Fines For Traffic Offences 'too Weak'

[george]

Fines for traffic offences 'too weak'

BANGKOK: -- Nearly 80 per cent of motorcyclists run against traffic and only 46 per cent wear a helmet, according to a survey.

Dr Thanapong Jinwong, manager of the National Health Foundation's Road Safety Academic Project, cited a Suan Dusit Poll yesterday as finding that many of the 1,172 motorists questioned nationwide believe the current punishment for drunk driving - a Bt5,000 fine and suspended jail term - was not a strong enough deterrent. The fine should be higher and the jail term should not be suspended, they said.

They also thought that those caught for speeding should have their driver's licence confiscated and that all key roads should have speed-reading cameras installed.

About 59 per cent of the respondents admitted that they had been involved in a road accident, mostly due to reckless driving (39 per cent), followed by poor visibility (13 per cent) and violations of traffic laws (12 per cent).

-- The Nation 2009-11-15

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[mca]

They also thought that those caught for speeding should have their driver's licence confiscated

Yeah that'll stop them driving and riding.

I think in a country where I quite often see police officers riding with no safety helmets through the centre of town it's a case of take the rule book and thrown it in the bin.

[wildoates]

so they get a ticket for not having a driving license??

[gotlost]

This has to be a joke, yes?

[brahmburgers]

Here we go again. ...the 874 reasons why Thais are awful drivers.

Let the fireworks begin.

talk talk talk of tickets. I don't know about elsewhere in Thailand, but here in northernmost Thailand, there are essentially no tickets given. You don't even have to be VIP to avoid being ticketed. You can drive as fast as you want, cut corners, run red lights, you name it, no one gets moving violation tickets here. It's totally nuts.

[Pitbullman1]

There appears to be no seriousness when it comes to policing Traffic laws and promoting road safety in this country. In the UK it costs millions of £'s to investigate (thoroughly) Serious and fatal road traffic collisions. This doesn't appear to be the case here. And as someone correctly pointed out the Police are the worst offenders when it comes to comitting the Traffic laws of this land.

A fatal collison is never really investigated and dealt with as it should be. The Police attend the scene, spray paint a yellow line around the body and vehicles and that is it. It's then left up to the people involved and the Insurance companies to sort the rest of the matter out.

I could go on forever about traffic laws and how they are flouted by the youth of today who has no cares in life.

[Mario2008]

Can't deny there is a problem with road safty in Thailand. calling for higer punishemtn is not going to work. If they want to decrease the number of casualties nothing will work better than strictly enforcing the rules. The best deterrent against crimes is and will always be a high risk of getting caught.

[culicine]

Can't deny there is a problem with road safty in Thailand. calling for higer punishemtn is not going to work. If they want to decrease the number of casualties nothing will work better than strictly enforcing the rules. The best deterrent against crimes is and will always be a high risk of getting caught.

Yes the problem is with law enforcement and not with the fine. Fining every motorcyclist 500 baht for no helmet (payable at the police station to receive back their licence)....enforce this on every motorist all the time. Problem solved. No licence = fine and loss of vehicle. Thais should consider themselves lucky when they consider the max penalty in NSW Australia for speeding is over 2000 dollars!

[sinbin]

I believe the current going penalty for drink driving is 8,000 Baht, 16 hours community service and 3 years probation.

[Mrjlh]

Just think of the "money" that would be generated if the Thais would simply establish a "real traffic" enforcement team and enforce just the basic traffic laws, like it is done in many western countries. Real traffic cops, real fines, and real traffic courts. They would all be driving new cars, get paid a decent wage, and traffic deaths would drop. In one way over regulation is bad but one the other side, you'd be able to drive somewhere not worrying how much you will be paying for other guys mistake or stupidity.

[Hardback]

What fines?

[caf]

Can't deny there is a problem with road safty in Thailand. calling for higer punishemtn is not going to work. If they want to decrease the number of casualties nothing will work better than strictly enforcing the rules. The best deterrent against crimes is and will always be a high risk of getting caught.

I completly agree

The percentage of riders with no helmets is much higher than 46% in Chiangmai I would guess though, from casual observation.

And when many are working for 100 baht 150 baht a day, fines can never work. which is why i suppose it can't get enforced. Culicine mentioned fines

maybe enforcing more violations and giving more warnings would be a more effective deterrent.

community service??? or would that become a loss of face issue. ?

i know there are cases in china where illegal hawkers have their wares and bicycle confiscated and they end up having to walk quite a distance to reclaim( not traffic violation related but indicative of a method of law enforcement)

Edited November 15, 2009 by caf

[sinbin]

Just think of the "money" that would be generated if the Thais would simply establish a "real traffic" enforcement team and enforce just the basic traffic laws, like it is done in many western countries. Real traffic cops, real fines, and real traffic courts. They would all be driving new cars, get paid a decent wage, and traffic deaths would drop. In one way over regulation is bad but one the other side, you'd be able to drive somewhere not worrying how much you will be paying for other guys mistake or stupidity.

That would mean that the cops would have to think on their feet, instead of being told what to do. It ain't going to happen.

[Mrjlh]

Just think of the "money" that would be generated if the Thais would simply establish a "real traffic" enforcement team and enforce just the basic traffic laws, like it is done in many western countries. Real traffic cops, real fines, and real traffic courts. They would all be driving new cars, get paid a decent wage, and traffic deaths would drop. In one way over regulation is bad but one the other side, you'd be able to drive somewhere not worrying how much you will be paying for other guys mistake or stupidity.

That would mean that the cops would have to think on their feet, instead of being told what to do. It ain't going to happen.

That would be a start. With a little encouragement...it might even catch on.....But...I doubt it!

[sinbin]

i know there are cases in china where illegal hawkers have their wares and bicycle confiscated and they end up having to walk quite a distance to reclaim( not traffic violation related but indicative of a method of law enforcement)

That reminds me of when I was in India. A 'Tri-shaw' driver had parked up in a wrong place. A policeman just undid all of the valves on the wheels and threw them away. I thought it to be a good form of punishment.

[givenall]

They also thought that those caught for speeding should have their driver's licence confiscated

Yeah that'll stop them driving and riding.

I think in a country where I quite often see police officers riding with no safety helmets through the centre of town it's a case of take the rule book and thrown it in the bin.

What do you mean by survey. Just go out and open eyes and see this. I guess people believe thing only when someone else tell them in the news or tv

[bobonzo]

I've lived all over the world and every place I've been, non-locals always says 'these people are the worse drivers ever!' and 'the police here do nothing about bad drivers'...please, get a life.

[bikerman]

Can't deny there is a problem with road safty in Thailand. calling for higer punishemtn is not going to work. If they want to decrease the number of casualties nothing will work better than strictly enforcing the rules. The best deterrent against crimes is and will always be a high risk of getting caught.

I completly agree

The percentage of riders with no helmets is much higher than 46% in Chiangmai I would guess though, from casual observation.

And when many are working for 100 baht 150 baht a day, fines can never work. which is why i suppose it can't get enforced. Culicine mentioned fines

maybe enforcing more violations and giving more warnings would be a more effective deterrent.

community service??? or would that become a loss of face issue. ?

i know there are cases in china where illegal hawkers have their wares and bicycle confiscated and they end up having to walk quite a distance to reclaim( not traffic violation related but indicative of a method of law enforcement)

When I was in Vietnam riders wore helmets all the time, if your caught without helmet or no documents then bike your is loaded onto police wagon and taken away not chance to pay on the spot fine. If you want bike back costs money also time to collect so this method seems to work as you see rider with helmets on, shopping, in cafes, or even just walking down the road.

[Teddy3943]

It's much simpeler than now is considered. Rewrite a comprehensive set of traffic rules (ask help from the western countries with a low figure of traffic deaths). Print it and dispatch it together with the warning that strict enforcement wil be undertaken from a certain date. So, in the mean time, the police officers can learn also what the rules are. Now many of them don't know anything and don't act accordingly to any rule.

After the new rules are being launched the strict way to do is confiscating the vehicle for a certain period and until paying the fine it will not be returned. All transport costs and storing of the vehicles have to be paid too. It requires a new kind of organising of the police and their logistics, but this kind of new spirit will help the police to wake up from a long wintersleep.

However, I doubt there is enough power and progressive spirit to undertake such a reorganisation...

[neverdie]

Can't deny there is a problem with road safty in Thailand. calling for higer punishemtn is not going to work. If they want to decrease the number of casualties nothing will work better than strictly enforcing the rules. The best deterrent against crimes is and will always be a high risk of getting caught.

I agree with you partly mario, you are right that a great deterrent against crimes is the risk of being caught, but you need more than just ENFORCEMENT when it comes to these issues.

In various parts of the 'west' when the powers to be discuss road safety they often refer to the 3 E's, thats, Education, Enforcement and Engineering. All of these three areas need to be addressed when it comes to these types of issues. One of the three that I see is sadly lacking is the great need for Education.

The way I see it is theres not enough Police out there enforcing the rulz and secondly the standard of education involved when people obtain licences here is very low, then theres the hundreds of thousands of people (possibly millions) that are floating around the place that are either unlicensed for any given number of reasons, including many which are too young to get a license.

The Police here certainly appear to have the numbers to conduct enforcement, its just many of them are too busy conducting other business to worry about that sort of thing

[neverdie]

so they get a ticket for not having a driving license??

Just the same as in many other parts of the world.....just a ticket.

[Dpolenz]

I see The Police driving around many times in pattaya without there helmets on,Shouldnt they be the ones setting an example.

[way2muchcoffee]

The problem with any kind of increased enforcement/fines is the monetary cost to the poor. A person earning only 200 bt/day will only have perhaps a few hundred baht monthly in their discretionary spending budget, no savings, and no protection or security against emergencies. So this will adversely effect the poor considerably more than the middle or upper classes. It's akin to a regressive system of taxation. All of this is especially true as the current MO of the BiB is to unfairly target motorcycles, i.e. the common Somchai who is barely eeking out an existence.

Edited November 15, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[bellste]

 When it comes to motorbikes, running on the wrong side of the road, one could also mention; talking on thetelephone while driving, driving on pavements, parking everywhere,three or four on one motorbike including babies, illegal side-cars,faulty or modified exhaust pipes (noise), etc. etc. 

What's done with that? Next to nothing,they mostly not even get stopped. 

Edited November 15, 2009 by bellste

[katai]

Be careful with what you wish. One of the main reason i came to Thailand 9 years ago was because there was more personal freedom here ( I am not speaking about politics here ).

Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country or I will have to move on.

[Mrjlh]

Maybe instead of trying to enforce every rule which will not happen. Start drivers safety training at an early age in schools, teaching young students the importance of safe driving. Start with very simple safety ideas at an early age. Then progress up thru the school grades and even into college. Maybe end with a required final drivers safety class at the age of say 15-16 years. Over time you will have at least some of the drivers thinking more about safe driving than just getting on a bike or in a car and zipping off down the road.

[Bearnagh]

Some of what is being said here above I competely agree with. There certainly does need to be a serious tightening of traffic law enforcement. But first those laws need to be understood by the drivers. I think that there needs to be a proper education programme for drivers. It needs to be mandatory. It will also cost real money. Many of the drivers here (I can only speak for Chiangmai) commit serious offences every day, endangering themselves and all around them and are quite oblivious to the fact that they've done anything wrong.... because, to put it simply, they don't know any better.

At present the Thai "driving test" is little more than a farce and many drivers have no licence anyway and have no particular incentive to get one... In some of the tambons north of CM I have seen children driving trucks and bikes just as soon as their feet will reach the pedals.

Here's a thought 'off the cuff'... What if some those thousands of people around Thailand who are presently in boring civil service type 'jobs for the sake of it' were to be re-trained as traffic cops... wouldn't that be a better spend of public money that would also begin to address the crisis?

[Naiplan]

The problem with any kind of increased enforcement/fines is the monetary cost to the poor. A person earning only 200 bt/day will only have perhaps a few hundred baht monthly in their discretionary spending budget, no savings, and no protection or security against emergencies. So this will adversely effect the poor considerably more than the middle or upper classes. It's akin to a regressive system of taxation. All of this is especially true as the current MO of the BiB is to unfairly target motorcycles, i.e. the common Somchai who is barely eeking out an existence.

Very simple, don't commit the crime = don't pay any fine.

[way2muchcoffee]

Very simple, don't commit the crime = don't pay any fine.

Perhaps a sliding scale then. Pay a fine base on you income, and the relative effect paying that fine will have on your quality of life. You earn 100,000 baht monthly then the fine is related to your disposable income, ability to save, and effect on quality of life. Say perhaps 200,000 bt or higher. You earn 5,000 per month and your fine is 100 bt.

Edited November 15, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[Bearnagh]

Perhaps a sliding scale then. Pay a fine base on you income, and the relative effect paying that fine will have on your quality of life. You earn 100,000 baht monthly then the fine is related to your disposable income, ability to save, and effect on quality of life. Say perhaps 200,000 bt or higher. You earn 5,000 per month and your fine is 100 bt.

Seems like a good starting point. Isn't this more or less what happens in Europe?