit?

For gas I get average of 12 Kilometer per litter

[aussiebebe]

It's very difficult to calculate: NGV is sold in Bangkok for 8.5baht per Kilogram, which is equal to about 1.5litres of Gas in heating values. You'd need to compare the energy content of NGV and Gas to work out how much NGV costs for the equivalent amount of gas. I don't know these values for fuel sold in Bangkok, I'd guess that NGV costs the equivalent Gas price of 5.5baht per litre.

To answer your question, you'd need to know the cost per litre for the gas you're using, what type is it? and how much do you drive every month?

For your CRV getting 12km/litre, one KG of NGV might take you 15-16km, it depends on the quality and efficiency of the CNG conversion and the weight of the CNG tank you choose. Energy efficiency of the two fuels is roughly equivalent.

To guage whether CNG conversion was cost-effective, you'd need to calculate how long it will take to recoup your conversion costs of 150,000baht from your fuel savings? I'd estimate several years at least, only after which point you'd actually start saving any money.

An accurate estimation is very hard: all fuel prices are volatile and it was only last year that a litre of Gasohol was 16baht.

*you'll have to start your car running on gas each time before switching over;

*the filling nozzle will likely be under the hood (which wastes time),

*you'll probably run out of CNG often and not find a filling station, so you'll continue to use gas then,

*you'll loose valuable space inside the CRV (probably one of the reasons you bought the car)

*and a CNG conversion will invalidate any pre-existing warranty - how do you calculate the potential cost of that?

[givenall]

It's very difficult to calculate: NGV is sold in Bangkok for 8.5baht per Kilogram, which is equal to about 1.5litres of Gas in heating values. You'd need to compare the energy content of NGV and Gas to work out how much NGV costs for the equivalent amount of gas. I don't know these values for fuel sold in Bangkok, I'd guess that NGV costs the equivalent Gas price of 5.5baht per litre.

To answer your question, you'd need to know the cost per litre for the gas you're using, what type is it? and how much do you drive every month?

For your CRV getting 12km/litre, one KG of NGV might take you 15-16km, it depends on the quality and efficiency of the CNG conversion and the weight of the CNG tank you choose. Energy efficiency of the two fuels is roughly equivalent.

To guage whether CNG conversion was cost-effective, you'd need to calculate how long it will take to recoup your conversion costs of 150,000baht from your fuel savings? I'd estimate several years at least, only after which point you'd actually start saving any money.

An accurate estimation is very hard: all fuel prices are volatile and it was only last year that a litre of Gasohol was 16baht.

*you'll have to start your car running on gas each time before switching over;

*the filling nozzle will likely be under the hood (which wastes time),

*you'll probably run out of CNG often and not find a filling station, so you'll continue to use gas then,

*you'll loose valuable space inside the CRV (probably one of the reasons you bought the car)

*and a CNG conversion will invalidate any pre-existing warranty - how do you calculate the potential cost of that?

aussiebebe,

Appreciate your response. Now I have much better idea what I need to do

[katabeachbum]

It's very difficult to calculate: NGV is sold in Bangkok for 8.5baht per Kilogram, which is equal to about 1.5litres of Gas in heating values. You'd need to compare the energy content of NGV and Gas to work out how much NGV costs for the equivalent amount of gas. I don't know these values for fuel sold in Bangkok, I'd guess that NGV costs the equivalent Gas price of 5.5baht per litre.

To answer your question, you'd need to know the cost per litre for the gas you're using, what type is it? and how much do you drive every month?

For your CRV getting 12km/litre, one KG of NGV might take you 15-16km, it depends on the quality and efficiency of the CNG conversion and the weight of the CNG tank you choose. Energy efficiency of the two fuels is roughly equivalent.

To guage whether CNG conversion was cost-effective, you'd need to calculate how long it will take to recoup your conversion costs of 150,000baht from your fuel savings? I'd estimate several years at least, only after which point you'd actually start saving any money.

An accurate estimation is very hard: all fuel prices are volatile and it was only last year that a litre of Gasohol was 16baht.

*you'll have to start your car running on gas each time before switching over;

*the filling nozzle will likely be under the hood (which wastes time),

*you'll probably run out of CNG often and not find a filling station, so you'll continue to use gas then,

*you'll loose valuable space inside the CRV (probably one of the reasons you bought the car)

*and a CNG conversion will invalidate any pre-existing warranty - how do you calculate the potential cost of that?

aussiebebe,

Appreciate your response. Now I have much better idea what I need to do

Most important in your calculation is your milage a year. Below 40.000 km/year I see no saving.

Even when CNG fitted, expect to run at least 20-30% gas, cause CNG range will be 150-200 km for your CRV, and CNG pumps frequently are out of CNG.

The Chevy Colorado pickup which comes with factory fitted CNG at approx 120.000 baht, has break even at 160.000 km. Do you intend to keep your CRV that long, and does your engine run that long on CNG?

[Gary A]

I would never spend 150,000 baht to change to a system that is less convenient and that will never give a payback.

[rixalex]

150,000 seems an awful lot. Is that the norm? I see a lot of "cheap" old bangers about that have recently had NGV fitted and i can't believe the owner would either have the money or the inclination to invest that sort of sum. LPG conversion i believe is about 30,000 baht. I assumed NGV was around that sort of figure too.

[givenall]

150,000 seems an awful lot. Is that the norm? I see a lot of "cheap" old bangers about that have recently had NGV fitted and i can't believe the owner would either have the money or the inclination to invest that sort of sum. LPG conversion i believe is about 30,000 baht. I assumed NGV was around that sort of figure too.

After all the information I got (Thanks) I have decided not to convert, but if anyone is planning to convert, I recommend a repeatable garage since I have seen many cars on fire with very poor and cheap conversion. May be that is why it cost 100 to 150k for a proper conversion

[rixalex]

I have seen many cars on fire with very poor and cheap conversion.

Really? When and where?

I only ask because i'm on the road every day and haven't seen one.

[givenall]

I have seen many cars on fire with very poor and cheap conversion.

Really? When and where?

I only ask because i'm on the road every day and haven't seen one.

Also it has been a while, while back I saw couple taxies while I was going hot to rangsit and one time I saw a bus on fire when it was refueling, luckily no passengers

[BSJ]

You have to look at the calorific value of the fuel to get some idea if it is worth the investment. If your vehicle will use more units of gas to travel the same distance, is the cost saving covering the original outlay?

For example my Jeep costs Au$75 to fill with gasoline which will take me 380km. If I fill the LPG tank it's AU$29 but I will only get 330km out of it. Is there a saving? Yes.

Will the saving cover my initial cost of installing the gas kit? Yes. Will take a year without claiming the government rebate on the install. But after that it's 35 bucks a week in my pocket!

[Plus]

Ever thought of converting to LPG instead of NGV?

Expect to pay about a third or at most a half of you current gas expenses, and the installation cost under 40k (with injector heads), so it will recoup itself pretty fast.

Trying to save 150k on gas to recoup NGV installation is a tall order. How much do you spend on fuel anyway?

[monty]

LPG at the moment is the way to go, however one big caveat is that the subsidy of the LPG price will end sometime in the future.

They have been postponing this for some time now. Not sure when it will happen.

Expect the price of LPG to go up to about 16-17 Baht per liter from the current 11 Baht.

But then, CNG is subsidized as well! Think the unsubsidized price would be around 13 Baht instead of the current 8.5 Baht per kg