No Blue Book For My Car

[hithere]

Hi

BTW feel free to ask anything you want and i will try to answer

[Benjie]

It's 2nd hand cars so are red plates an issue?

[CDNinKS]

Hi

I did ask for the book, i did that from day 1 also asked why it should take so long time to get it, i cant see i am responsible in any of this, paid cash for the car and after 3 years still waiting for the book

Ok, well I suppose you left the shop in good faith thinking they would get the book to you......but I doubt you will ever do that again and I'm sure everyone who reads this will never walk out of a shop with white plates and no book. Lesson learned the hard way.

It's 2nd hand cars so are red plates an issue?

Yes, I missed that part.....you are right, it should have had white plates on it already.

hithere, what reason did they give you for not having the book available on the day you paid for and picked up the car?

Edited January 29, 2010 by CDNinKS

[hithere]

Hi

I did ask for the book, i did that from day 1 also asked why it should take so long time to get it, i cant see i am responsible in any of this, paid cash for the car and after 3 years still waiting for the book

Ok, well I suppose you left the shop in good faith thinking they would get the book to you......but I doubt you will ever do that again and I'm sure everyone who reads this will never walk out of a shop with white plates and no book. Lesson learned the hard way.

It's 2nd hand cars so are red plates an issue?

Yes, I missed that part.....you are right, it should have had white plates on it already.

hithere, what reason did they give you for not having the book available on the day you paid for and picked up the car?

Hi There

This was a brand new car, never used before, thats why it was on red plate, the white plate was sent to me, i live 1000 km from BKK, thats why they told me the book would come later.

[lioness]

Just to get this right. you bought a new car, now 3 years later you want your money back because you do not have a blue book. Could I just ask you how many kilometers are on the clock?

[stingray]

I need to understand something here please? No one has mentioned the annual road taxes and decal? How has the owner been paying for the tax and CPL insurance the last 3 years? You need the book to do this? I know he says they have not been using the car for some time now but what about in the first couple of years?

You don't need the book for this. A copie is just fine.

[MikeyIdea]

Just to get this right. you bought a new car, now 3 years later you want your money back because you do not have a blue book. Could I just ask you how many kilometers are on the clock?

When I read the OPs posts, then I don't quite understand them as he actually wants the money back, if there had been another option apart from losing the money all together.

I understood that as being a work around because he has been ripped off by Expat Motors and paid cash for a new car that 3 years later they still have not transferred to him

[husskydog]

I look at expat motors every day for my ideal car, glad i`m taking my time choosing....but sorry to say their bookmark has been deleted...i will look elsewhere now..

[MikeyIdea]

I look at expat motors every day for my ideal car, glad i`m taking my time choosing....but sorry to say their bookmark has been deleted...i will look elsewhere now..

I will continue to look and could maybe possibly even buy from them in the future, but I would make sure I protect myself to the level where they probably would not want me as their customer anyway...

[hithere]

Just to get this right. you bought a new car, now 3 years later you want your money back because you do not have a blue book. Could I just ask you how many kilometers are on the clock?

Hi There

I am sure if you read it from the start you will find out i want the blue book, but after 3 years i offered them the car for 700.000 (look post #4)

and thats less then the car trade for if you look around.

[LivinLOS]

The company in question is my company "Expat Motors". Yes we did business with a supplier 3 years ago or so supplying us new cars. In total we had around 80 vehicles from him. After a period of time registation docs from this supplier started to get slower and slower in coming to us. In the end we stopped buying from him and have been stuck with 10 cars with outstanding registration documents due. We found out after some investigations that the supplier was financing the cars after we'd paid cash for them. Anyway he's locked up and we have several unhappy people wanting paperwork, refunds etc from us. We don't have the funds to close the outstanding finance neither can we afford to buy the cars back so in a difficult spot.

We are working on selling these cars on, but price is an issue, and have ongoing legal proceedings with the original supplier. We stopped dealing with this individual as soon as we leant something was amiss but continue to deal in cars from more reliable sources.

I'm not going to get into an online arguement with anyone on the board regarding this, but wanted to explain the situation from our side.

We've been in business for over 10 years and I'm sure there are more than a few Thai Visa readers who are happy with the services we've provided.

Andy Wing

Expat Motors

Well dont for laying it out.. But I have to say thats not the customers fault.

If the contract of sale is between the customer and you.. You owe him the books.. Either give him the book, or give him his money back. If your company folds because you made a bad business choice thats your problem. You made a contract / commitment and you need to maintain it or leave the marketplace. No stringing customers along with we hope or please wait.

[stingray]

The company in question is my company "Expat Motors". Yes we did business with a supplier 3 years ago or so supplying us new cars. In total we had around 80 vehicles from him. After a period of time registation docs from this supplier started to get slower and slower in coming to us. In the end we stopped buying from him and have been stuck with 10 cars with outstanding registration documents due. We found out after some investigations that the supplier was financing the cars after we'd paid cash for them. Anyway he's locked up and we have several unhappy people wanting paperwork, refunds etc from us. We don't have the funds to close the outstanding finance neither can we afford to buy the cars back so in a difficult spot.

We are working on selling these cars on, but price is an issue, and have ongoing legal proceedings with the original supplier. We stopped dealing with this individual as soon as we leant something was amiss but continue to deal in cars from more reliable sources.

I'm not going to get into an online arguement with anyone on the board regarding this, but wanted to explain the situation from our side.

We've been in business for over 10 years and I'm sure there are more than a few Thai Visa readers who are happy with the services we've provided.

Andy Wing

Expat Motors

Well dont for laying it out.. But I have to say thats not the customers fault.

If the contract of sale is between the customer and you.. You owe him the books.. Either give him the book, or give him his money back. If your company folds because you made a bad business choice thats your problem. You made a contract / commitment and you need to maintain it or leave the marketplace. No stringing customers along with we hope or please wait.

Something "smells" here. If the car has red plate, it must be a new car. So where the car came from? If it's owned by a Thai guy, for example, i'm sure the car was in the finance, as most of peaple not pay in cash. So far as i can see in the posts, the owner got's the money (he is actually not the owner) and didn't pay the finance company. Ant there is the big mistake. Why Expat Motors handles money to this guy? They should go with this guy (who have the car) to the finance company and clear out the outstanding money directly with the finance company. Every one who have a little bit of common senses, never would pay a local guy 700'k for example, without get informet on outstanding finance. As Expat Motor is in the carbusiness they should know how to deal.

[Gary A]

Some time back I had a problem when buying a second had vehicle from an individual. He had a loan on the vehicle and wanted the money up front. I refused and told him that I didn't care how or if he handled it but no money would change hands until I had the signed off book in my hand. Somehow he worked it out with the finance people and I got the book. I protected my interest and the finance people protected their interests. NEVER buy a vehicle without the book transferring along with the money or you could end up like the OP.

ADDED - Obviously the finance company will NEVER release the book until they are paid off. If the book is to be released, someone will have to pay off the balance.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Gary A

[LivinLOS]

Some time back I had a problem when buying a second had vehicle from an individual. He had a loan on the vehicle and wanted the money up front. I refused and told him that I didn't care how or if he handled it but no money would change hands until I had the signed off book in my hand. Somehow he worked it out with the finance people and I got the book. I protected my interest and the finance people protected their interests. NEVER buy a vehicle without the book transferring along with the money or you could end up like the OP.

I actually did similar for a Thai guy behind on the payments..

I went and paid off the finance co, who released the book to me not him.. Once the book was in my name I wired him the remaining amount as per the agreement.

[simcity]

ADDED - Obviously the finance company will NEVER release the book until they are paid off. If the book is to be released, someone will have to pay off the balance.

I just wonder how a finance company will finance your car if the blue book takes few weeks to be issue to them.

In the main time, the blue book could be register to some other finance? non?

And I think it is very wise if bought a second hand car to deal between finance & vendor at the same time + walk away with the blue book.

In Australia to receive a insurance cheque from a total write off i did need to pass at the finance company to clear my account.

Edited January 29, 2010 by simcity

[hithere]

Hi There

The car was new when i bought it, brand new, paid 1,2mill cash for the car + extras around 45.000 Baht

and i offered them to take it back for 700.000 and thats under what they sell on the market, thats why i think i will not get the blue book, if they thought they could get the book then they could sell the car and make some money..

[LivinLOS]

Jees thats fair on your part.. And they still turn it down ??

At what point did you officially ask for money back..

[Benjie]

How are they selling brand new cars with finance already on them? How does that situation even arise? It's starting to sound really fishy.

[LivinLOS]

He buys a new car.. He pays cash..

They give him the new car and tell him the plate and book is coming.. In the meantime the supplier of the new car take out finance and skips with it..

Seems simple to me..

The argument is between the dealer and the supplier of the cars.. Not the buyer.

[lingnoi34]

The Op and Expatmotors had a contact. Op fulfilled his end and since 3 years Expat is required to fulfil theirs which they havent. It makes no difference if they had/have probs with their supplier. It is their responsibility to do due dilligence on suppliers and protect their business interests. They obviously failed to do that. I would not in 1 million years dream of doing business with Expat knowing the way they handled/are handling this situation. Personally, I would turn this over to my lawyer and have him go after Expat even if it means forcing them into bankruptcy!

LN

[hithere]

Jees thats fair on your part.. And they still turn it down ??

At what point did you officially ask for money back..

Hi There

Yes they still turn me down, the car look very well so thats why i think i might never see the book i am not 100% sure at what time i start asking about money, mind you i told them they could buy it back and i have never asked for full refund never, i asked them to buy it back for the market price, i even went under market price and now i am about 100.000 or even more under market price but did it help, no.

And i am sure they will tell you that i have never been asking for any big money, if they would comment on this. But from the start they was saying it look bright now, we dont think it will take long before we see some action, well thats more than 3 years ago

[hithere]

He buys a new car.. He pays cash..

They give him the new car and tell him the plate and book is coming.. In the meantime the supplier of the new car take out finance and skips with it..

Seems simple to me..

The argument is between the dealer and the supplier of the cars.. Not the buyer.

Hi There

Spot on

[hithere]

CDNinKS, I would rather address this to Expat Motors as they have come forward. The buyer cannot explain how the white plates were produced but they can.

Expat Motors:

It seems that you have no blue book, at least you have not provided the lawful buyer with even copies for 3 years, how were the white plates produced?

I think this topic will create a lot of question marks about a certain companies treatment of a customer who relies on the honesty and professionalism of their service. This being so important to farangs in a different country not totally sure how stuff works and depend on that honesty and professionalism to make life easier. If everything said in the topic is true and correct, the company should not have put their customer in this situation and should take responsibility for it's own business error, what ever the cost.

Hi There

I have been as honest is I can, I have not told anybody what the company name was, they told themselves, I have no reason to lie, why should i??? All I want is a book or some money back, I have told them long time ago I would go public with this, I intend to do so in as many web sites I can. Not fun to have a car you can’t drive

I wish I could find the other 9 people so we could build a case and get a good lawyer

[thaicbr]

I would also consider at what time that THAI VISA are going to ban EXPAT MOTORS from being a forum sponsor when they treat members so shoddily. It is a management fault with Expat and they should sort it out. They have been paid but the customer is having problems with a refinanced car. Expat should buy back the car or at minimum take the finance company payments on so that they the finance company do not keep going after the customer. Who it has to be said has done NOTHING wrong. Some thing smells here and i dont think its the OP.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited January 30, 2010 by thaicbr

[terdsak_12]

Expat Motors have advised all involved several times to take appropriate legal action to protect themselves if they feel they need to. Some have, some have not. We can’t buy back one car we have to buy back or resolve all affected to be fair in this, which is something financially not possible at this time.

Our company acts as a broker in vehicle sales with our customers, we don’t buy stock and wait for buyers to come along this has never been our practice. While this isn’t any way of shirking responsibility this is how we do business. People approach us stating what they require and we source that vehicle from our contacts in the Bangkok car market be it used or brand new.

We’ve been fighting the supplier of these cars and the finance companies involved over the past few years through the courts, this is still an ongoing process due to the speed of the Thai legal system. We accept responsibility for this issue and always have done.

In the meantime we are working with sources and contacts in Bangkok to sell these cars on for the best price possible based on their circumstances so the buyers can get a reasonable return on their vehicle. All people involved are aware of this, and most accept it.

I'm not going to go into the how’s, where’s, why’s and what’s with people on this board regarding this issue. The OP is doing a good job of that anyway. People can form their own conclusion about our business as is their right. I'm not going to say anything more about this on this public forum.

Andy Wing

Expat Motors Co, Ltd.

[LivinLOS]

Andy, the idea your a middleman might (and I do mean might) be acceptable if this was you acting as a broker for second hand cars..

But you supplied this car new, and it sounds like you have been stringing out the problem and lieing all the way while you knew the facts to be different..

I for one am amazed your still a sponsor here and the way you have acted basically shows what kind of business you run.. You need to pony up and pay the customers back and take your liability back on board, your agreements with your suppliers are your own, not your customers.

[jcon]

Toyota Fortuner, yes?

There was a time when many were facing long delivery times for Fortuners and Expat Motors (Andy) would be on the forum saying he could get the cars immediately, without wait. I always wondered how.... now (if it's the Fortuner) I see that what was going on is quite literally a scam (call it what you will, but just as LivinLos has stated, the contract for the new vehicles was made between Expat Motors and the clients, and whatever problems with the suppliers is the responsibility of Expat Motors, not the clients.

3 years is a long time - OP appears to have tried the "nice" route, but now it's time to go the legal route (but TIT so who knows what the outcome may be - but that's no excuse not to proceed legally). Expat Motors needs to buy back the cars, or provide the book. Period. 10 cars at 1.2 million, 12 million THB scammed. Forum sponsor? Shame.

My 2 cents.

(As for the "We've been in business for 10 years" angle - well then take responsibility and be accountable for your actions. You can build whatever business you want for however long you want, but it takes one situation like this handled incorrectly to ruin your reputation. This shift of blame to "the supplier" is sad and counter to the whole business model that Expat Motors was trying to run - that dealing with an expat was "better"/"easier"/"more trustworthy" than dealing with locals. I bet the OP wishes he just would have waited for a legit car from the dealer, because in fact Expat Motors is acting very Thai now in shifting the blame.)

[katabeachbum]

Expat Motors have advised all involved several times to take appropriate legal action to protect themselves if they feel they need to. Some have, some have not. We can't buy back one car we have to buy back or resolve all affected to be fair in this, which is something financially not possible at this time.

Our company acts as a broker in vehicle sales with our customers, we don't buy stock and wait for buyers to come along this has never been our practice. While this isn't any way of shirking responsibility this is how we do business. People approach us stating what they require and we source that vehicle from our contacts in the Bangkok car market be it used or brand new.

We've been fighting the supplier of these cars and the finance companies involved over the past few years through the courts, this is still an ongoing process due to the speed of the Thai legal system. We accept responsibility for this issue and always have done.

In the meantime we are working with sources and contacts in Bangkok to sell these cars on for the best price possible based on their circumstances so the buyers can get a reasonable return on their vehicle. All people involved are aware of this, and most accept it.

I'm not going to go into the how's, where's, why's and what's with people on this board regarding this issue. The OP is doing a good job of that anyway. People can form their own conclusion about our business as is their right. I'm not going to say anything more about this on this public forum.

Andy Wing

Expat Motors Co, Ltd.

Andy, not true.

2006 you gave me an offer for brand new japs car, 1,5 mill baht. Directly from Expat Motors, not my concern where you sourced it. You acted as a new car dealer. I found it odd finance was not available, and bought it directly from main dealer in BKK with finance

After realising what sh-t you have brought to 10 of your customers, at least you could have made the monthly payments to the financecompanies making it possible for your customers to drive the cars they have payed.

PAYED IN FULL, TO YOU

OP, I would seek imidiate legal advice, and probably go the bancrupsy way before these brits leave LOS. If your legal advisor find it helpful, I can try to find emails from Andy stating Expat Motors are not brokers, they act as direct car dealers.

Todays lesson, dont by a new car from anything else than the maindealers. They have 90 days to provide legal book and plates. 91st day its time for legal actions.

[Gary A]

Having followed the thread, it is my opinion that whoever was paid the money is responsible for delivering the product and the proper paperwork. If they are not able to complete the transaction and deliver the book, it is their fault and not the trusting buyer. Regardless or whether they belly up or not, it is their responsibility. It is certainly up to the seller to have a reliable vendor.

[hawthorne]

My question to Ripoff the Expat Motors Inc.

Do you not carry insurance? As a broker who recieves only the commission is liable for the commission amount only unless fraud can be proven. You instead acted as the owner accepting the full sale through your bank there fore becoming liable for 100% of the price of the vehicle.

I would visit my insurance company and make a claim. If nothing else have your insurance company settle out of court with the 10 buyers to reduce the cost of a court case. You should atleast make an offer. Maybe after 3 years your customers will settle for a reduced compensation just to be rid of your sorry arse and you can close this chapter of your company.

Secondly how sure is anyone that this guy really is the owner of Rippoff the Expat Motors?

How smart is it to come on a public forum and admit guilt.

OP sell your car for parts.

It may take you a long time but you will get a lot more money for the car than it is worth if you are patient.

If you do own a Fortuner as I do it will be easy to sell. Sell the engine whole. Get in touch with some body shops. When they need a fender bumper give you a call.