Building To Western Standards. Possible In Thailand?

[greytown]

I read mentioned in other threads that one should not expect Western standards in building quality in Thailand. Is it possible at all though to obtain in Thailand (or only possible by using Western builders at Western prices, if at all)?

[globalwander1]

I read mentioned in other threads that one should not expect Western standards in building quality in Thailand. Is it possible at all though to obtain in Thailand (or only possible by using Western builders at Western prices, if at all)?

Where exactly in Thailand? Home or other? I have seen some great Farang and Thai quality homes in Thailand.

I managed my own home, but I have a background in construction. You should hire someone to help you manage the project...that will give you a better outcome and save you money. Again, location is very important to even start giving advise.

Good luck.

[juehoe]

To my experience I would say that this is not or hardly possible.

I let built a house in a new resort in Hua Hin. Even the project manager was a Western and the company which made the interiour design and work (kitchen, floors, walls etc.) was led by Western - I had many problems to get the quality I wanted. I took several attempts until some details were done correctly and in a more or less "Western standard".

There could be a chance, when you are a building professional and can control every work at every day and step-by-step "educate" the craftsmen. Of course you have to speak fluently Thai and understand the Thai culture.

My advise is to choose the materials and the design which can be done good in Thailand. Means, that a somewhat "rough" standard don't looks ugly.

[Curt1591]

As GW1 pointed out, it would require constant supervision, by someone familiar with Western building standards. Even then, there will be many situations that may get lost in translation.

[globalwander1]

As GW1 pointed out, it would require constant supervision, by someone familiar with Western building standards. Even then, there will be many situations that may get lost in translation.

Numerous times the Chun tried to cut corners on my home. Not because he was being a cheat but because that is the standard expectation to get a project completed.

Material is the most expensive part by far and I had to show them first hand techniques and a scratchpad of diagrams to get through some of the simplest (to western) ideas.

You need to find a project manager that can answer technical questions and offer solutions. Also, someone who will stand up to the Chun everytime a detail is not followed. Of course you will have to be upfront about this and don't let anyone other than your manager manage!!!

If you are not sure of construction issues then don't try yourself. This would be highly stressful for you and the builders.

Great work usually comes from great workers, managers and designers. You should realize what the standard is here and consider how much more effort and cost the project is worth to you. Not to mention, Thailand does have some great craftsman.

[bellagrego]

I read mentioned in other threads that one should not expect Western standards in building quality in Thailand. Is it possible at all though to obtain in Thailand (or only possible by using Western builders at Western prices, if at all)?

In many respects Thais build a better house than we in the west using their own standards and designs. Consider my home, now under construction in Sakon Nakhon. Reinforced,rebar concrete, with steel superstructure topped with concrete tile and solid hardwood frames. Compare that to my US built stick house made from the cheapest pine 2x4s, thin slab, and shingles on top, with sheetrock walls, and thinset tile. Get my point. My Thai house will last centuries, my house in Louisiana may last 50. On workmanship, the key is not to use contract labor but daily wage craftsmen emphasizing time is not an issue but quality is paramount. Everything will not be perfect and it never was in America. here. I have no contractor and watch the work daily and my wife translates my designs and instructions. This is my first total house build but have done renovations and smaller projects before. Best of all, I can do it all. Carpentry, plumbing, tile, electric and the rest. Some things I just take over when necessary.

The

Thais come around the village and ask a lot of questions about the crazy falang they see in Thai pants busting his ass with the crew.

good luck and think positive over here. Give the workers respect and a beer too.

russ

[Artisi]

The best way is to look for a quality builder, design something that is achievable even by western standards and be up-front with the builder on the standard of construction you want and what your expectations are. What helps is to have good construction drawings, examples from magazines / photo's etc of what you are trying to achieve and be prepared to work closely with the builder and his crew and don't try to cut corners / costs with cheap materials and fittings.

If something is not being done to your liking - show the builder what you expect and if you have the knowledge and skills yourself demonstrate first hand- but remember about saving face - so go about it in a diplomatic fashion.

[rfukata]

I read mentioned in other threads that one should not expect Western standards in building quality in Thailand. Is it possible at all though to obtain in Thailand (or only possible by using Western builders at Western prices, if at all)?

everyone on your reply is correct.

agree, you have to stick around the project and supervise (along with, if there is a local supervisor on your project)

there are always things that do not conform to your expectations.

In my experience with having two houses built, I wasn't always at the site (due to working overseas) so I did have some

mishaps, mistakes done on my houses.

* importantly - have an expert ELECTRICIAN (licensed Class A) wire your house.

** same for a PLUMBER.. find an expert professional, Thai houses normally use small diameter PVC pipes, opt to

install larger ones.

*** drainage around the house; plan ahead and lay, install pipes for drainages (prevents flooding and termites)

I am sure you will have a great house built under proper and diligent supervision

[globalwander1]

I read mentioned in other threads that one should not expect Western standards in building quality in Thailand. Is it possible at all though to obtain in Thailand (or only possible by using Western builders at Western prices, if at all)?

everyone on your reply is correct.

agree, you have to stick around the project and supervise (along with, if there is a local supervisor on your project)

there are always things that do not conform to your expectations.

In my experience with having two houses built, I wasn't always at the site (due to working overseas) so I did have some

mishaps, mistakes done on my houses.

* importantly - have an expert ELECTRICIAN (licensed Class A) wire your house.

** same for a PLUMBER.. find an expert professional, Thai houses normally use small diameter PVC pipes, opt to

install larger ones.

*** drainage around the house; plan ahead and lay, install pipes for drainages (prevents flooding and termites)

I am sure you will have a great house built under proper and diligent supervision

Very good points! Electrician must be a real professional. Plumbing most likely will not work properly if done by a local worker. Put serious effort into those areas. Look closely at western plans to get an idea how much work is really done that you will never see. In Isaan, if you don't see it - it isn't there.

[greytown]

Thanks all for the info. Location I'm thinking would be rural northern Thailand (Chiang Mai maybe).

[PeaceBlondie]

In many respects Thais build a better house than we in the west using their own standards and designs. Consider my home, now under construction in Sakon Nakhon. Reinforced,rebar concrete, with steel superstructure topped with concrete tile and solid hardwood frames. Compare that to my US built stick house made from the cheapest pine 2x4s, thin slab, and shingles on top, with sheetrock walls, and thinset tile. Get my point. My Thai house will last centuries, my house in Louisiana may last 50.

I agree with Russ about these points. We built outside Chiang Mai; moved in almost 9 months ago. We used local contractor and his crews. Virtually no problems; ignored Western bulls**t, written contracts, etc.

[greytown]

In many respects Thais build a better house than we in the west using their own standards and designs. Consider my home, now under construction in Sakon Nakhon. Reinforced,rebar concrete, with steel superstructure topped with concrete tile and solid hardwood frames. Compare that to my US built stick house made from the cheapest pine 2x4s, thin slab, and shingles on top, with sheetrock walls, and thinset tile. Get my point. My Thai house will last centuries, my house in Louisiana may last 50.

I agree with Russ about these points. We built outside Chiang Mai; moved in almost 9 months ago. We used local contractor and his crews. Virtually no problems; ignored Western bulls**t, written contracts, etc.

Good to hear. But isn't going ahead without written contracts the worst possible thing to do? (Unless you have a very close relationship (good friend / family) with the contractor?)

[GungaDin]

Hi greytown.

I know nothing about this mob but you could check them out at allanthebuilderdotcom (or alan)

A Pommie builder, I believe?

good luck.

[toptuan]

In many respects Thais build a better house than we in the west using their own standards and designs. Consider my home, now under construction in Sakon Nakhon. Reinforced,rebar concrete, with steel superstructure topped with concrete tile and solid hardwood frames. Compare that to my US built stick house made from the cheapest pine 2x4s, thin slab, and shingles on top, with sheetrock walls, and thinset tile. Get my point. My Thai house will last centuries, my house in Louisiana may last 50.

I agree with Russ about these points. We built outside Chiang Mai; moved in almost 9 months ago. We used local contractor and his crews. Virtually no problems; ignored Western bulls**t, written contracts, etc.

In contrast, I moved into a brand-new Thai-built masonry duplex five years ago. Already, I'm gradually replacing everything, including the roof. The rent is so cheap (US $60 a month) that I can afford to do the maintenance (which is typically not done by the owner in upcountry Isaan). My guess is that in 10 years, the place will be unlivable due to foundation settling and resulting cracks which run from foundation to roof. Time to move!

[lioness]

As everyone has said it is very difficult, however not impossible. When I built my house I was on site from 7 in the morning until 6 at night, every day for 4 months. Local builder who didn't have a clue as to "Western standards", so everything had to be carefully watched.

I have built 3 homes here all without contracts, I make progress payments, this allows the builders to pay there staff fortnightly and enough for them to live on, the balance is usually about 25% and not paid until I am entirely satisfied.

Fortunately I have experience in the building industry, which not everyone has, all I can say is watch everything, and never ever assume anything will be automatically understood, because quite likely it will be the opposite.

[katabeachbum]

Western standard building materials are available.

Hot and cold water pipes from Thai PPR (German pipes), available in Home Pro now.

Proper electric stuff. Be aware most supplyers have to standards to be able to compete. Euro standard and thai standard. have a look at Bticini.

Conrete structure is normally very strong for thai houses. Just tell your arcitect and engineer you want it earthquake strong. Use readymixed concrete from CPAC 240 or 280.

Thai tiling is often better than Italian

CPAC Monier roofing is good, use Sika and/or stainless steel where needed.

Windows can be purchased readymade in PVC, but I find powdercoated aluminum good enough and less expensive.

Now just find someone who has experience with these materials, and you can end up with a house better than Euro standard.

The most common problem is to get things straight and in level. Farang dayly qualitycontrol could help.

Edited October 22, 2009 by katabeachbum

[katabeachbum]

all I can say is watch everything, and never ever assume anything will be automatically understood, because quite likely it will be the opposite.

usually they say they understand and agree to do as explained, but do it their own way anyway Farang qualitycontrol every hour could help

[elkangorito]

* importantly - have an expert ELECTRICIAN (licensed Class A) wire your house.

** same for a PLUMBER.. find an expert professional, Thai houses normally use small diameter PVC pipes, opt to

install larger ones.

*** drainage around the house; plan ahead and lay, install pipes for drainages (prevents flooding and termites)

I am sure you will have a great house built under proper and diligent supervision

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "licensed" electrician in Thailand. As a matter of fact, there is no such trade as an electrician here.

Electrical theory is taught at colleges but standard wiring practice is not taught. Also, there are no rules governing domestic electrical installations in Thailand.

After the student has completed their training, they will be awarded one of two possible certificates, depending upon how many years they've studied. A "Certificate of Vocational Education" is awarded to those who successfully complete 3 years of college & a "Diploma of Vocational Education" is awarded to those who successfully complete 5 years of college.

There is no such thing as a "trade certificate" in Thailand for the electrical field.

[Rimmer]

At one time a worker poured the cement, welded the roof, laid the floor tiles and did the electrics but many workers now specialize in one area of construction and are good at what they do and work quickly consequently I would say that building standards have improved in the last five years

Find the right people in the part of the build you are doing at the time and keep a close watch on them and you will have good work done.

[steelepulse]

You definitely can get really good construction ( at least in Phuket), but you need to find a contractor that has built multiple houses/projects up to western standards. Constant supervision is also necessary.

[katabeachbum]

* importantly - have an expert ELECTRICIAN (licensed Class A) wire your house.

** same for a PLUMBER.. find an expert professional, Thai houses normally use small diameter PVC pipes, opt to

install larger ones.

*** drainage around the house; plan ahead and lay, install pipes for drainages (prevents flooding and termites)

I am sure you will have a great house built under proper and diligent supervision

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "licensed" electrician in Thailand. As a matter of fact, there is no such trade as an electrician here.

Electrical theory is taught at colleges but standard wiring practice is not taught. Also, there are no rules governing domestic electrical installations in Thailand.

After the student has completed their training, they will be awarded one of two possible certificates, depending upon how many years they've studied. A "Certificate of Vocational Education" is awarded to those who successfully complete 3 years of college & a "Diploma of Vocational Education" is awarded to those who successfully complete 5 years of college.

There is no such thing as a "trade certificate" in Thailand for the electrical field.

yepp

decide your own colorcodes for wiring, bann scotch tape/twisted wires, use torax, and make sure every 16 amp braker has 2,5mm2 wires all the way to outlet or switch.

pvc waterpipes has nothing to do in western quality house, even in the best grade 13,5. Its crap, illegal to use in developed countries like China and Malaysia. I use it for sprinkler and sometimes outside the building. Never build into walls, floors or roofs.

[wpcoe]

Somewhere in this forum (or maybe in the DIY sub-forum?) is a thread about what to look out for when building your own home in Thailand. Unfortunately, the forum search engine doesn't accept three-letter words, so I gave up trying to find the thread.

Maybe someone else had it bookmarked, or recalls the thread? It would be a good read in conjunction with this current thread.

[doggie888888]

I read mentioned in other threads that one should not expect Western standards in building quality in Thailand. Is it possible at all though to obtain in Thailand (or only possible by using Western builders at Western prices, if at all)?

Just be careful of Western builders exploiting the MYTH that Thais cannot build quality. They advertise "European managed" and "European standards". My experience: they charge European prices, deliver third world standards and then have the gall to blame their Thai workers aka "this is thailand". Worse of all, there is minimal supervision and they plonk a poorly briefed, poorly skilled local supervisor because "we (the farang) can't be at every site" which is true, so train your managers!

In the end I had to get locals to come in and fix all the problems, bit by bit. And surprise, surprise...they can do it as long as they understand why (get a VERY good translator!).

I wish the more credible farang builders will get together and get rid of the dishonest, amateur farang players...then "European standards" will really mean something. Now, it's just a meaningless phrase designed to offer false reassurance to other farangs.

[HomeInspector]

Hello. I am a property inspector in Thailand. I am trained in the US. I belive it is impossible. I have inspected many many villas apt. condos in Phuket. None of them would get a occupancy permit from the local goverment. Most notably are the electrics. Also every footing I have inspected is undersized. Even if you have an experienced project manager they will give up in the end because as one item is repaired two othe items are damaged. However you can get a real good (for Thailand) villa built if managed on a daily basis. When I manager the built of a villa it has to be one maybe two units at a time. There is just is not enought time in the day for one person to manager more then that. You have to remember there is no goverment inspections performed here. For a Thai contractor a little bit of money goes a long way, so they will tent to cut corners every where possible.

[MrBrad]

This is a related question, one I have wondered about for quite some time now, but have never seen addressed--maybe I've not searched enough. Technically or legally speaking, can a foreigner do any work on his own property without a work permit? Not that anyone is really going to be taken to court or deported for changing a light bulb or painting a wall, but how is this kind of work seen by the authorities? How much work--including supervising and assisting on the jobsite--can one do before it's seen as illegal work?

Edited October 25, 2009 by MrBrad

[stevejones123]

As somebody else has said, "What are Western standards?" New build houses in the UK with softwood window frames? Stick houses with 2 x4 walls in the US?

I have a house in Lanka not Thailand, but some things seem the same. Electricity is a nightmare. There's a definite tendency to use lower quality wire to the breaker, and it's hard to know the quality of the fuse box you are buying (though I suspect the same problem occurs in the US).

In my experience problems come when you expect the local worker to meet some 'western' standard that he doesn't understand. If he's building what he's used to he'll do a good job.

By the way what is the beef about using PVC pipes inside the house? In Sri Lanka I don't think I've seen any others, and I certainly wouldn't be able to find a plumber who would know how to work with copper. Leaks at the joints after some years is the only problem I can think of at present. What I fail to understand are codes that allow PVC for drainage but not for water; is the idea that drainage pipes will only leak when draining?

[selavy59]

By the way what is the beef about using PVC pipes inside the house?

It's all to do with water pressure. PVC joints are glued and the joints will not stand up to water pressure. Plastics pipes (not PVC) can be used provided that the correct joints are used.

[Tanaka]

Hi greytown.

I know nothing about this mob but you could check them out at allanthebuilderdotcom (or alan)

A Pommie builder, I believe?

good luck.

Yeah right. Last year I had contact with him askin some questions about if they could build what I wanted. Nothing fancy at all. I also asked if they could or could direct me in the direction of solar cells. I got the reply: "NO. Good luck!"

I know who I will not use when I am ready to build.

[GungaDin]

^^^^ Thanks for the heads-up.

[buffcoat]

I can understand a reluctance to say XXX company is no good but have any of you found a 'European' standards builder who has actually delivered what they promised?

Additionally if you were to follow the route of buying an existing house how do you go about finding a surveyor who will do a rigorous job?