Thai Govt Aims At Turning Thailand Into Full Welfare State

[way2muchcoffee]

I have no problem with business owners recouping their investments. I have no problem with professionals recouping the investment in the education that enabled them to be professionals. I have no problem with CEOs who command reasonable salaries. I have no problem with reasonable wealth.

I simply believe that the wealth and greed we see today and throughout history is not at all reasonable, far from it. I believe that the natural consequence of the ideology you espouse will lead to the kind of inequity we see here in lovely little Thailand. Two hundred baht a day for 12 hours honest work while the business owner is pulling tens of thousands for that same day? Really?

Edited January 26, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Thai at Heart]

As admirable an idea as this might be, people in Thailand (me included) will resent paying over their taxes as long as they believe that the government personnel will swallow 20% of it, and that nothing appears to be getting better. Not enough companies pay what they should, whilst the employee gets whacked every time.

I would suggest however, that a well implemented land tax alongside giving the" tax man" some very serious incentives to collect from private business, it would mean that the government could fund just about anything they could think of as a project for the next 10 years. There is no reason why the top income tax rate in Thailand could be reduced and the free allowance increased, if the collection efficiency increased.

I firmly believe if they cut corporation and income taxes here, but made everyone pay come hel_l or high water, the total take would go up massively. Once again much like the cops, the problem is implementation of the law.

People shouldn't resent paying taxes as long as they feel that something is getting better, unfortunately, it seems far too much money in Thailand disappears into the bottomless pit called someone's back pocket, whilst those who don't want to pay, don't.

[citizen33]

You are mixing oranges and apples, socialism is a political system, capitalism is not. Communism is the polarized opposite of capitalism. The opposite of socialism is libertarianism.

Heavy taxation and Government handouts is socialism, however you want to put it.

I would venture to guess that TAWP must be an American! On his definition much more of the world is painted red than even in the heyday of the British empire. I wonder what all those staid Western European Christian Democrats will say when they learn they are socialists. Presumably when the British government started to build the early public health system to improve the fitness of military recruits, it was the first sign of creeping socialism. People from Europe look at the bizarre definitions of socialism and communism put forward by the cousins and think ... well, I'd better not say.

[paulfr]

I have no problem with business owners recouping their investments.

I see. So you put money in a bank and its "ok to be able to get it back."

Or you take huge personal, professional and financial risks starting a business creating

hundreds of jobs and its "ok to get your money back"

Very generous of you.

I simply believe that the wealth and greed we see today and throughout history is not at all reasonable, far from it. I believe that the natural consequence of the ideology you espouse will lead to the kind of inequity we see here in lovely little Thailand.

It is hard to imagine any comparison such as this being further from the truth.

In America, 1% own 33% of the wealth. That is 3 million people own this huge percentage.

In Thailand, the CPB owned by "you know who" owns 85% of the wealth.

3 million compared to 1 family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Property_Bureau

Note the first sentence ..... "managing the personal wealth of XXX and his immediate family."

BTW, do you think ONLY businessmen are greedy [money is one form of power] ?

Politicians are not [interested in more power] ?

[gcrepos]

How I view it thai guy has babies disappears divorced by wife

she applies to bank of farang for loan approval after a few English lessons

Bank manager approves loans to kids & family

I don't see how can change

no taxes to support .......no wealth to tap .......no serious natural un-used resources

short sighted brown envelope trading 55555555555 not possible

smoke but no fire politics oops accident post wrong section but not sure how to correct thai welfare state by 2015 i think was subject

Edited January 30, 2010 by gcrepos

[way2muchcoffee]

I have no problem with business owners recouping their investments.

I see. So you put money in a bank and its "ok to be able to get it back."

Or you take huge personal, professional and financial risks starting a business creating

hundreds of jobs and its "ok to get your money back"

Very generous of you.

What does putting money in a bank and getting it out have to do with anything?

With regards to my generosity, I would only call this fairness. A man starts a business and does well should be able to get his investment back and earn profit. I don't see anything contentious here. Perhaps only in your mind?

I simply believe that the wealth and greed we see today and throughout history is not at all reasonable, far from it. I believe that the natural consequence of the ideology you espouse will lead to the kind of inequity we see here in lovely little Thailand.

It is hard to imagine any comparison such as this being further from the truth.

In America, 1% own 33% of the wealth. That is 3 million people own this huge percentage.

In Thailand, the CPB owned by "you know who" owns 85% of the wealth.

3 million compared to 1 family.

BTW, do you think ONLY businessmen are greedy [money is one form of power] ?

Politicians are not [interested in more power] ?

My comment was on TAWP's libertarian ideology. I wasn't making any specific digs at any particular country, but was referring to all countries. What would make you think otherwise?

I believe there exists obscene wealth and obscene wealth distribution in every country. Some countries do better at wealth redistribution than others. Kudos to those countries and shame on the rest.

[paulfr]

1/ What does putting money in a bank and getting it out have to do with anything?

2/ "A man starts a business and does well should be able to get his investment back and earn profit."

3/ My comment was on TAWP's libertarian ideology.

I wasn't making any specific digs at any particular country, but was referring to all countries.

What would make you think otherwise?

4/ I believe there exists obscene wealth .......

1/ It makes clear the comparison of an investment with no risk [bank account] and

one with large risks [starting a business]

2/ That is NOT what you said [or implied] which is why I made the comparison of bank account to the startup.

You made no mention of profit or interest in your original statement.

Who would ever make an investment in a business if all they reaped was a return of their money ?

Charity is a separate issue.

3/ The fact that TAWP was clearing referring to his country and you mentioned Thailand.

And my reply made no limitation to one country either. Australia, UK and serveral other

Western countries where freedom prevails, have similar wealth concentrations.

But the numbers show that never before in human history have so many been a

part of the upper class. And that is a direct result of freedom, not statism or theocracy.

4/ How exactly is wealth obscene ?

I never understand this superficial criticism of capitalism.

First someone in the family created huge amounts of jobs and satisfied customers

to create that wealth.

There is little any politician can do to match that except safeguard the conditions that

make it possible.

But much more to the point, that wealth that you feel is unfair is sitting in investments, bank accounts,

and security portfolios that create even more jobs and loans to middle class people wanting

to buy a home or a car. I do not see any harm in that.

Edited January 31, 2010 by paulfr

[TAWP]

I simply believe that the wealth and greed we see today and throughout history is not at all reasonable, far from it. I believe that the natural consequence of the ideology you espouse will lead to the kind of inequity we see here in lovely little Thailand.

It is hard to imagine any comparison such as this being further from the truth.

In America, 1% own 33% of the wealth. That is 3 million people own this huge percentage.

In Thailand, the CPB owned by "you know who" owns 85% of the wealth.

3 million compared to 1 family.

BTW, do you think ONLY businessmen are greedy [money is one form of power] ?

Politicians are not [interested in more power] ?

My comment was on TAWP's libertarian ideology. I wasn't making any specific digs at any particular country, but was referring to all countries. What would make you think otherwise?

I believe there exists obscene wealth and obscene wealth distribution in every country. Some countries do better at wealth redistribution than others. Kudos to those countries and shame on the rest.

The owners of a corporation is the shareholders. If they are comfortable in rewarding their CEO with a salary and bonus in the group of 300million per year, who are we to protest? Scream unfair as much as you want, one cannot be payed higher than someone is willing to pay. A CEO is still a hired worker.

And usually the reason a few get very-very rich, with notable exceptions ofcourse, in a way that seem unbalanced against how a market should work, is directly from government intervension, aka Corporatism. That is the enemy of proper Capitalism; it is the perversion of the economical system by a few business owners and politicians in power.

No amount of handouts will correct this, as the tax-money will no doubt be taken from mostly the middle class and companies outside the ruling sphere. While the best way to help poor people is to allow them to build their way out of poverty.