Bringing My Ailing Parents To Thailand.

[jaideeguy]

I'm glad this thread has gotten so much attention and also interesting to hear other's stories. All are same-same but different.

Dealing with my 90yr old father while I'm in my early 60's has been a challenge to put it mildly. He doesn't have alzheimers, but is having more and more moments of dementia and if that is a taste of alz, then I hope that you know what you are leting yourself in for. My Thai wife just calls his episodes 'being a naughty old man', but I'm the one that bares the brunt of his forgetfulness, frustrations and anger.

And know this.... caregiving is the most unappreciated job in the world, sometimes....sometimes not, depending on his mood at the time, but never expect thanks.

Pop has been mostly a good patient and luckily his needs are quite simple and he spends most of his waking time watching CNN and playing solitaire and crossword puzzles. When he was walking, he felt a lot better, but this last fall may be his last and he is realizing it and gets frustrated at the thought of spending the rest of his life in bed......I would too!!

Tart, I know that I promised some links and connections that have helped me get thru this last 3.5 yrs, but it's been a long day and it's late and I promise to gather them up tomorrow and share with you by PM or on this forum. I will send you my phone number by pm if you need any info.....I have learned a lot over these last 3.5 yrs and mostly the hard way.

I have made a few attempts to start a thread like this and get some kind of connection with other expats care giving their parents here in LOS and they never got off. hopefully this one will get enough attention that the mods will pin it as a permenant reference and networking tool for us in the same boat.

JDG

[jaideeguy]

Tart.....

If you go through with this 'parent project', you will be amazed at all the details that go into another person's life....things that you normally take for granted, starting with toilet needs, entertainment, diet, etc etc., it's amazing how many details that you find yourself dealing with.

I had spent 10+ yrs in asia as a wild and crazy bachelor, then got married and my leash was shortened by a ready made family and then when I took on Pop, I found my leash shortened to 1 mtr and luckily I had my 10 yrs of freedom. I find myself missing those fun years and sometimes feel like I'm getting cheated out of my last chance to have the unrestricted fun that I once had.

Now that we have reliable help, I may takd more 'sanity breaks' in the future.

a couple of helpful links, more later.

handicapped [or universal] housing tips.....http://architecture.about.com/cs/buildyourhouse/a/universaldesign.htm

I based my design of the bungalow I built for Pop on the 'universal design' concept and really enjoyed that part of the project.....simple things that any able bodied person can find useful, like sliding doors 36" wide for wheelchair access, lowered lite switches, raised plug sockets for easy reach from wheelchair.....etc

support groups.....http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Caregivers/support-group

learn from other's experiences and get comfort knowing that you arn't the only one in the world going through this.

lots of topics relating to caregiving and alzheimers etc.

[maccaroni man]

for us it was my father, my mother died, i knew he would not last if he was to live alone. my wife simply assumed he would come live with us. we were in bali at the time and labor was much less costly than in thailand i.e we had a visiting nurse, massage girl, and maid for the price we pay one girl here in thailand. he was diabetic, an amputee (leg) and had loss of hearing in one ear. for the 1st yr he was great, the weather, and food reminded him of his native tropical country and he was easy to care for then he began falling and his blood levels were more difficult to control. this is when i learned that diabetes also effects the mind; he began loosing interest in reading, personal hygene or holding meaningful conversations. We returned to Thailand and hired a girl to be his companion during the day along with the maid who helped in his care. things went well for some time, eventually he was no longer able to walk, he was getting sores with gang green infections and required much lifting, finally the real beginging of the end was when he lost control of his spinktor and needed to wear dipars, of course that is also when the house began to smell of a care center, his communication skills had gone to almost nothing with a few moments of coherant thoughts and honestly, i found myself looking forward to his passing which he did in his bed over night. with all the negatives envolved, would i do it again? yes, in a new york minute. As a boy my father was my hero, he did the very best he could to make my life better and he was a good friend as well, i am still over joyed that he was able to be with my oldest son who still speaks of him and that in his final yrs i was able to be with him and that he knew in last days that his son loved him as i know he loved me. so as others have posted it is a challenge and it is not all fun and companionship as a matter of fact it is sometime lonley because they simply are not aware of what they are saying or doing and it can become a finacial burden as well.

[inf]

As stated in another thread, I have a mother who lives alone in Europe and is getting old. No Alzheimer's, but a lot of falling and unable to get back up again.

As the only son, I should be moving back to help her, but I have a job here - from which I get only about a week off per year - and a wife. Because of my age and my long stay in Asia, it would be hard for me to find a job back home allowing me to stay with her.

Bringing her to Asia would be an option, but a difficult one, because my mom would find it very hard to adapt to the completely different lifestyle. I don't mean necessarily the food, but the lack of contact with same-language friends, the being locked up in a tall apartment building because outside the weather is too hot and the traffic is too nasty for old people.

So it's a dilemma I'll have to find a solution for within the next few months.

[slapout]

All of those who have been directly involved in taking care of someone, as well as others, have made some good comments. One point that should be made, what is the initial reaction from the person needing care? My FIL had a terminal illness (still mobile and somewhat active) and we talked him in coming to CM to stay with us. After 2 weeks he wanted to go home as he did not know anyone to talk to (age, nor background wise). My experience has been that the males seem to have a harder time adjusting to a move than the female in this situation. Maybe others have not encountered this but my grandfather in real world was the same. Both wanted to go home and be close to the village people they knew, which they did. Its just another unknown that can come into play after all of your planning etc. Murphy's law again.

[Ijustwannateach]

A very good post from jaideeguy with sound advice from someone who understands the problems and is speaking from experience

Justwanttoteach: Your post suggests that you don't undestand what Alzeimers is. If you had read the op more closely he indicated his father no longer recognises him so your comment about dealing with second-language speakers - which I assume you mean Thais who do not speak English - seems a bit odd.

There have been some helpful posts on this thread. Jaideeguy has offered to answer pms and I also make that offer.

Good luck to him. His heart is clearly in the right place with the concern and care he is showing his parents

Not recognising the son doesn't mean that he still can't speak or have conversations. He'll probably just make up something about who he thinks the son is, based on what stage of life he thinks he's in (for example, it is not uncommon for regressing Alzheimers patients to feel that their children are their college roommates or something like that). What kind of assumptions is he going to make when he is suddenly surrounded by non-English-speaking Asians?

And in the case of the mother, she is apparently fully lucid. So I still think my points are worth considering....

[kurnell]

A mate of mine has bought his dad, who has alzheimers, over from the states to live with him in Thailand. I think he has been here for 6 months?? He loves it here. Goes out on the piss with a group of us, on cricket tours etc. My mate reckons he has shown definite signs of improvement. I think he has him drinking lots of coffee. It's supposed to help!

[tomahawk]

I will be in a very similar position soon myself, and so found this advice very helpful also. My mother is 80 and lives in Florida. I am only child and no family back in US to take care of her. She also has mental problems, which are not from old age since she always had them, but now getting worse. Her physical health is okay but soon I fear her mental state will render her unable to care for herself. I do not want to put her in nursing home, so my only other alternative is bring her here. She would have no problem with hot weather, and I live in area with good hospital and transportation. Main problem I think is dealing with her mental problems, but in my mind I have no choice. My wife says she has no problem taking care of my mother, since her own mother lived with us a long time and I took care of her medical care also. But she has never met my mother, so she does not know what she is agreeing to. The plus side is I do not think culture shock will be big problem as native Americans and Thai have similar culture in many ways.

One other thing for the OP, I do not know where you live but in Chiang mai there are several private care houses for alzheimer patients which I think are excellent care but expensive. If you wish to know more I will let you know.

[caf]

A very good post from jaideeguy with sound advice from someone who understands the problems and is speaking from experience

Justwanttoteach: Your post suggests that you don't undestand what Alzeimers is. If you had read the op more closely he indicated his father no longer recognises him so your comment about dealing with second-language speakers - which I assume you mean Thais who do not speak English - seems a bit odd.

There have been some helpful posts on this thread. Jaideeguy has offered to answer pms and I also make that offer.

Good luck to him. His heart is clearly in the right place with the concern and care he is showing his parents

Not recognising the son doesn't mean that he still can't speak or have conversations. He'll probably just make up something about who he thinks the son is, based on what stage of life he thinks he's in (for example, it is not uncommon for regressing Alzheimers patients to feel that their children are their college roommates or something like that). What kind of assumptions is he going to make when he is suddenly surrounded by non-English-speaking Asians?

And in the case of the mother, she is apparently fully lucid. So I still think my points are worth considering....

Your points are very much worth considering.

But all Alzeimmer sufferers are different and at different stages of the disease. Some have very lucid moments. We know little in this case. The dad is mobile but can he interact in conversations. What we are told is that the parents are away from their son "waiting to die"

Culture shock and language could be significant problems but I think the op has weighed this against being in more beneficial closer contact with his parents and he seems astute enough to control those issues. Being here may be better than their staying in the "old environment" that the op described.

As I say, we don't have all the facts ( quite properly, it is very personal ) but on balance a move here may work. I do however share your concerns. My aunt had Alzeimers and Thailand would have finished her but I know of others where it would have been a good decision.

[puuchai299]

To the op i wish you the best of luck whichever way you decide to go with this situation,i spent 10 years caring for an elderly couple who where brother and sister,never married and lived together all there lives,it was hard work,sometimes funny,as they played naughty games that happens when they can start to revert back to being like children, many times sad watching there health detiriate,the brother who was younger died within 3 weeks of getting pancreas cancer,which was very sad but his sister started to go downhill from then on as she'd lost her best friend,she lasted another 5 years after his death,finaly she fell and it became impossible to bring her home,that i found heartbreaking,so she had to go into a nursing home,she then starting to just sit and call nurse nurse nurse all day until she finaly passed away a year later,it's a terrible thing watching people deteriating but you can give it your best shot,and if i was in your situation and could fund it and your mum is comfortable with it i would do it for sure.After all the ups and downs i had being there carer i never regret it as there quality of life was better.Good luck to you..

[robanywhere]

kind of you to take responsibility for your parents...

my thought for your consideration is that you may not want to declare your father's alzheimers condition to immigration, especially for a non-immigrant resident visa. there may be regulations barring entry (for residency) to ppl with chronic illnesses (for example, aids). also, while the West may be benevolent in how it considers alzheimers, to the thai system it may classify it as a mental illness or dementia and therefore blacklisted from an O visa.

i always think about the Chinese visa application that asks the applicant whether he has one of a dozen or so different ailments (eg., TB, AIDS, syphilis, dementia, etc), and wonder why anyone would admit to them, knowing it would automatically exclude them from a visa...

my motto on anything official: generally the less they know, the fewer the questions... good luck!

Edited December 20, 2009 by robanywhere

[NancyL]

In retrospect, I wish I'd been able to bring my father to Chiang Mai. He had diabetes and diabetes-caused dementia which is different than Alzheimer's. His diabetes was controlled but it was discovered too late and there was damage to his nervous system. Within a year of my mother passing, he remarried and while his new wife was a wonderful lady, his marriage limited what we could do for him.

He never was interested in physical activity or social interactions with strangers. His retirement activities consisted of reading, watching the news and talking with family members. During his last few years at home with his new wife his physical condition declined mainly due to lack of activity. He did go to physical therapy, but wouldn't do the homework. He would if I sat with him and did the exercises when I visited, but my stepmom refused to do this. Here in Thailand, we could have paid some cute little Thai physical therapist to visit him daily and put him thru his paces. He continued to respond to good-looking women until the end of life!

Eventually, he became incontinent and my stepmom's life degenerated to being a maid and laundry lady. I tried to talk to her about Thailand, how people could be paid to do all that dirty work and she could simply enjoy talking with my father (his long-term memory, wit and attitude remained great). She couldn't be convinced. Finally, Dad had to go to a nursing home when my stepmom was no longer able to help him to the car to get him to his many doctor's appointments. (As with others here, I thing many of his problems were caused by overmedication.) Once in the nursing home, things went downhill in a hurry. It was the best place in the area, but he wasn't getting the one-on-one attention he needed to thrive. That would have been so easy to get for him here.

[Huey]

I hope it all works out, it sounds like you got it pretty well sorted. They are lucky to have a good son like you

[Tinkelbell]

I'm a firm believer..... What goes around comes around.

To those of you who have beautiful hearts..... by looking after their folks in their old age. When your time comes, your children will sure be taking good care of you with the same love and passionate that you had steadily shown to your own folks previously.

It's one of the best life lessons that your children will treasure and pass along to the next generation.

[nakachalet]

tinkelbell

To those of you who have beautiful hearts..... by looking after their folks in their old age. When your time comes, your children will sure be taking good care of you with the same love and passionate that you had steadily shown to your own folks previously.

perhaps, maybe you are wishing and hoping too much in this world.... lol

there are plenty of practical examples around to show you the contrary.

just last week, i visited an 78 yr old lady who bequested her vast rubber plantation holdings to all her three grownup children several years ago.... and at this time, she does not even have cable tv to enjoy.... very sad....

her children are still coming around a few times a month to visit and such....

yes, the old lady took very good care of her own parents as well as her husband's....

but her own children do not appear to follow their parents' love, devotion and sacrifice at all....

and there are many other such examples around both here in thailand as well as in the westernized world....

what i am trying to say is.... love, honor, respect and take excellent care of your parents etc.... for this is our human duty....

but do not expect your own or adopted children to care for you in like manner and style....

better yet, keep everything under your own name with a clearly written wills.... specifying whoever shows compassion and care during your old age.... will be entitled to whatever you wish to bestow.... according to each's willingness to contribute both in monetary terms as well as time and efforts spent on your and/or your loved ones' behalf....

if your own family members still do not look after you.... well, at least at that time, you could very well get someone else to care for you in exchange for pecuniary returns....

yes, i am older and wiser now... being close to 3 scores and 10.... lol

thanks heavens.... i am very blessed to be still very healthy....

going to park city, dear valley, anyone?... lol

Edited December 21, 2009 by nakachalet

[tartempion]

Well I talked to mother a few days ago.

She got very upset when I asked her to think it over, weighting positive versus negative.

"Do you realize the bad health we are in right now?, we are unable to travel"

I disagree with that, they certainly can travel on a plane.

"You want us to come over to the other side of the planet to die in a foreign country"

Well now they sit in a heated room in a Home waiting to die also, never to set their feet in the open again.

At least they could enjoy sitting outside, having a walk, eating whatever they like...

I'll call her again today.

[eljeque]

www.goldenyears.co.th

Email: [email protected]

55/3 Sutthisan Rd., Hauikwang, Bangkok, Thailand 10320

Tel: 66 2 693 0733 Fax: 66 2 275 5295

Golden Years Hospital was established in 1995 to serve the changing family lifestyle from extended families to nuclear families.

At Golden Years, we provide a safe caring environment throughout the day. With many of today's work requirements, modern families sometimes need help that Golden Years can provide.

This gives not only our seniors peace of mind, but also their busy family members who no longer need to worry about the safety of their loved ones.

[thunder30101]

Quit thinking about what YOU want and respect thieir wishes. Just maybe they are quite happy being in a warm room together they know and are comfortable with waiting for their time to end.

[SoCal]

Well I talked to mother a few days ago.

She got very upset when I asked her to think it over, weighting positive versus negative.

"Do you realize the bad health we are in right now?, we are unable to travel"

I disagree with that, they certainly can travel on a plane.

"You want us to come over to the other side of the planet to die in a foreign country"

Well now they sit in a heated room in a Home waiting to die also, never to set their feet in the open again.

At least they could enjoy sitting outside, having a walk, eating whatever they like...

I'll call her again today.

My Dad would pack his bags tomorrow. Unfortunately, my mother is a lot like yours, to the point of being irrational.

That said, you have to respect her desires.

I remind my mother a couple of times a year, of how good life could be over here, and tell her she is always invited, but I would never pressure her.

That said, I always joke with her that if she ever loses it mentally, I will bring her over here, and everyday she can complain to me about why there are so many GD chinese in Los Angeles.

[craigt3365]

Quit thinking about what YOU want and respect thieir wishes. Just maybe they are quite happy being in a warm room together they know and are comfortable with waiting for their time to end.

You are right on...but it is so hard to do sometimes. We think we know what is best for them, but many times, they know what is best for them. Very difficult situation.

[tartempion]

Quit thinking about what YOU want and respect thieir wishes. Just maybe they are quite happy being in a warm room together they know and are comfortable with waiting for their time to end.

You must be the brightest mind of your class

What I want?

A peaceful time to enjoy my retirement here in LOS.

I very well know that will NOT be the case if I bring them over here.

I have considered and evaluated how my life will be if/when this happens and it will not be paradise.

I wonder if you take 5 minutes to think this over.....shaking my head on so much stupid remarks.

"Maybe they are quite happy being in a warm room together and blablabla"

I have visited them in August and October: I see my father has no clue and my mother being utmost bitter. She had two suicide attempts doctors told me (that's why THEY got hospitalized, they had to bring my father along) before they were moved to their actual dying place.

Yep, happy to be in a warm room together, you must be joking, you wise man

Anyway, talked to her yesterday and did not mention my proposition.

I might try a few months from now, unless I hear bad news concerning my father.

[thunder30101]

No Im not joking, you came on here asking for some advice and when its not what YOU want to hear you insult me ? Kinda forgot to mention the suicide attempts in your previous posts did ya ? Kinda changes the scenario in what you were askiing advice about doesnt it ? Yeah bring them over to a totally foreign enviroment with no support with these serious mental issues happening, great idea. You need to grow up a little my friend.

[kikoman]

I think that your plan is sound, It is taking on a very trying tasks but the well being of your parents is repayment of all the demands on their time and efforts they gave in raising you. I admire you wishes to make their final days as comfortable as possible.

Medical in hospital care can be expensive if you use falang oriented hospitals, I get excellent care from The Thai Military Hospital I use.

You must realize that your parents are at the end of this life and make life as comfortable as possible for them here, the only change I would make in your plan, is to provide around the clock care for your father because of his condition.

Thai elderly usually pass on in the comfort of their home surrounded by their families, on pending death family members come from all over the country to see them while they are still alive. In my village are mostly elderly because the young, go to other parts of the country for employment as this is a rice farming village.

I do not mean to sound uncaring, your plan for bringing your parents here must include the reality of their passing and you must plan for that event.

I admire your concern for your parents and wish you good luck in your decision.

[a2396]

I am glad I am not in your shoes. I assume you have no other family in USA, who can look after them. I am a bit surprised that Thai immigration would have no problem granting a visa to your father, who is already "around the bend". Both he and your Mother will require financial resources above & beyond those of a normal retiree here. You will be paying 100% of their care, even though costs in LOS are a fraction of U.S., this could still get expensive. Although, maybe they get monthly pension money to offset this. Are they used to the heat of a Thailand summer? Do you have an air conditioned bedroom for them? I have been here 5 years and would find it uncomfortable to sleep without air conditioning.