New Work Permit Regulations Coming

[Me&MrsJones]

? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here. Unquote

Who cares what they do with work permit, retire and you dont have to work.

As someone who is married to a Thai, I am only interested in what visas I am entited to if we go there to live in maybe 4/5 years.

At the moment we work in the uk and fly to thailand 3/4 times per year for 3/4 weeks holiday. I manage on holiday visas.

I listen to all my wifes family, farmers from Khorat, and they couldnt give a monkeys about whether they have falang in Bangkok or Pattaya. They dont need english..... All of the village speak Thai fluent!

None of the falang around work, they all have their own income and just sit and watch the world go by letting the Thais get on with it.

They existed better in the village 50 years ago before the falang moved in. Probabily they would be better off back to them days. Kids were all at home, families stayed together, no mobiles and a party every week for Budda, not forgetting the cheap vodka with fanta....

All the students that wanted english as a foreign language travel and studied in the UK or the USA. Didnt need any many english speaking tutors. Maybe they are thinking that the falang are creating the demand for teachers of english. If that was the case, they wouldnt need to give work visas for teachers and save some real money.

I may well be clutching at rice stalks here. Please don't take this personally, coz I know I would, but you make some bizarre statements, which I have to say are keeping me away from my plantation in Korat. Maybe you could clarify a few of them for us (or just for me). I didn't have time to list them all because, you know; I’m just busy watching the World go by!

You mentioned the lack of need for Thai farmers in Korat to learn English. Of course Thai farmers living in Korat are not interested in speaking English. They don't learn it because they don't need to learn it. Surprise, surprise - they all speak fluent Thai! But other sectors of commerce where English is a must, such as Tourism, are a no-go area unless the international language of business is learned. English!

You say "None of the falang around work; they all have their own income and just sit and watch the world go by letting the Thais get on with it". What's wrong with watching the World go by and letting the Thai get on with it? I don't see your bone of contention here, if there is one.

After that, you commented on social failings by pointing out to us that "Kids were all at home, families stayed together, no mobiles and a party every week for Budda, not forgetting the cheap vodka with fanta.... ". So are you saying that the breakdown of the family structure is the foreigners’ fault? Try telling that to the educated Thai's making a tidy living in the World today because their foreign father put them through a decent school and their foreign teachers taught them English which, with unreasonable hurdles to jump through to get a Work Permit, would never have been possible. Think of all the kids that continue to benefit in Thailand and around the World due to the fact that their foreign dad met their Thai mum one day while working as a teacher in a Thai school....or any other job. If you've got kids you are closer to this than I, so you'd obviously know better than I - wouldn't you?

I have to content your opinion about the following statement: You say "All the students that wanted English as a foreign language travel and studied in the UK or the USA." Not in this lifetime do ALL Korat based students who want to learn English simply go and study in the UK or USA! Absolutely no way on this earth!

Please could you clarify your inane ramblings on the following? As you so brilliantly put it...."Maybe they are thinking that the falang are creating the demand for teachers of English. If that was the case, they wouldn’t need to give work visas for teachers and save some real money."

In my humble opinion, English language is in demand in many countries because the country's economic drivers and in particular to Thailand (let's not pull any punches here: - prostitution and tourism) need it. The whole micro and macro economies (except farming in Korat, of course) are in existence as a result of the multiplier effect generated by the major drivers. What do mean? I mean, a woman gets paid in Pattaya and a family get food on their table in Korat as a direct consequence. Thailand is reliant on being able to communicate with foreigners in a foreign language, namely English, because of necessity. Whether it's a flirtatious and eloquent "I go wit yooo" or hard-nosed "Welcome to the XXXXXXX 5 Star Hotel sir, does one have a reservation"!

It's about necessity. I would not have bothered learning Thai if had no reason to have contact with Thais.

[Lite Beer]

Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:

-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)

-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)

-Now Work Permits

That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.

WHAT investment visa???? I thought that it was cancelled years ago.... can anyone give me an update on this with proper details????

10 Million Baht Investment needed.

[Gambler444]

This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.

In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)

In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.) Not so in the LOS - as many hotel owners have strived for western standrads - from branding to trying to increase their status and gain, however - employing Ex Pats cutting their contracts to save cost...Where oh where is the pracitcal thought behind this... For the most part -the number one topic the owners complain about is either "No Revenue" which they tend to over look the global economic crisis.. or the WP and processing of an Ex Pat is too costly...Many issues are causing the problem here such as the political unstability here and more, they usually dump the Ex Pat Manager for someone who is local for less expense. If you are willing to pay for it, stick by your investment and prosper... Education pays, and a MAJORITY do not have it (if they do , do not use it..)

So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)

The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.

As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.

They need to take care of their own...which many coutries overlook..not just here...

Overall they as many do not have focus of where they want to be... They have focus of where they would LIKE to be and how to get there requires further "outside" suggestions / recommendations.... Hence , education... They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk (unless it is fit for them)... Overall, an over rated situation and why many only vacation here - or visit - when not working "off shore"..... Good on them.... The simplicity of "teaching here" get over it, if you really want to help, teach in your own country - a semi decent salary and benefits + more... Here , huge hassel for those that do.... (Don't be complacent and say you are " Happily Enjoing" your teaching career....

Edited January 6, 2010 by Gambler444

[Lite Beer]

Just got my work permit - no problems at all - 1 week and it was a done deal. If it it is a problem I at least have a year of clear sailing.

not if you lose your job for any reason, officially you will only have 7 days of free sailing.................

Wrong. You have to leave the country on the day you lose your job if your extension of stay is based on Employment.

Or apply for a 7 day extension.

[Lite Beer]

Off Topic nonsense about Prostitutes and Mongers (fish?) Have been deleted.

Please try and stay on topic. Thanks.

[robee]

It simple the local elite don’t like you foreigners at all and I don’t like you either. Hahah 5555555 have fun this rule will change 12 times before you are done reading this worthless post.

Worthless ???

Not to me...

[robee]

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

What utter rubbish, you cannot compare the state pension in the UK to private pension schemes anymore. I have Company pension plus 3 private pension schemes and all are geared to allow me to retire at 50 or 55. The pittance doled out by the government, I discounted that long ago. There are many people with private pnsions that would allow them to retire comfortably in their 40's.

ditto. Don't know how guys can live on govt. Pension. I'll rely on private $ for retirement.

[Lite Beer]

Inflammatory post deleted.

[yabaaaa]

Thailand getting the grip finally. A good example is TESCO LOTUS, CAREFOUR ...etc. Local markets gets shredded because nobody can compete against a giant like that. Would be nice to see some of'em shredded.

Yeah rather than "raise their game" the locals want the old dirty unhygenic carts they sell their stuff off. No Thanks give me Tesco's cleaner standards any day

[benw10]

Just got my work permit - no problems at all - 1 week and it was a done deal. If it it is a problem I at least have a year of clear sailing.

not if you lose your job for any reason, officially you will only have 7 days of free sailing.................

Wrong. You have to leave the country on the day you lose your job if your extension of stay is based on Employment.

Or apply for a 7 day extension.

which for non pedants boils down to the same thing, providing they read the permit of course, or lose their job and make sure it is not reported,this happened to me, they at least can make the most of their visa. when i panicked at the sudden end of my job many people just laughed and said throw it away and get on with life, so i did.

likewise getting my passport swallowed up with cambodian full page visa stickers, again to be mocked for never having peeled them out and reuse the page, like some fellow passengers.........not sure i'm feel secure enough for that one

[finflixmaria]

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

This is a pretty narrow minded view on your behalf. You cannot make statements such as' CANNOT BE RETIRED AT 59' says who? Have you thought of the likes of myself, I am retired and did so at 37, how you ask? By working hard, nothing crooked or illegal just a hard honest days work and taking the odd risk to accumulate my retirement fund. I choose Thailand because I do not like the cold weather as I have suffered from arthritis since being a child. Thailand was a nice cheap and easy place to be, with good people and a warm welcome. We take nothing from their country, and indeed spend our hard earned cash to not only make our lives better, but theirs too. We cannot use their health systems etc for free, and usually pay at least double for everything. Now please give me 1 good and valid reason that I should be asked to leave?????? As for the crooks you refer to that dare not go home, yes every country has them. If they are investing or spending in what was a 3rd world country until the Ferang came, and are not breaking any laws in this country. Then live and let live. Lets face it anyway Thailand rates among one of the countries that runs on corruption among its own and its them that try to involve the ferang in the system by under the table bribes, which I refuse point blank to encourage or be a part of. I would rather it take longer and do it as it should be done. :D

[leiftheswede]

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

If you have the ekonomic possibility to retire when you are 50 then you can do so in your own country so why not have the same oppertunity in thailand? Its good business for thailand - spain and many other countrys when whelty people choose to live there after pension wheter early pension or not.

Edited January 6, 2010 by leiftheswede

[Me&MrsJones]

Thailand getting the grip finally. A good example is TESCO LOTUS, CAREFOUR ...etc. Local markets gets shredded because nobody can compete against a giant like that. Would be nice to see some of'em shredded.

Yeah rather than "raise their game" the locals want the old dirty unhygenic carts they sell their stuff off. No Thanks give me Tesco's cleaner standards any day

I'll raise a glass to that!

People vote with their feet in Thailand - you can see the irony there can't you!

[tomahawk]

Visa regulations are not all based on hatred and racism. Every legitimate country in the world has immigration regulations, and to be honest many, including western countries, are more restrictive than Thaialnd's. I do not think it is a bad thing for Thailand to try to keep terrorists, fugitives and pedophiles from invading the country and using it to hide out from the law. Perhaps I do not understand or agree with some of these regulations, but I am also free to leave if I want. According to farangs I know who have been here a long time, many of the farangs living here now would have been made to get back on the plane in Bangkok 30 years ago. How many English teachers does 1 country need, anyway? I know English teachers here who can barely construct a coherent sentence.

[coppywriter]

This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.

In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)

In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)

So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)

The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.

As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.

I think this is the best piece of writing on this topic. Just put urself in the place of a Thai national and read it again, it makes alot of sense.

[benw10]

just like when the english middle classes moved into the welsh countryside in the 80's

[Roachiebkk]

Let's face it...

01. Still a very tight group of people run the show, like some 0.8X per cent of the populous which own every thing

02. Thailand is now a G20 member and no more 'golden triangle' or 'tiger' - state & desperately tries to westernize; i.e. 'jay-walking' laws

03. There's much concern about Farang mingling into the power circles - protectionism - see Russian & Western housing/building companies

04. Wouldn't you be kind of jealous or 'not amused' to see places and the stuff going on in like Pattaya as a Thai citizen - brothels etc.

05. You can get teachers and other low level 'employees' from countries like the Philippines or Morocco for a 1/3 of what 'white people' get

06. There seems to be a movement to regain control of certain areas & get rid of people which just bump around in 'their' country

07. Everyone in the region sees the ASEAN Union as the emerging force which makes 'western investment' rather unnecessary / avoidable

08. We see enough coverage in the media of Farang's bad behavior, i.e. the Australian Mom stealing sitting matts & swinger cartels

09. Aggression is best focused against 'outsiders' to divert the internal struggles, i.e. yellow vs. red shirts (which is a farce)

10. We can just hope that it will not end in repossession-ism / deportation B$

Please read and think twice if you will; this is not a condemnation but a point of view and many of you I guess have seen similar movements and streams. Honestly I am sick of the newsletter when every second blurp is dealing with 'crackdowns' on this and that. As for myself, I always tried to maintain a respectful and honest approach to the Thai's in general but I also am concerned of the 'status' of the Farang's image in the Kingdom. There is a breaking point in every relationship sometimes; sorry to say, but these messages simply tell: 'Behave, play after our rules or be kicked out / not allowed to come back'. Seriously hoping that our 'image' and 'treatment' will continue on a basis of mutual understanding and R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Thanks for your time

&

stay healthy and happy in this wonderful country!!!

Oh but you did forget to mention besides the farangs that frequent prostitution areas, that most if not ALL the above categories of people bring a lot of much needed money into Thailand. I lived there for 9 years and have a great respect for Thailand and Thais, I've lived expat in many countries and have always put into any country to get something out of it. I could not add up the financial benefit my company and staff brought to Thailand and it's people. Money that now with these laws and the global downturn in tourism has forced us to abandon this wonderful country.

Good luck to all those who stick it out. Regardless of petty new laws you have all contributed to this country.

[zigistar]

For all those who are worried about this upcoming laws just move your ass to Cambodia and set up something there,its easy simple and if you smart enough you will have the oportunity to make real money contrary to Thailand the Cambodians make it easy to set up a business and workpermits.For people who have a family in Thailand and need(like) to working its ofcourse not that simple your wife will not be happy to make that move.

My point is except a few,most people who work here in Thailand are people who wana stay here but dont have the money to do it and pray hope and believe that set up a business with the little money they have will keep them here,maybe one out of hunderd will succeed.I wouldent open a business here even if the goverment give me money for it,Thailand is a great country if you have the money to support yourself without the need to work(few exceptions).

If you have any problem to get your WP just open a tailorshop seems that those get no problem to get a WP...

Good luck workers in Thailand!!!

[posttenebraslux]

Let's face it...

I am very unhappy about this newest development which was, anyway, to be expected for some time already.

Having spent most of my time - since 1970 - as a manager in humanitarian services (UN/UNDP, ICRC) in all ASEAN countries + China, I live now permanently in Thailand since 2000. Expats in Thailand should naturally qualify for participation in the host country's social and commercial development and also actively contribute to the GDP, be it as working, caring for a family (!), spending holidays or enjoying time in retirement including paying millions per year to the local Health Industry.

Short-sighted bureaucracy and clear disrespect to foreigners shall make Thailand loose out quickly to friendlier countries like Vietnam, Indonesia and India thus consolidating the Kingdom's reputation as pure third world country.

I do hope that the leaders in society and government start to think very hard an sharp soonest in order to achieve a healthy and reasonable future for the whole population including the expats.

posttenebraslux

01. Still a very tight group of people run the show, like some 0.8X per cent of the populous which own every thing

02. Thailand is now a G20 member and no more 'golden triangle' or 'tiger' - state & desperately tries to westernize; i.e. 'jay-walking' laws

03. There's much concern about Farang mingling into the power circles - protectionism - see Russian & Western housing/building companies

04. Wouldn't you be kind of jealous or 'not amused' to see places and the stuff going on in like Pattaya as a Thai citizen - brothels etc.

05. You can get teachers and other low level 'employees' from countries like the Philippines or Morocco for a 1/3 of what 'white people' get

06. There seems to be a movement to regain control of certain areas & get rid of people which just bump around in 'their' country

07. Everyone in the region sees the ASEAN Union as the emerging force which makes 'western investment' rather unnecessary / avoidable

08. We see enough coverage in the media of Farang's bad behavior, i.e. the Australian Mom stealing sitting matts & swinger cartels

09. Aggression is best focused against 'outsiders' to divert the internal struggles, i.e. yellow vs. red shirts (which is a farce)

10. We can just hope that it will not end in repossession-ism / deportation B$

Please read and think twice if you will; this is not a condemnation but a point of view and many of you I guess have seen similar movements and streams. Honestly I am sick of the newsletter when every second blurp is dealing with 'crackdowns' on this and that. As for myself, I always tried to maintain a respectful and honest approach to the Thai's in general but I also am concerned of the 'status' of the Farang's image in the Kingdom. There is a breaking point in every relationship sometimes; sorry to say, but these messages simply tell: 'Behave, play after our rules or be kicked out / not allowed to come back'. Seriously hoping that our 'image' and 'treatment' will continue on a basis of mutual understanding and R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Thanks for your time

&

stay healthy and happy in this wonderful country!!!

[benw10]

For all those who are worried about this upcoming laws just move your ass to Cambodia and set up something there,its easy simple and if you smart enough you will have the oportunity to make real money contrary to Thailand the Cambodians make it easy to set up a business and workpermits.For people who have a family in Thailand and need(like) to working its ofcourse not that simple your wife will not be happy to make that move.

My point is except a few,most people who work here in Thailand are people who wana stay here but dont have the money to do it and pray hope and believe that set up a business with the little money they have will keep them here,maybe one out of hunderd will succeed.I wouldent open a business here even if the goverment give me money for it,Thailand is a great country if you have the money to support yourself without the need to work(few exceptions).

If you have any problem to get your WP just open a tailorshop seems that those get no problem to get a WP...

Good luck workers in Thailand!!!

but the local sikh money laundering firms have got this stitched up already

[YouYouYou]

This has caused a stir concerning WP's. For one, the Thai government is rightly entitled to 'revise' their regulations just like any other country does so from time time ....it's updating to the present situation. As some posters have pointed out (although info is vague at mo', let's wait till March when all is clear) there are pros and cons to the revision, thus some 'farangs' may benefit from changes and others not. I personally don't think its an anti-farang campaign as many have pointed out; I think it is just to revise and bring up to date the needs for the country as a whole.

I know this is off topic but I am just replying to what several posters have pointed out already concernig the ED visa. As Asiawatcher and Backsoon (P2.) pointed out that many people obtain an ED visa as a means to stay in Thailand. Yes, I'm sure some of these schools forward this idea that you can stay upto 3 years on ED for a small 'tuition fee' ...thus it could appear somewhat crooked. However, and contrary to one of these posters, some people do obtain a legitimate ED for legitimate purposes (as Luciano1860, P3 pointed out). I myself obtained an ED visa for one year in 2001 to conduct a thesis at Chiang Mai University on organic systems and consumerism, thus it was granted on the basis of research; the UK, where I am from, is reciprocal in granting research/education visas too for Thai people attached to a University. Moreover, Surely some of these 'Thai language' ED visa people really are doing exactly that and learning the language in the country that the language is spoken; that's makes perfect sense and is the best place to learn a 2nd language eh!

So please don't dish everyone with an ED visa ....some are legitimate, and some are a bit iffy. If the government can separate the two then great, and it is their right to remove a farang who is here illlegitimately ...don't you think?

[Stricken]

It's ironic that Cambodia seems to be more pro business.

Yes and Thanksin could have something to do with that like he did for Thailand, so all you Thaksin haters better get your ducks all lined up in staright row, before throwing him to the lions???????????????????

My opinion Thaksin was good for Thailand's bussiness oppertunities, and getting Thailand out of the sluge laden trench it is in now.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Stricken

[benw10]

It's ironic that Cambodia seems to be more pro business.

Yes and Thanksin could have something to do with that like he did for Thailand, so all you Thaksin haters better get your ducks all lined up in staright row, before throwing him to the lions???????????????????

My opinion Thaksin was good for Thailand's bussiness oppertunities, and getting Thailand out of the sluge laden trench it is in now.

many of the changes in business laws that have been pushed thru/ passed during the time since the coup were already in the pipeline introduced by thaksin but completed by subsequent governments as is normal in any country. don't forget it was thaksin who wanted rid of backpackers in favour of the "right kind of traveler', ignoring the fact that most backpackers are from solid middle class families who when settled in good jobs become the 'right kind of traveler' etc etc

Edited January 6, 2010 by benw10

[mrdome]

Surely showing just X baht, 800,000bt is not realisitic. As you say people with a big pot should be able to show a realistic income of 800,000bt from unearned income/pensions, etc or show funds that can generate this amount per year. Anybody will a little money can show 800,000bt. You need 16 million baht to generate this every year at 5% interest. Perhaps retirement visas should be brought up to line with other countries. I just wonder what Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, US and UK require. I bet it is not as low as $20,000. I would have thought nearer $1,000,000 (32,000,000bt).

For Malaysia it's 150K Ringgit under their MM2H program for the 50+. A million bucks? Give me a break, who's got that kind of dosh even after decades of working. And what would you need 800K baht in Thailand per year for? That's not realistic either for the majority of people. Nice to have, sure but not needed.

[benw10]

Surely showing just X baht, 800,000bt is not realisitic. As you say people with a big pot should be able to show a realistic income of 800,000bt from unearned income/pensions, etc or show funds that can generate this amount per year. Anybody will a little money can show 800,000bt. You need 16 million baht to generate this every year at 5% interest. Perhaps retirement visas should be brought up to line with other countries. I just wonder what Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, US and UK require. I bet it is not as low as $20,000. I would have thought nearer $1,000,000 (32,000,000bt).

For Malaysia it's 150K Ringgit under their MM2H program for the 50+. A million bucks? Give me a break, who's got that kind of dosh even after decades of working. And what would you need 800K baht in Thailand per year for? That's not realistic either for the majority of people. Nice to have, sure but not needed.

150k myr about 45000 us bucks not a million assuming you meant us bucks of course

[thaiphoon]

Just got my work permit - no problems at all - 1 week and it was a done deal. If it it is a problem I at least have a year of clear sailing.

not if you lose your job for any reason, officially you will only have 7 days of free sailing.................

That is not necessarily true. Only if on extension of stay based on employment would you have to leave the country on last day of working, or obtain 7 day extension from immigration. If on extension of stay based on marriage you can remain here if lose job. Also if on visa entry can remain here for the duration of permission to stay.

[thaiphoon]

Several off topic posts have been deleted.

Please stay on topic which is about legal work and changes that may be coming.

[benw10]

Surely showing just X baht, 800,000bt is not realisitic. As you say people with a big pot should be able to show a realistic income of 800,000bt from unearned income/pensions, etc or show funds that can generate this amount per year. Anybody will a little money can show 800,000bt. You need 16 million baht to generate this every year at 5% interest. Perhaps retirement visas should be brought up to line with other countries. I just wonder what Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, US and UK require. I bet it is not as low as $20,000. I would have thought nearer $1,000,000 (32,000,000bt).

For Malaysia it's 150K Ringgit under their MM2H program for the 50+. A million bucks? Give me a break, who's got that kind of dosh even after decades of working. And what would you need 800K baht in Thailand per year for? That's not realistic either for the majority of people. Nice to have, sure but not needed.

150k myr about 45000 us bucks not a million assuming you meant us bucks of course

my apology to original poster m my cancel failed on this post and realise my misreading of your posting sorry

[sievi]

This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.

In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)

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Thailand's got a similar problem regarding workers from Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, especially when they work illigally. Probably tightening the regulations is mainly aimed on these groups of workers.

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In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)

So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)

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Unfortunatly paying Falangs more than Thais is going by the rules as the law requires minimum wages for Falangs being 65k/m. Setting off this requirement might "open the market" so that if a Falang is willing to stay and work for competitive wages can do so. Probably not too many will but it could vanish the "jelousy-argument". On the other hand market is market. How many "Thai-Managers", off-springs of "well-situated-families" will be able to compete in the desired positions with really well educated Falangs if there was no difference in payment? So again it's protecting the own clientel (if you want to say so: class).

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The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.

As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.

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I agree that a spiralling inflation can't be the aim of any government, so again my suggestion: keep the wages competive, both for Falang and Thais. Additionally it might help to improve education but that would be a long, long way.

My 5ct Sievi

Edited January 6, 2010 by sievi

[ncrumley]

As I have already have a Cert Ed and taught IT/computing at a college of further education in the UK, I just wonder about all the foreign teachers in thailand covering english as a full time teachers. With a lower teaching certificate they would in the UK be having to work towards something higher for the first two years They would also need a Degree or Diploma in the subject(s) they are teaching. They would have been cross-checked with the Child Protection Reg and the Criminal Reg. I would think that 90% of the foreign (falang) teachers in Thailand would not get a job in their own country even if similar positions were available. I do not make this statement lightly as I have met quite a few in the years I have been in and out of Thailand. A six week course in Teaching English as a Foreign Language just does not cover anything. So really, Thailand is getting the poor end of the stick! This must be bad overall for Thailands education system and I can really understand them being very frustrated with it and the level of English being taught.

These are some bold and generalising statements. As an English teacher in this country (holding a Degree and a TEFL certificate) i would agree somewhat that the situation is not perfect. There are many undesirables working here, who are abusing the system in one way or another BUT there are a whole other kind of teachers, who you have probably not met in the bar that you frequent, who are working diligently preparing lessons and such.

What you seem to have overlooked is that there are similar positions in the uk just not on such a big level. TEFL teachers here, and in the uk, fill a unique market. Conversation. We may not have teaching degrees as such, but we are here to provide students as much with English training as with familiarisation and exposure to English speaking foreigners. The schools don't need an English professor, they need energetic folks with a base level of education (as we should, and for the most part do, have a degree and the TEFL) to allow students to build confidence around English speaking foreigners and confidence in using what language skills they have gained through both us and their Thai English teachers.

They don't expect hardened survivalists to run summer camps in the US, do they?

For you to say with such conviction that the TEFL phenomena is somehow hurting the level of education in this country is very insulting. The teaching community is growing stronger and more professional by the day, working to push out people not fit for the job; probably the wasters you have met in your circles.