New Work Permit Regulations Coming

[Me&MrsJones]

This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.

In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)

In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)

So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)

The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.

As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.

It is abvioud that the thais are changing and are opening their eyes too. Be prepared for big changes. even the ladies are changing, more demanding, more with their nose up. no matter how unwelcome we are becoming here in thailand, we will always keep on coming and we know why , how about telling the truth ? why we come here ? cos of the power of the pussxx..which attracts us all.. it is true that after a while living here , you get to the point where calm down is a must, but the new comers will always see thailand from that point of view ...

the money that farangs are putting in every year, will only increase the power of this country, to learn more and to be by themselves without the need of farangs , it is clear what will happes in a few years.. there will be only torists visa, and very very few controlled working permits and not many retirement visas.

You make some very good points here concerning the economic effects.

But you may want to consider that "doing the same job" and "doing the same job, but to a much higher standard" are not the same animals. My mate used to work at a top university in Thailand and he was saying that the staff in his office all taught English. They earned about 18,000 baht per month and were always moaning about why farangs are earning 3 times more. One day i was invited to a staff member's birthday party and i was appauled that the Thai teachers were allowed anywhere near a classroom to teach English - their level of English was pitiful. My mate said something along the lines of "and this is why they get paid a lot less than us".

This is what i mean by "doing the same job" and "doing the same job, but to a much higher standard". This is why most students at his University demanded to be taught by Native English Speakers. I don't mean to have a pop at the Thai locals who teach English here in Thailand but, from what i've seen, you all need to step up to plate and improve if you want to make more money. Cream rises to the top.

I'm sure if the Thais went to the UK and taught Thai they would be far more in demand than the British natives would be. Same thing innit! Plus they'd have human rights, minimum wage protection and anti-discrimination laws to serve.

[Crushdepth]

Why would they open up parasitic occupations like futures and derivatives trading and pawn shops? They'd be far better off opening up industries that generate wealth rather than redistribute it. Weird.

[thaimate]

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

What rubbish you talk,who says you cant retire at 50 ,59 or 75 if you want ,i have been married to a thai for 16 years have a 15 year old son ,we have lived and worked in Britain and i semi retired at 55 at 60 i retired completely and came to Thailand with my familly . If you are rich enough retire when you like ,just because you cant why shouldnt we? lifes to short to waste it working if you dont have to.

By the way my sister in law and her husband (both Thai live and work in the UK without any problems.)

[CrossBones]

This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.

In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)

In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)

So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)

The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.

How true ! I was on the farm of my girlfriend a few times last year and over New Year. She spoke of the land price around her farm going up soaringly high. The reason , as she pointed out, was that some farang who have girlfriends or spouses in this region had given them enough money to buy up all farming land from those willing to sell. They have almost TRIPLED the price per Rai in the recent 3 years by doing so !

This makes it even harder for farm helps or existing farmers to add up to their property or lease it. Also makes it far more impossible for anyone to save up enough money to buy his family a garden big enough to feed them. Subsequently, the Farang support of their GF's is increasing the hatred and helplessness they feel for us !

It also makes the country worth more.. higher land prices, more value of the country, more expensive food prices, employers have to pay their workers more, the overall worth of the baht goes up, countries GDP measured in Dollars.. increases. Employers can always find a way to give their employees enough to eat

Studied A level economics many years ago LOL.. just something that stands out. Maybe i am missing the point

Edited January 6, 2010 by CrossBones

[SM7WGP]

I have said it before and I say it again, Who in the right mind would want to work in this country.

If you dont have funds to live here , go back home and work and come back when you have the money.

[johnswift1956]

Does anyone know what the thais are implementing on the visa changes? Whats changes are proposed? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here.

[SM7WGP]

? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here. Unquote

Who cares what they do with work permit, retire and you dont have to work.

[benw10]

Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:

-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)

-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)

-Now Work Permits

That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.

So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.

unskilled/illegal workers/lower class/ leaching? what offensive statements

[stolidfeline]

Many different points of view here, which is nice.

The idea of restricting certain occupations because the Thais could do them seems like a good one. But in practice, there simply aren't enough educated Thais who can do many, even simple, jobs properly. For example, almost all my Thai friends have asked me to come to fix their internet, usually TOT, because they have had the TOT engineers living there for weeks poking buttons but can't get anything to work. There is no understanding. Air conditioner engineers can't get them working properly and leave half the house destroyed when they've finished. Builders make cowsheds, not houses. Mechanics can't read English, or can't read, and just smash out the dashboard of your brand new Mercedes with a hammer, and stick it back in with Mastic. Machinery and cars are assembled with no grease. Electrical installations are lethal. The list goes on and on. Most Thais simply do not know how to do a good job. Far from leeching off the country, foreigners can contribute so much to keep things running.

Having foreigners in Thailand to train them ABSOLUTELY FREE OF CHARGE could be the most wonderful opportunity for this country. It is clear that the educational system will take a generation or two to get any better, because the teachers too, don't know anything.

This is based on the frustration felt not only by us foreigners, but also my Thai friends, when they are unable to get a job done.

Regarding Tesco Lotus, Carrefours etc. - does anyone remember what it was like before they arrived here? If you wanted to make a simple meal, you would traipse around several mom and pop shops to find the ingredients, only to find they all sold the same mama noodles, crisps, and you would come home with nothing to eat. My wife used to get so angry she sulked for days. If you were not lucky enough to have a market nearby, you were stuffed. The supermarkets changed all that. Now even the mom and pop stores buy their supplies from the supermarkets, and are able to stock a bigger range of goods. The other thing that has changed is that these stores offer service! Faulty goods or even goods that you don't like will be exchanged or money refunded. Prior to this, everyone was just told to f*** off. I don't know a single Thai who does not think things changed very much for the better.

Times have changed, and you cannot turn back the clock.

Edited January 6, 2010 by stolidfeline

[benw10]

I have said it before and I say it again, Who in the right mind would want to work in this country.

If you dont have funds to live here , go back home and work and come back when you have the money.

a job here even at the basic required wage by the labour office can offer a standard of living greater than that at home, and in a considerably better climate.

[NanLaew]

just don't undestand the thinking behind making w p more difficult.

Maybe it's not about making the WP more difficult to obtain, maybe it's about making more people that should have one actually get off their <deleted> (and the internet) and go and apply for the WP that they should have obtained in the bloody first place!

[benw10]

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

What a snobbish, ill-researched and thoroughly empty comment!

Oh dear, oh dear! Did you ever consider, "Johnswift1956", that some people retire before the official retirement age because they can afford to? What you are saying is that "visas should be limited to the age of the expat's pension age". What rubbish! So if I have the same Net Worth as a 65 year old, wealthy enough, have earned my stripes, and just so happen to be in my 50's I don't deserve a Retirement Visa? It's a free World, don't you know. Why should I stay in UK if I am near retirement age and can afford to be elsewhere - namely Thailand?

Don't you know that many families depend on their 50-something year old breadwinner in order to sustain a reasonable lifestyle and that having a Retirement Visa makes life far easier for the breadwinner to stay here? What do we do, prohibit them from coming here to take care of their adopted family? Kick them out?

You say - "just because you have nothing to do in your own country"! What bol_lox is that! "Retire" means, if you check your thesaurus (you'd need a dictionary first, to check the meaning of THESAURUS) , that you "stop work", "take leave of work", "withdraw" etc. To be retired means that you are free to do as you wish, and that does not mean you have to stay in your own country of normal residence and domicile.

It means you don't HAVE to do anything at all. Look in the dictionary.

Furthermore, you say "It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever". I think you need to check the correct usage of the words "there, their and they're" for a start. At least most teachers have a command of the English Language. Teacher expats are here because they want to be here and maybe they've been stuck in a humdrum life in the UK for too long in the past, working with people like you. Maybe the teacher community over here decided to broaden their horizons and leave the grey faces, insular mentalities and nonsensical people behind in the UK. Why should they return? They pay taxes here and have their legal right to be here as much as anywhere else.

In addition you say "dare not go home". You think that there are loads of folk here because they remain outside the reach of the UK police? What a joke you are! Heard of Interpol have you? What a shortsighted take on life you have! It's serve you well to get some lessons in life after you've had your lessons on English Language.

I'm by no means done with you yet!

You go on to say "I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method". If reciprocation was the order of the day when considering the implications and effects of allowing an immigrant into any country, there would be no immigration law. Immigration is taken on a case-by-case basis with law used as a metaphorical "line in the sand". A certain former Prime Minister became an exile in the UK and bought a football club and a number of houses in the UK - can a foreigner do that here without circumventing or evading the rules of this land? No! So why are you staying what's good for us should be good for them? It has never been and never will be reciprocal, simply because reciprocal agreements do not always work. A slightly off-topic example, but for the purpose of demonstration, please read on:- If we could all buy land over here in Thailand, the locals would not be able to afford to buy land of their own - basic economics. As much as I dislike the fact that I can't own my own land over here I am fully aware of the reasons. Concerning immigration, maybe Thailand took a look at the UK's porous immigration laws, considered that in about 50 years the native British man will be a minority in his own country and thought "why the hel_l would we want to go down that road"! Reciprocation does not always work - even though in a rose-tinted fanciful way we'd all like it to work!

Sorry....no I’m not.....but your post has to get the award for "worst I’ve ever had the misfortune of reading".

I rest my case!

excellent response, i just had my stomach churned by a similar post using the words lower class leaching etc,

[benw10]

Just got my work permit - no problems at all - 1 week and it was a done deal. If it it is a problem I at least have a year of clear sailing.

not if you lose your job for any reason, officially you will only have 7 days of free sailing.................

[johnswift1956]

? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here. Unquote

Who cares what they do with work permit, retire and you dont have to work.

As someone who is married to a Thai, I am only interested in what visas I am entited to if we go there to live in maybe 4/5 years.

At the moment we work in the uk and fly to thailand 3/4 times per year for 3/4 weeks holiday. I manage on holiday visas.

I listen to all my wifes family, farmers from Khorat, and they couldnt give a monkeys about whether they have falang in Bangkok or Pattaya. They dont need english..... All of the village speak Thai fluent!

None of the falang around work, they all have their own income and just sit and watch the world go by letting the Thais get on with it.

They existed better in the village 50 years ago before the falang moved in. Probabily they would be better off back to them days. Kids were all at home, families stayed together, no mobiles and a party every week for Budda, not forgetting the cheap vodka with fanta....

All the students that wanted english as a foreign language travel and studied in the UK or the USA. Didnt need any many english speaking tutors. Maybe they are thinking that the falang are creating the demand for teachers of english. If that was the case, they wouldnt need to give work visas for teachers and save some real money.

[benw10]

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

Johnswift - Why should people not have the option to retire to another country at 59 or even 49. Surely if you have been a big shot banker, engineer, doctor etc and have worked your pretty socks off and accumulated a nice pot of dosh, why shouldn't you have the choice to retire at an age of your choosing, to a country of your choice if they are willing to accept you? Thailand already stipulates you must have x amount in the bank to qualify.

As for the teaching suggestion, utter rubbish, how would this effect school, If contracts were limited to terms or academic years, how would schools retain teachers?? The summer holiday for Thai schools is three months long, how would the teachers support themselves?? Do you think its fair to expect people to be unpaid for 25% of the year and still return?? Or do you think they should be paid to go home?? Also many schools need there teachers to be in Thailand during the summer holidays for extra classes for new students.

Personally I think that this is one of those typical government games to try to satisfy all parties. On one hand they have 'relaxed' businesses (Annex 1 and 2 ??) which foreigners can work in, but on the other hand are presenting more stringent regs to allow foreigners to work in them. Probably to prevent and influx of foreign bankers etc, so that the thais get the lions share of the jobs in the new businesses which open.

Surely showing just X baht, 800,000bt is not realisitic. As you say people with a big pot should be able to show a realistic income of 800,000bt from unearned income/pensions, etc or show funds that can generate this amount per year. Anybody will a little money can show 800,000bt. You need 16 million baht to generate this every year at 5% interest. Perhaps retirement visas should be brought up to line with other countries. I just wonder what Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, US and UK require. I bet it is not as low as $20,000. I would have thought nearer $1,000,000 (32,000,000bt).

As I have already have a Cert Ed and taught IT/computing at a college of further education in the UK, I just wonder about all the foreign teachers in thailand covering english as a full time teachers. With a lower teaching certificate they would in the UK be having to work towards something higher for the first two years They would also need a Degree or Diploma in the subject(s) they are teaching. They would have been cross-checked with the Child Protection Reg and the Criminal Reg. I would think that 90% of the foreign (falang) teachers in Thailand would not get a job in their own country even if similar positions were available. I do not make this statement lightly as I have met quite a few in the years I have been in and out of Thailand. A six week course in Teaching English as a Foreign Language just does not cover anything. So really, Thailand is getting the poor end of the stick! This must be bad overall for Thailands education system and I can really understand them being very frustrated with it and the level of English being taught.

Well thats my feeling on the matter.

Of course, if you are trying to talk your way into a country then its all wrong. The only thing that matters then is how you get your visa and work permit to stay there.

and once all that is done barely any schools in thailand would be able to afford you, they pay unqualified foreigners double the thai teachers wage, or more actually, but considerably less than the salary required to qualify for a work permit. would a fully qualified english teacher contract to a thai school for 32000 baht a month, when an international pays 60-120000?

i've worked in thai schools and yes met one or two seedy individuals especially amongst the thai male teachers, and some thoroughly bitter. handy with wooden ruler thai female staff, but most if not all will teach english better than the thai teacher at the same school who are responsible for teaching grammar . it's not perfect but neither are the schools!

[benw10]

? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here. Unquote

Who cares what they do with work permit, retire and you dont have to work.

As someone who is married to a Thai, I am only interested in what visas I am entited to if we go there to live in maybe 4/5 years.

At the moment we work in the uk and fly to thailand 3/4 times per year for 3/4 weeks holiday. I manage on holiday visas.

I listen to all my wifes family, farmers from Khorat, and they couldnt give a monkeys about whether they have falang in Bangkok or Pattaya. They dont need english..... All of the village speak Thai fluent!

None of the falang around work, they all have their own income and just sit and watch the world go by letting the Thais get on with it.

They existed better in the village 50 years ago before the falang moved in. Probabily they would be better off back to them days. Kids were all at home, families stayed together, no mobiles and a party every week for Budda, not forgetting the cheap vodka with fanta....

All the students that wanted english as a foreign language travel and studied in the UK or the USA. Didnt need any many english speaking tutors. Maybe they are thinking that the falang are creating the demand for teachers of english. If that was the case, they wouldnt need to give work visas for teachers and save some real money.

they rarely or never give work permits to teachers at these schools

[Foggy Bottom]

This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.

In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)

In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)

So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay.

I agree - but the Thai masses need educated regarding how much farangs have had to pay to acquire their education and qualifications in their own country, as well as to how much of a charity donation it is for farangs to work for the salaries available in Thailand (and in this I mean outside of Bangkok - Bangkok is not typical of the rest of the country).

Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)

I disagree - farangs do not have the access to credit and the same interest on savings that Thais have from Thai banks. Nor do they have the "local connections" generally, to hear about the "real steals" of land being fire-saled for quick cash due to a distress position of the vendor. Add to that, that Thai vendors will automatically inflate the asking price at the fiorst sniff of a farang in the buying chain, plus that Thai "agents" will also inflate it to get their cut, and what you have is a greed-driven two-tiered land pricing situation - the vendor will sell to a Thai at the correct price if no farangs are in the chain, but will "go for gold" when there is an opportunity.

The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.

I disagree - the reason Thai farmers are poor is all due to farm land area - look at Farm Chokchai if you need an example of size leading to wealth - In Thailand the average farm size is less than 5 acres. In most of the UK & Europe, 5 acres is a small cropping field and an average pasture, with each farm have several of those plus several larger fields. In the US, 5 acres is probably the farmhouse garden or farm yard. This small farm size is the root of farmer poverty in Thailand (and in Vietnam, the average farm size in the north is just one acre - the southern Vietnamese have larger farms and are wealthier by comparison to their northern brothers). If Thais would stop splitting their farms between their children and begin consolidation, they would all benefit.

As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.

I agree on the uneducated cause of dissent, but it really does come back to education and the need for the government to do what's best for the people, not the elite. However I disagree on the inflationary effect - supply and demand comes into play.

Figures I saw a few years ago showed 1.2 million foreigners classed as resident in Thailand, of which only 500,000 were not SE Asian. Of those 500,000, half were East Asian, and the rest were farang, African, and South Asian. Assuming that even 75% of the 500,000 (a generous allocation) have the means to buy land and property, there is a limited market for inflated land prices, and in the resale market a natural bias will occur to prefer buying from another foreigner, rather than from a Thai - this will affect a portion of resale.

Also, property location has to be factored in, it's not rocket science that the majority of purchases will be within cities (Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Samui, Pattaya etc) rather than rural or coastal non-urban. This is due to work locations, or access to amenities (including schools), and so on. Some people may prefer condos and apartments to detached properties and so on.

Ultimately this may whittle down the numbers to (again generously) around 100,000 foreigners wanting rural land to build a home.

Far more likely is that Thai spouses will attempt to coerce the foreigner into buying land within his/her home village "to help out a friend / relative" with money problems. This is where legislation can take effective preventative measures - e.g. like Malaysia, restricting foreign ownership to a maximum of two plots at any one time, with a minimum ownership period per plot to prevent covert development and speculation. The maximum size per plot could also be controlled by legislation. Legislation could even set zones for ownership (similar to industrial estates eligible for BOI promotion) or ratios of ownership in rural tambons - e.g. one foreign owned plot per 1000 Thai households - this would prevent enclave-syndrome and land price escalation.

Anything outside of such ideas as those above, would simply be a perpetuation of the current system of using a Thai to "buy" and "own" the land in order to circumvent the rules. It would be far better for the government, and less investigatively-burdensome if the government simply created a rule set for foreigners to achieve openly, what they have been doing clandestinely nation-wide for decades.

Foggy

[tomahawk]

I feel something must be wrong with me but I cannot relate to all these problems. Thai people treat me fine, probably better than my countrymen at home. I have never once felt like the "nigger of Thailand." I have retirement pension and retired when I was 53. I live at a much higher standard here than I would back home, where I would have to work in order to survive decently. I do not feel there is any danger of being kicked out of the country and I am not afraid to go out at night. If I cannot get a work permit, this is fine because if I wanted to work I would not have retired. And as far as farangs being treated badly, I constantly see farangs who are too cheap to leave a tip yet complain the Thais are not kissing their a_ _, and others that smell so bad that even in open air taxi it smells like they died 2 weeks ago. If some younger, better looking guy stole some potential wife or girlfriend from me, as one guy said, then this is just reality. I was young once. Now I'm not so it is time to grow up. If you flash a roll of money there is no problem getting some young girl to go with you. This does not mean that the same young girl wouldn't rather be off with the young guy, except maybe he doesn't have any money. This is Thailand but I think it is also fantasy world.

[NanLaew]

Slightly OT, on that point, I was thinking of registering a Thai company as a 'vehicle' for some of my software work. In light of this news, should I move hastily to set up that company now? And if I do that, am I currently allowed to have preferential voting rights?

Simon

My understanding is that you should hurry up and do it now to ensure that you are 100% protected and operating legally.

Then watch in shock and horror when a few months later, they change the rules and you have your peferential voting rights legally rescinded by some whimsical change in the law.

[NanLaew]

"we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country"

Agree. IMO, over the last couple of years the powers that be in Thailand would be quite happy if farangs just flew over Thailand and threw their wallets out the window of the plane and kept on going. What is even worse is that this kind of thinking is filtering down to the masses. Please note that this is a generalization and is not meant to include every Thai person or every Thai person in a position of authority.

It never fails to amaze me that I recall hearing exactly the same things said over beer and somtam about 20 years ago. I am sorry but that concept was hatched a long time before the new, it's-getting-harder-to-work-here-illegally crowd discovered the internet.

plus ça change

[benw10]

? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here. Unquote

Who cares what they do with work permit, retire and you dont have to work.

As someone who is married to a Thai, I am only interested in what visas I am entited to if we go there to live in maybe 4/5 years.

At the moment we work in the uk and fly to thailand 3/4 times per year for 3/4 weeks holiday. I manage on holiday visas.

I listen to all my wifes family, farmers from Khorat, and they couldnt give a monkeys about whether they have falang in Bangkok or Pattaya. They dont need english..... All of the village speak Thai fluent!

None of the falang around work, they all have their own income and just sit and watch the world go by letting the Thais get on with it.

They existed better in the village 50 years ago before the falang moved in. Probabily they would be better off back to them days. Kids were all at home, families stayed together, no mobiles and a party every week for Budda, not forgetting the cheap vodka with fanta....

All the students that wanted english as a foreign language travel and studied in the UK or the USA. Didnt need any many english speaking tutors. Maybe they are thinking that the falang are creating the demand for teachers of english. If that was the case, they wouldnt need to give work visas for teachers and save some real money.

"all the students" ? wow who paid?

[MrJohnson]

I feel something must be wrong with me but I cannot relate to all these problems. Thai people treat me fine, probably better than my countrymen at home. I have never once felt like the "nigger of Thailand." I have retirement pension and retired when I was 53. I live at a much higher standard here than I would back home, where I would have to work in order to survive decently. I do not feel there is any danger of being kicked out of the country and I am not afraid to go out at night. If I cannot get a work permit, this is fine because if I wanted to work I would not have retired. And as far as farangs being treated badly, I constantly see farangs who are too cheap to leave a tip yet complain the Thais are not kissing their a_ _, and others that smell so bad that even in open air taxi it smells like they died 2 weeks ago. If some younger, better looking guy stole some potential wife or girlfriend from me, as one guy said, then this is just reality. I was young once. Now I'm not so it is time to grow up. If you flash a roll of money there is no problem getting some young girl to go with you. This does not mean that the same young girl wouldn't rather be off with the young guy, except maybe he doesn't have any money. This is Thailand but I think it is also fantasy world.

Gee Tom (a hawk) - we must live in the same street with all the polite Thai people who are just getting on with their lives while we are getting on with ours. I, like you, am not afraid to go out at night although I don't go out very often. I also don't lay awake at night worrying about the immigration police coming to deport me.

Hmm. Something must be wrong. Oops, gotta go put my flack jacket on before I get flamed - Oh, and BTW I haven't gone feral, I don't wear white string around my wrist or drink Thai whisky - seeya!

[keestha]

Be prepared for a bumpy ride in regards to work permits, both new applications and renewals. I guess we will have more details in the next few days or weeks, but please read the article above and make your own conclusions.

Sure this could effect companies that have foreign shareholders, I am quoting the Nation:

"The proposed removal of some businesses from Annex III has prompted a concurrent proposal to impose stringent controls on the voting rights of foreign shareholder, which must not be higher than 50 per cent.

The amended regulations would only apply to new foreign-owned companies."

But George, I don't see work permit applications/renewals mentioned in any way, could you clarify please?

Edited January 6, 2010 by keestha

[Me&MrsJones]

Just got my work permit - no problems at all - 1 week and it was a done deal. If it it is a problem I at least have a year of clear sailing.

not if you lose your job for any reason, officially you will only have 7 days of free sailing.................

Spot on! Absolutely spot on! My neighbour just got fired from his job. He has a family here, a car, a bank account, has paif his taxes for the last 7 years and NEVER been on an "overstay". He speaks fluent (or as fluent as you can possibly get) Thai and completely subscribes to the Thai way of life when it comes to Buddhism. So, what happened? He was basically told to get out of the country within 7 days.

Sounds like a tale of the dark ages, right?

But you know i am not joking! This is serious stuff!

Now you tell me, where is the fairness, where is the security, where is the humanity in being booted out after contributing for so long? It sucks and it is nothing short of IN YOUR FACE racism. Ok, he went over the border and came back in again for a month - and went to the border again and came back for another month......and then got another job with a work permit. But the whole "get lost Johnny foreigner, we've had your revenue" attitude is simoly disgusting.

If the Gov't are going to introduce new Work Permit regulations they'd better chuck a bit of corn down too and make this 7 days rule get lost too.

[Latindancer]

Many different points of view here, which is nice.

The idea of restricting certain occupations because the Thais could do them seems like a good one. But in practice, there simply aren't enough educated Thais who can do many, even simple, jobs properly. For example, almost all my Thai friends have asked me to come to fix their internet, usually TOT, because they have had the TOT engineers living there for weeks poking buttons but can't get anything to work. There is no understanding. Air conditioner engineers can't get them working properly and leave half the house destroyed when they've finished. Builders make cowsheds, not houses. Mechanics can't read English, or can't read, and just smash out the dashboard of your brand new Mercedes with a hammer, and stick it back in with Mastic. Machinery and cars are assembled with no grease. Electrical installations are lethal. The list goes on and on. Most Thais simply do not know how to do a good job. Far from leeching off the country, foreigners can contribute so much to keep things running.

This sounds like a bit of a negative post, but strangely enough, my electric shower heater leaks water internally, and it seems that the circuit breaker is wired in to the neutral side of the circuit instead of the active side. So I could be electrocuted any day, if I continue to use it ( I'm not ). And somehow when I turn off the power to the entire apartment, there is still power going to the active wire going into the heater. I've told management 3 times, but no action. I wonder how the parents of the 17 year old boy feel......the one who as electrocuted in Phuket last week by a shower heater ?

It's time for Thai authorities to face up to reality, if it is possible for them to do so without losing face.

[benw10]

Just got my work permit - no problems at all - 1 week and it was a done deal. If it it is a problem I at least have a year of clear sailing.

not if you lose your job for any reason, officially you will only have 7 days of free sailing.................

Spot on! Absolutely spot on! My neighbour just got fired from his job. He has a family here, a car, a bank account, has paif his taxes for the last 7 years and NEVER been on an "overstay". He speaks fluent (or as fluent as you can possibly get) Thai and completely subscribes to the Thai way of life when it comes to Buddhism. So, what happened? He was basically told to get out of the country within 7 days.

Sounds like a tale of the dark ages, right?

But you know i am not joking! This is serious stuff!

Now you tell me, where is the fairness, where is the security, where is the humanity in being booted out after contributing for so long? It sucks and it is nothing short of IN YOUR FACE racism. Ok, he went over the border and came back in again for a month - and went to the border again and came back for another month......and then got another job with a work permit. But the whole "get lost Johnny foreigner, we've had your revenue" attitude is simoly disgusting.

If the Gov't are going to introduce new Work Permit regulations they'd better chuck a bit of corn down too and make this 7 days rule get lost too.

i lost my job simply because the company went bankrup, and as everybody was just left without work, there was no one to report the farangs loss of work to the labour office, we just threw our work permits on the bonfire, and continued to use our visas, i left and re-entered(with clenched buttocks) the country 3 times and never an eye brow raised.

[DickFarang]

cheers to all expats & mongerer (?) is that correct English ?

IMHO a monger (not: a mongerer) is some kind of a merchant.

The word is often used figuratively: a rumour-monger = a person who spreads rumours.

[wanderluster]

Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:

-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)

-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)

-Now Work Permits

That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.

WHAT investment visa???? I thought that it was cancelled years ago.... can anyone give me an update on this with proper details????

[Hatyaidanny]

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

So let me get this right!

My occupational pension scheme allows me to take benefits from the age of 55

The British Government allows me to take my occupational benefits from the age of 55

I worked for 20 years in senior management in the UK, I am now a senior Manager in a 50% Thai comapny and through this I am comfortable whilst not rich.

I have lived, worked and paid more Thai tax than most for 7 years and as I have a Thai family will continue to do so until I chose not to.

I would just like to ask why I cannot be retired at 55? (Your comment you cannot be retired till 65)

On what grounds do you make such a statement.

Possibly its a statement from someone with only a state pension to look forward too and no chance of early retirement!!

[Pattel]

Thailand getting the grip finally. A good example is TESCO LOTUS, CAREFOUR ...etc. Local markets gets shredded because nobody can compete against a giant like that. Would be nice to see some of'em shredded.

As Tesco, Carrefour etc. are 51% Thai owned I cant see what the problem is.