Met this dazzling Thai girl who managed to get one of those nasty ten year bans on applying for UK visa. She says that the agency her Brit boyfriend used came up with some fake land and bank doc's and she had no idea, even though they made her sign a stack of copies without looking at them. When quizzed by the embassy she denied all knowledge of said docs but her signature was the downer even though she admitted to going to the agency. She then had the agency going after her for being stupid on the phone with the embassy, the agency of course would be able to say they knew nothing about it as they only went on the docs she gave them. Her sponsor has given up and has been threatened with prosecution in the UK!

I guess there is no chance of appealing the decision based on her own admitted stupidity and ignorance. If, say, after living with her for six months in Bkk and meeting all the usual criteria myself, would there be any chance of getting her either a visitor visa to EEC countries or even a visa based on marriage (I am British but own a property in Portugal which is usually rented out but have tax ID etc though not residence there but could get it if necessary)?

I assume that the embassy's databases share information in some manner so that even marriage and a name change and new passport would not help,

You want to what???

sorry, but seems no way.

I believe the 10 year ban would be next to impossible to get lifted. Whether it would have an impact on any schengen visa I don't know, depends I suppose if it asks whether the applicant has ever been refused a visa to any other country. I don't know that the UK discloses their blacklist with other countries.

As to the story given, I would advise to tread this path with care.

I will ask the fairy who lives in our car park tomorrow.

the problem will be, schengen embassy will ask, why a british citizen does not apply for a visa for GB for her.

and even if she gets one for schengen, she would need another one for GB.

before applying for schengen, she needs a new(clean) passport of course.

I would not do it any way.Its not far from 10 years to "for ever"

Edited December 4, 200916 yr by goldfinger

np, if you marry her and establish residence in another EC country, she can then apply for a family reunion visa at that countrys embassy.

you should pick the country with the least restrictive policy on family reunion but also consider that you may need to be able to speak the language and that you will need to find an appartment and maybe work there, so there is no clear best country, but the whole thing is quite legal.

buyers have long been able to pick the supplier with the most attractive offer. thanks to the EC subjects are now able to pick the state with the most attractive laws, you only need the willingness to move to exploit this advantage. gl!

np, if you marry her and establish residence in another EC country, she can then apply for a family reunion visa at that countrys embassy.

you should pick the country with the least restrictive policy on family reunion but also consider that you may need to be able to speak the language and that you will need to find an appartment and maybe work there, so there is no clear best country, but the whole thing is quite legal.

buyers have long been able to pick the supplier with the most attractive offer. thanks to the EC subjects are now able to pick the state with the most attractive laws, you only need the willingness to move to exploit this advantage. gl!

theoretical....but in practise?????

most schengen countries require a certain knowledgement of their language, proofed by a certified institute(school..etc.)before they agree to family reunion visa.

Come on, the embassy staff is not so stupid at all....

Better the OP goes on holiday to LOS 5 times a year, cheaper and much stressless.

most schengen countries require a certain knowledgement of their language, proofed by a certified institute(school..etc.)before they agree to family reunion visa.

some do, so does mine, but only for spouses of nationals of my country, spouses of EC aliens do not need to show "knowledgement". It is called reverse discrimination and very common in the EC.

Did you by any chance meet this dazzling girl in a bar or a gogo?

I don't know that the UK discloses their blacklist with other countries.

Yes, they do.

The OP says she got 'one of those nasty ten year bans' like it was a bad cold or a bit of the recurrent lumbago. Like 10 year bans are handed out for minor discrepancies in third-party provided paperwork. If this alleged Brit sponsor had to resort to skulduggery (always wanted to use that word!), that would also suggest that her standalone bona fides probably lacked credibility in the first place. I reckon the severity of the ban probably means something a lot worse... think swine flu or cancer.

Sounds like she may have dazzled a few too many before and as the venerable Boo suggests, handle this one with great circumspection.

NL, I appreciate that you may been there a "long time already".

However, in my experience, yes, they do hand out "bans" for perceived deception where none originally existed. Professionally speaking, I 've had several such accusations overturned.This romantic notion of yours that the Brits are the epitome of fair play is absolute nonsense: they'll deny anyone a visa given half the chance. Indeed, those who are British but live abroad will have to be careful in the future: have an out-of-date passport, and you won't be acceptable to the carrying company; i.e. you won't be let back in to your indigenous country.

Caveat emptor....

the problem will be, schengen embassy will ask, why a british citizen does not apply for a visa for GB for her.

and even if she gets one for schengen, she would need another one for GB.

before applying for schengen, she needs a new(clean) passport of course.

I would not do it any way.Its not far from 10 years to "for ever"

I am a brit and have taken girls to Holland Belgium and Ireland as well as the UK.. In actual fact Holland and Ireland were a doddle and super easy.

I did have addresses in each country tho.

NL, I appreciate that you may been there a "long time already".

However, in my experience, yes, they do hand out "bans" for perceived deception where none originally existed. Professionally speaking, I 've had several such accusations overturned.This romantic notion of yours that the Brits are the epitome of fair play is absolute nonsense: they'll deny anyone a visa given half the chance. Indeed, those who are British but live abroad will have to be careful in the future: have an out-of-date passport, and you won't be acceptable to the carrying company; i.e. you won't be let back in to your indigenous country.

Caveat emptor....

So this only applies if you 'buy' a bride/girlfriend?

NL, I appreciate that you may been there a "long time already".

However, in my experience, yes, they do hand out "bans" for perceived deception where none originally existed. Professionally speaking, I 've had several such accusations overturned.This romantic notion of yours that the Brits are the epitome of fair play is absolute nonsense: they'll deny anyone a visa given half the chance. Indeed, those who are British but live abroad will have to be careful in the future: have an out-of-date passport, and you won't be acceptable to the carrying company; i.e. you won't be let back in to your indigenous country.

Caveat emptor....

Good points scouser, I didn't know about the impending ood passport ruling, but in this case the OP stated that the application did contain fraudelent documents therefore the embassy was perfectly correct in their refusal and sugsequent ban. What I am a little sceptical about is that the agency didn't brief the girl on what was included in "her" application. This indicated either an almost terminal level of stupidity on the party of one of the parties or that the agency was an even bigger bunch of crooks than usual and were guilty of criminal negligence and taking money under false pretences.

One question, and you'd be the best one to answer. If she was to present her case to the embassy stating how she was duped by the agency in the first application is there any chance they'd rescind the ban? If yes, how does she start proceedings?

PS I am assuming that she is a genuine case and not some gogo bar gold digger, dangerous assumption I know but without evidence to the contrary we must start with that premise.

Quite frankly everydoghasitsday, I wouldn't get involved.

You never actually advised us as to which agents you used ??

And was it a tourist visa application or a settlement application.

I havnt posted for 2 years and nothing has changed, get a life people

I havnt posted for 2 years and nothing has changed, get a life people

Well, a year an half to me more exact, but then an average of roughly 5 posts per day/every day for the previous 5 years before that. Well, its obvious you now have a life and have moved on

in my experience, yes, they do hand out "bans" for perceived deception where none originally existed.

With respect, Scouse, this is not a case of 'perceived deception,' the OP has admitted that the deception did take place.

in my experience, yes, they do hand out "bans" for perceived deception where none originally existed.

With respect, Scouse, this is not a case of 'perceived deception,' the OP has admitted that the deception did take place.

Thai Girl With Ten Year Ban From Uk Vv Debacle, Any Options:

EASY OPTION: in Pattaya you find about 50.000 girls "go fishing falang". There are 49.999 left.

This is the best option, because no problem ( with UK Visa )

There must be something in the water here. A week ago, a guy was praising the love of his life, even though she tried to stay in the UK using a fake identity, and he wanted to circumvent the system to allow her to stay. He admitted that he was so upset, he considered physically assaulting her. Nice guy, he. Regardless, back to you. Is the dating pool so shallow that you're forced to be in a relationship with a woman who can't go back to the UK. Wait a minute! That might be the best woman to date. "Gee, babe, I'd love to take you home to meet the folks and settle down in my million quid manse...but you can't go there. Too bad."

try to be nice please folks, the guy is asking for advice.

I believe the 10 year ban would be next to impossible to get lifted. Whether it would have an impact on any schengen visa I don't know, depends I suppose if it asks whether the applicant has ever been refused a visa to any other country. I don't know that the UK discloses their blacklist with other countries.

As to the story given, I would advise to tread this path with care.

All embassies at least here in Bangkok share their black list on a monthly basis. It will be very difficult to get the lady a visa. As for Portugal embassy, it is one of the embassies where is more difficult to get a visa and after they check the lists it will be even worse for her.

If you applied as a tourist and i believe that is the case here ?

Then if she applied as your spouse this would be a fresh application under a different criteria just a thought ?

NL, I appreciate that you may been there a "long time already".

However, in my experience, yes, they do hand out "bans" for perceived deception where none originally existed. Professionally speaking, I 've had several such accusations overturned.This romantic notion of yours that the Brits are the epitome of fair play is absolute nonsense: they'll deny anyone a visa given half the chance. Indeed, those who are British but live abroad will have to be careful in the future: have an out-of-date passport, and you won't be acceptable to the carrying company; i.e. you won't be let back in to your indigenous country.

Caveat emptor....

Just curious on a couple of points:-

1) Re overturning a ban, if there is no right of appeal against the refusal, i.e. a straightforward visit visa application, presumably the only way to do it is sheer force of argument backed by the threat of JR? I've always thought that a 10-year ban without any right of appeal is a pretty draconian measure.

2) I'm not sure how lack of a valid passport will disable a Brit seeking to travel to the UK any more than it does at the moment, as the Carriers Liability Act theoretically applies to anyone without a valid document. So are you saying there will be no discretion to authorise travel in such cases? It was an almost daily occurrence during my time at a South Coast port to get a call from the ferry company in France asking if it was ok to board the Brit who had lost his passport or succeeded in getting over there with only a driving licence, etc etc. I can't imagine any scenario now or in the future where a British citizen who actually arrives back in Blighty is not "let back in."

I think the answer to some of the OP's original questions is that if he chooses to marry the lady and she submits a fiancee or spouse visa application the ban will not apply, but that doesn't mean that she will readily be granted the visa. Similarly, were she to apply for an EEA Family Permit (or its equivalent) to another European Country because the OP was "exercising his treaty rights" there, one would expect the embassy of that country to investigate more closely than normal whether it was a "marriage of convenience".

Hi, thanks for the replies. I did mention dazzling - as in worth some effort! From the last post it is implied that the girl if my wife would retain her rights under the EEC treaty and as Brit living in Portugal the UK ban would not apply although the Portugese embassy would probably spend a lot of time and effort trying to disprove the relationship, as in marriage of convenience. BTW I thought the ten year ban was applicable to girls in a relationship with a Brit living in Britain regardless of which visa they subsequently applied for, so don't think there is any joy down that route. Anyway, as I can stay Thailand no hurry to rush into things and I am thinking a couple of years down the line if things work out between us.

As to the agency, what seems to have happened is that the sponsor and girl were separated, the sponsor told it would be impossible to get a visitors visa unless extra paperwork was supplied and taken for 30,000 baht on his credit card without the girl knowing how much he had been done for. She was given a list of things to say if the embassy phoned up - however the embassy already seemed to know that she had used the agency and was told that any lies would result in the ten year ban, so she only told the truth. I suspect that later the agency told the embassy the girl had supplied the paperwork, backed up by her foolishly signing copies everything in sight wihtout checking what she was signing and the embassy decided to ban the girl rather than go after the agency. The agency blamed her for admitting to using the agency and talking stupid, even threatened her if she made any further trouble (Thai owned agency BTW).

1) Re overturning a ban, if there is no right of appeal against the refusal, i.e. a straightforward visit visa application, presumably the only way to do it is sheer force of argument backed by the threat of JR? I've always thought that a 10-year ban without any right of appeal is a pretty draconian measure.

There's no right of appeal unless derived from other circumstances, e.g. as a family visitor. I have recently successfully made representations to the UKBA in Bangkok in the matter of a visitor who'd been hit with a ten-year "ban", and the threat has now been struck from the record. However, in that instance it really was a simple and innocent mistake and it was draconian to subject the person to 320(7A) and (7B). In this case, as 7 x 7 points out, it would seem that the individual acknowledges the deception. In which case, it will be a monumental task to have overturned a reference to future applications being refused under 320(7B).

2) I'm not sure how lack of a valid passport will disable a Brit seeking to travel to the UK any more than it does at the moment, as the Carriers Liability Act theoretically applies to anyone without a valid document. So are you saying there will be no discretion to authorise travel in such cases? It was an almost daily occurrence during my time at a South Coast port to get a call from the ferry company in France asking if it was ok to board the Brit who had lost his passport or succeeded in getting over there with only a driving licence, etc etc. I can't imagine any scenario now or in the future where a British citizen who actually arrives back in Blighty is not "let back in."

It's in the "simplification" bill that the only way a Brit can demonstrate his claim to citizenship is by production of a valid British passport. The inference is that if your passport expires whilst abroad, then you run the risk of the carrier refusing to carry you back to the UK upon pain of being hit with a £2000 charge.

The agency will have had no contact with the Embassy unless they are registered with the OISC as far as im aware.

Edited December 5, 200916 yr by ThaiVisaExpress