Thai Lesbians Banned From Marriage On Valentines Day

[Jingthing]

The other funny thing about this issue is that it really wouldn't impact society much at all if it was allowed. Recent studies show only about 2-3 percent of the population is gay (not 10 percent) and of those people probably most would NOT want to ever get married. So as far as ruining hetero marriage, it would not, you would hardly notice it. If you think hetero marriage is on the rocks, look in the mirror. Blaming gays is a cop out.

I respect people who have a religious objection to it. If the Catholic church says no go, then no go at your church, but that doesn't mean secular governments can't grant equal civil rights to all of their citizens. Only in theocracies like Iran would what religions say make any difference.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

And 3 more fallacious arguments from Sean. Sean you can become Thai if you qualify but it has nothing to do with marraige.

In no way does gay marraige open the world up for anrachy if it did then that would have happened already since gay marraiges have been recognized in many places in modern history for a long time now ... and in pre-modern history as well (in many places).

and the last and nastiest of poor Sean's arguments .... Sean nobody is trying to marry a waterbuffalo.

[jdinasia]

And yet another type of fallacious argument (nose of the camel maybe?) and a quite nasty remark as well.

Sean --- gay and lesbian people have always been a part of humanity and since that is so, there is no aberration of human nature involved. Your arguments have so little merit that it really isn't worth giving you the attention you seem so desperately to be craving.

The amazing thing is you choose to stay in Thailand and make your visa runs considering how accepting Thai people are of something that you so clearly loathe. You can't spend an hour out in public in Thailand without coming across gay people. I am sure that if you spouted off like this around any number of Thai people you would find yourself ostraciszed more and more daily.

[jdinasia]

hmmm and that should readily solve the SeanMoran problem .......

[Royale]

I wonder what **flame removed** would do if he got married and then produced a gay child, just incase all hetero homophobes forget, that's where gays come from, they come from you .They're not going to go away and in time they will be given the same rights, so *** give that some thought.

[animatic]

I honestly do not believe that anyone wants to "tear all the last remaining good things down in this world,"

It is simply a matter of legally acknowledging their relationship as a legal entity. These people are, as far as i am aware not trying to interfere with any "Normal" relationship, just be allowed to live their lives in a legally recognized way that affords them some fiscal and legitimate recognition!

FF

So you are saying that all of the children of this world are worthless? Well done.

---o0o---

The legally recognised way is called 'union' but it doesn't involve children because it physically cannot. Marriage is between two people who can have a family. Basic biology,

Wow ... First a straw man argument.... and then

an error of fact argument (or just an outright lie)

The poster in no way said all of the children of this world are worthless.

Marraige isn't about procreation ... and any 2 people can "have a family"

The first one (Straw man) is rather reprehensible .. the second argument is just stupid.

Yeah it is quite a roll they are on...

And I note they haven't elucidated any arguments vs my posts on this subject.

It seems a philosophical stasis what's desired, but only by those who fit in the mold already.

All other options seem to scare them into paroxysms of fear.

why must it still be so in the 21st century?

[animatic]

Ah yes: The Values Argument...

Well, it really all depends on what you value in your philosophical view of human relations.

Wishing good will and continued good health and personaly happiness towards your fellow man ALL your fellow man

would be a nice starting place. But apparently some people don't fit in the group to be valued as they are.

Your way or the genetic highway to hel_l eh?

I value my wife and child, and also value my good friend and his kaotey mate.

But then my mind isn't philosophically closed to different ways of life.

[SeanMoran]

I wonder what*flame removed*would do if he got married and then produced a gay child, just incase all hetero homophobes forget, that's where gays come from, they come from you .They're not going to go away and in time they will be given the same rights, so *** give that some thought.

Have you had any luck with solving your keyboard problems?

In the interim, marriage is as heterosexual as jumpimg from heights without wings is dangerous.

Anyone who wants to marry someone of the same gender as him or herself, is mistaken in their intentions. You can't have children. Join a frigging monastery if you're to dumb to work that out.

[jdinasia]

Yes Ani

Simple facts don't seem to matter to some bigots. That is OK though! They resist simple civil-rights changes and get more entrenched and more isolated in a world they do not understand and cannot cope with.

But I still have a hard time understanding why someone would come to a place as open and accepting of gays as Thailand when they feel this way.

[Jingthing]

Anyone who wants to marry someone of the same gender as him or herself, is mistaken in their intentions. You can't have children.

You don't even read the replies, do you?

Back to something perhaps more interesting, Thai culture experts, what tactics would potentially be effective for gay Thais to gain equal marriage civil rights?

Edited February 16, 2010 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

One poster from this forum worked in one of the committees that sent proposals to the Constitution Drafting Committee in 2007.

The simple way will be tagging gay and lesbian rights with women's rights AND showing a possible financial benefit to the country. Thailand already gets a large number of Gay and Lesbian tourists. Having TAT be able to promote gay weddings and gay honeymoons to DINK's all over the world would be a money maker.

The very fact that offering gay marraiges would be a benefit in the eyes of civil rights groups the world over would certainly not hurt a somewhat tarnished image as well.

(DINK = Dual Income No Kids)

[sbk]

Posts and their responses have been deleted. One more that requires deletion will result in a posting rights suspension. I do hope this is quite clear.

[SeanMoran]

Posts and their responses have been deleted. One more that requires deletion will result in a posting rights suspension. I do hope this is quite clear.

I would appreciate it if we could discuss the topic and refrain from talking about my own children and their genetics, because that is taken as a very deep insult. Please let us get back on topic .

[jdinasia]

Hmmmm although I didn't ask that question ..... and the characterization of the question is not accurate, it is still a very valuable question in this thread so I will rephrase it for the poster.

Where do some of these heterosexual people think that gay people come from? Gay people have heterosexual parents (for the most part). What would some of these reactionary people who have replied on this thread think if they had a child that grew up to be gay or lesbian?

Would they deny their own child the right to marry? Would they disown a child because they were gay or lesbian?

Now --- again to the assertion that marraige is about procreation. That is a falacious argument yet again since marraige is a secular thing and is not restricted to people that are capable of having children.

[luluanator]

What the heck is up with all this we-dont-like-man lesbian stuff going on around Bangkok these days?

Why are they allowed to frolick and grope on each other out in the clear open when male/female couples have to maintain decorum or face shame and loss of face? Why don't Thai parents care at all that their lovely young daughter is getting exploited in bed by another female, but if it were by a male, especially a farang, the dating procedure would have to be prim and proper, better yet be disallowed?

Decorum aside, I do find it interesting that same sex couples enjoy a lot more PDA than opposite sex couples in TH. The other day on the BTS two thoms were making out and bumping and grinding. No one (except for farangs) batted an eye. I was quite shocked, not in a bad way, but just not something I thought would be tolerated in Thai society considering the attitude towards hetero couples doing the same thing. Good topic for class.

And, by the way, I totally support gay marriage. Why shouldn't same sex couples get to enjoy the tedium of marriage? 555

Love should never be discouraged or ridiculed.

[SeanMoran]

Hmmmm although I didn't ask that question ..... and the characterization of the question is not accurate, it is still a very valuable question in this thread so I will rephrase it for the poster.

Where do some of these heterosexual people think that gay people come from? Gay people have heterosexual parents (for the most part). What would some of these reactionary people who have replied on this thread think if they had a child that grew up to be gay or lesbian?

Would they deny their own child the right to marry? Would they disown a child because they were gay or lesbian?

Now --- again to the assertion that marraige is about procreation. That is a falacious argument yet again since marraige is a secular thing and is not restricted to people that are capable of having children.

I have two surviving sons, and they are both single, as far as I know. One will be 19 in October and my youngest son will be 18 in December. I will never try to persuade them to be like me, although it's in their blood, but if one of my sons meets a bloke and happens to fall in love, then I'll still love him the same as a father, because that kind of love goes a lot further than the nerves of our 'lower' ends. I would love the same as a father to a son, but a very important part of that is a reminder to us all that both my own sons (who happen to seem to hate each other within the bounds of sibling rivalry) could never be together to accomplish what I achieved with their mother, in giving them life. That is what nmarriage was suppised to be about, and I sincerely hope that both my sons recognise the fact that they cannot get married to anyone unless they find a willing woman.

The final cut on a society that is already ruined is not the greatest achievement, in fact it reflects rather badly on the couple in the OP.

[jdinasia]

Sean ....

There is more than one member on this forum that is gay and has children. Marraige is not a requirement to have children. People marry every single day that CANNOT have children. Which makes your argument of marraige based upon procreation a simple lie.

edit -- typo

Edited February 16, 2010 by jdinasia

[PeaceBlondie]

I created nine fetuses heterosexually through heterosexual intercourse, and six were born alive, which I ended up raising single-handed. The only people who have out-created me made ten or more fetuses. Everybody else is a straight underachiever. They have no right to pass judgment of my sex life. And seeing that Thais don't even replace themselves any more, they have no right to criticize Thais about their adult sex life.

[SeanMoran]

Sean ....

There is more than one member on this forum hat is gay and has children. Marraige is not a requirement to have children. People marry every single day that CANNOT have children. Which makes your argument of marraige based upon procreation a simple lie.

Okay then. I'm out of this chat. O+O

[luluanator]

If one wants to have a straight marriage, then sobeit.

If one wants to have a gay marriage, then sobeit.

I TRULY think that people who have issues with gays/bis/transgenders are scared by their own bi/gay feelings. Why else are some people so visceral in their hatred of gays and their anti-gay attitudes? I am "straight" but have never felt that gays should be barred from marriage. Why don't I have a problem with gay marriage?

If you are one of those people who have a problem with gay marriage, please enlighten me to why you get so bent on the world being straight. And if you go with the Bible, I shall strike down upon thee an entire mountain of quotes and passages from the "good?" Book that I am sure you could never abide and live by.

[PeaceBlondie]

Actually, the only two verses that forbid male-male sex expressly bless Jewish males who put their penises inside the mouths and anuses of all their wives and sex-slaves. Those verses require the same-sex men to be put to death. Yet not one verse mentions the same-sex men being put to death. I bet they never put them to death. The Law of Moses is dead. No such law exists for Christians.

[jdinasia]

What the Bible says or doesn't say about gays is absolutely irrelevant in Thailand, but the book of Ruth and Second Kings has some nice reading!

The fact that Buddhism has nothing to say about homosexuality is a nice thing as well! It has a lot to say about sexual impropriety though!

But again ... marraige in Thailand is strictly a function of the state .. not of religion.

[luluanator]

But it's not their 'right' to demand whatever they think they are entitled to against the morality of religion and public opinion. Even California has changed it's mind on same sex marriage. They are not being discriminated against any more than i am by not having the 'right' to stay in Thailand on my own terms. Gays cannot marry in Thailand, probably never will, get over it.

I always wonder if those who use morality and religion to back up their arguments live clean, moral lives according to the same religious views that they use to judge other people's whom they harbour a prejudice against?

I wonder too. I mean, biblically, if you eat meat (kill by proxy), have screwed your neighbor's spouse or cheated, said "godamnit", worked on Saturday or Sunday, stolen, or even had cosmetic surgery ("make for yourself an idol" out of yourself- ok that may be stretching it) you might as well be gay by that argument. 555

I have a difficult time with the religion argument, especially when used by people who are not normally religious. It shows a real lack of guts and thought/reflection for taking such a strong stand. An accurate answer could be "I have bought so much into the straight patriarchal agenda that I am freaked out by own own feelings that might veer from the straight and narrow. So when I see people exercising their true feelings of love that are not supported by the hegemonic system, I experience cognitive dissonance and feel compelled to be and act anti-gay or anti-_____"

[elkangorito]

"I have bought so much into the straight patriarchal agenda that I am freaked out by own own feelings that might veer from the straight and narrow. So when I see people exercising their true feelings of love that are not supported by the hegemonic system, I experience cognitive dissonance and feel compelled to be and act anti-gay or anti-_____"

Here lies the answer...for a certain person who shall remain nameless

In any case, good luck to the lezzo's (& others) who have been downtrodden by pure bigotry & narrowmindedness. As for myself, I couldn't give 2 hoots about all this worthless marriage stuff. It's highly overrated & abused. I say "do it at your own risk". Much like swimming at a beach without lifesavers

[animatic]

.... still a very valuable question in this thread so I will rephrase it for the poster.

Where do some of these heterosexual people think that gay people come from?

Gay people have heterosexual parents (for the most part).

What would some of these reactionary people who have replied on this thread think if they had a child that grew up to be gay or lesbian? ...

And what makes them think that they haven't already,

but the child wouldn't think of being direct and honest with the parent

because of their obvious attitude issue?

Many families are broken up essentially BECAUSE of this parental or familial intransigence.

The kids take off to live their life as they need too,

AND PLAY ACT ON THE FEWER AND FEWER VISITS HOME.

REAL FAMILY VALUES AT WORK....

Sadly, I have met too many pretty much in this mold over the years.

Edited February 17, 2010 by animatic