Why Is Thailand So Unsophisticated Musically?

[thaihome]

The one thing that bothers me about this thread in particular is the two main proponents do not actually address the responses to their absurd bias theme but just go on and on with their ridiculous rants which are based on such a limited experience, apparently centered around lower Sukhumivt and the “trendy” clubs there….

I am waiting for them to take on Thai3, without a doubt the worldwide expert on Thai music, acknowledged as such on virtually every forum, including the many where he has been banned.

TH

Edited October 30, 2009 by thaihome

[dkstoney]

... And just to prove my point, the whole country is is gaga over and singing Que Sera Sera from Doris Day. Talk about about mind-numbing propaganda to further the "mai pen rai" curse of Thai society, this is it!

If you don’t think the video of the group of handicap children singing Que Sera Sera to their parents is one of the most powerful and poignant things you have ever seen then you are an unfeeling, narcissistic asshol_e that probably has not had a thought for anyone else is his entire life.

Guess you probably don't like American C&W music much either?

The cultural bias in this thread is shocking.

TH

I'm glad we have now been provided with the bar for determing who qualifies as unfeeling, narcissistic, asshol_es who have never had a thought for anyone else in their entire lives. Thank you. One would certainly have to be as you have described to not be affected by the image of handicapped Thai children singing Que Sera Sera and their parents solemnly attuned. However, if you had half a brain, you would understand that that wasn't my point. The song is about not expecting anything from the future and that you should live your life not thinking about the future; not striving for betterment; accepting that the future is COMPLETELY out of our hands. What a horrible sentiment, especially for a nation of people trying to shrug off the remnants of feudal serfdom and pursuing self-determination. Thais aren't singing that song because they have some suddenly realized unspoken sympathy for retarded and disabled children. They're singing because it's on TV, which is the point of this entire thread. It just proves that it has to come from the mainstream media for Thais to accept it in any way, shape, or form.

As for your guess, it was a bad one. I do like American C & W. What does that have to do with the rest of your ill-thought out retort?

[thai3]

Just like the adage about how even the worst book can have something good to read, Thai music is the same. I don't think the OP is trying to insult or challenge anyone's taste in music, but just to point out that there is a serious lack of creative experimentation within the overall body of Thai music. My guess is that society in Thailand is manipulated through the media and the education system to adhere to a strict mental image of what is Thai and what is not, unfortunately placing the blinders on the proverbial horse. And just to prove my point, the whole country is is gaga over and singing Que Sera Sera from Doris Day. Talk about about mind-numbing propaganda to further the "mai pen rai" curse of Thai society, this is it!

Typical Thai ballad line:

Boy sees girl on bus and falls in love immediately.

Boy goes to talk to girl.

Bus stops, girl gets off, drops her hair pin.

Boy is hindered by crowded bus and can't get off.

Bus goes again as he picks up her hair pin.

Boy stares smitten out bus window.

Sees girl go into restaurant.

Comes back next day to give her hair pin.

Girl is waitress.

Girl's boyfriend is there taking her money. Slaps her.

Boy steps in to protect her.

Boy gives girl hair pin.

Girl thanks boy. Has an innocent date walking along the river.

Boy goes to restaurant next day.

Boy sees girl smiling and laughing with bad boyfriend...bouquet of flowers in her hand.

Girl gets in Benz with bad boyfriend and drives off in to the sunset.

This is such a prevalent theme in Thai music and television that it makes me sick.

Oh so true!

And to the OP, great post!

More ignorance, you could childishly parody Mozart or Shakespeare in much the same way, and what about painting? well that's just a load of old oil brushed onto canvas aint it? The problem with people on Thai forums is that a lot of them only became interested in the country for the booze and sex aspect, and some never seem to have taken much effort to move their knowledge or interests beyond the stereotypes, so well demonstrated with this song parody.

[mizzi39]

... And just to prove my point, the whole country is is gaga over and singing Que Sera Sera from Doris Day. Talk about about mind-numbing propaganda to further the "mai pen rai" curse of Thai society, this is it!

If you don't think the video of the group of handicap children singing Que Sera Sera to their parents is one of the most powerful and poignant things you have ever seen then you are an unfeeling, narcissistic asshol_e that probably has not had a thought for anyone else is his entire life.

Guess you probably don't like American C&W music much either?

The cultural bias in this thread is shocking.

TH

Ok thaihome, we all know that you are a "Thai hugger" of some sort, and i think that you missed the point of dkstoneys post. he was not criticizing some handicap kids singing to their parents or the masses for that matter, but pointing out the typical propaganda that brainwashes and influences Thai society, so there was nothing insensitive about his post. Anyone who has been living here for a length of time knows that the whole "Thainess" becomes mindnumbing, and not just to falangs, but to Thais.

I am an American and can tell you that C&W sucks!, but of course this is just my subjective, self indulgent, narcissistic opinion.

[thai3]

TH

As for your guess, it was a bad one. I do like American C & W. What does that have to do with the rest of your ill-thought out retort?

You will I am no doubt be aware that C$W has a long tradition of influencing Thai music, especially luktung. Once it's themes were so popular the term cowboy luktung was widely used and american country riffs constantly appeared in some artists work, along with yodeling, the banjo and the full western dress. The most famous singer in this style was awarded an honour by his majesty in the early 90's. The style was also known as phleng ho and is still sometimes used. You must have heard of Hank Williams inspired luktung surely? The most well known modern example I can think of is Mangpor Chonticha's Sao luktung from a couple of years ago.

Edited October 30, 2009 by thai3

[Maigo6]

Anyone who has been living here for a length of time knows that the whole "Thainess" becomes mindnumbing, and not just to falangs, but to Thais.

Is that a fact......

When will this phenomena strike me, I've only been here 19 years, when will it strike ?

[thai3]

I am waiting for them to take on Thai3, without a doubt the worldwide expert on Thai music, acknowledged as such on virtually every forum, including the many where he has been banned.

TH

No shame in being banned from a couple of sex tourist sites for taking the piss out of them surely? Happily the internet has developed beyond that sort of naughty boys behind the bike shed mentality, well it has on some sites, this one included.

If some people had bothered to watch chung tang seang tong this morning on channel 7, instead of posting they could have seen something of one of the best luktung companies-Nopporn Silver Gold, Grammy and R Siam also have almost full time channels on the TV but only covering their own output. Chin cha sawann on Saturday and 94.5 concert on Sundays are other shows. The oldest I think is 7-4 on Saturday mornings, there you will the full range of Thai music given time as it differs from week to week. I am not a worldwide expert as Thaihome says just a fan who goes to a lot of concerts and who knows a lot of singers. If anyone is interested in Morlam see ch 5 at 6.5 PM on Sat, Charlempon, Dogfa and Somjit Bortong will be appearing. if anyone is near Ratburi Nopporn will be holing their annual tambon concert with most of their singers on the same day.

[mrbp]

The one thing that bothers me about this thread in particular is the two main proponents do not actually address the responses to their absurd bias theme but just go on and on with their ridiculous rants which are based on such a limited experience, apparently centered around lower Sukhumivt and the "trendy" clubs there….

I am waiting for them to take on Thai3, without a doubt the worldwide expert on Thai music, acknowledged as such on virtually every forum, including the many where he has been banned.

TH

I have specifically said over and over again that I have searched high and low from jazz clubs in Chiang Mai, parties and clubs on the islands away from the tourists with the Thais, with backpackers and wealthy expats. The trendy clubs were my last port of call.

In almost every venue and community in Thailand whether it's farang or Thai the musical culture is very very narrow indeed. Do I have to say it again?

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAIS OR FARANGS LIKING THAI MUSIC AND SYRUPY COVERS OF MANUFACTURED BOYBANDS I JUST WISH THEY WERE OPEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.

You haven't read my posts at all if you think I'm stuck in Sukhumvit Road badmouthing Thai music because I'm some kind of anti Thai racist.

I started the thread saying how much I love Thailand, I'm just honestly saying I don't like Thai music and openly saying that Thais and the people who visit Thailand are very closed minded about most music.

I love so many different sounds and I dislike a few. In Thailand it's the other way around. It's cool to like a select few manufactured artists and to hel_l with the rest.

Next time read what I say before you go accusing me of sitting on Sukhumvit Road with a closed mind.

Edited October 30, 2009 by mrbp

[dkstoney]

TH

You will I am no doubt be aware that C$W has a long tradition of influencing Thai music, especially luktung. Once it's themes were so popular the term cowboy luktung was widely used and american country riffs constantly appeared in some artists work, along with yodeling, the banjo and the full western dress. The most famous singer in this style was awarded an honour by his majesty in the early 90's. The style was also known as phleng ho and is still sometimes used. You must have heard of Hank Williams inspired luktung surely? The most well known modern example I can think of is Mangpor Chonticha's Sao luktung from a couple of years ago.

Again, the OP isn't saying that all Thai music is bad and I haven't said that either. I also like music from the good old days of Pongsri Woranut and one of my favorite acoustic albums is Jaran Manupet who is now dead. The only thing that you're doing is reinforcing the fact that Thai music has been influenced by Western music more than anyone on this board cares to admit. It's just unfortunate the music industry here chooses to reproduce ad nauseum many stereotypes of western music, i.e.-boy bands, weak pop icons modeled after B. Spears, etc. The music that is being consumed the most is pop and it's fitting for a country mired in commercialism, while denying any pretense for the future betterment of themselves or others, because apparently Thais believe they can exist in a vacuum.

P.S.--You forgot the Mexican roll of the tongue and the "Hay, hay, hay!" At least half of that is here in Thai music too.

[elwood]

Am I the only one that is thankful that my UTD diversion has finally stopped him from complaining about the music scene here?

From a 50-year Liverpool fan; thanks very much and well done

[mrtoad]

Next time read what I say before you go accusing me of sitting on Sukhumvit Road with a closed mind.

Yes, you hang around apartment blocks in provincial towns according to some of your other posts.

[thaihome]

I'm glad we have now been provided with the bar for determing who qualifies as unfeeling, narcissistic, asshol_es who have never had a thought for anyone else in their entire lives. Thank you. One would certainly have to be as you have described to not be affected by the image of handicapped Thai children singing Que Sera Sera and their parents solemnly attuned. However, if you had half a brain, you would understand that that wasn't my point. The song is about not expecting anything from the future and that you should live your life not thinking about the future; not striving for betterment; accepting that the future is COMPLETELY out of our hands. What a horrible sentiment, especially for a nation of people trying to shrug off the remnants of feudal serfdom and pursuing self-determination. Thais aren't singing that song because they have some suddenly realized unspoken sympathy for retarded and disabled children. They're singing because it's on TV, which is the point of this entire thread. It just proves that it has to come from the mainstream media for Thais to accept it in any way, shape, or form.

As for your guess, it was a bad one. I do like American C & W. What does that have to do with the rest of your ill-thought out retort?

Your response only reinforces my perception that you are callous and heartless, going to extraordinary cynical lengths to put everything in an anti-Thai political context. To think this commercial is an attempt to brainwash the masses into accepting a future that is out of their hands is down right pathetic.

I can only guess you have no experience with handicap children and the guilt that the parents must live with every day for bringing them into the world, a world where the child asks every day, why am I different?, why do others make fun of me? (I suspect you probably were one of the kids that did so) Why can’t I go outside and play? The pride shown on the parents faces and joy in children’s to be pleasing their parents is absolutely amazing and to characterize this a cheap propaganda piece aimed at dumbing down the masses is one of the cheapest, most dismal things I have ever seen here.

If not trying to put every single thing I see into a context that allows me to feel superior makes a me a Thai “defender” and “hugger”, then yes I am. The labels alone say much about those who use them to describe others.

Oh, if the C&W comment went over your head, then don't bother. It is explained in other posts.

TH

[mrbp]

Am I the only one that is thankful that my UTD diversion has finally stopped him from complaining about the music scene here?

From a 50-year Liverpool fan; thanks very much and well done

Why are you lot joining a thread about the state of music in Thailand and then moaning that I'm going on about the state of music in Thailand? Are you stoopid or sumfink?

Edited October 30, 2009 by mrbp

[whistleblower]

Thai music hasnt changed for years because their songs (as well as art, dress, culture etc) was stolen from bordering countries (mainly cambodia). As Cambodia hasnt advanced very much in the last 30 odd years, they have nothing new to steal! Their 'new' music is copied from the west. I pmsl every time i see a group of thai guys with baseball caps trying to be hip hop artists. They have no originality in anything they do! Military uniforms - copied from uk/america. Thai law - based on UK law, everything is copied.

And the Eagles are only popular because they were the group of the day when GI's on R & R in Pattaya were turning it into sin city!

[Maigo6]

Next time read what I say before you go accusing me of sitting on Sukhumvit Road with a closed mind.

Yes, you hang around apartment blocks in provincial towns according to some of your other posts.

He's also a well paid and highly sought after DJ as far as I can make out.

Even though he claims his 50,000 collection of vinyl was useless to him in Thailand.

[thaihome]

...I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAIS OR FARANGS LIKING THAI MUSIC AND SYRUPY COVERS OF MANUFACTURED BOYBANDS I JUST WISH THEY WERE OPEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.

..

Ok, Ok, I got it.

A.You don’t like Thai music

B.The Thais you have encountered don’t like the music you like, which you self-describe as the best in the world

C.Therefore Thailand is a music wasteland populated by narrow minded people

I think that pretty much sums up your position, don’t you think?

TH

[mrbp]

Thai music hasnt changed for years because their songs (as well as art, dress, culture etc) was stolen from bordering countries (mainly cambodia). As Cambodia hasnt advanced very much in the last 30 odd years, they have nothing new to steal! Their 'new' music is copied from the west. I pmsl every time i see a group of thai guys with baseball caps trying to be hip hop artists. They have no originality in anything they do! Military uniforms - copied from uk/america. Thai law - based on UK law, everything is copied.

And the Eagles are only popular because they were the group of the day when GI's on R & R in Pattaya were turning it into sin city!

I have to disagree their music is influenced by Laos, China and Cambodia maybe with a little splash of American Country & Western and dash of Indian Bollywood.

Thai law is nothing like British law as it doesn't have a jury system and it is not about guilt or innocence because once your in the system it would be a loss of face for the Thai Royal Police and the whole Thai system to say that someone is innocent after being in the Thai prison system. Thai courts are about punishing people who have been arrested whether they are guilty or innocent. British law is the opposite.

But back on topic you are right about The Eagles but weren't the Yanks also listening to Hendrix and loads of other great stuff. Why did't that stuff catch on?

[thaihome]

...

And the Eagles are only popular because they were the group of the day when GI's on R & R in Pattaya were turning it into sin city!

Great theory, but historically inaccurate. Hotel California was released in 1977. All US bases were closed and all personnel were out of Thailand by 1976.

TH

[mrtoad]

He's also a well paid and highly sought after DJ as far as I can make out.

Even though he claims his 50,000 collection of vinyl was useless to him in Thailand.

I'm not to sure about the well paid bit......

I think it's done me a favour anyway. I'm struggling on 20,000 baht a month and I have been offered 40,000 in BKK. Struggling on low wages in Thailand is no joke. I have friends in Bkk and my weakness for transsexuals is less likely to be public property in a metropolis. I think moving to Bkk would be a good move.

There seems to be a number of holes in his stories

[Maigo6]

I pmsl every time i see a group of thai guys with baseball caps trying to be hip hop artists.

What about the Japanese that do exactly the same thing, or the country Village white English boys doing exactly the same thing, the English white kids trying to speak Jamaican slang thinking it's cool, the English kids that copy David beckhams tattoo style, the skinheads, the mods, the rockers, the teddyboys, Suedeheads, hoodies, chavs, etc etc etc....

Do you laugh at them also ?

And if you do, why do you do it, why not just live and let live, why be so critical of them, maybe they should dress and act just like you, is that what you want ?

Were you born 65 years old ?

The mind boggles.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Maigo6

[whistleblower]

...

And the Eagles are only popular because they were the group of the day when GI's on R & R in Pattaya were turning it into sin city!

Great theory, but historically inaccurate. Hotel California was released in 1977. All US bases were closed and all personnel were out of Thailand by 1976.

TH

I think a lot of them stayed behind!? Certainly the guys in washington square did!!!!

[Maigo6]

He's also a well paid and highly sought after DJ as far as I can make out.

Even though he claims his 50,000 collection of vinyl was useless to him in Thailand.

I'm not to sure about the well paid bit......

I think it's done me a favour anyway. I'm struggling on 20,000 baht a month and I have been offered 40,000 in BKK. Struggling on low wages in Thailand is no joke. I have friends in Bkk and my weakness for transsexuals is less likely to be public property in a metropolis. I think moving to Bkk would be a good move.

There seems to be a number of holes in his stories

Nice research Mr T.

Yet, I actually think he's a very clever guy, he's got a great way with words and is very convincing.

His points of view on the war on drugs were verging on the brilliant.

He/she gets my vote !

Edited October 30, 2009 by Maigo6

[whistleblower]

I pmsl every time i see a group of thai guys with baseball caps trying to be hip hop artists.

What about the Japanese that do exactly the same thing, or the country Village white English boys doing exactly the same thing, the English white kids trying to speak Jamaican slang thinking it's cool, the English kids that copy David beckhams tattoo style, the skinheads, the mods, the rockers, the teddyboys, Suedeheads, hoodies, chavs, etc etc etc....

Do you laugh at them also ?

And if you do, why do you do it, why not just live and let live, why be so critical of them, maybe they should dress and act just like you, is that what you want ?

Was you born 65 years old ?

The mind boggles.

If I was living in Japan and on Japanese Forum, maybe I would! But this is a Thai Forum, so I posted about Thais.

And no, i wasnt born 65 years ago (though it feels like it sometimes)

This is a Thai Forum to discuss opinions, culture differences, what pisses you off etc. Why is it you Thai huggers get so wound up when something negative is said about the thais/thai culture? My wife is Thai and she hates Thai music/Thai t.v. Wanna have a go at her as well???

[mrbp]

...I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAIS OR FARANGS LIKING THAI MUSIC AND SYRUPY COVERS OF MANUFACTURED BOYBANDS I JUST WISH THEY WERE OPEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.

..

Ok, Ok, I got it.

A.You don't like Thai music

B.The Thais you have encountered don't like the music you like, which you self-describe as the best in the world

C.Therefore Thailand is a music wasteland populated by narrow minded people

I think that pretty much sums up your position, don't you think?

TH

Nope, you haven't read my posts if you think that.

When did I say my music was the best in the world? Which genre was I talking about?

I'm bored of repeating myself one last time for you dummy.

I love all different kinds of music from all corners of the globe and my music collection spans over 60 yrs. I have been all over Thailand and met musicians, singers and deejays some of whom have been here for decades and the MASSIVE majority of them agree that Thailand is musically stagnant.

Most Thai people will openly say "Thais don't like music they don't know" and the few Thais I know who do like to be adventurous musically agree with me and all of the people I have met.

Almost everyone who is involved in the music insustry creativley in Thailand will say pretty much the same things as me so it's not just my limited experience it's a massive well of experience.

I'm not an anti Thai racist or a narrow minded arrogant pro Western nut job I just started this thread because Thailand is uniquely unadventurous musically.

I'm an open minded person who wishes there was more openmindedness around thats all.

Other than that I LOVE THAILAND

Read before you write

Edited October 30, 2009 by mrbp

[mrbp]

What has my sexuality got to do with this thread Toad you idiot?

[mrtoad]

What has my sexuality got to do with this thread Toad you idiot?

Nothing about sexuality sir, think you are missing the point. Just there are a number of hole in your stories about what you claim to be - one minute an international DJ, and the next a teacher in a provincial town. No problems with either.

Onto the music, really I can see what you get so beat up about in respect of the "void" that you say is in the music. You are in Thailand, if you are a DJ then you need to play the music that appeals to your punters, not what just appeals to you.

[Maigo6]

What has my sexuality got to do with this thread Toad you idiot?

I love this thread......................

[mrtoad]

What has my sexuality got to do with this thread Toad you idiot?

I love this thread......................

It's good isn't it?

[bkkjames]

What has my sexuality got to do with this thread Toad you idiot?

Glory glory man utd ... and the reds go marching on, on, on!

Heard that in hi-so club in Soi Cowboy once. Classics never go out of style mate.

[mrtoad]

What has my sexuality got to do with this thread Toad you idiot?

Glory glory man utd ... and the reds go marching on, on, on!

Heard that in hi-so club in Soi Cowboy once. Classics never go out of style mate.

Which Hi-So club in Cowboy is that James? The one that charges 700 baht as opposed to 500 baht for a bar fine?