ใจฝ่อ

[DavidHouston]

From the Lexicon dictionary:

ใจฝ่อ [is] downcast; scared; frightened; disheartened; despondent Syn. กลัว, ตกใจ, ใจเสาะ, ใจแป้ว Ant. ใจกล้า, ใจสู้.

come the following sample sentences:

1. คนใจฝ่ออย่างเขาไม่กล้าขึ้นชกในครั้งนี้แน่นอน , and

2. แค่ได้เห็นเห็นคู่ต่อสู้เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

I am having trouble understanding both sentences.

The first sentence might be, "Someone who is as frightened as he is will certainly not dare to fight this time."

The second might be, "Every potential opponent who sees him gets discouraged." or "You only have to see him fight to become frightened."

Can someone help me understand these sentences? Thanks.

[aanon]

The first sentence does have some challenges/ambiguities but I'll leave it for later.

I think you can look at the second sentence in a simpler way (I think the double เห็น was a typo):

แค่[cause]ได้เห็นคู่ต่อสู้ [effect]เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

If it were intended the way you read it, it is much more likely to have been written:

แค่[cause]ได้เห็นเขา [effect]คู่ต่อสู้รู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

This (the way I assume you read it) is not impossible but, without further context, unlikely:

แค่[cause]ได้เห็น(unspecified object) [effect]คู่ต่อสู้เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

[tgeezer]

I like to translate word for word (แปลตามพยัญชนะ) as you know and I can make some sense of it like this:

แค่ได้เห็น as far as I can see( my point of view is) เห็นคู่ต่อสู่เขา looking at this pair. Without the repeated เห็น it wouldn't change much so maybe it is a misprint.

[aanon]

I like to translate word for word (แปลตามพยัญชนะ) as you know and I can make some sense of it like this:

แค่ได้เห็น as far as I can see( my point of view is) เห็นคู่ต่อสู่เขา looking at this pair. Without the repeated เห็น it wouldn't change much so maybe it is a misprint.

You can translate strictly as long as you break up and understand the components correctly.

แค่ here roughly means 'merely'

ได้เห็น means 'having seen' or 'seeing'

คู่ต่อสู้ means 'opponent'

note: คู่ in Thai often means not 'a pair', but rather the other half of a pair

คู่รัก: lover

คู่ปรับ: enemy/nemesis

คู่ซ้อม: sparring partner

คู่ค้า: trading partner

I'm suggesting:

แค่ได้เห็นคู่ต่อสู้ เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

strict: merely seeing opponent, he feel disheartened* totally

idiomatic: At the mere sight of his opponent, he became totally disheartened*.

hope that helps.

* I could also have said 'scared' or used 'he lost his nerve'

[SoftWater]

note: คู่ in Thai often means not 'a pair', but rather the other half of a pair 

คู่รัก: lover

คู่ปรับ: enemy/nemesis

คู่ซ้อม: sparring partner

คู่ค้า: trading partner

Thanks aanon. I've rarely found much use for คู่ as 'pair' and don't meet it often, but that tip above adds a whole new dimension of useful contexts for it. 

[tgeezer]

I like to translate word for word (แปลตามพยัญชนะ) as you know and I can make some sense of it like this:

แค่ได้เห็น as far as I can see( my point of view is) เห็นคู่ต่อสู่เขา looking at this pair. Without the repeated เห็น it wouldn't change much so maybe it is a misprint.

You can translate strictly as long as you break up and understand the components correctly.

แค่ here roughly means 'merely'

ได้เห็น means 'having seen' or 'seeing'

คู่ต่อสู้ means 'opponent'

note: คู่ in Thai often means not 'a pair', but rather the other half of a pair

คู่รัก: lover

คู่ปรับ: enemy/nemesis

คู่ซ้อม: sparring partner

คู่ค้า: trading partner

I'm suggesting:

แค่ได้เห็นคู่ต่อสู้ เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

strict: merely seeing opponent, he feel disheartened* totally

idiomatic: At the mere sight of his opponent, he became totally disheartened*.

hope that helps.

* I could also have said 'scared' or used 'he lost his nerve'

Which just goes to show that my method doesn't work, especially because I should have seperated the two sentences and started with the second เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด; I wouldn't have made much sense of the fist sentence though; I would have had 'only seeing two people fighting'

Its a laugh trying to work this stuff out.

[tgeezer]

I only use the RID so my efforts are limited to what it contains. คู่ means 'pair or even number, I think that most of the examples above are not in the RID. คู่รัก is and it does say คนรัก singular or plural depending on context I suppose.

I don't doubt that if you use that example, you can combine คู่ with any verb and get a new singular meaning, and I am sure that it is what is happening, the RID can't keep up. ต่อสู้ ก.รบกัน ตีรบกัน is in the latest edition but not คู่ต่อสู่

แค่ได้เห็นคู่ต่อสู่ could be 'only the sight of the other pair fighting' (maybe he will fight the winner) I think that the sentences are reversed for impact, so 'merely the sight of' is the main point. could you dress it up a bit in that case? eg. 'It only took the sight of ..'

I am going to change my method as a result of this and will check other sources before going out on a limb, also these are such simple sentences apart from เห็นเห็น that is it disappointing not to have seen them for what they were.

[meadish_sweetball]

To me your translation of the first sentence seems correct, David.

Will be interested to hear what aanon has to say about it later as I am unable to see a different interpretation, except that the pronoun เขา has floating usage in the spoken language so that it does not always mean 'he, she, they' but in some cases also 'I'.

[aanon]

To me your translation of the first sentence seems correct, David.

Will be interested to hear what aanon has to say about it later as I am unable to see a different interpretation, except that the pronoun เขา has floating usage in the spoken language so that it does not always mean 'he, she, they' but in some cases also 'I'.

David, Meadish...

The ambiguities I perceive are in whether we take คน(X)อย่างเขา to refer to a temporary state* or a persistent characteristic and whether we take ใจฝ่อ as frightened, unnerved, disheartened or, possibly (depending on your first choice), cowardly.

* This seems to be right, based on further reading.

Edited December 25, 2009 by aanon

[DavidHouston]

Khun Aanon,

2. แค่ได้เห็นเห็นคู่ต่อสู้ เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

Would you translate this something like:

"Having seen his opponent, he was beset with fear" ? Or,

"They became discouraged when they saw whom they were up against." Or,

"They all quivered in fear when they saw their opponents. Or,

"Everyone [but David] became sore afraid when they beheld Goliath." ?

Edited December 25, 2009 by DavidHouston

[yoot]

1. คนใจฝ่ออย่างเขาไม่กล้าขึ้นชกในครั้งนี้แน่นอน

I would translate it to "A disheartened person like him will certainly not dare to fight this time.

I'm suggesting:

แค่ได้เห็นคู่ต่อสู้ เขารู้สึกใจฝ่อหมด

strict: merely seeing opponent, he feel disheartened* totally

idiomatic: At the mere sight of his opponent, he became totally disheartened*.

I like this suggestion.