Should I Or Shouldn't I?

[ianwuk]

Basically here is my situation.

I am 25, nearly 26, British, with no degree although I do have a work permit. Anyway. I have not been back home for nearly two years and always get homesick around Christmas (pathetic, right?). My girlfriend is pushing me to get a degree and better myself but I am the kind of person who when pushed too much to do something will do the exact opposite (meaning that I'd get on the first plane back). I know that if I was to go back home that there would not be much there for me.

I want to get a degree from Sheffield Hallam in the UK who offer a one year HND Top-Up (does anyone know if this exists in Thailand?) but I am not sure if I can cope with working and studying. Should I get my degree? Has anyone had any experience of studying long distance whilst working in Thailand? If so, how was it? I am thinking that I need to get a second weekend teaching job so that I can save up enough money for my degree.

Is it right for my girlfriend to push me to do this? Should I accept it (being pushed) and try my best knowing that in the long run it will be better for me?

Thanks for your input.

Ian

[bkkjames]

Ian, I cant tell you what to do but I can tell you what I would do.

1. Make my own decision.

2. Be wary of people pushing me to do anything you are unsure about

3. Just because it seems to me an obsession (getting degrees) here, doesn't mean I have to follow sheepishly - at my age - I know what I do and do not want.

Give it time and you will arrive at the right decision for yourself.

[dttk0009]

Hi Ian,

It's not pathetic at all to be homesick around Christmas time, especially because that time is meant for family and friends to be together. Your girlfriend probably believes that you require a degree to get into a career that can go places, and she's partially right, unless you get lucky or know the right people. The choice to get one is ultimately up to you, though in my opinion a degree is a very useful asset. You don't know how long you'll be teaching for, how long you'll be enjoying it for etc. You need a back up plan for when this job falls through or you want to switch up your life. I did the working and studying here in Bangkok, and while it's tough at times, it's certainly manageable (Uni in Bangkok though, not overseas). How much money would you need to get a degree from overseas? Have you looked into some of the Thai Universities? They offer international programs these days, and it's much more affordable than their western counterparts.

Hope everything works out!

[Rionoir]

"25, nearly 26..."

Time to act like it buddy You're asking strangers to tell you whether or not you need a degree, what kind of life changing advice do you expect. LoL Kind of wonder what kind of mess you ran away from in the UK. And it's not surprising your GF wants you to get a degree - they are a bigger priority here. Abroad we can work and be respected without a degree... but... asians are snobby like that, even if you have a degree in a field unrelated to your job it is highly valued for purposes of face. *shrug* But this is your decision really...

[ianwuk]

Thanks for all the replies.

The reason I am choosing a UK University is because it seems to be the quickest. The last qualification I got was an HND in Computing and through this new course I can study an extra year to get a proper degree. Is an HND even recognised in Thailand and do Thai universities offer the same top-up scheme? The cost for this course is around 150,000 Baht in it's entirety.

Ian

[Ijustwannateach]

I don't know how your girlfriend is behaving, but whether she is using an appropriate type of persuasion or not, she does have your best interests in mind. These days it is getting more difficult (but not impossible) to stay in the middle-class without a degree, especially for a teacher. Also, when you have done it, you will feel a sense of accomplishment and pride which will help your self-esteem- even when you are doing it you will realise that you are doing something to benefit yourself and it will make you feel better about your work. I hope you will try for it.

[ianwuk]

Thanks for the advice Deep down I know that my girlfriend has my best interests at heart. I have just recently been in a funk and more lazier than the average Thai person and I need to get out of it because I usually can be quite determined but I do not know what to do. I am saving as much money as I can and really skimping to save for this degree and I am worried that if I try for my degree and I lose my job for whatever reason (I am not a teacher) then I would be stuffed. I am basically scared to commit to the future for fear of it being screwed up by factors out of my control because it has happened so many times before

I need a wake-up call to get myself into gear but I have no idea what that may be.

Thanks.

Ian

[mooncake]

Ask yourself this... what will you do with that degree?

Nowadays to be employable with a good pay, you need to have the right experiences and the related degree to go along with it.

If you already love what you’re doing, sure the related degree will help advancing your career better than without.

But if you want to switch a career, then think long and hard first on what do you like to see yourself in the next 5-10 yrs, and will that need the degree or not.

Why go back to school to get any degree, if you don’t know what to do with it, or what you want to do in life? It’s an expensive investment in both financially and times.

Only YOU can answer those questions.

Education, esp the higher learning is still the best investment anyone can do for themselves, generally.

Edited September 14, 2009 by mooncake

[DOOOTheGreat]

Live and learn

It is never too old to learn...

If you want to achieve your goal, Don't care those difficulty...

Because you will acquire much more..

Best wishes...

[ianwuk]

I don't know where I will see myself in 5 years but if I want to stay in Thailand or stay with my girlfriend then the degree will help. Nobody else in my family has ever got a degree so I would be the first to get one. I was planning to get my degree because it gives me a lot of stability and security. Is that not a good answer? This will actually be my third attempt at getting a degree as fate always intervened in the past to stop me. I also cannot help but think I would be more secure taking my degree in the UK than in Thailand because if I lose my job then my extension of stay visa also goes which gives me 7 days to leave Thailand, correct?

Thanks.

Ian

Edited September 14, 2009 by ianwuk

[miatai]

pace yourself and not pace yourself for your gf's sake. at the end of the day, since you say you are likely to do the opposite when pushed, then you you already have the nec essary wisdom to know yourself quite well already. follow your heart....not your gf's.

rightly said earlier by someone else here, your gf's intention is noble and warrant serious consideration.

[madjbs]

I also cannot help but think I would be more secure taking my degree in the UK than in Thailand because if I lose my job then my extension of stay visa also goes which gives me 7 days to leave Thailand, correct?

You could just get a new extension based on you doing a degree course.

[ianwuk]

I also cannot help but think I would be more secure taking my degree in the UK than in Thailand because if I lose my job then my extension of stay visa also goes which gives me 7 days to leave Thailand, correct?

You could just get a new extension based on you doing a degree course.

Surely not if I am studying with a UK university and not a Thai one?

Ian

[astral]

For this extension degree I am pretty sure you will need a UK university

but you may be able to do the study as an external student whilst you are still in Thailand.

IME bits of paper like degrees do help open doors, especially at your age,

but you have to make up your own mind.

e.g. Will the cost of study be worth it in the long run???

[ianwuk]

Right now it is the cost that is putting me off. Plus the fact that I am saving up for the course with a job that is not exactly secure so I am getting a second job. Ironically if I had a degree already I would not have any of these problems. At least not in Thailand. My girlfriend even said she wants me to get a degree as quickly as I can.

Thanks.

Ian

[Carmine6]

Looks like you've gotten some good advice here. Let me point out one other purpose of a degree - it is a screening tool for employers. Human resources people are no less lazy and risk averse than any other group of employees. To spend time on a candidate, it's a lot easier if some of the screening has been done for them in the form of degrees, certifications, prior job titles, prior companies worked for.

There are plenty of jobs that don't require a degree, but where it's just easier to advertise for a degree and not have to spend so much time screening applicants based on their job history.

Look at the unemployment stats on this graph of rates by education level in the US. Through June, the unemployment rate for high school diplomas is 10%, while for bachelor degree and higher it was less than 5%. It's the same for the last 2 months as well.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/06/...d-level-of.html

Edited September 14, 2009 by Carmine6

[lectito]

The requirements for visas and work permits here are regularly changing. Who knows what will be required in a one year or five years? If it were me, I'd prefer to play it safe, in case there is a possibility that (down the track) the Labour Office might decide to require a degree before they issue a work permit. But it is up to you to assess that likelihood, and decide whether you are planning to stay here for the long-term, or whether your time is intended more as a gap-year.

[ianwuk]

Thanks for the graph. That has definitely made me think.

Ian

[richard_smith237]

Ian, Are you sure a Higher National Diploma top up to a degree is only a year ?

I've always assumed than an HND would count only as your 1st degree year and that you'd have to complete years 2 and 3.

[hhgz]

"My girlfriend is pushing me to get a degree and better myself..."

I don't think the degree is going to help.

[gvallee2]

just tell her as soon as you got your kindergarten degree you already had the equivalent of a thai masters degree

[anothertorres]

Basically here is my situation.

I am 25, nearly 26, British, with no degree although I do have a work permit. Anyway.

Ian. re-read yourself. what will you be asking yourself when you are 35?

[Svenn]

Hey Ian,

I'm 24 and will be getting a law degree in couple months from the U.S. It took 6 years to get here (three undergraduate, three in graduate school) and I STILL don't see any improved prospects for getting a desirable job in Thailand (though plenty in the U.S.). All I'm saying is, fancy degrees don't always translate into better job opportunities. Whatever degree you choose, make SURE it has concrete, specific jobs for you at the end of the tunnel, don't just get it for a status symbol (I'm thinking chinese-thais, no disrespect intended ) or other indefinite hopes. Degrees are very expensive (mine was a $120,000 USD). The older generations today don't realize this, they think the time still exists where you can wile your days away studying on a bench in some university garden for say $800 tuition a year, when in fact such days have long passed. good luck!

Edited September 14, 2009 by Svenn

[BusyB]

Try the Open University - www.open.ac.uk

You can get credits for things like your HND, although you'll have to contact them for details.

The OU has the great advantage that you can study in blocks, a year at a time. don't feel like it one year - don't bother. I took 8 years to get an honours degree I could have done  in 6, but I took a cuppla years off.

I did it for personal fun to begin with, to find out about a cuppla things I was interested in, but also to teach my rather chaotic mind how to analyse and organise thought and arguments. It far surpassed my wildest hopes in every respect. What kept me going at  one point was the desire to have a degree when I leave to work in Thailand - don't fancy grubbing around the bottom for illegal teaching jobs. Believe me, it's not an easy short cut to a degree, and you'll need some grit to get through it, but since you can pace yourself it should be possible. And the support from them is ace, from teaching materials through to tutors, tutorials and campus summer schools etc. It all seemed so daunting at the beginning of each year's course. By the end though I was surprised at what I'd learnt and could do. A truly positive experience. 

I have no idea what the costs are for you in your situation, if you're still officially resident in UK you'll qualify for tax relieved prices, if not, well it was certainly tax deductible for me where I live. It meant I got most of the costs back, but I am resident in Europe right now - don't know the Thai situation. 

Investigate it - it might be your solution.

And enjoy ...

[Dakhar]

Any degree that requires one year of effort is worthless. At 27 years old, you have a long road in front of you. The fact that you do not have a degreee will haunt you for your intire life.

If I were you, I would get to work ASAP. I wish you luck.

There are some legitmate colleges that give credits based on experience. I had one year "shaved" off of my bachelor degree due to my level of Chinese language. But I had to submit a lot of proof, documentation etc in order to do that, but it was worth it. But to find colleges that are willing to do this is rare, college is a business, so they really do not want to "give" away credits.

I would like to get a Physicians Assistant certificate (2 years) but I have yet to find a college that will grant me advanced placement, despite my doctorate degree in Audiology (speech/hearing/balance/communication sciences).

A PA earns about 70-90K USD and that is without a diploma, and an doctorate audiologist earns about 50-60K. (go figure)

A PA certificate will cost about 30-70K, and doctorate in Audiology, over 100K.

I guess another piece of advice is, study an area that has a good "school to pay ratio." (don't do what I did)

Dental Hygenist also make a killing for their amount of education....

Good luck to you and your girl friend.

[ianwuk]

Thanks for all your replies. I am going to enrol in 2010 and hopefully in 2011 I will have my degree. Now I will just work and save money

Ian

[Jamie]

Ian,

What are you looking to concentrate on with your degree? While having any degree is great, having a degree that has use is that much better (ie engineering).

While not always the case, it seems that having a undergraduate (bachelors) degree is the minimum you need these days. You may find out after completing your degree that you want to continue on.

Im in the process of finishing my first graduate degree and I am already applying for my second graduate degree in mine engineering.

[OxfordWill]

It's a sign of maturity to ask for advice, so ignore the people saying "time to act your age" etc. That's just nonsense.

As you have been advised- a degree is a screening tool. If you want to get a specific job then you should look for a specific qualification- for example being certified in an IT skills by a industry standard certifier, is more likely to land you the relevant IT job than having an IT degree.

One does not learn much doing a degree that is applicable to a specific vocation, with some notable exceptions. If you have no entrepeneurial spirit and are sure you will be a salaryman for life, and your employment interests do not lie with areas which have alternative, indsutry specific qualifications/certifications available, then a degree is a wise choice. If you are more into setting up your own business then a degree isnt going to help with that. If you are interested in, for example, programming, then a degree is not going to help you as fast as doing a specific code certification will.

Regarding the situation now, I have many friends who still cannot find adequate employment in the UK having graduated within last 3 years. Many skip from placement to placement continually either let go or unhappy with the pay. I have a friend with two degrees working in tescos, I kid you not. Hes a bit of a special case but nontheless..

As regards Thailand I have never heard or seen anything which suggests having a degree will help you get a job here. The one exception is the relatively new law about teachers required to have one. Really, and I cannot emphasise this enough, with the exception of the expat job packages which require massive experience in most cases (15-15 years), good jobs here are all about *who you know* and "who you meet*.

Edited September 15, 2009 by OxfordWill

[noise]

Thanks for the advice Deep down I know that my girlfriend has my best interests at heart. ....I usually can be quite determined .... I am saving as much money as I can and really skimping to save for this degree and I am worried that if I try for my degree and I lose my job for whatever reason (I am not a teacher)...... I am basically scared to commit to the future for fear of it being screwed up by factors out of my control because it has happened so many times before .......I need a wake-up call to get myself into gear but I have no idea what that may be.

Ian,

I would say you have gotten the wake up call and are just still in the throes of processing it mentally. You see your life being affect by events over which you have no control. But you say you are saving money for the degree which, to me, says you are trying to get to the point where you can be the one to expert control.

I tried 3 times to work and take night courses for a degree. The first two times I knew after one class I was not ready mentally and dropped out. The 3rd time I was. The point of that little story is I think that once you decide to do it, that you are ready (and you say you can be determined when you make you mind up), you will do it.

The best part is that your girl friend is pushing you. That is is the best of all possible worlds as working and studying takes up so much time that you need a dedicated significant other to put up with it. If you have no loving support, no happy home life, don't have someone that will fix a meal, let you eat, and then go back to studying....... you could still do it, but it won't be a happy, easy time. Even then, it will be hard but a determined person will persevere and find ways to try to keep the significant others as happy as possible. ....... I remember studying under a tree while envying my wife and young son having fun fishing in the pond.... It is not just your commitment to finish when you start, it will be her commitment to put up with you (and it sounds like that part is already there).

Good luck

EDIT: Ooops.... just read the rest of the posting and see that you already decided. Nevertheless, my comment about your girl friend still applies. You are really lucky to have her; she will make the hard work and long hours tolerable.

Edited September 15, 2009 by noise

[Meridian007]

Having a degree is becoming necessary here, even at the lower levels. While you can score a relatively good job in the west without a degree, here you need an undergrad to open the door, and a master's to make any form of decent cash. Thai's are very focused on degrees and the like because they are an instantly verifiable means to judge a person's status. So I agree with the posters who suggesting that you listen to your girlfriend.

I would worry about the visa, if you were planning on studying here you'd be fine, but studying long-distance doesn't give you a sufficient reason for an educational visa here. The problem with studying in Thailand is time. There aren't (to my knowledge) any short term degrees here, but the price is low enough that a 4 year degree here will still be cheaper than a 2 year in the west. The closest thing they have here are the new 5 year combined undergrad and grad, which removes a year. Everyone wants to do things quickly, but it's not always an option.

My suggestion would be to look into the local international programs, and see if they have any weekend study programs. I'm doing a master's here on the weekends, so I assume that weekend bachelor's programs must exist as well.

Good luck!

****Edit (because I forgot something!)****

As to the girlfriend pushing you, the poster above is correct. If you want a degree, then it is good to be getting emotional support from your girlfriend! Mine is happy that I'm trying to improve myself, but I think she is slightly jealous of the program for taking up so much of my time. She is no longer the sole focus of my attentions, and this causes occasional tension. You won't have to worry about this, so go for it!

Edited September 15, 2009 by Meridian007