Thai Woman Wants Her Baby Back From Canada

[eljeque]

I know a Thai woman who recently returned from Canada. Her husband scared her into returning to Thailand and kept their baby, who is now with his 80+ year old parents.

They lived together in Oman where the baby was born.

He got her to sign a document which he wrote stating that she would allow their baby to reside with his parents while he was working in Saudi.

She cannot read enough English to possibly understand the document she signed.

I know the story to be true, as I know someone who knows the man.

The woman now lives in Bkk and works as a cook.

Does anyone know if there is a women's group in Bangkok (Canadian Women's Group) or equivalent, or in Canada, Thai Women's Group in Canada, or anything else like this?

Thanks for any of your ideas.

Edited December 30, 2009 by eljeque

[Mario2008]

The question is, in which country is the baby, I presume Canada and which nationality has the father?

[BBQueen]

Sorry, you are only telling us YOUR version of HER side of the story. But, any of the liberal lawyers who abound here in Canada would help this lady out pro bono (we Canadians will pay for it, of course, not of our own free will).

[sbk]

Since the OP is actually looking for recommendations for women's organizations, then that might be more helpful.

Paveena Foundation would probably be a start:

(http://www.pavena.thai.com/tmain.html)

Their current address is located at:

82/12 Soi Ramintra 39

Ramintra Victory Monument Rd

Bang Khaen, Bangkok 10220

Tel. 02-552-6570

Fax. 02-552-5577

Pager. 1144-92-080

[geriatrickid]

Once legal counsel is secured, the first step is to contact the respective province's department of family services. Almost all of the provinces have easy to use websites that provide useful information. The current position of the various provincial court systems is to leave custody with the mother, unless there is evidence that she is unfit. Even though the mother may have signed a document assigning custody, it can be put aside by a court if such custody is not in the best interest of the child and there was an absence of informed consent.

Although there may be a social policy position in favour of the mother, in this case I anticipate that it will be one heck of a struggle. It doesn't matter if the father's parents are elderly, so long as they can provide a good home for the child. If the child is in a safe and nurturing environment with full access to social benefits such as medical care, education etc., the single mother working as a cook in Bangkok will have a hard time convincing the court to uproot the child to send her to a city in a country where there is no guarantee of health care, education or social services.

As an aside, although I can appreciate a mother's need to be reunited with her child, how is such a reunification in the child's best interest? If the grandparents in Canada can raise the child, how is it any different than the Issan ladies that send their kids back to the village to be cared for by the extended family? Maybe the mother and the child would be best served if the mother corresponded with the inlaws. Sometimes, the grandparents know a son is an idiot and try to do the right thing. That might mean making sure the child stays in contact with the mother. That might also mean gaining the support of the grandparents and that would go along way in quashing the legal arguments of the father.

[IanForbes]

There has been some good advice here. Not all Canadians are of Caucasian background and willing to do the best thing for the child, and a few have more ties to their families in other countries, such as India and Pakistan where other rules apply. I am wondering why the elderly parents of the father are looking after the child and not the father himself.

[sbk]

Per OP Ian, husband is in Saudi working

[TruthWillOut]

BBQueen you sound like a real class act....

[eljeque]

Sorry, you are only telling us YOUR version of HER side of the story. But, any of the liberal lawyers who abound here in Canada would help this lady out pro bono (we Canadians will pay for it, of course, not of our own free will).

As I have known someone for 8 years who has worked with the husband for a few years, and know her story to be accurate.

Edited December 31, 2009 by eljeque

[eljeque]

I thank everyone for their ideas and advice. :-)

And, I would no doubt agree that it would be in the best interests of the child to be raised in Canada rather than Thailand, with all of the benefits which Canada affords its citizens... and the mother still has the right to see her baby.

[sbk]

Since the mother was once resident in Canada, does she still have a visa? If not, she needs to get some help contacting the Canadian embassy to see what she can do so that she can see her child.

I only know of the Paveena foundation I am afraid, but they could at least be able to point her in the right direction, esp since you say her english skills are limited.

[submaniac]

I have a feeling that this will be a very uphill battle, even if she does find an attorney in Canada. I have real doubts about any officials or judges in Canada allowing a child to leave a first world country like Canada, to go live in a third world country like Thailand. From my experience, generally the courts and officials tend to prefer that a very young child have the mother as having primary custody. Of course, the father would 100% have visitation rights, and maybe/perhaps joint custody with the child (depending on circumstances and provided that there are no issues that the father or mother would have problems--like substance abuse--taking care of the child). The problem here would be that the Canadian courts would want to ensure that the father have his visitation rights, and of utmost concern would be the welfare of the child. If the mother takes the child back to Thailand, Canada would have no control over what happens in Thailand. The father would scream that he would loose his visitation rights, and he'd probably be right. The officials in Canada would not be too up on letting the child go back to Thailand and potentially exclude the father from ever seeing the child again. On top of that, Canada would most likely think that Thailand is a third world country, and the child would have a better education, better healthcare system (Canada has universal free healthcare--unlike Thailand, or even the U.S. for that matter), and a better future. Hence, the most likely scenario would be the child would have to stay in Canada.

Really, if she tries to fight for the child in Canada, she's not going to win. Think about this: if the child were already in Thailand and it was the father that wanted to get him out of Thailand to go to Canada, what do you think a Thai court would do? They'd probably say "Thailand is a better country the kid has to stay here". There has been worldwide news coverage of Andrew Goldman, who is American, and whose ex-wife took their child to Brazil. The wife died, and the kid is still in Brazil, living with the wife's second husband. The guy has been stalled by the legal system in Brazil from getting his child back. There was another story I read about an American father travelling to Japan to get his child back, and the Japanese officials charging him with kidnapping.

[Mario2008]

Not formiliar with canadian court cases, but would think it is not that black and white. The judge will firstly look at who will provide a child with a safe enviorement, not necesarrlily the best education etc. Another point is that the child currently isn't staying with either of the parents and the courts will prefer the mother over the grandparents.

[eljeque]

Since the mother was once resident in Canada, does she still have a visa? If not, she needs to get some help contacting the Canadian embassy to see what she can do so that she can see her child.

The mother was there on a three month visa. She cannot return without the help of her husband, who no doubt has no interest in assisting her.

I agreee with all that it would be a mountain climb, not simply an uphill battle, but for the courts not to allow the woman to see her child, who was in fact separated from her in a very sneaky and aggressive way, seems a bit far-fetched as well, eventhough the court reviewing the case (if there ever is one) would not be the one to make decisions on a visa for the mother.

Edited December 31, 2009 by eljeque

[mssabai]

And, I would no doubt agree that it would be in the best interests of the child to be raised in Canada rather than Thailand, with all of the benefits which Canada affords its citizens... and the mother still has the right to see her baby.

I am sorry but I cannot agree with this statement. Yes Canada has better benefits and provisions than Thailand but, and without intending to sound schmaltzy, what a child needs most of all to grow into a well rounded person is love. That's it. The fact that this child has been in effect taken forcibly from their mother and now is denied a relationship with their mother means that whatever 'benefits' are being offered to it as a Canadian citizen are completely undermined. This is kidnap pure and simple, and I wish the mother all the hope and support possible in getting her child back. God knows how powerless and helpless she must feel right now feeling like the first world weight of Canada and it's 'benefits' is against her.

[TheJoker12]

The baby should live in Isaan and the father should be forced to make large alimony and child care payments! That poor Thai lady, forced out! Sorry, but it seems more likely if the baby was taken away that it was for a reason. Did this woman like to gamble or like the booze?

Edited January 4, 2010 by TheJoker12

[LadyHeather]

Perhaps the husband is just a control freak? Why must there be "something wrong" with the woman?

[TheJoker12]

if you read this forum you know the endless "thai woman" stories. sure, some farang are just as bad, but those bad farang would probably just abandon the child and mother. OP offers none of what happened, its suspicious.

[eljeque]

The man is now on wife number 5

Her drinks a lot. A LOT!

He has been busted with booze in Saudi. That generally happens only to lushes. Most other people can control themselves.

Once again. I know someone who has known him for a few years. The story is legitimate.