Thai-cambodian Relations

[rixalex]

How many countries in the world would like a neighbour to appoint an ex-politco convicted of a crime and sought for extradtion as an adviser and how would the hurt country react?

None to the first question, decisively and swifty to the second.

Had Abhisit simply ignored Hun Sen's move as being unimportant, the same members here who are now jumping up and down saying he has over-reacted, would be jumping up and down saying he is weak and fearful.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

Thaksin is a Thai civilian No political p0st anywhere, a fugitive criminal on the run, his No 1 ambition is to try his best to bring down the Thai Gov by any means whatsoever ,continuous propergander via videolink and Television, rallying the redshirts to commit violence against the Thai people and allegidly the odd bomb, If this is not treasonous behaviour ,What is? The Thai Government needs to get tough with this man. He has gone way to far already, and must be stopped.

phupaman

[Siripon]

what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see.

Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel?

Following a snap poll of 7 caddies on a local golf course.

Results from 1 month ago:

Popularity-Thaksin 100%- Abhisit- what/where is that?

Results from Friday

Popularity Thaksin 100% -Abhisit - what/where is that? And what/who is a Cambodia?

So little change here, we will conduct a similar survey next month.

Disclaimer;

We cannot guarantee the results of this poll as the questions were asked in English and the answers were given in Thai and the results are based on what we thought the caddies said.

i didn't realise the people of Chiang Mai were so ignorant they didn't even know what Cambodia is. That would explain their previous support for Thaksin.

[Siripon]

The Nation

...

Responding later by video conference to questions from reporters at Government House, Abhisit said: " It was not Thailand that had started it [the current dispute] - it was the Cambodians.

Therefore, it is they who have to review their position. Right now, we are adopting a wait-and-see approach."

When asked if he had spoken to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen at an official dinner last night in Tokyo, Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.

did he said that? " there was a vase between them obstructing his view."? really?

Difficult for Apisit to talk to Hun Sen as Hun Sen only speaks Khmer, no English or Thai.

I wonder if his interpreter always translates correctly?

[MUYTHAI]

Hi All.

Thaksin is a Thai civilian No political p0st anywhere, a fugitive criminal on the run, his No 1 ambition is to try his best to bring down the Thai Gov by any means whatsoever ,continuous propergander via videolink and Television, rallying the redshirts to commit violence against the Thai people and allegidly the odd bomb, If this is not treasonous behaviour ,What is? The Thai Government needs to get tough with this man. He has gone way to far already, and must be stopped.

phupaman

What superhero should we call upon?

Maybe not a superhero...maybe Underdog?

Or Ultraman?

I know...

Call in Barney Fife!

[phupaman]

Hi All.

Maybe just 1oz of lead!!!!!!

Phupaman

[Meridian007]

Abhisit's reaction can be debated either way, but I doubt that there will be any heated conflict before Nov. 15 (when Obama comes to meet with ASEAN).

This situation and Abhisit's reaction, greatly assists him nationally (whether the irrational dislike between the countries is a positive thing or not, I won't posit here), but this does somewhat hurt his position within ASEAN. While the other leaders know what kind of person and leader Hun Sen is (and therefore have sympathy for Abhisit), ASEAN focuses on keeping this facade of unity intact, so there will be pressure on Abhisit to be patient with Hun Sen.

Nationally, Abhisit wins more popularity the more he can be seen as "defending Thailand". Thaksin only wins from this in that he gets carte blanche in a country that allows for his form of cronyism. Maybe he has given up on coming back? Otherwise, as I said earlier, I can't wait to see how Jatuporn will spin this to rile up the red shirts. I can't see any way that this could do anything but label Thaksin as a traitor to the Thai people, but then again, TiT - anything can be spun.

[Huey]

Mark have no guts to speak to Hun Sen face to face.

They just met and dine together only a week or two ago.

The two never spoke (or harly spoke).

All that the Thai government PR said was that everything was already cleared, it was a small misunderstanding.

Question is: Why is Mark afraid to speak to Hun Sen, or will that make Mark "Loss Face".

Question: Will Mark speak to Hun Sen in Japan (this week), or will that make Mark "Loss Face" too?

He's not scared are you kidding me? Hun Sen is a political thug like Taksin with even less tact or class (if such a thing is possible). In any sort of verbal confrontation Markbama would make him look like a illiterate peasant. It's just that he knows better than to argue with a fool. He would have nothing to gain politicaly, while Hun Sen would gain legitamancy by even being formaly addressed along these lines by his betters. And Abhisit is clearly his better.

[Huey]

Hi All.

What would Thaksins position be if a real shooting war broke out between Thailand and Cambodia?

He has really compromised himself on this one, What do you think he will advise Hun Sen?

I say treat him the same as the UK treated Lord Haw Haw after the last war,What do any country do to traitors and failed revolution leader's? Answer Swift Execution.

phupaman

Exactly. It would almost be like Bush going to advise Iran on their nuclear program or something. Even as messed up as Bush was, and I hated bush, even he's better than that.

[Publicus]

Thaksin is now an official of the government of Cambodia, attached to the Office of the Prime Minister. The appointment's been made. If Thaksin has an oath of office, Thaksin will be (is?) loyal to the Crown of Cambodia.

How many Thais have managed such a feat?

Which Thai wants such fame........or notoriety?

[hammered]

Thaksin is now an official of the government of Cambodia, attached to the Office of the Prime Minister. The appointment's been made. If Thaksin has an oath of office, Thaksin will be (is?) loyal to the Crown of Cambodia.

How many Thais have managed such a feat?

Which Thai wants such fame........or notoriety?

Could possibly have been worse by declaring allegiance to Burma.

Thai nationalism whatever we think of the phenomenon is poltically important. Thaksin has potentially shot his own foot off. that however depends on the government scoring a PR win. That is something they seldom excel at. Interesting to watch

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Could possibly have been worse by declaring allegiance to Burma.

Thai nationalism whatever we think of the phenomenon is poltically important. Thaksin has potentially shot his own foot off. that however depends on the government scoring a PR win. That is something they seldom excel at. Interesting to watch

Whatever gives you that idea? (Oh wait.. Sigh. People: use the Nation and BK Post as your only news sources at your peril, because they prefer to serve you spin (Yet Another of their 'Polls') instead of news reports.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/200...eport-says.html

Interestingly, The Nation had the audacity to make disparaging comments about there not being a free press in Cambodia, even though the facts are that Cambodia is actually doing BETTER in an international ranking of countries for press freedom than Thailand is currenlty. (Which is bad enough in itself, but another topic)

[Meridian007]

That freedom of the press ranking was (at least partially) due to charges being placed against someone in the foreign journalist club for distributing a dvd of false (and badly created) quotes from the government. While it wasn't an ideal situation, the information was false which moves things into the realm of journalistic integrity, and at least gives a reason for the action. The club hasn't forgiven this, hence the influence on the ranking. Pen mightier than the sword, and all that...

(if I remember correctly, it was a while ago but I remember there being a few posts about it)

As depressing as the state of democracy and public freedom is here, it is nothing in comparison to the sham of a democracy in Cambodia. As well, freedom is enjoyed in Cambodia only by those who can pay their way towards it. (which is also true here, but comparatively much less than in Cambodia)

Edited November 7, 2009 by Meridian007

[Yoshitaka]

What relation. There never was.

" But, with Thailand having always treated Cambodia like a third-class citizen . . ."

http://www.examiner.com/x-26647-Asia-Trave...dor-to-Cambodia

[Rumfoord]

The Nation

...

Responding later by video conference to questions from reporters at Government House, Abhisit said: " It was not Thailand that had started it [the current dispute] - it was the Cambodians.

Therefore, it is they who have to review their position. Right now, we are adopting a wait-and-see approach."

When asked if he had spoken to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen at an official dinner last night in Tokyo, Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.

did he said that? " there was a vase between them obstructing his view."? really?

Difficult for Apisit to talk to Hun Sen as Hun Sen only speaks Khmer, no English or Thai.

I wonder if his interpreter always translates correctly?

Hun Sen don't have that prestige education of Abhisit, but basics in how to survive lifes basics, jungle war and took lessons in bamboo communistics in Vietnam.

I don't know how many languages Abhisits speaks, but he could also have his own multilingual interpreter by the side if he don't trust a Cambodian one, who maybe got not all correctly.

i wanted to point out something else.

what bemazed me. it is the line: "Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view."

Scenario: Abhisit and Hun Sen are in Tokyo, attending the Japan + Mekong (Sub) Region Summit. Hosted by the Japanese PM the guests are the PM of Myanmar, Vietnam, Laos and of course Thailand and Cambodia. Sitting on a round tables and posing for photographs holding hands each other.

Meeting abroad, on a third-party floor, one could think, that is a place where they could talk to each other or just ignoring each other the diplomatic way. Abhisit optioned for the latter, ignore. Don't talk to each the other and ignore the other at a Meeting or any social event violates some basic social and diplomatic rules of communication.

Anyway, that can be justified with a 'diplomatic excuse', a face-saver for all concerned. or at least a excuse for the observers at home. There are also some issues that they really should talk, instead of overreacting.

A goal orientated Abhist could have should had approach Hun Sen, but he didn't talk with Hun Sen, didn't even had a chance to talk with Hun Sen. Why: there was a vase between them obstructing his view.

Did he meant that literal or is that some kind of idiom i don't get because i am not a native Thai or English speaker?

there was a vase between them obstructing his view??? I found that odd and it sounds highly surrealistic to me.

Impossible-to-talk-a-vase-between-us it beats the dog-ate-my-homework excuse, in its literal meaning. But the problem solution would be very easy in that case, a vase can not really inhibits talks, only in a script for a teenager comedy about shy adolescents or otherwise challenged Forrest Gump alike characters. In reality it is a lame and flimsy excuse, unbelievable that somebody would came up seriously with such an explanation.

there was a vase between them obstructing his view beats me. my first thoughts have been: "<deleted>???", "", "5555" and "Awesome!"

the line kept spinning around my head and i came to the conclusion that i don't get it. this is one of the proverbial "You will never understand it, because ..." moments. magic moments. now i am impressed by it, there was a vase between them obstructing his view is poetic. Unbelievable. senseless beauty.

It inspired me to take this line and create on of this card/posters, that floating all over the internet and doesn't make much sense to me too, but there is some-kind of urge that make me look at them. i have to admit: my card narrows and confined the possible meaning of the phrase there was a vase between them obstructing his view

ps. it is probably more an issue how The Nation creates its content and text. and how Abhisit only got half quoted, filtrated and that explanation in its original context, spoken at the video conference, looks different than the condensed version in The Nation. lost in transliteration and lost in transmission. who knows?

there is always more than one interpretation possible, that makes text and language fascinating. much more tricky than a gimmicky turnery of a Gestalt-psychologist and its shadow.

[seri thai]

Maritime pact scrapped

Thailand yesterday terminated the memorandum of understanding on overlapping maritime areas with Cambodia that was signed during Thaksin Shinawatra's administration in 2001.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he was adopting a "wait-and-see" approach on the current conflict with the neighbouring country.

The 26,000-square-kilometre area, with abundant natural gas, is regarded as being in Thailand's national interest and everyone involved should participate in the development of the resource in accordance with the new Constitution, he said.

The Cabinet will discuss the MoU's termination next week and will inform Phnom Penh at an early opportunity, Kasit added.

It's no wonder the dispute exists as long as the Cambodia thinks their maritime border juts out at a right angle immediately where the sea starts. It just thinly misses encompassing the the chain of islands of Koh Chang in this bizarre and absurd and unrealistic expectation of theirs.

A truly amazing claim.

Not so amazing if you understand it.

The demarkation is based on how each nation defines its territorial waters where they share a gulf of water. The thai claim follows the contour of the east coast of thailand roughly from Hua-Hin to the Malay border.

If I were on the ICJ I'd say both claims are over-reaching (as all boundary disputes are) and that the fair division is to bisect the opposing claims (which is what they'd both expect when a deal is reached) Then again a big part of the issue is that Thailand does not respect the ICJ's ruling on Preah Viharn either (which as UN members they are obliged to do)

Of course the area in dispute is known to contain important oil and gas deposits and the existing deposits already developed on the Thai side are nearing depletion....

Kasit aside, Thais like their self-image as diplomats instead of rapcious land-grabbers and are renowned for selective historical interpretation. For all the bleating about colonial powers, they've been biting big chunks out of each other for centuries and haven't stopped yet. Add to this the long-standing belief within the glittering classes that they are the true bloodline descendants of the Angkor kings and the dirty little peasants inhabiting Cambodia are but recent immigrants squatting on hallowed ground. The only reason it's not a shooting war yet is that Cambodia is now considered by the rest of the world as a fledgling democracy and the Thais no longer have the military support of a) Japan or the USA, to bolster their ambition.

INTERESTING TIMES indeed.

p.s Would anyone on Thaivisa in the know let me know the purpose of Kasit "wash my feet in Hun sens blood" Piromya s unreported visit to Koh Kong in April this year?

Edited November 8, 2009 by seri thai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Racking up nationalist hysteria, obviously. It makes sense from where he's coming from.

[simon43]

Rumfoord, I fear that you are reading too much between the lines here...

Mark meant that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.

You think too mut

Simon

[PhootThaiMaiDai]

Aiding and abetting a country with an active border dispute with your nation. This ain't like a Canadian going to work in Washington as an adviser. More like Argentina and Venezuela....

Wow, Argentina and Venezuela must have worked seriously hard to create that border dispute, given that they are 2000 kilometers away from one another....

Guessing he meant Venezuela and Columbia...

[SantiSuk]

what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see.

Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel?

Following a snap poll of 7 caddies on a local golf course.

Results from 1 month ago:

Popularity-Thaksin 100%- Abhisit- what/where is that?

Results from Friday

Popularity Thaksin 100% -Abhisit - what/where is that? And what/who is a Cambodia?

So little change here, we will conduct a similar survey next month.

Disclaimer;

We cannot guarantee the results of this poll as the questions were asked in English and the answers were given in Thai and the results are based on what we thought the caddies said.

i didn't realise the people of Chiang Mai were so ignorant they didn't even know what Cambodia is. That would explain their previous support for Thaksin.

Just shows that golf dulls the brain. OK cheap shot - actually I quite like the game

[phupaman]

Hi All.

Not very much news or opinions from the usual Thaksin supporters in the last few days??

It looks like his mouth has run to fast this time, Maybe all for nothing.

phupaman.

[dumball]

That freedom of the press ranking was (at least partially) due to charges being placed against someone in the foreign journalist club for distributing a dvd of false (and badly created) quotes from the government. While it wasn't an ideal situation, the information was false which moves things into the realm of journalistic integrity, and at least gives a reason for the action. The club hasn't forgiven this, hence the influence on the ranking. Pen mightier than the sword, and all that...

(if I remember correctly, it was a while ago but I remember there being a few posts about it)

As depressing as the state of democracy and public freedom is here, it is nothing in comparison to the sham of a democracy in Cambodia. As well, freedom is enjoyed in Cambodia only by those who can pay their way towards it. (which is also true here, but comparatively much less than in Cambodia)

What on earth are you talking about , I have not noticed one solitary Kymer walking around in chains , neither mentaly or physically , as for claiming only those that can afford freedom could enjoy it , you would be refering to a mere 10/15% of Cambodia . The majority of Kymer live outside of the city in an atmosphere of friendly , helpfull neighbours , they show little concern to what ever the powers that be do or say , life goes on in the same primitive manner(more or less) as it has done for many a year gone by .

[animatic]

There are still relations in incest,

but that doesn't mean they are GOOD relations.

Business will over-ride the verbiage for a time,

but Thaksin is so close to cause trouble he now can and now will.

Money on tyhe line he surely will. Hun Sen is polishing his

he-man nationalist credentials at home. While not doubt turning a profit

at Thaksin's expense, and building bargaining chips for the temple and oil deals.

Sure he NOW has Thaksin as an employee, if Thaksin prevails, he owes Hun Sen big time,

if he totally screws the pooch, he is an easy sale to 'a close neighbor',

and can greatly improve 'relations', once Thaksin proves a loser and is

essentially expendable except as hostage for sale.

He who trusts Hun Sen is a poor fool, in for a bumpy ride,

if there is anything counter to influence Hun Sen's calculations.