Destined To Meet (and Marry)

[Xangsamhua]

How do you spell in Thai the phrase that sounds to me like "boop phae saniwaat" and means "fate, or destiny, can't be denied"?

I've heard the phrase used many times to refer to a married couple (e.g Thai wife/Foreign husband) who were destined to meet and marry despite being born and raised so far apart.

I heard it initially in Lao contexts, but I believe the phrase is used in Thai also.

[DavidHouston]

The answer to your question is "ปุพเพสันนิวาส"

And, this explanation from http://tsaj.org/smf/index.php?topic=4023.0 :

คู่แท้หรือคู่ปุพเพสันนิวาสนั้นหมายถึงคู่ที่เคยร่วมสุขร่วมทุกข์กันใน อดีตชาติ พระพุทธเจ้าตรัสเอาไว้ว่าความรักเกิดจากสาเหตุสองประการประการที่หนึ่ง เคยอยู่ร่วมกันในชาติก่อน (ปุพเพสันนิวาส) ประการที่สอง เกื้อกูลหรือช่วยเหลือกันในปัจจุบัน

"The true match or the couple fated to be together means that couple who have been through thick and thin in a previous life. The Buddha teaches that love arises from two sources: 1. the two were together in a prior life (pbuphesanniwat) and, 2. are supporting and helping each other in this current [life]."

What do you think?

[Xangsamhua]

The answer to your question is "ปุพเพสันนิวาส"

And, this explanation from http://tsaj.org/smf/index.php?topic=4023.0 :

คู่แท้หรือคู่ปุพเพสันนิวาสนั้นหมายถึงคู่ที่เคยร่วมสุขร่วมทุกข์กันใน อดีตชาติ พระพุทธเจ้าตรัสเอาไว้ว่าความรักเกิดจากสาเหตุสองประการประการที่หนึ่ง เคยอยู่ร่วมกันในชาติก่อน (ปุพเพสันนิวาส) ประการที่สอง เกื้อกูลหรือช่วยเหลือกันในปัจจุบัน

"The true match or the couple fated to be together means that couple who have been through thick and thin in a previous life. The Buddha teaches that love arises from two sources: 1. the two were together in a prior life (pbuphesanniwat) and, 2. are supporting and helping each other in this current [life]."

What do you think?

Thank you very much, David.

What do I think? I think that's a pretty good explanation. I wasn't aware that it was based on the Buddha's teaching.

Is ปุพเพสันนิวาส, then, a Pali-derived phrase? And is it actually a phrase or a compound noun meaning "together in a previous life"?

[DavidHouston]

Khun Yoot pointed out to me my PM that my spelling was incorrect. The correct spelling should be, as in Lexitron:

บุพเพสันนิวาส [N] state of being husband and wife in the past life; husband and wife in previous existence; become a married couple by will of heaven

My error was with the first letter. (Note that the poster at the website also spelled the word incorrectly) Thank you, Khun Yoot.

________________________________

Ah Ha! (โอโห) I now see the spelling issue starkly. From the RID:

บุพเพสันนิวาส[บุบเพ-] น. การเคยเป็นเนื้อคู่กัน, การเคยอยู่ร่วมกันในชาติก่อน.

(ป. ปุพฺเพสนฺนิวาส).

Note that the Thai uses "บ" whereas the Pali source uses "ป".

Edited November 27, 2009 by DavidHouston

[Jangot]

In the same theme, I think, can you tell me what is the meaning of "neerguul" or neerkool" - sorry I have not yet grasped Thai, and that is the nearest I can render it.

Thanks,

[Rikker]

Are you talking about นิรคุณ? It means (1) lacking in worthwhile qualities; vile, evil; or alternately (2) ungrateful, lacking gratitude (also spelled เนรคุณ)? (Both come from Sanskrit niraguna.)

Or are you talking about a different word?

[yoot]

In the same theme, I think, can you tell me what is the meaning of "neerguul" or neerkool" - sorry I have not yet grasped Thai, and that is the nearest I can render it.

Thanks,

เนื้อคู่ (néua kôo) - soul mate.

[Richard W]

Are you talking about นิรคุณ? It means (1) lacking in worthwhile qualities; vile, evil; or alternately (2) ungrateful, lacking gratitude (also spelled เนรคุณ)? (Both come from Sanskrit niraguna.)

The Sanskrit is actually nirguNa - Thai has inserted a vowel after the /r/. The RID is notorious for overlooking such minor changes in its etymological notes.

[Harcourt]

Khun Yoot pointed out to me my PM that my spelling was incorrect. The correct spelling should be, as in Lexitron:

บุพเพสันนิวาส [N] state of being husband and wife in the past life; husband and wife in previous existence; become a married couple by will of heaven

My error was with the first letter. (Note that the poster at the website also spelled the word incorrectly) Thank you, Khun Yoot.

________________________________

Ah Ha! (โอโห) I now see the spelling issue starkly. From the RID:

บุพเพสันนิวาส[บุบเพ-] น. การเคยเป็นเนื้อคู่กัน, การเคยอยู่ร่วมกันในชาติก่อน.

(ป. ปุพฺเพสนฺนิวาส).

Note that the Thai uses "บ" whereas the Pali source uses "ป".

Another spelling question. I'm just learning the alphabet so I am confused about the last character in the phrase "บุพเพสันนิวาส". so seua ส , is transliterated here with a "t" sound.

I suspect the answer will also explain why some people transliterate the greeting, "sawatdee" as "sawasdee".

[Jangot]

In the same theme, I think, can you tell me what is the meaning of "neerguul" or neerkool" - sorry I have not yet grasped Thai, and that is the nearest I can render it.

Thanks,

เนื้อคู่ (néua kôo) - soul mate.

Thanks, that would be it.

[RickBradford]

so seua ส , is transliterated here with a "t" sound

From TL-C: "Further complicating matters is the fact that the "phone" or sound of a Thai consonant depends on whether it appears in the beginning ("initial") or ending ("final") position of a syllable. Unsophisticated transliteration systems don't account for this, which is why you sometimes see the Thai greeting สวัสดี transliterated as, "sa was dee" rather than "sa wat dee;" the ส character is pronounced with an /-s/ as an initial, and with a /-t/ sound as a final."

More on this from the source here.

Another similar example, with a different 's' consonant, is อังกฤษ 'Ang-grit'.

Edited November 28, 2009 by RickBradford

[Harcourt]

Thanks.

[Rikker]

The Sanskrit is actually nirguNa - Thai has inserted a vowel after the /r/. The RID is notorious for overlooking such minor changes in its etymological notes.

Thanks, Richard. My mistake on the inserted a. As for the n, I don't like the Harvard-Kyoto system, so instead of busting out BabelMap to copy the n-underdot, I opted for lazy inaccuracy.

All for naught, though, as it turns out I was way off guessing what "neerakool" was supposed to mean!

[oevna]

I wasn't aware that it was based on the Buddha's teaching.

Is ปุพเพสันนิวาส, then, a Pali-derived phrase? And is it actually a phrase or a compound noun meaning "together in a previous life"?

It is derived from a Pali compound word meaning "living together in a previous life." A more in-depth explanation can be found here.

• บุพเพ boopL phaehM [prefix] before; previous; former; initial
  
• สันนิวาส sanR niH waatF living or staying together