The "my Bpen Rai" Conundrum

[lannarebirth]

Caf, the problem is that the '65 book by Hollinger may have got it wrong.

In the early 70's I was listening to some Thai culture experts (which I am not claiming to be) critique the book "Mai Bpen Rai".

Although Mai Pen Rai (MPR) is often translated as "nevermind", "no worries", etc (as posted above) in fact, the meaning can be much deeper and menacing depending on the situation -- thus, there is probably no equivalent in English.

Think of the context in which Thais are smiling when they are actually quite angry. There are situations in which MPR is said when, in fact, it means the opposite.

Ex-pat residents of Thailand should learn how to recognize the benign from the malignant MPR -- for the purposes of self-preservation.

It's all good.

[caf]

Caf, the problem is that the '65 book by Hollinger may have got it wrong.

In the early 70's I was listening to some Thai culture experts (which I am not claiming to be) critique the book "Mai Bpen Rai".

Although Mai Pen Rai (MPR) is often translated as "nevermind", "no worries", etc (as posted above) in fact, the meaning can be much deeper and menacing depending on the situation -- thus, there is probably no equivalent in English.

Think of the context in which Thais are smiling when they are actually quite angry. There are situations in which MPR is said when, in fact, it means the opposite.

Ex-pat residents of Thailand should learn how to recognize the benign from the malignant MPR -- for the purposes of self-preservation.

I think she did get it wrong. I said in my post that she concentrated on the positive side. She was never a long term expat, she knew she was returning to america after her husband's tour of duty ended. And as I said there are two sides of the coin. That is why I posted as a reply to Sheryl's post which I thought was a pretty good summary.

The book is a good read but I perhaps did not make it clear that it was not the last word on the subject, far from it.

[cognos]

"..Given the extreme non-confrontational attitude thais in general exhibit (until pushed past the invisible line and going into “all-out-murder-mode"); understanding the context of a situation where the phrase "mai-bpen-rai" is spoken, is critical..."

OY, je comprende, I understand, cow jai khrap.. there are many ways to subjectively interpret when my bpen rai khrap is spoken, but you better get it right the FIRST TIME. My wife's family is Buddhist, and she is a Thai Christian.

I know they are great (Buddhist) people, her family, but I have always INSTRINSICALLY felt very strongly that it would be potentially "deadly" to screw up ( like having a mia noi,for example, and them finding out).

If they were Christians, they MAY forgive, but I have a feeling as Buddhists, I would be a dead man if I messed up too badly. NOTE: I respect Buddhists!! They may say my bpen rai, but it could be a subtle term for a death sentence. signed: not "screwing up"

[caf]

"..Given the extreme non-confrontational attitude thais in general exhibit (until pushed past the invisible line and going into "all-out-murder-mode"); understanding the context of a situation where the phrase "mai-bpen-rai" is spoken, is critical..."

OY, je comprende, I understand, cow jai khrap.. there are many ways to subjectively interpret when my bpen rai khrap is spoken, but you better get it right the FIRST TIME. My wife's family is Buddhist, and she is a Thai Christian.

I know they are great (Buddhist) people, her family, but I have always INSTRINSICALLY felt very strongly that it would be potentially "deadly" to screw up ( like having a mia noi,for example, and them finding out).

If they were Christians, they MAY forgive, but I have a feeling as Buddhists, I would be a dead man if I messed up too badly. NOTE: I respect Buddhists!! They may say my bpen rai, but it could be a subtle term for a death sentence. signed: not "screwing up"

Good way of putting it, Cognos.

I've been here many years and I'm still learning the different meanings of mae bhen rai

My opinion only, but I find Thais don't discuss rationally. They suddenly switch from appearing to understand a viewpoint to dealing with the "problem" aggressivly.

Sicilian culture is a bit different, the discussion is rationale until no compromise or agreement is reached. then the smile and the kiss is the signal that a decision has been taken to resolve the issue by other means.

In Thailand keep trying to smile and watch for the signal that they will not go much further. Then compromise or move away before it is too late.

Sicily, keep reasoning and stop when it is going no further.

[stolidfeline]

I can't believe the people who state that the locals don't get worked up over small issues, compared with Europeans. It is quite the opposite, and it is one of the reasons that the "mai pen rai" has come to be used to defuse situations. People are very afraid to start issues because they know that things can get quickly out of hand. That is why normal people here are very, very afraid to confront anyone and why lawless has become commonplace.

Road rage is far, far worse than people on this forum seem to think - often ending in serious beatings, knifing, or gunfire. There are hundreds of thousands of victims in Thailand who you don't see, because they are permanently disabled.

I just wasted a whole day trying to get a faulty appliance repaired or replaced under the warranty. A day of people smiling at me, saying "mai pen rai" and walking off.

Mai Pen Rai ...

[PeaceBlondie]

My plea may fall on deaf ears, but I say, "Okay, it does not matter to you. It matters to me, so we do it my way."

[cognos]

my wife is finally in Canada( in the winter season ), and last night she was crying, as she feels I leave her alone at times, so she feels very lonely. We have a great relationship, (but she misses her large family in Phuket), and I need to attend to this problem ASAP. like now. signed: NOT my bpen rai khrap

[thaiedward]

The "mai ben rai" bit is charming when it is in a context which when you think about it, is not really so serious that one should get worked up over it. In that context it is a nice reminder not to create unnecessary tension.

It is a whole lot less charming when it occurs in the context of your house being in the path of a raging forest fire, or from an electrician (or so called electrician) wiring your house, or from medical personnel etc etc

Good comment, I agree. I also agree with phetaroi. The lack of care in dealing with dangerous situations astounds me in Thailand. I see over loaded trucks everywhere. I see whole families sitting on top of junk stacked in little trucks, with the junk so high it is unstable. And the truck is sailing along at highway speeds.

Although there IS some road rage in Thailand, it is nowhere near as bad as in North America where infractions that are nowhere near as serious get people shooting each other.

Bingo!

[geriatrickid]

If it doesn't matter to them, and it matters to me, we will do things my way.

By them do you mean "thais" generally.

Them has a nicer ring than terms such as the "help", the "staff", the "minions".

[PeaceBlondie]

If it doesn't matter to them, and it matters to me, we will do things my way.

By them do you mean "thais" generally.

Them has a nicer ring than terms such as the "help", the "staff", the "minions".

"My bpen rai" ain't a common term in Honduras. It's a Thai language term commonly told by Thais to fellow Thais of varying social status. If something doesn't matter to Thais, they can do it my way. OTOH, if mai bpen rai refers to how my pen writes, they need to explain that.

[caf]

If it doesn't matter to them, and it matters to me, we will do things my way.

By them do you mean "thais" generally.

Them has a nicer ring than terms such as the "help", the "staff", the "minions".

"My bpen rai" ain't a common term in Honduras. It's a Thai language term commonly told by Thais to fellow Thais of varying social status. If something doesn't matter to Thais, they can do it my way. OTOH, if mai bpen rai refers to how my pen writes, they need to explain that.

Interesting point about Honduras.