How Much To Support A Child In Bangkok?

[fruit]

My thai wife of 5 years has now decided she wants a divorce, and to move back to Thailand with our 2 kids (1.5 & 3.5). I am 32, she is 33.

I am not particularly happy, and was considering legal options to keep the kids living here. I am still contemplating keeping 1 kid with me and letting the other go back with his Mum. I know that any outcome in our situation is going to be far from ideal, and someone is going to be left unhappy. In reality I will probably not go down that path however. I don't feel like my access to the kids (when I travel to LOS) would be an issue, which is a mitigating factor.

She only wants money for their education and expenses (which is fine by me), and she will get a job to cover her own expenses. She is well educated and can get a well paid job. Her family have high status but are not rich. She stays in a house in Bangkok. I bought her a car and small condo before.

So how much is adequate/reasonable to offer to support 2 kids? Should I make one monthly payment to cover all associated costs, or pay for their living costs and education costs separately? Surely as they grow up the schooling costs will increase? I was thinking to make a written agreement confirming everything with the kids/money, but then decided that this would benefit her a lot more than it would me?

I was thinking 20,000/month, + schooling costs, is this about right (for 2 kids)?

I am greatly attached to our older kid in particular, hence why I am contemplating trying to keep him here, but can't bear the thought of the 2 of us living alone in this house, and I'm not sure that I'm really cut out to be a solo-dad. And not sure if it is really a good idea for him to grow up with me, rather than with his mum and brother and all the other family in Thailand. The thought of them both growing up in Thai society makes me feel resentful. I am not sure if it's better to simply try and "start over" again with another lady, rather than being too hung up on the past. Will I regret allowing them all to leave here so easily? Will my boy hate me or be distant from me when he grows up? I don't work many hours, so I get to spend a lot of time together with my boy every day and it is going to be a real shock not having him around.

As you can probably tell, this is bit of a shock and I haven't quite come to terms with it all yet, am still confused.

If anyone can offer any thoughtful insight or ideas it would be appreciated.

[Mario2008]

Sorry about your situation.

If it comes to a court case where a judge has to decide about custody of the children, no judge is going to seperate the children unless there are VERY good grounds for that. A seperation of both children will be considered to be not in the interest of the children.

Child support depends on what you can afford and what the children need. Giving 20,000 a month plus costs of schooling sounds like a good deal, especialy when the mother can find a good job and provide for the children as well.

As for your relationship with your children in the future, it will greatly depend on your interest in the child and what you do to stay in contact with them. Although for the youngest you will become a stranger as the memory is limited and his attachment to you will fade together with his memory of you as his father. It is difficult for people to remember things from before they are about 4 years old.

[philo]

Hi fruit.

I am in a similar situation. Two children - 7 months and 2.5 years. I 'hate' their mother, but didn't have the courage to leave her and the children. So she left me. Now, alone, I have even managed to sober up and can do something to keep in contact with and help my children.

I have the same view as Mario - don't separate your children. Also, they will probably be better off as kids staying with their mother and extended family. I am 52, and even if I wasn't an alcoholic, I now cannot even contemplate on being a single father anymore. When they grow up, their mother will probably be interested in the benefits of her offspring having a european passport and the children will seek advise and choose for themselves.

Cash, postcards, telephone calls, health insurance, bank savings, nursery, preschool, gifts and visits will have to do for now. It will sort itself out somehow later.

Good luck.

[Krap]

My thai wife of 5 years has now decided she wants a divorce, and to move back to Thailand with our 2 kids (1.5 & 3.5). I am 32, she is 33.

I am not particularly happy, and was considering legal options to keep the kids living here. I am still contemplating keeping 1 kid with me and letting the other go back with his Mum. I know that any outcome in our situation is going to be far from ideal, and someone is going to be left unhappy. In reality I will probably not go down that path however. I don't feel like my access to the kids (when I travel to LOS) would be an issue, which is a mitigating factor.

She only wants money for their education and expenses (which is fine by me), and she will get a job to cover her own expenses. She is well educated and can get a well paid job. Her family have high status but are not rich. She stays in a house in Bangkok. I bought her a car and small condo before.

So how much is adequate/reasonable to offer to support 2 kids? Should I make one monthly payment to cover all associated costs, or pay for their living costs and education costs separately? Surely as they grow up the schooling costs will increase? I was thinking to make a written agreement confirming everything with the kids/money, but then decided that this would benefit her a lot more than it would me?

I was thinking 20,000/month, + schooling costs, is this about right (for 2 kids)?

I am greatly attached to our older kid in particular, hence why I am contemplating trying to keep him here, but can't bear the thought of the 2 of us living alone in this house, and I'm not sure that I'm really cut out to be a solo-dad. And not sure if it is really a good idea for him to grow up with me, rather than with his mum and brother and all the other family in Thailand. The thought of them both growing up in Thai society makes me feel resentful. I am not sure if it's better to simply try and "start over" again with another lady, rather than being too hung up on the past. Will I regret allowing them all to leave here so easily? Will my boy hate me or be distant from me when he grows up? I don't work many hours, so I get to spend a lot of time together with my boy every day and it is going to be a real shock not having him around.

As you can probably tell, this is bit of a shock and I haven't quite come to terms with it all yet, am still confused.

If anyone can offer any thoughtful insight or ideas it would be appreciated.

//

I have lived trough the separation of my parents at a young age and the following "stepfather" experience. Its not a nice thing for children. Your children are quite young and i doubt if even ur oldest of 3,5y will remember much in the future would u disapear out of the picture now.

It would in my opinion be of benefit for them if u can manage to keep regular contact, the void of not knowing one of your parents and being able to relate to him is huge.

Boys generaly need their father more and more after the age of 6-7y, time passes quickly and ur sons development will benefit from ur prescence.

Remeber that children at this age cant speak for them self and dont expect them to come looking for you in the future if you dont keep contact. That might or might not happen, but there mother will get a new life and a new husband and that will be their life if u dont keep contact.

Mothers ofcourse generally care well for children of young age but are also very much capable of acting in their own best intresst not always putting the best of the children at first.

There is no reason why u should not consider ur own best as well as that of ur childrens.

About supporting them i thailand, it could be anything in the range of about 3000bath per month and child (More or less the cost of raising a child in a low income thai familly) to what u can afford. We all have different ideas of livingstandard but at the bare minimum for food and chlothes that ought to be enough.

Definetely 20000b/month plus school is a great offer and will most probably also support the mother. If you want to make sure the money goes to the children offer to pay for things directly such as school fees, hospital fees etc instead of sending money.

10000b/month (for 2) plus school fees would still be a very good offer in my opinion. Also remember that what you give now might set standard for a future childsupportclaim.

In complex issues like this trust your feelings and ask for legal advice when needed.

Wish you the best luck.

[MikeyIdea]

I have gone through one difficult divorce, no kids thank God, and finally moved on as quickly as I could, that was one year later, and I wish I had been able to do it quicker. My advice to you: The past is exactly that, it’s gone and won’t come back. Forget the past – move on.

It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t bring something with you though. You write that you are greatly attached to your older kid in particular, pardon me for being frank but it sounds to me that you will regret letting the kid slip out of your life more than you have ever regretted anything in your whole life – soon enough.

“can't bear the thought of the 2 of us living alone in this house” – Why on earth not?

“I’m not sure that I'm really cut out to be a solo-dad” – Sounds from what you write that you will easily do the most natural thing in the world, you will “step up to it”, enthusiastically, once you get over the first couple of weeks and get into the routine. I kicked out the mother for a month because she hit me and took care of my daughter myself, without any pre-plan what-so-ever and it was much easier than I thought it would be. Pure pleasure too

“not sure if it is really a good idea for him to grow up with me, rather than with his mum and brother and all the other family in Thailand” - I have been in Thailand for 17 years by now and I love the extended family concept. It does not mean that I would let my beloved daughter (4 years 9 months old) float and sink with this extended family, without my support and help. Over my dead body. There would be a considerable negative impact on my childs development and her future ability if I did that.

“The thought of them both growing up in Thai society makes me feel resentful” – In my experience, resentfulness grows with time, it doesn’t get less. Ask yourself: How do you think that you will feel a year after you let him go?

“Will I regret allowing them all to leave here so easily?” – YES! Pardon the screaming… IMHO

“Will my boy hate me?” – That depends on the mother

“Will my boy be distant from me when he grows up?” – Yes, no screaming this time but yes! Imagine seeing your child after several months and he doesn’t even want to come to you, he is not comfortable with you around any longer, it takes maybe two weeks before he warms up to you

“it is going to be a real shock not having him around” – You probably don’t understand what a chock it will be yet. It’s outside the scale of human comprehension before it has been experienced.

I agree with what Krap writes, the mother will get a new life and that life will be your kids life. You won’t be in it only because you can come and visit a month or two per year.

Money

20,000 per month + school is ridiculously high in my opinion. I (we, me and my wife) spend approx. 7,000 bath + education on our daughter and I admit it, I love her so much that I probably spoil her. But I don’t want to listen when people say that… 10,000 for 2 kids and school fees paid separately is also a good offer, certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Make sure that you always pay school fees yourself

But… Are you really seriously considering allowing both kids get a new life without you in it on the other side of the world?

Wish you all the luck

Michael

[philo]

"About supporting them i thailand, it could be anything in the range of about 3000bath per month and child (More or less the cost of raising a child in a low income thai familly) to what u can afford. We all have different ideas of livingstandard but at the bare minimum for food and chlothes that ought to be enough."

"20,000 per month + school is ridiculously high in my opinion. I (we, me and my wife) spend approx. 7,000 bath + education on our daughter and I admit it, I love her so much that I probably spoil her."

Did you get fired from your apprenticeships as clerks working for Uriah Heep?

[fruit]

Thanks all for your thoughts and experiences, they mean a lot to me, and I'm glad to hear from people who have experienced something similar. Philo, I'm glad to hear that your situation has ended up having a more positive(?) impact on your life.

I am a very logical person and normally make decisions easily after weighing up all the information, but this one is just too tough. I have spoken with a couple of lawyers and they said it would be easy to get an order preventing them from leaving here, especially as Thailand is not signatory to the Hague Convention. Also, that it would be virtually impossible for my wife to claim any of my assets (due to the way they are structured). So at least I have a fair bit of leverage.

Not separating children sounds to be a common theme. The older one couldn't care less about his brother at the moment, although I'm sure that would change as they grow up. Although there is more family in Thailand than there is here; in my mind the most important people for kids is their mother and father. If they were in Thailand then their mother would probably be working 5-6 days/week and could be long hours too. Whereas if here they would see a lot more of me, as my hours are not great, and work schedule is flexible.

I think the main thing for me is thinking of the future - both boys growing up in Thailand and amongst Thai society, the thought of being distant with them, the possibility of them having a stepfather, but most of all the regret. I can do it, I have all capabilities to raise him. If I was too poor, or had to work too many hours and couldn't give him much attention, or had too many other responsibilities, then the decision would be so much easier to make, and I could let him go with my mind at ease that it's the right decision.

If they were both to live in Thailand, their mum said I could visit anytime(and I would 2-4 times/year), and they could come back here to visit during Thai school holidays. But I'm not sure that this is enough. It sounds like a lot of time together, but being apart for 3 months is going to be hard, depressing.

I hate being single, and with the past few years having been loveless and in a pretty negative relationship, the thought of being able to find a partner with whom there is mutual attraction once again, is certainly appealing. This would be tricky with kids. I'm not sure if this is selfish of me or not, but is something I thought about.

MikeyIdea thanks for giving me some perspective, you have exactly summarised my thoughts from the other side of the fence, and it is powerful.

We haven't actually discussed money yet as she's still in Thailand with the little one. I have no idea what a starting figure would be, or how much the schooling would cost. But I have a feeling she's going to expect a lot, even if it is just for the kids. She is a good Mum, intelligent, loves them dearly, breastfed them 1.5 years, doesn't drink/smoke, doesn't cheat or lie to me. They will be in Bangkok, so it will obviously cost more than some other places. I can afford it, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to agree to pay it, especially considering she's the one leaving me. I think she will earn decent money, her last salary (7-8 years ago) was 30,000/month, so in some ways that is a reason to pay more so I am not paying a stingy amount compared to her previous salary, and in some ways a reason to pay less as she could be earning more. She may have some difficulty getting back into workplaces after a long absence, but not my problem. It's not the money issue which really troubles me anyway (despite the title of my topic).

I would dearly love to go with my feelings, instinct, and logic - but none of them can agree. Anyway thanks for listening and it helps being able to write this stuff down and then reread it.

[Krap]

"About supporting them i thailand, it could be anything in the range of about 3000bath per month and child (More or less the cost of raising a child in a low income thai familly) to what u can afford. We all have different ideas of livingstandard but at the bare minimum for food and chlothes that ought to be enough."

"20,000 per month + school is ridiculously high in my opinion. I (we, me and my wife) spend approx. 7,000 bath + education on our daughter and I admit it, I love her so much that I probably spoil her."

Did you get fired from your apprenticeships as clerks working for Uriah Heep?

Altough i i think Urah Heep was quite a good gruop i still dont get what u want to say? Spit it out pls.

[Krap]

Thanks all for your thoughts and experiences, they mean a lot to me, and I'm glad to hear from people who have experienced something similar. Philo, I'm glad to hear that your situation has ended up having a more positive(?) impact on your life.

I am a very logical person and normally make decisions easily after weighing up all the information, but this one is just too tough. I have spoken with a couple of lawyers and they said it would be easy to get an order preventing them from leaving here, especially as Thailand is not signatory to the Hague Convention. Also, that it would be virtually impossible for my wife to claim any of my assets (due to the way they are structured). So at least I have a fair bit of leverage.

Not separating children sounds to be a common theme. The older one couldn't care less about his brother at the moment, although I'm sure that would change as they grow up. Although there is more family in Thailand than there is here; in my mind the most important people for kids is their mother and father. If they were in Thailand then their mother would probably be working 5-6 days/week and could be long hours too. Whereas if here they would see a lot more of me, as my hours are not great, and work schedule is flexible.

I think the main thing for me is thinking of the future - both boys growing up in Thailand and amongst Thai society, the thought of being distant with them, the possibility of them having a stepfather, but most of all the regret. I can do it, I have all capabilities to raise him. If I was too poor, or had to work too many hours and couldn't give him much attention, or had too many other responsibilities, then the decision would be so much easier to make, and I could let him go with my mind at ease that it's the right decision.

If they were both to live in Thailand, their mum said I could visit anytime(and I would 2-4 times/year), and they could come back here to visit during Thai school holidays. But I'm not sure that this is enough. It sounds like a lot of time together, but being apart for 3 months is going to be hard, depressing.

I hate being single, and with the past few years having been loveless and in a pretty negative relationship, the thought of being able to find a partner with whom there is mutual attraction once again, is certainly appealing. This would be tricky with kids. I'm not sure if this is selfish of me or not, but is something I thought about.

MikeyIdea thanks for giving me some perspective, you have exactly summarised my thoughts from the other side of the fence, and it is powerful.

We haven't actually discussed money yet as she's still in Thailand with the little one. I have no idea what a starting figure would be, or how much the schooling would cost. But I have a feeling she's going to expect a lot, even if it is just for the kids. She is a good Mum, intelligent, loves them dearly, breastfed them 1.5 years, doesn't drink/smoke, doesn't cheat or lie to me. They will be in Bangkok, so it will obviously cost more than some other places. I can afford it, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to agree to pay it, especially considering she's the one leaving me. I think she will earn decent money, her last salary (7-8 years ago) was 30,000/month, so in some ways that is a reason to pay more so I am not paying a stingy amount compared to her previous salary, and in some ways a reason to pay less as she could be earning more. She may have some difficulty getting back into workplaces after a long absence, but not my problem. It's not the money issue which really troubles me anyway (despite the title of my topic).

I would dearly love to go with my feelings, instinct, and logic - but none of them can agree. Anyway thanks for listening and it helps being able to write this stuff down and then reread it.

Fruit, the thing is u cant settle this with logic cause the matter is to complex, to many variables and ur to emotionally involved. So in terms of ur future with ur children, trust ur feelings!!! They are obvisoulsy very important to u.

The money matter is better settled with reason and doesnt have to be problematic at all, just provide enough, this is for care of the children and nothing else, u can be sure that 10000/m plus scholing is enough. School can be quite expensive but it all depends. Mother of my child just said "for 50000b per term our daugther can go to a really good school".

In a way the mother of ur children agreed to make a new life i a new country and i dont really see why u should have to take all the consequences when she wants out. Meaning, maybe u should prevent her from taking the children to thailand, shes acting in her best intresst so why shouldnt u do the same? Also if u let them go now u dont know how she will act in the future when circumstances change.

One scenario could be, that allthough the two of u separate, u keep the children in the ambient they are now comfortable with and the mother will have to adapt and make a new life for herself in ur country so the both of u can have contact with the children. That way u will also know where the money is going and u both can enjoy ur children. Wouldnt this be in the best itnresst of the children?

From ur story i think that might be the best solution for u and ur children, seeing that u actually have lots of time to spend with them and obviosuly also consider their best and have the finacial resources to provide and care for them.

U seem to be like me many western men, me included, softhearted from ur upbringing but the thais dont usually have much of this (in my opinion), they look simply to their best intresst without much remsorse or regret.

MikeyIdea is spot on it, stand up for ur rights!

Krap

[MikeyIdea]

Education – That's a subject I like

Better off Thais I know tend to decide school based on reputation and name, then try to deal with the travelling time. It is not unusual to see 5 year olds being dragged out-of-bed before 5:30 in the morning. I recommend the other way around. Find all decent schools within reasonable distance from home, then decide for one as close as possible. All my Thai friends know about the importance of sleep but are bad at enforcing it; their kids are all around 10% below what western child psychiatrists recommend. Common language in my home is Thai, I speak Thai with my wife and my daughter, and I speak Thai at work below manager level so I have plenty of Thai friends to base my opinion on

There are 4 types of schools in Thailand;

International:

There are too many now a days and that a school has the title "international" doesn't necessarily mean that it is good any longer. Cost 300,000 to 500,000 bath per child and year. Beware of the extras, e.g., Thai is often not included in the base price

For me, international school is not an option economically, I can't afford it, but even if I could, I still wouldn't send Idea (that's my daughters nick name) to one. She would grow up not really being Thai and I don't think that's going to be easy for her. She would miss part of the good of being Thai and living in Thailand. If a child is going to grow up and have a future in Thailand (only), then I don't recommend International school.

Bilingual school:

Best of 2 worlds IMO. Still Thai and also influenced by western thinking and values. I will send Idea to BBS (Bangkok bilingual school) for first grade and I think I'm lucky, it's only 2 km from home. BBS is 65,000 per child per year for Kindergarten and 110,000 for Grade 1. That is for 2 semesters. Add 25% for extras, 60% if the kid is to join 3rd semester Mar to May. Need to check the teachers, all Bilingual schools are not using good native speaking teachers.

Moderators, if this break forum rules, then my apologies and please delete.

"Satit" government schools

Satit Chula is probably good but the others I am not so sure. All rich Thai's try to get their kids into Satit schools. They are government schools, entrance exams are difficult, tea money certainly helps. I have a friend who said that they paid 600,000 bath under the table to get their son in and that was in the mid-90s (I've heard it's cheaper now). But once they are in, then it is dirt cheap. The kid himself told me that 80% of the students cheat on the exams and the teachers know it and ignore it

Other government schools

Some are actually good, most of them not that good though

Thai education value academic knowledge… All kindergartens I know and have heard of have the goal that the kids should be able to read and write 2 languages by the time they do the entrance exam to first grade. Why not? If they can't do that, then they won't pass the Satit entrance exam… And if the school management and the teachers are smart enough to know that it is not really good for the kids, then they are surely also smart enough not to say anything, if they want Thai parents to send their kids to their school… Idea is 4 years and 9 months old and she has 7 to 10 home work assignments per week. I asked the teacher why and she replied that the (Thai) parents come to her and request more home work…

All adult Thais are good at remembering but many are less good at other brain activities like problem solving and logical thinking. Being actively involved in my daughters education, it all falls nicely in place. Yes, that's surely enforced by the Thai educational system

But then, this is a very long post about education in Thailand from someone who recommends you to keep the kids (or at least one of them) and you don't live in Thailand

Everything is not logical, trust your feelings

All the best

Michael

Edited October 29, 2009 by MikeyIdea

[Krap]

MikeyIdea, thnxs for the breafing about thai schools, came in handy as i had just begun to think a bit about this. School really can be expensive! I woulndt pay 500000b per year if i wasnt really loaded though, then again my spelling sucks so maybe someone should have paid more for me in the past...