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Thailand Tourism To Drop 34% This High Season


george

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...she felt the Thais were only after one thing - money. She said she felt like they were the predators and she was their prey. Contrast that with her take on Singapore - she liked it, and Tokyo - she loved it, loved the Japs, and felt they showed real hospitality to her, even though very few of them spoke any English.

Those countries have GDP per head as follows (US$):

Singapore $38,972

Japan $38,457

Thailand $4,116

That's not by any means the whole story, of course, but money (or perceptions of inequality) does play a part.

I'd advise your friend not to go anywhere where they're real experts at rip-offs, like Vietnam (GDP per head: $1,042)

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I have lived in Thailand for many years. I used to take all my holidays in the country. I enjoyed traveling around the country. In the past few years, this has changed. Terrible traffic, terrible drivers, a lot of bad news, over development and on and on. I recently went to Cambodia. It has it's problems that's for sure, but it was good value for money and had a very relaxing and lovely time--something that is rare in Thailand these days.

In particular, I noted that the country isn't noisey. I went out for a nice meal with a friend, there was a wedding going on next to our restaurant and we could still have a nice conversation. They had live music, but it was at a civil volume. Never see that anymore in Thailand.

Thailand will still attract tourists, but there is better value for money to be had elsewhere and just as interesting.

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hit the nail on the head? i dont think so! I lived for a year in Singapore and its a CITY which has nothing in common with THAILAND. Its ok for a short trip and some days on a SWIMMING POOL but most of the tourists visiting Thailand for BEACHES and FUN. 4+5 Star clientel are not the people Thailand need for its tourism industry really. They need the middle class tourists which spend money in THAISHOPS and THAIFACILITIES, not in Farang owned 5-Star restaurants and a Speedboat trip to phe phe island.

Its just a small percentage of people in 4+5star resorts and often they are the ones which are not leaving their Hotel and spending money what reaches the normal Thaiciticen.

Truth is that prices in Thailand are rising year after year, but the price-performance ratio is the same or worse. But for Thais it doesnt matter, if only half of the tourists come, the 50% have to pay double prices, thats dumb but Thaistyle and I've known it to happen.

btw. tourism numbers and arriving foreigners are not only counted at airports....there are a lot of Visarunners counted as tourists 4 times a year!

Does anybody know the actual numbers of foreigners living in the Kingdom?

I don't disagree with some of your points, but what I was demonstrating with my personal example is the slow bleed that has hit Thailand's tourism. Those short trips are lucrative, the same way many Canadians would head to the USA for quick weekend getaways when the economy was robust and the dollars had good FX. Those short trip people spend alot of money in their limited visit. Don't discount Singapore's resort areas, as they are quite competitive in terms of activities and services. Obviously, these are 2 different destinations. However, if Singapore is able to lure away tourists for just a few days, thats a few days revenue that Thailand loses. Obviously Thailand has assets that will always attract tourists and yes a core group will always come. It's the segment that is variable and price sensitive that makes the difference between a good year and a bad year.

Although it plays to the heart strings about "middle class" tourists spending in the general population, please keep in mind that the people of influence in Thailand's tourist trade are all linked to the 4-5* resorts. Those are massive investments that generate the big profits, provide the largest number of quality jobs and local taxes in the tourist areas and almost always provide better pay and working conditions than the small guest houses. If one wants to apply trickle down economics to the Thai tourist, apply Thai realities and not western concepts. The reality is that almost all of the profit stays with owner of the guest house and or eating establishment. It really does not get spread around. it's the large resorts that generate most of the tourism tax revenue. it's those taxes that pay for everything. It's the 10% service charges included in the hotel bills that help support a worker's family back home. The 4-5* segment was able to attract families and the middle class because there was a price advantage.

Who do you think provides all those tourists that go to the organized activities? It's the major resorts and hotels. And they do it at very lucrative pricing for the service providers. How many people do you think ask their guest house operator for tickets to Siam Safari or Phuket Phantasea? Most of those middle class tourists you refer to stay at the package tour specialty hotels like Holiday Inn, & Central. These are the hotels fighting hard for market share and that are indeed getting hit this year, because of international economic conditions. Today, most tourists, including the wealthy ones, are price sensitive. It's a myth that these people do not leave the hotels. True they may not leave as frequently as someone in a small hotel, but when they do leave they drop a bundle at Central or at an outside restaurant. Someone staying in a 2000 baht room is going to be spending 150 baht on a meal. The bigger hotels disgorge guests that drop 1000 baht on a meal. Do the math. Families are the most desirable guests because kids necessitate spending and the pricing of Thailand's family targeted resorts is now out of reach for many people this year. Only the large hotel changes made a concerted effort to work with tour operators to hang onto the niche. Although the results are not good, they did ok considering the state of the economy.

As I fly in and out of Phuket, I will be counted in the foreign arrivals even though, I will actually be spending my money outside of thailand. Think about it.

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I have lived in Thailand for many years. I used to take all my holidays in the country. I enjoyed traveling around the country. In the past few years, this has changed. Terrible traffic, terrible drivers, a lot of bad news, over development and on and on. I recently went to Cambodia. It has it's problems that's for sure, but it was good value for money and had a very relaxing and lovely time--something that is rare in Thailand these days.

In particular, I noted that the country isn't noisey. I went out for a nice meal with a friend, there was a wedding going on next to our restaurant and we could still have a nice conversation. They had live music, but it was at a civil volume. Never see that anymore in Thailand.

Thailand will still attract tourists, but there is better value for money to be had elsewhere and just as interesting.

I see more and more of these opinions and sadly enough they're true. Coming to Thailand for more than 30 years I have the same feelings.

The greed, noise, overwhelming construction sites, ever increasing prices but low quality and lack of respect for tourists will finally have it's impact.

If the government doesn't start to understand the feelings of the people who bring a lot of money to the country the business will go elsewhere.

The tour operators in the West but also Asian countries will listen to their clients and put Thailand aside as a first option to travel to.

Countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia will benefit, even destinations in The Philippines and Oceania will blossom.

LaoPo

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Lets have a closer look livingthailandos land at swampy scam inolving king power cost tourist 50k the main culprit behind the scam never reprimanded.

Have a sucsessfull buisness with a thai partner you end up shot ( nanai rd, murder of real estate canadian hit man bought in.

Shops as soon as they see your farang the doller starts flashing.

My favorite Scams 1 name jj naiman HMS Bulwark any bells ringing yet livingthailandos, the latest tuk tuk mafia blocking entrance's to to big hotels and resorts because there not gettin at the feeding bowl.

Murders how many so far this year ok thai on thai at the moment for now but do you want to be in a resort with your wife and kids and have to dodge bullits in a gangland shoot out in broad daylight.

I have never mentioned Honk Kong or malasia in my posts.

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Come to sunny Saigon.

The government has just devalued the currency by about 5%. Goods were cheap before that, now even better bargains.

Stable government. In Ho Chi Minh City almost everyone speaks understandable English.

Direct flights from Paris, Frankfurt, Melbourne.

Half a day to get to some of the most beautiful, unspoilt beaches in SE Asia.

Thailand is yesterday - tomorrow is for Vietnam.

The Trouble with Vietnam, is to many French people go there!

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If nothing else, just the loud noise factor is repelling.

I've been a long time resident here (one fifth of my days in Thailand) and have been bellyaching about loud noise the whole time. I'm a musician, so perhaps that partly explains why it particularly affects me. Often times, it's not just the loud volume, but also the sickly sugar syrup on rice hulls pop songs - sometimes 2 or three different songs playing concurrently in the same space.

It gotten to where it's often painful for me to go in to a shop. Any shop, large or small will likely have growling traffic noise mixed with screeching pop songs and/or too-loud talk radio or screaming adverts on the P.A.

Incidentally, when Thais purchase hi-fi sets with balance sliders (bass thru treble), they'll keep its settings from the store, which are usually in a smile pattern (lots of bass and treble, with minimum middle). If their speakers have little bass ability, then all that comes out of them will be 'high-end' treble. So that partly explains why most audio heard in Thailand is waaaaay up in the tinnitus eardrum-shattering spectrum.

Brings to mind the story of a young Thai girl who was deaf - until she had a corrective operation at around 13 years old. From weeks after she could hear, she would run away whenever anyone spoke nearby. Why? because it hurt her hearing. When asked, she said 'people talk so loud.' Because I have sensitive hearing, I can relate to what that girl experiences. Whatever the opposite of sensitive hearing is, that's what Thais (and most Asians) have. Fire drill bells could jangle, buildings could topple, trucks growl, bubblegum bands could scream, and nearby Thais wouldn't bat an eye. they would all be grinning 'mai pen rai' - and any people who wince at the pain in their ears would be chuckled at as weaklings.

TAT will never figure it out, let alone think of doing anything about it.

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Howdy......decided to look up that UN report again........here are the countries in the region they listed as "doing well" in terms of tourism (notice Thailand is missing):

Republic of Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar

Now, the question that should surface is why Thailand is doing so bad--particularly in comparison to Malaysia and Indonesia (no doubt Bali).

All of these countries are impacted by the same global economic downturn and financial crisis.

Something else is causing people to go elsewhere.

Here is the link to the report:

http://unwto.org/facts/eng/barometer.htm

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If nothing else, just the loud noise factor is repelling.

I've been a long time resident here (one fifth of my days in Thailand) and have been bellyaching about loud noise the whole time. I'm a musician, so perhaps that partly explains why it particularly affects me. Often times, it's not just the loud volume, but also the sickly sugar syrup on rice hulls pop songs - sometimes 2 or three different songs playing concurrently in the same space.

It gotten to where it's often painful for me to go in to a shop. Any shop, large or small will likely have growling traffic noise mixed with screeching pop songs and/or too-loud talk radio or screaming adverts on the P.A.

Incidentally, when Thais purchase hi-fi sets with balance sliders (bass thru treble), they'll keep its settings from the store, which are usually in a smile pattern (lots of bass and treble, with minimum middle). If their speakers have little bass ability, then all that comes out of them will be 'high-end' treble. So that partly explains why most audio heard in Thailand is waaaaay up in the tinnitus eardrum-shattering spectrum.

Brings to mind the story of a young Thai girl who was deaf - until she had a corrective operation at around 13 years old. From weeks after she could hear, she would run away whenever anyone spoke nearby. Why? because it hurt her hearing. When asked, she said 'people talk so loud.' Because I have sensitive hearing, I can relate to what that girl experiences. Whatever the opposite of sensitive hearing is, that's what Thais (and most Asians) have. Fire drill bells could jangle, buildings could topple, trucks growl, bubblegum bands could scream, and nearby Thais wouldn't bat an eye. they would all be grinning 'mai pen rai' - and any people who wince at the pain in their ears would be chuckled at as weaklings.

TAT will never figure it out, let alone think of doing anything about it.

I have to agree. If there is one thing that is immediately obvious to anyone visiting Thailand for the first time or visiting any shopping complex after 20 years is the amazing amount of din that is around in Thailand.

I was up country last week and visited the new Central in Khon Kaen. All very nice on the Friday, come Saturday and Sunday it was absolutely deafening throughout the complex. This goes for even the so called international retailers. The managers of these places are not idiots, but I would dearly love to know where it is written in marketing 101 where inflicting 90 db on your customers is supposed to lever one extra baht out of their pocket?

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If nothing else, just the loud noise factor is repelling.

I've been a long time resident here (one fifth of my days in Thailand) and have been bellyaching about loud noise the whole time. I'm a musician, so perhaps that partly explains why it particularly affects me. Often times, it's not just the loud volume, but also the sickly sugar syrup on rice hulls pop songs - sometimes 2 or three different songs playing concurrently in the same space.

It gotten to where it's often painful for me to go in to a shop. Any shop, large or small will likely have growling traffic noise mixed with screeching pop songs and/or too-loud talk radio or screaming adverts on the P.A.

Incidentally, when Thais purchase hi-fi sets with balance sliders (bass thru treble), they'll keep its settings from the store, which are usually in a smile pattern (lots of bass and treble, with minimum middle). If their speakers have little bass ability, then all that comes out of them will be 'high-end' treble. So that partly explains why most audio heard in Thailand is waaaaay up in the tinnitus eardrum-shattering spectrum.

Brings to mind the story of a young Thai girl who was deaf - until she had a corrective operation at around 13 years old. From weeks after she could hear, she would run away whenever anyone spoke nearby. Why? because it hurt her hearing. When asked, she said 'people talk so loud.' Because I have sensitive hearing, I can relate to what that girl experiences. Whatever the opposite of sensitive hearing is, that's what Thais (and most Asians) have. Fire drill bells could jangle, buildings could topple, trucks growl, bubblegum bands could scream, and nearby Thais wouldn't bat an eye. they would all be grinning 'mai pen rai' - and any people who wince at the pain in their ears would be chuckled at as weaklings.

TAT will never figure it out, let alone think of doing anything about it.

I have to agree. If there is one thing that is immediately obvious to anyone visiting Thailand for the first time or visiting any shopping complex after 20 years is the amazing amount of din that is around in Thailand.

I was up country last week and visited the new Central in Khon Kaen. All very nice on the Friday, come Saturday and Sunday it was absolutely deafening throughout the complex. This goes for even the so called international retailers. The managers of these places are not idiots, but I would dearly love to know where it is written in marketing 101 where inflicting 90 db on your customers is supposed to lever one extra baht out of their pocket?

I wholeheartedly agree, even I can "switch off", the "white Noise" pollution is just incredible, close to torture!

Here on Samui, mainly around Chaweng and Lamai "Muay Thai Boxing" Venues fancy speakers equipped pick up truck to advertise the next upcomin' fight... it's breathtaking, screetching loud, boringly repeatative and redundant!

"ladi-es an' gen'le me-n, tomollow ni-gh', tomollow ni-gh', d' supa fi-gh, d'su-pa fi-gh', tomollow ni-gh' tomollow ni-gh......"

The best spot to get completely "done" is the spot in front of the "green Mango", at least 3 different songs, from different venues, at top peak level, it's incredible, one has to shout at top output to talk to one another - sanook, sanook!

The question arises, is the fine tuned hearing ability of a musician after all a curse?

But then it looks like people around enjoy themselves, so this fact might not contribute much to the drop in tourism arrivals. :)

....and the locals seem to be absolutely immune towards any disturbance perceived as such by Farangs, cold food doesn't set them off, late trains, flights, 24 hrs. rush hour, traffic snarls, name it - sometimes I wish I had the same wiring and run on the same software!

But then I am quite happy with things as they are right now, working on the rest.

Edited by Samuian
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If nothing else, just the loud noise factor is repelling.

I've been a long time resident here (one fifth of my days in Thailand) and have been bellyaching about loud noise the whole time. I'm a musician, so perhaps that partly explains why it particularly affects me. Often times, it's not just the loud volume, but also the sickly sugar syrup on rice hulls pop songs - sometimes 2 or three different songs playing concurrently in the same space.

It gotten to where it's often painful for me to go in to a shop. Any shop, large or small will likely have growling traffic noise mixed with screeching pop songs and/or too-loud talk radio or screaming adverts on the P.A.

Incidentally, when Thais purchase hi-fi sets with balance sliders (bass thru treble), they'll keep its settings from the store, which are usually in a smile pattern (lots of bass and treble, with minimum middle). If their speakers have little bass ability, then all that comes out of them will be 'high-end' treble. So that partly explains why most audio heard in Thailand is waaaaay up in the tinnitus eardrum-shattering spectrum.

Brings to mind the story of a young Thai girl who was deaf - until she had a corrective operation at around 13 years old. From weeks after she could hear, she would run away whenever anyone spoke nearby. Why? because it hurt her hearing. When asked, she said 'people talk so loud.' Because I have sensitive hearing, I can relate to what that girl experiences. Whatever the opposite of sensitive hearing is, that's what Thais (and most Asians) have. Fire drill bells could jangle, buildings could topple, trucks growl, bubblegum bands could scream, and nearby Thais wouldn't bat an eye. they would all be grinning 'mai pen rai' - and any people who wince at the pain in their ears would be chuckled at as weaklings.

TAT will never figure it out, let alone think of doing anything about it.

Alas all too painfully true and it just seems to get worse as time goes by and the Thai response is to shriek even louder above it all. I fear there is no resolution it is too much part of just being Thai and foreigners who complain are dismissed as, "just the dogs barking". It seems to be born of a curious concept of personal freedom based on you are free to do anything you wish at any time of day or night, except complain when somebody else behaves, no matter how unreasonably.

The interminable drivel which is churned out from supermarket PAs is complemented by the "background" disco volume musak and a troup of sales girls armed with megaphones selling sausages and cooked meat. But ask any Thai customer, "Can you tell me anything that the woman on the PA has said in the last five minutes", and the reply would be, "What woman". They just don't hear it because they are not listening to that or anything else. A nation of interminable talkers and when you can speak Thai you realise the utter banality and money obsession of 80% of it but nobody listens to anybody, not even themselves so arguably it does not matter anyway.

Thank you for the technical explanation of the hi-fi sound which I had always thought was just shoving the base to max so that from 500 metres away you can still here boom, boom-boom, boom-boom.

I thought the maxim was, "Volume counts for nothing". But sadly in Thailand volume counts for everything, in fact for most of the time volume is all there is.

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Yes, the noise is one of the biggest factors. It is insideious it's absolutely everywhere and it is deafening. There have been studies done on the effects of noise pollution and it is quite harmful to health.

As I mentioned earlier, one of the first things I noticed in Cambodia--and I enjoyed--was the quiet. Sitting on a street with no noise. There were vehicles, but no screeching motorcycles. There was a TV, but no volume (no one watching). No music blaring. I could talk with my friend. That doesn't happen in Thailand, anywhere. Most of the time I can't even talk on my mobile phone if I am in public.

All those stress hormones that get released have an affect on the body and I walk around in a state of semi anger and agitation.

I used to work for a restaurant in a Western Country. One of the tricks when the restaurant was full and you wanted people to leave was to turn up the music--it didn't take much volume and people started trickling out.

Well, they are starting to trickle out of Thailand as well.

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Regarding shopping; it must be proven that, if there are a bunch of vendors lumped together, the ones which have the most noise going on, will probably have more customers than the others.

Though not terribly common (thank Bob), there are the yelling competitions to sell things, most likely energy drinks or motorbikes. Specifically, the big company (it's never a local outfit), finds the tallest, thinnest & prettiest girls between the ages of 19 and 21, and has about 4 or 5 of them on a stage in a line. They're usually dressed like swanky barbie dolls in red vests and black skirts up to their tiny bums. At any one time, one or two will be shouting in to a microphone. If there was a VU meter on the amp, the needle would be out past the red (into the black and blue). If you can stand anywhere near such a high pitched shout fest, you've got eardrums made of leather.

....and that's just one of many painful assaults on hearing that befalls anyone who visits Thailand. TAT, are you listening? Or perhaps your ears are ringing too.

It's particularly ironic when one sees ads for Thailand and/or Thai Airways. TA has its usual perfect girl pictures in their most recent ad campaign (good art work, I must admit), with the usual caption; "smooth as silk" - yet if you've ridden on Thai Air, you can't help but notice their pilot announcements are very loud and long-winded. As with every other aural assault in Thailand, there's no place to hide - you've just got to bear it. Eyes have lids, but ears don't have flaps. Maybe God was vacationing when it came time to fine tune the design of ears.

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Well Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia are roaring! Even my Thai wife agrees....

We haven't been to Thailand for 2 years and she doesnt care if she never sees Thailand again.....

Hmmm... I wonder if she just wants me away from the Thai bars!!!!! :)

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Well Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia are roaring! Even my Thai wife agrees....

We haven't been to Thailand for 2 years and she doesnt care if she never sees Thailand again.....

Hmmm... I wonder if she just wants me away from the Thai bars!!!!! :)

No............she wants to spend your money in designers shops in those fancy cities :D

LaoPo

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Farangs in Thailand almost always congregate in the noisiest places that exist and then complain about the noise. I'm afraid this says much more about farang than Thais.

:):D My guess is that you have never lived in rural Thailand where there are few farangs..........the music and noise is irritating at best.

For some reason Thais think that everyone needs to get up at 5:00 am in the morning listening to the worst Thai music possible.........and they also think that everyone must listen to them sing Karaoke like cats being strangled all night long.

No, this really isn't about farangs, except most farangs know there is a time and place to be loud and a time and place to be quiet.

It is noisy Thai culture..............coupled with a cultural concept that apparently thinks it is OK to disgregard the feelings of others in proximity to the noise.

I am not saying that is bad for Thais........it is their culture.

It is, however, extremely annoying to many farangs.

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Farangs in Thailand almost always congregate in the noisiest places that exist and then complain about the noise. I'm afraid this says much more about farang than Thais.

:):D My guess is that you have never lived in rural Thailand where there are few farangs..........the music and noise is irritating at best.

For some reason Thais think that everyone needs to get up at 5:00 am in the morning listening to the worst Thai music possible.........and they also think that everyone must listen to them sing Karaoke like cats being strangled all night long.

No, this really isn't about farangs, except most farangs know there is a time and place to be loud and a time and place to be quiet.

It is noisy Thai culture..............coupled with a cultural concept that apparently thinks it is OK to disgregard the feelings of others in proximity to the noise.

I am not saying that is bad for Thais........it is their culture.

It is, however, extremely annoying to many farangs.

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Farangs in Thailand almost always congregate in the noisiest places that exist and then complain about the noise. I'm afraid this says much more about farang than Thais.

:):D My guess is that you have never lived in rural Thailand where there are few farangs..........the music and noise is irritating at best.

For some reason Thais think that everyone needs to get up at 5:00 am in the morning listening to the worst Thai music possible.........and they also think that everyone must listen to them sing Karaoke like cats being strangled all night long.

No, this really isn't about farangs, except most farangs know there is a time and place to be loud and a time and place to be quiet.

It is noisy Thai culture..............coupled with a cultural concept that apparently thinks it is OK to disgregard the feelings of others in proximity to the noise.

I am not saying that is bad for Thais........it is their culture.

It is, however, extremely annoying to many farangs.

Was that something you realised before you came to Thailand?

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Here's a question for TAT in particular, and for anyone else:

In a shop or restaurant, has anyone ever been asked by a Thai proprietor whether the style of music is to their liking and/or whether the volume level is ok.

Perhaps one in ten million might have been asked the first question (style of music), but I would venture that no one, in the history of Thailand has ever been asked the 2nd question (volume).

Indeed, more than a few times, I've picked a relatively quiet restaurant (because it's not noisy, more than for any other reason), and within minutes, a worker there will go and turn up the music - even if I'm the only person there. Ok, maybe that person thinks they're doing me a favor, so it's an innocent gesture.

All in all, whenever I'm forced to approach the management about not wanting too-loud music/tv sounds, it's awkward. Even after 11 years residing here, am not sure the best wording. Because Thais are so easily offended, one must try to broach the subject as delicately as possible.

Is there a non-offensive way to say (in Thai) the following, "can you please turn down the volume?"

I wind up doing a little grin, and waving my hand, as if patting the floor, and saying as sweetly as I can, "baow baow, siang dontree sai noi dai mai? (softly, noise make less can you?) They get the meaning. Sometimes the music is turned from very loud to loud. Sometimes nothing is done. Sometimes it's turned off. But I always get the feeling, judging from 'body language' that the management gets offended. I don't mean to offend any one, I just don't like painful ears while eating.

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I live in a part of BKK where I rarely ever see a white guy. (30km from my office, so one might call it a suburb.)

And boy, do they like to play music and party at odd days of the week...luckily since more families with kids moved into some of the houses around, the music blast vs silent house ratio has shifted.

So the issue is not in bar-areas alone.

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Yes, the noise is one of the biggest factors. It is insideious it's absolutely everywhere and it is deafening.

I urge none of you who agree with the above statement to ever visit Vietnam, where the noise level is infinitely worse.

Every citizen of Saigon spends the entire day bawling at the top of their voices to each other about this, that, or nothing, and of course if you are a farang, they're forever grabbing your arm trying to get you to buy some useless gimcrack which a street kid will steal off you a minute later.

I find Thailand pleasantly quiet and gentle by comparison. Count your blessings.

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