Another One Bites The Dust!

[Sansai Sam]

Having said farewell to Baskin Robbins and Buonnisimo and having heard a rumor that the Pornping Hotel (including Bubbles and Hot Shots) will close soon I must announce that we will close the "Look at This" art gallery at the end of March. It's been fun but no sales. See you on the next venture.

[highonthai]

Sorry to hear it, Best of luck on the next venture.

I'll be closing my resturant this week too.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm sad to hear about both of you. I enjoy art galleries although I don't often buy anything.

highonthai, I wish that you had at least told me you had a restaurant. I would have liked to try it.

Good luck to both of you.

[ThaiPauly]

Sad news.

[Gonzo the Face]

Sorry to hear it, Best of luck on the next venture.

I'll be closing my resturant this week too.

Highonthai , would you care to post your location?

[Loaded]

Seems that quite a few farang businesses are suffering.

Is this because there are too many competitors or not enough farang?

When I arrived over a decade ago, it was difficult to even buy a Western-style sandwich but now there's a farang restaurant on every corner.

[Scrubber]

Seems that quite a few farang businesses are suffering.

Is this because there are too many competitors or not enough farang?

When I arrived over a decade ago, it was difficult to even buy a Western-style sandwich but now there's a farang restaurant on every corner.

One reason is often the location they choose. Case in point would be Jo-Jets in front of CMU. As for the location of Sansai Sam's sadly failed gallery, I'm not sure what business would work there. I popped in there a while back and while I really liked the gallery layout & artwork on display in there, I wondered how long it would stay open. I don't hold out much hope for the Sports Bar in the Night Bazaar, either.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Scrubber

[gotlost]

Seems that quite a few farang businesses are suffering.

Is this because there are too many competitors or not enough farang?

When I arrived over a decade ago, it was difficult to even buy a Western-style sandwich but now there's a farang restaurant on every corner.

One reason is often the location they choose. Case in point would be Jo-Jets in front of CMU. As for the location of Sansai Sam's sadly failed gallery, I'm not sure what business would work there. I popped in there a while back and while I really liked the gallery layout & artwork on display in there, I wondered how long it would stay open. I don't hold out much hope for the Sports Bar in the Night Bazaar, either.

Have to agree with your observations. Remember the three primary rules of business, LOCATION, LOCATION and LOCATION.

[Ulysses G.]

My personal opinion is that all the "hobby" businesses make it difficult for the more successful busineeses to thrive.

There are many places that do not make a profit, but the owners keep them open with their personal funds and they eat up a certain part of the market even if they lose money in the long run. The businesses that do make money, make much less than they would if there were not so many competitors that just keep open for something to do.

In the West, very few business owners could afford to do this, but because things are cheaper here, many foreigners with big incomes and rich Thais are willing to lose money, so they can say that they have a "business".

I rather retire to a nice beach town than have a business that was actively losing money.

[IanForbes]

You have a very good point, Ulysses. I have seen that very point played out in many places. When I was a young man working as a fishing guide, the lodge owner hired too many guides, and none of us made enough to make it worth while. We had to subsidize our income by commercial fishing on the side. It seems to be the Thai way to super saturate the market with everyone selling exactly the same product and working so close together that nobody can earn a decent living.

There are literally hundreds (thousands ?) of places to eat in Chiang Mai and not enough customers to go around. Add to that a slowed world economy and it is a recipe for disaster. Many of the bars along Loi Kroh road a empty or near empty. Pattaya SEEMED to be busy, like it always seems to be, but when you looked in at the hundreds of bars there were hardly any customers for the number of ladies calling out..."Hello, Welcome!"

[Mapguy]

I think the point about "hobby businesses" is well taken. At the same time, it is not unusual to see over-saturation of a market with a popular idea in any culture. Small business failure rates are great anywhere, especially restaurants, in many places, not just in Thailand.

[Johpa]

My personal opinion is that all the "hobby" businesses make it difficult for the more successful busineeses to thrive.

Hobbyists eventually make poor business decisions. The most common mistake is to buy for themselves and not for more rational reasons such as profit. I run a hobby shop within my store in the US. It is a hobby that I do not participate in and have no personal interest in. I hire others to staff it and I try hard to avoid the hobby counter. But somehow I am one of the few nationally to make it happen.

The real problem these days are the hobbyists who open online stores for a year or two, usually until the taxman cometh, and then disappear after learning that making money and keeping that money are two different things. But then there is always another fool in the wings as the startup costs of an online business are relatively small.

[Texpatt]

...the lodge owner hired too many guides, and none of us made enough to make it worth while. We had to subsidize our income by commercial fishing on the side. It seems to be the Thai way to super saturate the market with everyone selling exactly the same product and working so close together that nobody can earn a decent living.

Drive from Udon Thani to Khon Kaen and you'll pass a row of about 50 roadside stalls. Each of them is selling exactly the same boiled purple rice in a length of bamboo. The stalls stretch nearly a kilometer.

Bizarre.

Another hour to the south, and you pass sausage village. Dozens and dozens of roadside stalls -- one after another -- all selling sausage. There has to be hundreds of people involved in this.

What are they thinking? Wouldn't it make sense to at least spread out a little?

Edited January 17, 2010 by Texpatt

[ChiangMaiFun]

Hotshot and Bubbles closing? are you sure there is any milage in that rumour? they only just re-furbished the Bat Bar at the top of Pornping

[Ulysses G.]

there is always another fool in the wings

This is the big problem with doing business in Chiang Mai in a nutshell!

[Donnyboy]

i thought the Porn-gading hotel was sold to Chang last year, maybe its due another revamp to another beer bar

[Chicog]

Yes what's the source of the PornPing rumour? Or is it just closing for a refurbishment (it is due one).

[clinique]

Seems that quite a few farang businesses are suffering.

Is this because there are too many competitors or not enough farang?

When I arrived over a decade ago, it was difficult to even buy a Western-style sandwich but now there's a farang restaurant on every corner.

Loaded. my opinion having been here for 15 years would be that MOST farangs overcapitalise on their ingoing investment... Thais invest little for large turnover, farangs tend to do the opposite...hence....crash !!! Id opening a business here , best do it with a Thai (business) person, so the ingoing costs are at Thai levels.. especialy rent, wich for farangs is typically 4-5 times higher than fro thais...

[elektrified]

Seems that quite a few farang businesses are suffering.

Is this because there are too many competitors or not enough farang?

When I arrived over a decade ago, it was difficult to even buy a Western-style sandwich but now there's a farang restaurant on every corner.

Loaded. my opinion having been here for 15 years would be that MOST farangs overcapitalise on their ingoing investment... Thais invest little for large turnover, farangs tend to do the opposite...hence....crash !!! Id opening a business here , best do it with a Thai (business) person, so the ingoing costs are at Thai levels.. especialy rent, wich for farangs is typically 4-5 times higher than fro thais...

Farangs do not pay 4-5 times higher for rent than a Thai. Where did you get that? So what you are saying is that if a farang pays 10,000 Baht per month rent that the Thai pays 2,000-2,500 Baht for the same?

[clinique]

Seems that quite a few farang businesses are suffering.

Is this because there are too many competitors or not enough farang?

When I arrived over a decade ago, it was difficult to even buy a Western-style sandwich but now there's a farang restaurant on every corner.

Loaded. my opinion having been here for 15 years would be that MOST farangs overcapitalise on their ingoing investment... Thais invest little for large turnover, farangs tend to do the opposite...hence....crash !!! Id opening a business here , best do it with a Thai (business) person, so the ingoing costs are at Thai levels.. especialy rent, wich for farangs is typically 4-5 times higher than fro thais...

Farangs do not pay 4-5 times higher for rent than a Thai. Where did you get that? So what you are saying is that if a farang pays 10,000 Baht per month rent that the Thai pays 2,000-2,500 Baht for the same?

yes sorry should have been 2-5 ,,and i did say typically,,and from personal experience....... several farangs i have met over the years,, restaurants , offices,, have paid very high rents,, a restauanter was paying 75,000- per month,and paid 4 months deposit and 300,000 key money, and hurting,, my Thai friend called the building owner and was told she could rent the space fro 20,000- ...with one months advance.

an office rent was 20,000- per month and my thai friend has the same space next door (same owner) 5,000- per month..

HongThaew, farang is paying 12,000- per month,, 3 months deposit.. Thais in same development 3-3,500- per month, one month deposit..

[getgoin]

Yes, it is sad that foreigners are charged obscene rates, double charged, taken advantage of and generally taken for a ride.

What is worse is the blatant attempts to get something for nothing with the added, "take it or leave it," while a wide berth is cut for another Thai person.

We've all been subject to it. Bleeding hearts talk about expats portraying their hosts as unappreciative and talk about how we are condescending.

Take a look at the other side. How many foreigners have been screwed here? Oh, I'm sorry but it is a fact that will not go away.

Many people, including many people who want to move to Chiang Mai read these little word of wit (shit) looking for the answer of whether they should move to Chiang Mai or not.

So the answer is, yes, you will be over charged, screwed and generally taken advantage of.

Do not think about a business here unless your life and family depends upon it.

Do what you know.

Do not invest with another person.

Don't open a bar.

In Chiang Mai open a strip club, there are not enough.

Do not invest with a Thai, unless you trust and know them well.

Bring enough money.

Do not ask for favors.

Pray, if you pray.

Otherwise, I say, go home, work hard, take a good vacation here and spend your hard earned money.

[Ulysses G.]

getgoin is pretty much the only businessman I know of who is making more money during the financial crisis than he did before. When it comes to anything to do with business in Thailand, his opinion is well worth considering and he is often paid for it as a consultant.

[Donnyboy]

getgoin is pretty much the only businessman I know of who is making more money during the financial crisis than he did before. When it comes to anything to do with business in Thailand, his opinion is well worth considering and he is often paid for it as a consultant.

you opening a strip club soon then UG?

[Ulysses G.]

If I did, all the girl's pasties would have a picture of getgoin on them to honor him for coming up with the idea.

[Gonzo the Face]

I've got to get my opinion in here.

Expat, if you come to Thailand and want to start a business.

DO IT !

Its your money. Spend it like you want to. You do not have to please the Thais. You do not have to please the expats. You do not have to please others in business. ITS YOUR MONEY.

However.

You better do your homework. It is considerably easier to loose your stash here than probably in your own country.

Don't come here and start a business with 6 months life experience in Thailand.

I somewhat disagree with the earlier poster about expats over capitalizing.... i think that most that jump into business are undercapitalized in both monetary and mental reserves. Having a nice place of business does not scare customers away, but know this, it does take more capital to keep it going at that leval.

If you've never operated a business in the western world, then understand the odds are against you being successful here.

I don't buy this "Hobby Business" crap. The same people who blow the horn about this causing others to fail, as its not good business practice, are the very same ones who will twist and turn and do everything to put the competition out of business. Where are their moral values when it comes to their own busisness practices.

Spending your money on your own business does not put others out of business. Maybe their monkey see, monkey do attitude will though.

Thats one thing about this old world of ours..... ITS YOUR MONEY, You worked for it, spend it however it makes you happy. Hopefully in legal ventures.

Just my opinion

gonzo

Edited January 19, 2010 by Gonzo the Face

[Donnyboy]

^ drinking beer and attending strip clubs arent hobbies then?

[Bagwan]

...the lodge owner hired too many guides, and none of us made enough to make it worth while. We had to subsidize our income by commercial fishing on the side. It seems to be the Thai way to super saturate the market with everyone selling exactly the same product and working so close together that nobody can earn a decent living.

Drive from Udon Thani to Khon Kaen and you'll pass a row of about 50 roadside stalls. Each of them is selling exactly the same boiled purple rice in a length of bamboo. The stalls stretch nearly a kilometer.

Bizarre.

Another hour to the south, and you pass sausage village. Dozens and dozens of roadside stalls -- one after another -- all selling sausage. There has to be hundreds of people involved in this.

What are they thinking? Wouldn't it make sense to at least spread out a little?

There must be thousands of empty condos and houses in Pattaya and they are still building. Where do they think the purchasers are going to come from? And then there are the posh shops! Who in their right mind comes to Pattaya to spend big bucks on whatever?

The Vientianne restaurant was always well patronised when on 2nd Road but since relocating to Soi 1, Pattaya Tai is seldom more than half full when I call in. As has been pointed out LOCATION is important.

[IanForbes]

Yes, it is sad that foreigners are charged obscene rates, double charged, taken advantage of and generally taken for a ride.

What is worse is the blatant attempts to get something for nothing with the added, "take it or leave it," while a wide berth is cut for another Thai person.

We've all been subject to it. Bleeding hearts talk about expats portraying their hosts as unappreciative and talk about how we are condescending.

Take a look at the other side. How many foreigners have been screwed here? Oh, I'm sorry but it is a fact that will not go away.

Many people, including many people who want to move to Chiang Mai read these little word of wit (shit) looking for the answer of whether they should move to Chiang Mai or not.

So the answer is, yes, you will be over charged, screwed and generally taken advantage of.

Do not think about a business here unless your life and family depends upon it.

Do what you know.

Do not invest with another person.

Don't open a bar.

In Chiang Mai open a strip club, there are not enough.

Do not invest with a Thai, unless you trust and know them well.

Bring enough money.

Do not ask for favors.

Pray, if you pray.

Otherwise, I say, go home, work hard, take a good vacation here and spend your hard earned money.

Good advice. I agree with you. Understanding the unwritten rules here goes a long way in whether a business is going to succeed or not. A strip club in Chiang Mai "might" work, but the police chief would be the one to ask that question. In any case there would probably be some "tea" money involved. Who knows what highly placed person might object with ANY type of operation. I've always said to never invest in anything that you can't walk away from with no regrets.

[Gonzo the Face]

The Casino Finance Principle or Principal in this case...

Never bring more money with you than you could afford leaving with none.....

Edited January 19, 2010 by Gonzo the Face

[anonymouse]

If I did, all the girl's pasties would have a picture of getgoin on them to honor him for coming up with the idea.

I'd stick to the bookselling, to many temptations