Thai Man Seen Beating Young Thai Woman,

[ScubaBuddha]

I have to get this off my chest or I feel like I am going to explode. Driving my car today along a somewhat secluded side road, I see a youngish Thai man slapping, kicking hard, pushing and screaming at a crying young Thai woman sitting on a motorbike who is doing nothing to defend herself as a steady stream of motorbikes drive past with apparently no one taking notice but me. Back in the states, where I was a cop, I would have this guy on the ground in cuffs quickly, but I know better than to try something foolish like that here, as he is more likely to have a weapon, and every Thai in earshot would join him in fighting me. So I turn the car around park where I can see them and call 191. The man who answers quickly tells me he speaks no English and to call 1155. I could probably get the point across in Thai, but instead I try 1155 several times but it seems disconnected or busy. So I reluctantly call the recent but speaking terms ex-gf who wants back and ask her to call 191 to relay the information. She refuses and gives me the same line of BS she gave me last year when we saw a drunk driver (presumably) run into and knock down a pedestrian, a young girl, with his trucks big side view mirror. She said that the police will not come, that I am not back home, I am in Thailand and I cannot interfere with other peoples business, that the police can accuse us of making a fake police report if they can't find them, that the people involved can cause trouble for us, that the girl may want to stay with the man anyway etc. etc. All non-sense of course. Even if true those are risks I am easily willing to take when it comes to abuse of a woman or child. But what is bothering me so deeply is how vehement she was about this non-interference cultural thing, so much so that it has really shaken me in terms of what kind of society can allow their women to be beaten in the streets without so much as an anonymous phone call being made to the police? Can anyone help my understand this before I pack my bags and head home?

As for the couple, I think the guy spotted me on the phone and rode off on his bike to another location nearby, and last I saw the girl was riding towards him very slowly still crying. I gave up and left.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[Soutpeel]

A really sad story indeed...

In my experience, Thai's are genuinely sh*t scared of any BiB involvement in anything, suppose their reputation proceeds them, so I could understand your Ex-GF relutance to get involved, suppose this would override any moral obligation to do anything about incidents of this sort.

My thought...

[Kf6vci]

I feel strongly about civil courage. No man should ignore

violence against females - no matter what might be the roots.

Years ago, there was a public stabbing of a Black man in a German subway. dozens of men saw it,

no one lifted a finger to help the victim!

Once a man turns this violent against girl or a woman,

he crosses a line. Remember O.J. Simpson?

I believe from that line to murder is not all that far to go.

No society should consider domestic violence as "a private matter".

[Kitsch22]

Your reaction is an entirely creditable emotional response by a Westerner. However, your final paragraph strongly suggests that you have neither understanding of nor insight into the incident which you witnessed.

Your GF was right. The apparent victim made no appeal to you for help. None of your business; not your country; not your culture. Keep out of it or there is every risk that you might find yourself in really serious difficulty.

[Soutpeel]

Your reaction is an entirely creditable emotional response by a Westerner. However, your final paragraph strongly suggests that you have neither understanding of nor insight into the incident which you witnessed.

Your GF was right. The apparent victim made no appeal to you for help. None of your business; not your country; not your culture. Keep out of it or there is every risk that you might find yourself in really serious difficulty.

Oh you forgot to add, you just dont understand the culture......your post is absolute cr*p..

Another Farang who is "one" with his Thainess....put your head in the sand....

[Kitsch22]

Your reaction is an entirely creditable emotional response by a Westerner. However, your final paragraph strongly suggests that you have neither understanding of nor insight into the incident which you witnessed.

Your GF was right. The apparent victim made no appeal to you for help. None of your business; not your country; not your culture. Keep out of it or there is every risk that you might find yourself in really serious difficulty.

Oh you forgot to add, you just dont understand the culture......your post is absolute cr*p..

Another Farang who is "one" with his Thainess....put your head in the sand....

No; I didn't forget - I specifically said "not your culture", and the OP's GF had already remarked upon that.

I really do not mind if you or any other self-styled Sir Galahad thinks that he can barge in and, without being able to speak the language (your means of expression are evidently impoverished even in your own tongue) sort out a domestic argument in a strange land. By all means go ahead.

My head is not in the sand; my eyes are clear and well-focused in the environment in which I find myself. 

Edited November 30, 2009 by bonobo
Removed innapropriate paragraph.

[cognos]

Exhibit A. 1984..Los Angeles.. I was visiting from Vancouver..with a local fellow from LA and his wife..witnessed a black guy pummelling a white women..I went to step in, yelled at the guy and moved forward to assist the lady..the people I was with SCREAMED at me to stay out of it, said the black guy would probably have a gun and shoot me if I intervened. I reluctantly walked on...it really sucked.

Exhibit B. 2006.. at a restaurant in BKK with a Thai gf..a farang was screamimg at a thai waitress..I asked him what the problem was..the gf "lost face" because I tried to calm the guy down..said if I EVER interfered in someone else's problem again she would never speak to me again..later the waitress thanked me for assisting..it really sucked

[Mighty Mouse]

From your description of the incident it seems that the female victim was submitting to the 'beating.' Perhaps in her mind she did something so terrible that she deserved punishment.

What might have appeared to be a severe beating may have been no more than a slapping, just enough to let the girl know not to do it again and to show her who wears the pants in the household. This type of punishment may not be tolerated in Western society, but TIT.

The fact that she followed the male after he had departed indicates that she is prepared to stay with him.

Both obviously saw you watching the assault and the abuse stopped immediately. If the girl needed your help, or the help of the police, she would know how to get it.

If the assault escalated into bone shattering violence, then perhaps more preventative measures might need to be taken.

[cognos]

you may have needed to don your cape in that case..

[britmaveric]

domestics are tricky business - seen lads who went to save the victim, and then the victim starts in on them. Tough call - at the end of the day. Doubt BIB would be much assistance even if they understood what you were trying to report. Not to mention lad in question - most certainly would want revenge against you and bring his mates around.

[sinbin]

Good response 'Britmaveric'. Call the police. If they don't attend then your concience is cleared. Not your problem.

[jubby]

Don't know what I would do in the same situation. Lets assume you did the right thing and intervened. Guy backs off, Girl is grateful (unlikely) . He's just as likely to beat the sh*t out of her again when your out of sight. Unless your going to protect her 24x7 that is.

[Briggsy]

You are confusing the role of the police in Western countries with the role of the police in Thailand and other developing nations. In the West, domestic violence is taken very seriously by the police and will warrant immediate action. In Thailand, the police are not interested in domestic violence.

A more effective way of helping, if you feel you should get involved, is to go and video the incident on your camera. You are putting yourself in danger by doing this though.

[eek]

 

Wow...you for real? If she did something like that, then he should walk away from her. Or, get the law involved where needs be (i realise thats probably pointless here, but better than deciding its ok to beat on someone). Maybe deserved being beaten? Im thankful i dont know you dkstoney, if that is truly your outlook.

--

As for Thais not wanting to get involved, well, ive seen quite a lot of public awareness adverts showing scenarios showing both sides of a coin. One side where people ignore what is going on, and another, where they get involved. It appeals to people to get involved and take moral responsibility for helping others they see in distress. So, thankfully at least some effort is being made to change the "none of my business" frame of mind.

Edited November 30, 2009 by bonobo
Removed quoted text from a post which has been deleted as inappropriate

[Bagwan]

A superb lady that I know well, but not I hasten to add in the Biblical sense, was slapped around by her husband a few years ago. I forget what the altercation was about but it was something trivial. As I advise all the Thai ladies that I know, if your husband offers you violence run for the hills and never look back. I preach that if he does it once, he'll do it again, and that nobody should live in fear. We gave her temporary shelter until she sorted herself out but she elected to return to the marital home as they have a young daughter.

One year later he discovered that she had some gold and other jewellery that he had known nothing about. A customer at the restaurant where she works, a dedicated drinker and ne'er do well, had pursued her for some time and tried to cajole her into horizontal pursuits by giving her unsolicited presents. Unfortunately, and if I say typically for a Thai lady I will be lambasted, she accepted the presents but remained indifferent to his blandishments. Her husband did not believe her and broke her jaw and nose. She fled to her father's house in Udon Thani. He made several trips to try to woo her back and at last she relented. I assured her that if I had been her father he would have returned to Pattaya in a wheelchair.

Later that year she was a guest at my birthday party and, as if to display to all who attended that her marriage was intact and had survived the event, instead of coming along with mutual friends as usual, she arrived in the company of her husband. I refused him entry to my property and told him exactly why, adding that it was an occasion when I wanted to entertain and celebrate with my friends and that he certainly didn't enter into that category. He left, suitably chastened, but she only remained for half an hour or so before making her excuses and leaving. Discretion being the better part of valour I assumed.

Since that time I am pleased to say that her version of events is that they now live on Cloud 9. They have produced another child, bought a new house in one of the 'right' parts of town, and although I don't think that alcohol played a significant part in the previous violence, he has given up the booze entirely. Although not being accepted in polite society must have been a setback and loss of face, I give full credit to this wonderful lady for bringing about this sea change. If this is not the case then kudos may be due to her father who might well have laid out the painful consequences of any further untoward and totally unacceptable behaviour.

[cognos]

In the West, domestic violence is taken very seriously by the police and will warrant immediate action.

true.... but "In the West".. domestics are their least favorite type of call to attend to.. they hate them..as if any are pleasant..perhaps Thai police hate them so much they ignore them

[nam-thip]

A number of years ago (in black and white) i watched a program on UK TV called Whickers world which was about Thai culture in regard to male/female relationships and Thai man definitely is top dog when it comes to who wears the trousers.

One of a number of so-called ‘house rules’ they covered was the fact that it is accepted that a Thai man can slap his wife about without the law interfering and bringing him to justice.

I suggest not much has changed in Thailand since i watched that documentary.

What you saw was a sad fact of everyday life for many Thai females.

To see a Thai guy beating a Thai female is not uncommon and like many other expats that have lived here for some time i’ve seen Thai guys slap females around then walk away arm in arm all lovey, dovey.

Many years ago back in the UK I once got a grip of a guy beating on his lady and whilst I had him pinned to the wall his lady removed her stiletto heel shoe and whacked me over the head with it causing me to seek medical attention and stitches to a nasty wound.

Yes it’s very wrong what you witnessed but until Thai law, the police or Thai’s in general do something to put an end to it which I doubt they will in my life-time then we Aliens will have to accept it as a Thai way of life and that it’s none of our business.

If we can’t live with and accept Thai culture (when in Rome) then we must pack our bags and leave.

Like i said..............."It’s a sad fact of everyday life in Thailand".

[lioness]

Once a cop always a cop. However you are not in your own country, there are a lot of things here in Thailand that are different, if you are expecting the same values as at home then perhaps yoy will be packing your bags and leaving, as I believe you will never understand it, you are too conditioned to your previous life.

Yes, it's a sad state of affairs by most farang standards, but this is Thailand. If you make the decision to leave this lovely country over one incident then so be it.

[jackspratt]

 

Hopefully the Scubabuddhas of the world far outnumber the  stoneys. 

Edited November 30, 2009 by bonobo
Removed quoted text from a post which has been deleted as inappropriate

[cognos]

 

Hopefully the Scubabuddhas of the world far outnumber the flatulent stoneys.

I think they do on TV, like 20 to 1

Edited November 30, 2009 by bonobo
Same quoted text removed

[FarangBuddha]

Mind your own business and move along...there are 10M+ Thais living in Bangkok and if the situation warrants, they will call the police. No ting-tong farang involvement is necessary. (As you pointed out, at the end, she drove off towards (back) to her "attacker [lover?]" so whatever was happening was a personal matter.

[Dakhar]

 

or worse yet, sold off his comic book collection

Edited November 30, 2009 by bonobo
Same quoted text removed

[cognos]

"Mind your own business and move along."

You may be right in this case..as a Canadian..we used to hear with some degree of "alarm" that this was the case most of the time in the large cities of the USA, even when someone's life was in danger.. but now in Vancouver it is almost the same now..people just mind their own business and move on..and neighbours don't help neighbours like in the past, or even know their names in many cases.. A SAD WORLD OR AN IMPROVEMENT?

[Will27]

 

Disgraceful reply.

Edited November 30, 2009 by bonobo
Same quoted text removed.

[gvallee2]

Exhibit A. 1984..Los Angeles.. I was visiting from Vancouver..with a local fellow from LA and his wife..witnessed a black guy pummelling a white women..I went to step in, yelled at the guy and moved forward to assist the lady..the people I was with SCREAMED at me to stay out of it, said the black guy would probably have a gun and shoot me if I intervened. I reluctantly walked on...it really sucked.

Exhibit B. 2006.. at a restaurant in BKK with a Thai gf..a farang was screamimg at a thai waitress..I asked him what the problem was..the gf "lost face" because I tried to calm the guy down..said if I EVER interfered in someone else's problem again she would never speak to me again..later the waitress thanked me for assisting..it really sucked

I hope you dumped her because by staying silent YOU would lose face, as sitting there in a restaurant being annoyed by some random douche is definably not gaining face.

[camerata]

that the police can accuse us of making a fake police report if they can't find them, that the people involved can cause trouble for us, that the girl may want to stay with the man anyway etc. etc. All non-sense of course.

Unfortunately, it isn't nonsense at all. This is how it is in Thailand. The most important point is the last one: that many Thai women put up with this kind of thing in a relationship as if it were normal, and TV soap operas reinforce this attitude. There are many stories of farang interfering to protect Thai women being beaten and being attacked by the victim herself. Forget the police. The most likely scenario if you try to stop the guy is that he will take the woman home and beat the living crap out of her. And she will stay with him.

I think the only thing you can do in these situations is loudly ask the woman if she needs help. If she doesn't answer, walk off and leave them to it, although the guy would probably stop at this point anyway. The only solution to this kind of thing is long-term education of both men and women, but it will take generations to change because many Thai men have such fragile egos.

I remember when I was a teenager in Farangland and my girlfriend's married elder sister turned up at home one day with a black eye. Her dad went straight round to her house and told the husband that if he ever laid a hand on her again he'd break every bone in his body. I wish more Thai fathers would take some action - not necessarily violent - against violent sons-in-law (if they know about the problem) because it might work coming from within the family.

[mauiguy90]

When I first came to Bangkok, I witnessed a similar event, except the thai boyfriend was accompanied by 2 other guys. I called the police to report it. When I finally spoke to a policeman who spoke English, he asked me what the problem was (with BF hitting woman) and just laughed. Sadly, I think abuse between a man and his girlfriend is seen as their own business here.

[Meridian007]

So I turn the car around park where I can see them and call 191. The man who answers quickly tells me he speaks no English and to call 1155. I could probably get the point across in Thai, but instead I try 1155 several times but it seems disconnected or busy.

It seems to me that almost every thread that I read about calling the tourist police has this as the outcome. It is disconnected or busy. Why is that? The tourist police are supposed to be the life line for tourists in Thailand but if you can't get through, it's not going to help.

I know that some members here are tourist police, are your offices not afforded the same emergency phone systems that the regular police have? Are the emergency lines only active during certain times? I'm not trying to be snarky with this, I'm genuinely concerned.

As well, what do the tourist police usually do in the case of a domestic argument? Is it the same non-interference response of the regular police, or different?

[jc14all]

When everything we know to do seems right and our gut instincts is to respond immediately to a incident gone wrong, it really sends us into emotional turmoil (it sucks) to resist or reject all the green lights and emotional signals to take action. I can understand your thought to pack up and go home because when we see thing like this and do nothing we have the tendency to become desensitized.

However, here in Thailand that is all a part of the culture shock that we all must learn to live with. I believe your gf advise was wise because she knows the culture and can has better insight in the outcomes for safety sake on your part. I know it is a hard pill to swallow and I feel your confusion over this whole matter. You will never forget what you saw but what you saw and what you learned can be chalked up as a cultural experience to be put aside in your mind, that someday may or may not make sense.

I don't believe that our cultural experiences will limit us or desensitize us to what we know is right or wrong but they will help us live safe and wise in a country that is not our own. Hang in there my fellow farang.

[dttk0009]

If you are prepared to deal with the potential consequences of involving yourself with those kind of people, then by all means, get involved. I would strongly recommend against it.