Immigration Now Accepts Applications For Permanent Residency

[clockworkorange]

What are the benefits of PR, apart from not having to do reporting and renew the visa? I reckon for 200k baht one can quite a few 1yr non-O or non-B visas/extensions... PRs still need to apply for a work permit, and path to citizenship is not exactly easy (not that many people would want it anyway).

The benefits are not that great, but keep one thing in mind: visa renewal rules only get tougher. If you follow this forum, you will see how people are kept in a constant state of unease at frequent rule changes that threaten their right to continue living in Thailand.

As a PR, you aren't affected when they raise the bar. You can stay here no matter how hard they make visa renewals.

That's why I applied - peace of mind knowing that I was allowed to stay forever.

[scorecard]

My application was prepared and submitted by an agent who knew the process very well. His fee was 7,500Baht. Unfortunately he no longer lives in Thailand, he migrated to US.

Unintended irony or just a comment - whatever, gets my Vote for Quote of the Month (if there was such a category on TV!)

Patrick

No double meaning intended in any way. Just sharing the facts.

[opalhort]

Just found a new (today's) posting at the Immigration website about PR. Sorry all is in Thai.

Link1

and

Link2 (to a zip file)

opalhort

[scorecard]

100 per nationality? I would guess that if you are a Greenlander you would have a fair chance?

I don't believe the limit of 100 per nationality has ever been reached. There simply aren't that much applicants.

Agree with Mario.

I got PR about 14 years ago. For that year the total appoved was about 24 people. My understanding is that 3 countries got 5 each and the rest (about 9) spread across a number of countries.

My letter of approval was signed by General Prem.

My application was prepared and submitted by an agent who knew the process very well. His fee was 7,500Baht. Unfortunately he no longer lives in Thailand, he migrated to US.

If you were approved by General Prem, it must have been more than 14 years ago. He resigned as prime minister and left politics in 1988. I don't know which years he was interior minister with authority to sign PR approvals, or, indeed, if he ever was interior minister

When I applied I was told that only the Chinese and Indians ever reach the quota of 100 per nationality. Americans and Brits in that year were about 40 each and all other farang countries were less than that.

Gen Prem had gone from the PM position well before I got PR, and to be honest I don't know what position he was in when he signed the PR letter.

[beano2274]

If I came in Feb 2007 can I apply for it, I am still waiting for my approval for this years extension. My first years was based on Work since October 2008 on Marriage. I do not work in Thailand but have part time work, which I duly pay taxes on.

Thanks for any advice

[Sturbuc]

100 per nationality? I would guess that if you are a Greenlander you would have a fair chance?

Noop grenland belongs to Denmark.

BTW: Greenland is almost independant since June 2009....

[jb5music]

What are the benefits of PR, apart from not having to do reporting and renew the visa? I reckon for 200k baht one can quite a few 1yr non-O or non-B visas/extensions... PRs still need to apply for a work permit, and path to citizenship is not exactly easy (not that many people would want it anyway).

The benefits are not that great, but keep one thing in mind: visa renewal rules only get tougher. If you follow this forum, you will see how people are kept in a constant state of unease at frequent rule changes that threaten their right to continue living in Thailand.

As a PR, you aren't affected when they raise the bar. You can stay here no matter how hard they make visa renewals.

That's why I applied - peace of mind knowing that I was allowed to stay forever.

When these constant state of uneasiness visa rules keep changing the way they do (which you seem to have noticed - then it's not just me)

don't you get the hint someones trying work you out of the picture? So if you achieve PR what peace of mind do you have where

they make it obvious they don't want you? Since they can change the visa rules that govern your staying

so easily and frequently and detrimentally do you think they wouldn't stop at some way to harass you right

towards the door even if you have PR. Unless you can actually perfectly blend in unnoticeably as a Thai

even though you are not.

[thaiphoon]

If I came in Feb 2007 can I apply for it, I am still waiting for my approval for this years extension. My first years was based on Work since October 2008 on Marriage. I do not work in Thailand but have part time work, which I duly pay taxes on.

Thanks for any advice

You need 3 consecutive 1 year extensions plus paying (substantial) taxes during the whole 3 years to apply for PR. Have a look at the pinned topic "Camerata's Guide to the PR Process" for more information.

[beano2274]

thanks for the info thaiphoon, I don't pay substantial taxes but will see what happens next year.

[bkkexplorer]

I have had a spouse visa for over three years through the 400,000 option. I haven't paid taxes through this option. Does this mean i do not qualify for PR status if i were to apply?

thanks.

[Methoz6]

Well - good luck folks, I've had it since 2002. I can apply for citizenship already - but, as someone said, who wants that. Just imagine visiting your folks back home - you'll need a visitors visa... lol

Here's how it looks...

2_Thai_Doc01.bmp

[inquisitive]

After reading the various info I'm still confused on the income and tax issues for PR.

Can a person on a Retirement Stay of Extension living on a pension/savings (i.e. not working in Thailand) meet the PR requirements? Or, do you have to have been working in Thailand (with work permit of course) and paying Thai taxes? I "think" from reading the PR requirements you would have had to been working and paying Thai taxes. Thanks for any info/clarifications.

I'm afraid that taxes are a must. Hard on retirees that they can't graduate to PR.

I can't reply to this with first hand experience since I never received PR. At the same time, I would say my experience is first-hand "half-experience". A month or two ago I went to the Immigration bureau to get the application. At that time I sat down and talked with some fairly high-up guy that was going to retire three days later. This is to say that he said was well experienced in the department. He was also not very encouraging at first, telling me before he even knew my circumstances that the application process was probably a waste of time for me as I would not pass anyway. This was handled so much in the normal beurocratic style that it kind of sealed the deal for me so far as believeing that he had been in the department for a long time and knew the party line by heart.

I smiled and thanked him and said that I would still like to learn more about the process and gradually, gradually he came around to actually trying to help me. (Very Thai and very "government" anywhere in the world.) I explained to him that I had been here on a retirement visa for something like 7 consecutive years, and as a result I had long time residency but no employment (and thus no taxes). On the other hand, I had helped out many projects at Chula and for the King without compensation, and he really liked that. (Actually, I was worried that he might say that I had essentially been working without a permit in violation of labor and immigration laws, but it seemed to work out OK.) My Thai family was also with me,and that may also have helped. Who knows? What I can say is that he seemed unfazed by the lack of taxes and even explained some of the fine details I need to cover in my application (for example, he said I should get an income statement from the US Embassy and be sure it is translated at a government approved place). He certainly encouraged me to apply knowing full well that I had never paid any tax whatever. In fact, he said he was sorry that he would not be the one to accept the application, and that I should call him on his cell phone if I had any more questions!

In my case he sugested that I apply under the "special circumstances" category with a leter from a level 10 person, and maybe that makes a difference. I don't know. Hopefully someone here may have actually obtained PR while on a retirement visa, but since that would have been at least four years ago, one would still wonder whether the old rules would still apply.

Anyway, for better or worse, that was my experience to this point. I hope that helps.

[Arkady]

I have had a spouse visa for over three years through the 400,000 option. I haven't paid taxes through this option. Does this mean i do not qualify for PR status if i were to apply?

thanks.

Technically I think you do qualify but in practice I think not. There is a category for those who are supporting direct Thai family in Thailand. I think this includes spouses rather than just those with Thai children but would need to check. I seem to recall that some one posted about his application using this category in Camerata's thread and said that at first Immigration refused to accept it but they eventually did when he insisted. This doesn't seem to bode well for his application but you never know. Clearly he wouldn't have heard anything yet due to the backlog. I think that Immigration is only interested in taking applications from people who apply through the business quota and they have a say in gets approved. I suspect they would be prepared to consider an exception for some one supporting direct Thai dependants in Thailand who could demonstrate that he had substantial investments, preferably in Thailand, that paid significant dividend or rental income. But they have to be satisfied that applicants can support themselves and the most convincing way to do that in their book is for them to have a profession and a secure job in Thailand, i.e. applicants from the business quota which requires three years in the same job paying not less than 80,000 baht a month (and preferably considerably more).

Please research for yourself but my view would be that, since the application is quite burdensome in terms of documentation and is currently taking them several years to process, it would not be worth the trouble and expense of putting in a marginal application that you think has a low degree of probability of being approve. They have in the past rejected many people who they considered borderline in terms of their income or employment and they have absolute disgression with no avenue of appeal. A brave (or foolish) Swiss man's case to sue the interior minister (Purachai) after being rejected was tossed out by the court out of hand.

[Arkady]

Gen Prem had gone from the PM position well before I got PR, and to be honest I don't know what position he was in when he signed the PR letter.

It doesn't really matter but there is no way that Prem could have signed your approval letter 14 years ago and, if he did, then it would be invalid because only the interior minister has the authority to approve PR under The Immigration Act. Prem was only a member of the Privy Council 14 years ago and has never been interior minister, although he was deputy interior minister from 1977-78. Mine was signed by Banharn 13 years ago when he was interior minister but was about to leave the job. He decently cleared his in-tray and signed everything in it before handing the job on (a lesson governments should study today). I was not given a copy, even though I asked for one, but I did get to see it at Immigration.

[CWMcMurray]

Just curious about your visa status after submitting your application.... do you still have to do your annual visa extensions just like every other year or is there a special "Under Consideration for PR" visa status given???

[Methoz6]

Just curious about your visa status after submitting your application.... do you still have to do your annual visa extensions just like every other year or is there a special "Under Consideration for PR" visa status given???

They'll give you "Under Consideration for PR" visa status for 3 months...then three 3 months...then three 3 months...then three 3 months...then three 3 months...then three 3 months....

That is - until you get approved (Permanent Res Book), very annoying....

Edited December 18, 2009 by Methoz6

[CWMcMurray]

Do they charge you 1900 each time?

Will they allow you to time it to coincide with your 90 reporting?

[stbkk]

My 'Under consideration' extensions are for 6 months at a time.

They are free, and very quick and simple. No photo's, just go and fill in the form and 5 minutes later off you go with the new stamp.

The 90 day reporting obviously depends on your exit/re-entries to the country, if any. If you never leave the country and they are in sync., they will remain so.

[Screws]

I smiled and thanked him and said that I would still like to learn more about the process and gradually, gradually he came around to actually trying to help me. (Very Thai and very "government" anywhere in the world.) I explained to him that I had been here on a retirement visa for something like 7 consecutive years, and as a result I had long time residency but no employment (and thus no taxes). On the other hand, I had helped out many projects at Chula and for the King without compensation, and he really liked that. (Actually, I was worried that he might say that I had essentially been working without a permit in violation of labor and immigration laws, but it seemed to work out OK.) My Thai family was also with me,and that may also have helped. Who knows? What I can say is that he seemed unfazed by the lack of taxes and even explained some of the fine details I need to cover in my application (for example, he said I should get an income statement from the US Embassy and be sure it is translated at a government approved place). He certainly encouraged me to apply knowing full well that I had never paid any tax whatever. In fact, he said he was sorry that he would not be the one to accept the application, and that I should call him on his cell phone if I had any more questions!

Merit making takes many forms. Perhaps 'somebodys moggy lies on the side of the road'

[paulito]

i read in the advantages of a permanent residence that i can have my name included on a house registration document.

Does this mean it's allowed to buy a house and/or land when i have a permanent residence?

Paulito

[emile184]

I went to Sunbelt Asia and they gave me a free consultation of all the requirements for permanent residency. I didn't go ahead with it but the information was very useful

[Time Traveller]

After reading the various info I'm still confused on the income and tax issues for PR.

Can a person on a Retirement Stay of Extension living on a pension/savings (i.e. not working in Thailand) meet the PR requirements? Or, do you have to have been working in Thailand (with work permit of course) and paying Thai taxes? I "think" from reading the PR requirements you would have had to been working and paying Thai taxes. Thanks for any info/clarifications.

I'm afraid that taxes are a must. Hard on retirees that they can't graduate to PR.

Not just taxes, you must be working in Thailand.

[Time Traveller]

I have had a spouse visa for over three years through the 400,000 option. I haven't paid taxes through this option. Does this mean i do not qualify for PR status if i were to apply?

thanks.

Technically I think you do qualify but in practice I think not. There is a category for those who are supporting direct Thai family in Thailand. I think this includes spouses rather than just those with Thai children but would need to check. I seem to recall that some one posted about his application using this category in Camerata's thread and said that at first Immigration refused to accept it but they eventually did when he insisted. This doesn't seem to bode well for his application but you never know. Clearly he wouldn't have heard anything yet due to the backlog. I think that Immigration is only interested in taking applications from people who apply through the business quota and they have a say in gets approved. I suspect they would be prepared to consider an exception for some one supporting direct Thai dependants in Thailand who could demonstrate that he had substantial investments, preferably in Thailand, that paid significant dividend or rental income. But they have to be satisfied that applicants can support themselves and the most convincing way to do that in their book is for them to have a profession and a secure job in Thailand, i.e. applicants from the business quota which requires three years in the same job paying not less than 80,000 baht a month (and preferably considerably more).

Please research for yourself but my view would be that, since the application is quite burdensome in terms of documentation and is currently taking them several years to process, it would not be worth the trouble and expense of putting in a marginal application that you think has a low degree of probability of being approve. They have in the past rejected many people who they considered borderline in terms of their income or employment and they have absolute disgression with no avenue of appeal. A brave (or foolish) Swiss man's case to sue the interior minister (Purachai) after being rejected was tossed out by the court out of hand.

Effectively you need to show you have an income hence the thai tax returns. However, last year I was considering applying and was told that you also need to be currently employed and have worked in the current job for more than a year. So according to the officers that accept the applications if you do have an income that only comes from investments (even if you previously worked in Thailand in the past) and also have tax returns each year then this is not enough for the basic application. You also need to be currently working, in addition to the other category specific requirements.

By the way I think the links on the website are dead, there is no information there.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Time Traveller

[3100034]

With permanent residency status, must the foreigner continue to report to Immigration every 90 days?

Also, does the buy-in for permanent residence amount to nearly 200,000 baht?

1. No you do not.

2. Yes id does, unless you are married to a Thai in which case it is just under 100,000.

Hope that helps.

Hi can you make this clear for me "if you are married to a thai and not officaily diviorced" is that the same !

many thanks

[Screws]

"Thai Immigration Bureau now accepts applications for permanent residency. The application window for 2009 is open until December 31, 2009."

George - why is it better to be last cab off the 2009 rank than first off the 2010?

[stbkk]

"Thai Immigration Bureau now accepts applications for permanent residency. The application window for 2009 is open until December 31, 2009."

George - why is it better to be last cab off the 2009 rank than first off the 2010?

Because the 2010 cab rank won't be open until December 2010....

[stbkk]

With permanent residency status, must the foreigner continue to report to Immigration every 90 days?

Also, does the buy-in for permanent residence amount to nearly 200,000 baht?

1. No you do not.

2. Yes id does, unless you are married to a Thai in which case it is just under 100,000.

Hope that helps.

Hi can you make this clear for me "if you are married to a thai and not officaily diviorced" is that the same !

many thanks

Sorry, no idea! However, you do need a degree of support from your wife, including photos, copies of wedding certificate etc. so if you are not on good terms with your 'not divorced' wife, you may find it difficult.

Edited January 30, 2010 by thaiphoon
Line spacing adjusted

[camerata]

i read in the advantages of a permanent residence that i can have my name included on a house registration document.

Does this mean it's allowed to buy a house and/or land when i have a permanent residence?

Paulito

No. It means you have to be on a house registration certificate somewhere. And you can buy a condo without importing the funds from overseas.

[Jaggg88]

Anyone now how I can get the "Certification that the applicant has no criminal record in his or her overseas domicile", I'm originally from Canada but have lived in Thailand since 1994, haven't been back to Canada since 1995.

Appreciate if someone knows of a way to get this in the shortest period of time, I would like to apply under the spouse category, I have over 10 years continual stay uninterrupted, but I don't have the above certificate.

Thanks in advance for all that reply.

I am from the UK. I wrote to the central police department (found it on the web) and they wrote back saying they are not allowed to say if someone has a criminal record. They did write that to the best of their knowledge I did NOT have a criminal record and local immigration accepted that.

In the UK under the Data Protection Act everyone is entitled to a copy of their criminal record or proof the isn't one. I did this a couple of years ago and it cost £40 plus I had to send ID to the local police HQ in Manchester where I live. No doubt the current government has increased the fee since then.

[simoncnx]

can anyone tell me of anyone who has had their application accepted in the last three years?