German/thai Student Dies Of Electrocution In Phuket

[TheBrit]

As an Electrician, it does amaze me why Thai buildings (including ones farang have built for them)

are always missing the Earth, as well as being wired up completely wrong.

The very sad thing is, that there are laws that the Thai's are meant to abide by and sign a certificate saying the electrical installation is safe. Obviously no one checks or actually cares.

I would also say, I was checking out the wiring in the new Shell Petrol Station in Phuket, and being Shell, i would have thought their would be standards... Alas I was wrong. Very poorly wired with 3 phase 25mm cables coming in, earthed by a 4mm cable... = death when a problem occurs. But at least there was an Earth.... did it work... dunno... maybe it just looked good.

TB

So you are saying these electrocutions occur due to faulty wiring within the structures themselves? I was under the impression it was the shower units that caused it.

A faulty unit would short out, and POP the ELCB as they call it here.

Without an Earth it doesn't really work.

RCD's (known in the UK) monitor the power flowing through the wires. If one pulls more power than another, it SHOULD trip out. But since they are cheap slapped together things with stickers on them saying things like - UK Design, German Design - which maybe true, but none of the wirings, quality or anything else is to any standards.

Your WHOLE house should have an RCD - so when there is a problem on any electrical product in your house, you would be protected.

I recently installed a 2m earth stake into a shop owned/run by a Westerner.

TB

[thaibkk]

seems to be a bad time for farang to be in phuket

no ground wiring i guess... father should sue...

[BOS2BKK]

Don't forget these guys are pushing to get Nuclear power plants too... Nuclear power in the hands of people with a complete disregard for safety is a bad thing.

[AsiaCheese]

Hey, how about bending forum rules somewhat with the goal to save lifes:

list a bunch of electricians who know what they're doing in various areas...

What's a life worth??

[TheBrit]

I really would like to know how many are electrocuted in LOS

each year.

When my shower water heater stopped working the manager

had to replace it 4 times before we got hot water.

But the 2nd time my wife complained she was shocked when

turning on the water. My wife or daughter could have easily

been electrocuted.

I wonder if the shower fixtures were all made of plastic rather than

metal if the death rate from this problem might not plummet.

This was happening to my friend in Patong. The water was carrying the electric into the shower. I told him 100% to not have a shower until it was fixed, and the owner of the guest house or whatever, wouldnt fix it saying it was only happening to him. It wasnt until other people complained they were getting shocks through the water something was done.

This proves 100% there is NO safety whatsoever on the installed system. If you are getting shocks off of ANYTHING it means their is NO earth, or it has never been connected properly, and also the plugs and sockets only have 2 pins.

TB

[ZeroNull]

@TheBrit: 100% agree.

Thai electric installation you have to double check yourself. Dont trust.

And learn the word the words "sai din" สายดิน. If you dont tell you need it

they will not do any grounding (earth).

Last i tried to buy some edge conncectors at shopping mall.

Its nearly impossible to get a connector strip with a proper ground

connection here. Even if it has holes for plugs with ground,

it may be not wired/connected inside.

Zero Null

[svenserge]

How ironic, first an Israeli and now a German. I am still a bit afraid when they call me in the middle of the night: Mitkommen Duschen ...

@mythBuster: Well, I think that was more than inappropriate! cynicism, when a young human died so senselessly.

RIP [/b]

[thaibkk]

many jokes start with

a jew, a german and a .... french...

yes, we had one, a french that is, not dead, but clubbed by that tuk tuk driver...

welcome to LOS(t something?)

[robertson468]

My Thai Wife's Uncle, who claims to be a builder, built our house. Three months after it was finished, she was having a shower and was rooted to the spot, unable to let go of the shower handle due to being electrocuted. I had to act quickly and despite the danger, whacked the shower out of her hand and pulled her out almost simultaneously. Poor Girl, she was quite shakey for a while and must admit was shaken out of my normal "Thai torpor", all thanks to a failure to earth the electrics. On a serious note it could have been another statistic (or two) to add to the "electrocuted due to electrical fault".

What a sad waste of a young life, which could have so easily been avoided.

[robanywhere]

... remember to use rubber flip-flops when taking a shower in a dodgy bungalow, it might give some protection...

and don't forget that outlets with a third ground pinhole may not really be connected to ground wiring....

[tingtongfarang]

I begin to get accustomed to these shocks from various appliances and somehow learn to live with them, Connecting anything by usb to the pc , digital camera, external HDD and the fridge door handle can be avoided by using my tshirt depending how damp the hands are even then i still get shocks but the washing machine i just pull the plug out before putting my hands in there ...i got a real bang before i learned that one, As for a water heater No Way!

I wonder how the thais get along with all this...do they just think its normal?

[TheBrit]

Many people have died in Patong over the last few years. The owners of the hotels never get prosecuted because the Police put down in the report accidental death.....

Pay the Police and you get immunity to prosecutions like this.

A friend of mine, lost his grandson. He and his wife were looking after the grandson who was near the swimming pool, and their was a fault with the lights around the pool and killed him. so very sad and tragic.

If you dont know what you are doing, don't touch anything....

Some tips for people are worried about Electric Safety in their homes :-

See if their is an Earth stake around the house somewhere. Quite easy to spot, a yellow/green wire (it should be but in Thailand they use all sorts of wires) going down the side of the building and into the ground.

3 pin sockets, TURN OFF POWER - you can pull the front off, and see if their are 3 different wires in the back of the socket. Live, Neutral and Earth. They should be clearly marked in the back of the actual socket itself.

DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE -

TURN OFF POWER - CAUTION - Open the fuse box, normally just 2 flat bladed screws. Their should be 2 main wires coming in from the outside into the MAIN SWITCH (Live and Neutral) There should also be another wire (normally at the top) of the box where the Earths are. DO NOT POKE THINGS, just look with eyes, no sticking objects in there at all.

Edited December 30, 2009 by TheBrit

[gentman]

Its scary to even go near water heater for shower or kettle not knowing that it has a safety standard and wiring are being properly grounded and properly insulated again water sip in. A qualified and trustworty electrician will be able to assure you peace of mind for your home. But what about public places like a hotel bathroom? hmmmm..

[Comehome]

Oh no, not again! I don't know what to say!

If this is a bad joke, it isn't funny!

Rest in peace, and condolances to the familly and friends!

/comehome

[Erich]

Happy we have central heating.

And we have solar waterheating

[kuma]

Indeed a senseless waste of a young mans life

2 Q's for those in the know

1. I have lived at my current Bkk location for 4+ years, never had any issues with shocks from any appliance in the room - bldg is about 6 years old - would you think given that that the place is actually grounded?

2. A few posts here mentioned putting a rubber mat or wearing rubber soled flops in the shower, will this actually help if you did run into this problem?

Thx

K

[oz93666]

aren't earth wires old technology and unnecessary with circuit breakers which are in most houses, these detect if any current is flowing via an earth rout and trip the 'fuse' before its enough to trouble you ,you just feel a little tingle then the power goes off, you just need one earth at 'fuse' box.....

[bdenner]

The "know it all Thai" next door having killed a 3 month old grandchild by letting her place her tiny fingers into a power adapter with big burnt out round holes in it placed a similar HWS into his home --- I told him in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS to Earth it as per instructions but his reply of 6 years ago stills remains planted in my head --- Stupid Farang <deleted> do you know!!! --- Well it happened again but fortunately the woman survived --- The Effin HWS is still not Earthed ---- IDIOTS!!!!

[atyclb]

As an Electrician, it does amaze me why Thai buildings (including ones farang have built for them)

are always missing the Earth, as well as being wired up completely wrong.

The very sad thing is, that there are laws that the Thai's are meant to abide by and sign a certificate saying the electrical installation is safe. Obviously no one checks or actually cares.

I would also say, I was checking out the wiring in the new Shell Petrol Station in Phuket, and being Shell, i would have thought their would be standards... Alas I was wrong. Very poorly wired with 3 phase 25mm cables coming in, earthed by a 4mm cable... = death when a problem occurs. But at least there was an Earth.... did it work... dunno... maybe it just looked good.

TB

I am definitely not an electrician but the very serious lack of "grounded" or earth as you say, wiring is fxxxxng amazing almost everywhere. Extension cords with 3 prong sockets and a 2 TWO prong plug. I've often wondered about the many tankless shower heaters and if i was mingling with death in the shower.

I'd say it is little other than luck more people are not injured by these heaters.

Anyway, the bottom line is a simply profound reality; that's the way things are here and it's unlikely much will change.

[wlcart]

Obviously a total tragedy. RIP.

I read a lot of responses include the words "safe country". I just had electrical work done on my house back in the US, and the electrical inspector drove me crazy! Nick-picked me to death with demands the electrician told me were not necessary, doubling my bill.

In Thailand it is buyer-beware, but shouldn't that be the case in everything in life no matter where you are?

So from now on, I aint usin one of those showers again!

[atyclb]

aren't earth wires old technology and unnecessary with circuit breakers which are in most houses, these detect if any current is flowing via an earth rout and trip the 'fuse' before its enough to trouble you ,you just feel a little tingle then the power goes off, you just need one earth at 'fuse' box.....

GFI, ground fault interrupt is something I've never seen but maybe it does exist somewhere.

[dude007]

As an Electrician, it does amaze me why Thai buildings (including ones farang have built for them)

are always missing the Earth, as well as being wired up completely wrong.

The very sad thing is, that there are laws that the Thai's are meant to abide by and sign a certificate saying the electrical installation is safe. Obviously no one checks or actually cares.

I would also say, I was checking out the wiring in the new Shell Petrol Station in Phuket, and being Shell, i would have thought their would be standards... Alas I was wrong. Very poorly wired with 3 phase 25mm cables coming in, earthed by a 4mm cable... = death when a problem occurs. But at least there was an Earth.... did it work... dunno... maybe it just looked good.

TB

not always. you are welcome to check my house

This guy has it fully right: earthing and circuit breakers... and the problems are solved.

But that means 200 to 250 HB more and that's way too much for Thai investors who are only aiming the benefits... be it only 250 THB!!!

Authorities don't care. They are shortcuited and out through tea-money and briberies... We are used to that!

[CBDK]

Sorry to hear from that accident - very much indeed.

I don't get it - why all does want a water heater? I have a solar heater on my roof - costed me 50k baht including installation and I got hot water in all taps except for the garden for absolutely free. It even safe me electricity now that the washing machine and dish washer don't have to heat up the water - it now wash for 20 minutes less. Yes, I installed it in our new house so we prepared all the pipes but to add this to just kitchen and shower on an old installation is easy done especially with all those exposed pipes here in Thailand.

No electric shock, no electric bill for water heating - the only worries is that the water can get very hot, but a thermostat can fix that issue easy.

I see these heaters all over China as well in condominiums.

[Longtooth]

Gas water heaters are readily available up here in the north for about 2000 baht. They work GREAT and are cheap to run. 1 1/2 volt flashlight battery ignites with the touch of a button. The picture shown DOES have a ground fault interrupter on the chassis, but as someone pointed out, it probably has no ground wire attached to it. If visiting somewhere and you are in doubt, push the test button there and see if it kicks off. If it does, it is OK. Reset by pushing back up the button that popped down on the underside of the unit directly under where you pushed the "test" button. (not the same button) If you're getting shocked by refrigerators, computers, microwaves, etc., screw a ground wire to the major metal case in the back and run the wire through a window or drill a small hole in the wall and run it down to a 4' long x 1/2" diameter copper clad ground rod with correct attachment clamp, driven all the way into the ground except for a few inches above ground to receive the clamp and wire. No more shocks. If it then kicks your breaker or blows your fuse, you have a fault and need to take that unit in for repair. I would not be writing this or anything else (as I would be DEAD from electrocution!) if I had not installed a 30 milliamp ground fault interrupter as the MAIN on my electrical panel. I tested it by accident through my chin to my right forearm. Kicked off the whole house, of course. The overcurrent trip rating (like 63 Amps, 42 Amps, etc.) is irrelevant to the 30 milliamp unbalanced trip current that may save your life. It has a test button and advises to test monthly. Happy trails. PS I think they might also call GFI's "residual current protectors" or somesuch, here. You can get "Square D", "Seimens", and other name brands to match your panel. Keep hunting for it. It's out there.

[trogers]

All my condo units have an ELCB installed at the main breaker box. I test it's effectivenss by setting it to 6 mA and then push the 2-pin socket of a table fan (turned on) into any socket and make sure the ELCB trips and cuts off the main power supply. I then set the ELCB to trip at 20 mA for normal use.

[cosmont]

The security standards that we know in Farangland are rarely apply in the Thai construction, except in expensive projects.

When I had an electrician working in my house, I always checked the way he worked to make sure he know the job... and mainly wanted to avoid risk of fire by electric problem...

I installed fire detectors as well, expensive cost but nothing regarding the risk of fire

Put a water heater in a shower should be forbidden in this country, I installed 3 in my house and they are all aways from the bath and hide.

Another point I noticed is that many Thai houses are not insure ! and I guess many guesthouses should be in the same situation...

This is Thailand...

[MaiChai]

Its scary to even go near water heater for shower or kettle not knowing that it has a safety standard and wiring are being properly grounded and properly insulated again water sip in. A qualified and trustworty electrician will be able to assure you peace of mind for your home. But what about public places like a hotel bathroom? hmmmm..

Luckily most electrical appliances like kettles and toasters are now made from that heat proof plastic. Thus when in LOS don't buy metal appliances; the cheap plastic ones are better as they isolate you.

Not using an electrical shower is probably the best advice; you shouldn't need hot showers unless you spend your life in an aircon coccoon.

Making your own earth is quite easy. A galvinised steel stake in the ground and running an earth lead from the shower to this should be adequate to trip the earth leakage breaker. You can use a jubilee pipe clip for the connection and I coat the connection with grease to stop corrosion getting in and check it from time to time.

Sorry about the DIY advice, but in LOS there are very few standards and hopefully some farang advice will save lives. Lack of education, plus most male folk don't make it to high school, and very few beyond that.

[atyclb]

I wonder how the thais get along with all this...do they just think its normal?

Electrical stimulus provides for transient lucid moments free from the zombie-like state.

[moetownblues]

I wonder how the thais get along with all this...do they just think its normal?

Electrical stimulus provides for transient lucid moments free from the zombie-like state.

I would like to know the figures of thais dying in the same way it must be huge..

Edited December 30, 2009 by moetownblues

[Lancelot]

Off topic but at least no on has quipped "If you don't like it you can leave..."

Back on topic, you do have to be extra careful about your personal safety here in Thailand and most other emerging nations. Flip flops in the shower -and every where in the house-is a good idea when contacting any electrical device or appliance.

I remember being barefoot while heating coffee water with a small immersion heater and accidentaly touching a metal part. Didn't kill me but I thought it did.

My sympathy to the family